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Subaru Baja

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Comments

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    could be due to stiffer springs, resulting in a higher payload?? We don't know that for sure since SOA decided not to list the cargo capacity on the '04 door jam sticker.

    It did list 4445 as the GVWR, IIRC. I know it was at least that much, and it may have been 4545. Wwxman, what's the GVWR of your '03 model? If it's less than that, then I think we can safely assume there's a little more payload capacity to the '04 model.

    As to market appeal, I'm with juice. Subaru needed to improve the vehicle in a number ways, not just marketing:*

    Styling
    The new color scheme addressed that in an inexpensive way. To really address it in a more through way requires extensive body revisions. That won't happen before the next-generation model arrives. So this was a good compromise, given the circumstances, IMO.

    Content
    They're added some nice features, at least with the turbo; such as heated seats, and VTD/SportShift with the turbo auto. Both of these items help a lot IMO, to make the car more appealing. Base models don't get these, I guess to keep the price down.

    Capability (payload/towing)
    I don't think this will change significantly until the next generation model. Even then it may not change much.

    Appeal to a wider audience
    The turbo does that. If you don't want a turbo, buy the non-turbo. They're both there to address different customers.

    Value
    Don't yet know what the sticker will be, but SOA is very sensitive to this issue, based on how they've contented/priced other Subies—especially the WRX.

    * = For what it's worth, I've been involved with marketing for over 30 years. Marketing is very important, but it won't make up for an inferior product. Marketing can get people into the showroom, but it won't (necessarily) make people buy the product. If they do buy the product, they may not be happy with it, and won't return for repeat business.

    Bob
  • wwxmanwwxman Member Posts: 32
    is the original was basically fine -- except for the obvious: bad color scheme (except silver); no lockable bed cover; limited utility with no true avalanche type pass through. Some of these issues will be addressed now it seems. As for what the subie fans are chirping about -- the turbo and higher ground clearance, these would not have made the Baja a significantly bigger hit out of the starting gate IMO. The reason the Baja will sell better now is better colors, better marketing and, perhaps, the buzz created by the turbo. In short, to Joe Public, its essentially the same vehicle -- most will not spring for the turbo and have little idea what ground clearance is (let alone, that the new model has 1.1" more).
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    the turbo and higher ground clearance, these would not have made the Baja a significantly bigger hit out of the starting gate IMO.

    I couldn't disagree more.

    The Impreza TS and RS are also "basically fine," yet don't sell worth a darn. The (turbo) WRX sells in bunches. Same will happen with the Baja turbo, mark my word. The automotive world is littered with "basically fine" vehicles that also don't sell. I will agree with you that the "buzz" created by the turbo will rub off on non-turbo Bajas. For that reason alone, the turbo version should be welcomed.

    Wxxman, it's great that you like the Baja pretty much as is. Many of us don't; and for us, the Baja turbo may be the better choice.

    Bob
  • wwxmanwwxman Member Posts: 32
    The good old legacy AND outback lines far outsell the impreza line. The WRX impreza accounts for roughly 60% of impreza sales -- I wouldn't say the non-turbos don't sell a darn. Put in perpective, the WRX accounts for 22,000 of 180,000 subies sold. Frankly, I also think the Baja is more suited to the outback crowd anyway. Don't get me wrong, I think a turbo option is fine. I tend to think the extra ground clearance is almost irrelevant. What I am saying is that the masses who must buy the car (not folks like those on subie bds.) will mostly not buy the turbo (unless there's almost no difference in price) and couldn't pick out the higher ground clearance to save their lives. Why then will these changes make all the difference. I say it will be better marketing.
  • wwxmanwwxman Member Posts: 32
    That will help too.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I have some pics from the show that shows about 1000lbs of live-load in the back of the baja and the rear only came down to just above the wheel-mark. Very impressive.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You'd be surprised at how significant the slight lift is. Go see one first. Early on when we saw the lift kit from iSR Subaru, everyone liked it. I think it'll sway a few opinions at the very minimum.

    Did anyone peek under there to see if a full-size spare was fitted? Just curious.

    Legacy sold poorly until the L/SE arrived. Outback far outsells it (2 to 1) mostly due to image, marketing, and the taller suspension. Baja just improved 2 of those 3!

    Use Lance Armstrong wisely, and they've got all 3.

    WRX is 60% of Impreza sales, I bet the Outback Sport is the other 40%, LOL! They sold about 3 TS wagons last year, maybe a handful of RSs. I bet the numbers aren't significant.

    So again, the two that sell are the lifted model (OBS) and the sporty one (WRX). Again, the 2004 Baja addresses both of those issues.

    I'm not saying it'll be Subaru's Element, which is selling at a brisk pace right now, but it'll sell maybe 2k units per month and more importantly, survive until the next generation.

    paisan: thanks for doin' the real-world test! Now it can be used to trailer the prom king and queen at the high school float parade. :-)

    -juice
  • wwxmanwwxman Member Posts: 32
    would be hardly noticable without a direct side-by-by-side viewing. 1.1" is not that much. The "beefier" impression could be caused by many factors. Just remember, added height causes performance deficts on paved roads and increases rollover propensity. If Subie takes a hit in the rollover testing (the outback wasn't that great at 7.3"), I think this will go down as another blunder. In fact, the 2004 WRX had its ground clearance reduced by 1/2".
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, but a WRX appeals to an audience that would otherwise lower it anyway. Baja owners are far more likely to lift it.

    I'm not saying there aren't trade-offs, of course there are. I still think it's worth it, and I doubt it will end up a blunder. I bet NHTSA gives it 3 stars. Only a couple of vehicles get 4.

    -juice
  • purduealum91purduealum91 Member Posts: 285
    Gang

    Is it me or is Subaru someking some wacky tobacco. $25k for a forester is tooo much in my opinion. They need to get their prices more in-line with other manuf. I have nothing against Subarus, but I do not like what I see when it comes to their prices.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Show me something comparable for the $. Not to mention you are comparing MSRP to MSRP, the actual retail price of a Forester is less.

    What about a 40K+ version of the Contour, that is touted as a jag? :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    $25k is a low price nowadays, even if Subaru did charge that. I think the average transaction, per NADA, is above $24 grand, and the average car doesn't have AWD or 235 lb-ft of torque.

    Go price a Liberty - they hit $28k easily when well equipped. And the Forester will run circles around one.

    Escape and CR-V cost less but don't have half the features/content. In fact, the Forester leads the class in terms of content. Who else gives you a moonroof that big? Or heated seats/mirrors plus front and rear windshield de-icers?

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The Tribute/Escape have part-time 4wd, not full-time.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Foresters with MSRPs in the $28k price range currently carry about a $3 grand discount on their street prices.

    Imagine a turbo for $22 grand, maybe a tad more, suddendly sounds like a bargain, no?

    Even an auto Premium with leather ought to run about $28k, with a street price of $25k or so.

    -juice
  • purduealum91purduealum91 Member Posts: 285
    I need to get a better job. Paying that much for a Forester seems sick to me. The 03 WRXs are priced at $21 even. That is acceptable. Looks like my Golf TDI at $16k was a bargain. Liberty sport can be had for $17k here.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I doubt it, unless it was a bare-bones 2WD. Here's the Liberty page(s) from FitzMall, which are some of the best price anywhere, and none of them are anywhere near $17K. $19,654 is the cheapest one I found, and most are well above this figure, even Sport models.

    http://www.fitzmall.com/carfind/resultsa.asp?mode=NEW&lstMake- - =JEEP|LIBERTY

    Sounds to me like you're thinking in terms of 1996-like prices, or even earlier. Welcome to 2003.

    Bob
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Looking forward to it!

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Thomas: then don't (pay that much for a Forester). The X model will still be available. I've seen some for around $18.7k, freight included! I has everything one could argue they "need", the rest are frills.

    Price a Liberty with 4WD, then add the V6, which is still slower than Subaru's 2.5l BTW. Now add ABS, cruise, keyless, power this and that, and you're at $20k I bet. And you're equipment is equivalent to the X model.

    The Sports don't come that well equipped, if you analyze it closely.

    -juice
  • diverup1diverup1 Member Posts: 3
    Does anyone know if there are plans for a fiberglass bed cap. I think it woul be a nice alternative to the locking lid.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    in the Baja turbo teaser brochure, that I picked up at the NY show, that the hard cargo lid SNUGLID is mentioned. Not only is it mentioned, but it is featured on the cover photo, as well as the large inside photo too.

    The way it's worded, however, suggests that it may(?) be considered a 3rd-party option, and not an official SOA option. Still, I think it is significant that it is mentioned in the Baja turbo teaser brochure. That at least lends a "stamp of SOA approval" of some sort...

    http://www.snugtop.com/wn_02snuglid_subaru.htm

    Bob
  • purduealum91purduealum91 Member Posts: 285
    A locald ealer has trhe new Baja S for $19,800. The original Baja for $20,600. Duh, which one to choose? :)
    What happened to the $18-18,500 prices for the Baja S?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Sport is a new model and the incentives may not apply for it. Eventually, they will, you just have to be patient. You want to have the first Sport on the block? The discount from MSRP is much smaller than the leather clad model.

    Keep in mind some people prefer cloth. I wish I had cloth on my Miata, for instance, and yes I'd be willing to trade for a tan colored cloth set in decent condition.

    -juice
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    Juice, have you checked Ebay?

    I've been shopping for buckets and a console/armrest to replace the split bench in my Tacoma. Haven't found the perfect set yet but quite a few seem to come & go at pretty reasonable prices. The same may be true for Miata seats.

    -james
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No, but that's an interesting thought. Guess it hasn't been bothering me, but then again it's only starting to get hot now. In mid-summer the seats get sticky-hot, it's nasty.

    At least the Baja's are perforated.

    -juice
  • jay_24jay_24 Member Posts: 536
    Ok its not fair but I found this to be interesting.

    As some have noted here the Baja has a light payload of just over 1000 lbs. Well the big brute Avalanche has only just over 1200 lbs payload.

    --jay
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Payload is 800 lbs. IIRC, less than any other Subaru.

    DaveM
  • jay_24jay_24 Member Posts: 536
    Could be 800, Edmunds said 1000 and I couldn't find it on Subaru's page.

    Even so 1200 for a full size Avalanche is poor.

    --jay
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The Baja's payload is 800 pounds, at least for MY '03. The '04 Baja has a 1.1" increase in ground clearance. I'm hoping(!) that's dues to stiffer springs, which will result in a bit more payload capacity; but don't know for sure yet.

    And yes, the Avalanche 1500 also has a lousy payload considering its size. The Avalanche 2500 more than likely has a payload of ~ 2000 pounds or more, however.

    However, considering it's mission in life 1200 pounds is probably OK. I wish the Baja's payload was ~ 1000 – 1100 pounds, which is in the neighborhood of the Explorer Sport Trac. I think that's possible and realistic, but it may have to wait until the next-generation Baja debuts.

    Speaking of lousy payloads, did you know Ford's huge 4x4 Excursion only has a payload of around 1600–1700 pounds? You can thank its enormous curb weight for that. A comparable Chevy Suburban 2500 has a payload of roughly a 1000 pounds more!

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Went to the Subie dealer yesterday to drive one, but at 9pm they were about to close.

    And get this - they only had ONE left in stock, a yellow one on the showroom floor! The incentives and that web coupon for $500 off appeared to have worked, they sold out! Wow. I'd love to see April sales figures.

    I told the sales guy I'd seen on in NY, that the small lift made it look beefier and the colors were better. He seemed excited about it. They are no longer sitting on the lots, and even small improvements ought to help.

    He didn't know when the turbo would come, funny he actually asked me what they said at the NY show.

    He told me the Sports sell for about $1000 less than the regular models on average.

    Bummer I didn't get to drive one, but the news is encouraging.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    How much larger we'll be able to go with tires on the new Baja?

    Hopefully that rear lift also made room for some beefier tires, which could give you a further lift.

    -mike
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good point, Mike. I bet there is some room for more tire. Wonder if a full size spare would squeeze in, too.

    -juice
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Silly question as I forgot to look at the autoshow, but where does the spare go on the Baja. I don't recall seeing anything underneath, and it looked like there was no "hatch" to access from the bed.

    Mark
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's under the cargo bed, but it's a donut.

    -juice
  • ningabeningabe Member Posts: 12
    I am about to become a first time Subaru owner.
    I should be taking delivery of a Yellow Baja next week. From the reading I've done most people don't like the cladding & yellow, but that is what first attracted me to it on TV and the internet. What are other peoples experiences?

    I'm getting rid of a '97 Rav4 which I've never had 1 day of trouble with so I hope the change will be a good one. Any fun stories or experiences while I wait?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It is a brochure color, meant to attract attention. Guess it worked! :-)

    Sales were down a little in April after a really hot March, they were under 1000.

    CR just reviewed the Baja, in the current issue. Check it out.

    -juice
  • baja7baja7 Member Posts: 14
    I, too, waiting for a yellow Baja-Turbo I hope.

    I agree with Juice, the yellow is a photo-opt color, it looks different in person, more orange.

    Any info on new colors and price for 2004?

    Bill
  • ningabeningabe Member Posts: 12
    Yep, worked on me. Have always wanted a yellow vehicle. And I think the Baja is the best looking one I've seen. Pick it up on Weds. Patience.....
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    At the NY show they had a black and a gray, both looked nice, both subtle two-tones. I prefer those over the current colors.

    Hey, CR just rated it pretty highly, above the CR-V overall.

    -juice
  • ningabeningabe Member Posts: 12
    It just seems like every other car out there is silver.

    Glad to see the high rating with CR. What did they say about it? Are there any known issues with the Baja I should be looking for?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    just don't expect real truck capabilities. As long as you understand and accept that, I'm sure you'll be very happy.

    Bob
  • ningabeningabe Member Posts: 12
    Thanks...no real need for heavy hauling, just me and my bird dog.
    I'm looking forward to a smoother ride than my RAV, although I think I'll have to get used to sitting lower with less head room.
    I'm also excited about how the back seat fips up so my dog can be on the floor instead of up on the seats.
    Does that seat stay up on its own without the backs being folded down or would I need to secure it so it doesn't fall back down?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It latches into place.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    monotone yellow lifted Baja!

    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36- 1995

    BTW, I saw my first Baja with the factory soft tonneau cover today on a dealer lot. I wasn't impressed. It looks like a real pain in the [non-permissible content removed] to use.

    Bob
  • ningabeningabe Member Posts: 12
    Cool Pics

    I just picked up a yellow Baja yesterday with a soft cover installed. I like the looks(the black with yellow) and really is not that hard to use but I'm not sure it is going to hold up very well to much use.

    If anyone else has one, how do you use the cross bar under the cover?
    Does anyone like the hard cover better?

    Love my underpowered,overcladded,useless bed, overpriced and screaming yellow BAJA:))

    Jeff
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Love my underpowered,overcladded,useless bed, overpriced and screaming yellow BAJA:))

    Atta boy Jeff!!!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Lose the stripes, but I love the lift they gave it. 3" they say.

    Saw a red one on MacArthur Blvd today, only my 2nd Baja sighting (outside of dealer cars on test drives).

    -juice
  • ningabeningabe Member Posts: 12
    Any other Baja owners out there???

    Is it reasonabe to change the oil after
    the first 1000 miles or is waiting til
    3-4000 okay?

    Jeff
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    You could change it for peace of mind, but it is not necessary at 1k. Will you be going to synthetic?

    You should join us in the Subaru Crew -> http://townhall.edmunds.com/cgi-bin/townhall.subaru

    -Brian
  • ningabeningabe Member Posts: 12
    Not sure, what are the advantages of synthetic?
    My nearest Sub dealer is over an hour away so
    I might have to find a local garage.

    With my old car I just quick changed it every
    3000 miles or so.
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