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1967 Grand Prix convertible - opinions sought
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Comments
1967 Grand Prix http://classicalpontiac.com/articles/99poci/c5.html
1967 Catalina http://www.cars-on-line.com/67cat2418.html
BTW both cars are four speeds. That's one of the neat things about old Pontiacs. How many four speed full size Buicks and Olds are there? Or even Impala SSs? The correct engine for the '67 Catalina would be a 400 or 428--the 421's last year was '66.
Andre, does the GP's grille remind you of the '69-70 fuselage Chrysler (without the beak)?
No, no AC with the Super Duty, just like no AC with the Ramchargers or Thunderbolts. But the Pontiac did come standard with its frame drilled with lightening holes.
I never was too crazy about the fuselage-styled Mopars, but the Chrysler models with the hidden headlights weren't too bad. I'd never swap my '67 for one, though!
I started out wanting a GTO, prices were in the atmosphere. Then I nearly bought a Canadian Pontiac before the Galaxie, but the price and it's relatively oddity made me hesitate. Pontiac's are my favorite GM's from the 60's, they were just a little more than I wanted to spend on my first "classic" car. My first car was a 69 Catalina, so maybe a little nostalga was in play as well.
Also liked the Imperial and 300 convertibles from that time frame, but they were too long to fit in my middle-class garage. An Imperial is nearly indestructible, built to high standards, and not too expensive today if a land yacht is appealing. They might be too big, to tell the truth. Odd how a Dart convertible sometimes goes for more.
It is a great hobby, and I enjoy my old car more than the Miata I had. Something about being able to take a group of friends with you appeals to me (though we will all be sweating, as discussed previously). That, and a 60's cruiser translates well to the traffic patterns of today.
Speedshift, are you sure about the 64 Catalina 2+2 engine? I would have been willing to bet that all of those had the 421 in them.
But, I sure could be wrong.
One of the websites I remember checking out was www.pontiacserver.com, which has tons of stuff on it.
Oh yeah, if anyone's interested, I finally posted a few pics of my '67 Catalina online. http://briefcase.yahoo.com/andre_1969 . There's a few folders in there...one for my DeSoto, one for the NY'er, and one for the Catalina. Just don't laugh to hard at the dorky looking 20 year-old standing beside the '57 DeSoto with the two old folks ;-)
No wedding requests yet, but I would use it for mine, if that ever happens.
http://www.pontiacserver.com/
There was also a Bonneville test, with a 325-horse 389. 10.5:1 compression ratio, 4-bbl carb. I'm actually surprised that the 421 doesn't have more hp, though. If they can get 325 hp from a 389-4bbl with 10.5:1 compression, shouldn't a 421-4bbl with the same compression ratio do better than 338? However, the 421 had about 30 ft-lb more of torque (459 versus 429) so I'm sure that helped a lot.
BTW, if anybody wants to see these tests, there isn't a direct URL link. But if you go to www.pontiacserver.com, click on "classic road tests" on the LH side, and then there are a few cars highlighted under "1965 Motortrend Car of the Year"
Sorry. Here it is.
http://www.carcollector.com/cover_detail.cfm?StoryID=1624
Obviously, the GP is not in the same league as these more popular models so any books that are on the market would be few in number. I suspect a generic book on Pontiacs is about as specific as it gets. But, I thought you folks might have some ideas.
Thanks.
Only thing I can think of is try a really big book store like Borders, or maybe go online to Amazon.com or something, search for "Pontiac" or "Grand Prix" and see what happens.
However, I've found plenty of classified ads offering '67 GP convertibles for sale (of course, most are not what you'd call in great shape). In any event, they don't seem as rare as their production figure would indicate. Anybody else find this a strange phenomenon?
I would think this would be a decent time to be buying - cars are sitting in garages during the winter, and the economy is to the point where those that lost their jobs now are struggling to pay Christmas bills.
I like the mid 60's Continental convertibles, they seem to be holding their value.
Bet you'd really get your money's worth on a cost per sqft basis. Anyone requiring more space after looking at one of these should call a real estate agent!
However, I read a recent article on these cars where the convertible top mechanism was notorious for having problems. Still, if you use good quality parts installed by someone who knows what they're doing, its probably no more problematic than any other full-size convertible.
I wonder if a lot of people look at the '67 big Pontiacs in general as the last of the really hip, swingin' ones? I seem to see '67's all the time at car shows, but '68's seem pretty rare. Same with '69's. To me, '70 is where they really lost it, and traded that sporty image for the neo-classic "personal luxury" look that would ultimately do the big Pontiacs in as the '70's wore on. But '68 seemed to be a definite downturn.
My auto encyclopedia doesn't break out individual production figures of the big Chevies, but the '67 GP 'vert did sell more than any individual full-sized Oldsmobile model. IIRC, Olds had 3 models...two '88's (a Delta and a Delmont?) and the 98. Each one was around 3-4000 units that year. Didn't check the Buick figures for that year, though.
LeSabre Custom (2913)
Wildcat (2276)
Wildcat Custom (2913--I am suspicious of this number because it's listed as the same as LeSabre Custom above)
Electra 225 Custom (6941)
Kinda strange that Buicks most expensive convertible was their best-selling, that wasn't usually the case for other makes.
I'm of the opinion that full-size '67 Buicks and Olds were generally better looking than their '66 counterparts, while the opposite is true for Pontiac (sorry, Andre). I do think the 67 Pontiacs are better looking than the 68s. Those '68 taillights, and the introduction of the Edsel-like front end treatment, didn't do those cars any justice.
As for GP versus other '67 Pontiac convertibles, I think the GP is a bit more interesting, but if I were in the market, I'd probably be just as happy with a Catalina or Bonneville, given the likely price difference especially.
Something about the '67 Olds just bothers me though. The '66'es had a nice, trim look about them, and almost looked like mid-size cars if you gave them a quick enough glance. The '67 makes me think of a Mercury, for some reason! The body itself is not bad; I like the way it's rounded off, but I just don't care for the front-end. I think the Olds style from '68-70 was pretty nice, though. As for Buick, I really didn't care for them as much after '66, either. They're not bad, but just don't do a whole lot for me.
It's interesting that '66 GM cars in general (especially Olds and Chevies) were kinda boxy, which helped them look a bit smaller. When they went the full-'fluid' route in '67, they definitely looked bigger (if they're not actually). I just saw a '66 Impala sedan, it didn't look absurdly big.
Rarety has little to do with it. I love it when someone stands next to their '63 Buick Special station wagon beaming because they only made 350 of them. Well...it's nice they love their car, but since it was a car few people wanted when new, it'll appeal to very few folks today.
I wonder what's going to happen when the cars of today become antiques. With the domestics in particular, the reason most of them sell so well is because of incentives, fleet dumping, etc. Back in 1957, if Ford was #1, you could safely say it was #1 because it's what people wanted at the time. But today, if the Ford Taurus is #1 (well more like #3, actually), it's not because people love the car! It's because it's cheap enough for a lot of people to afford, and because of all those rental fleets!
I think the big 60s convertibles will get more and more valuable as time goes on, so now would be a good timet to buy one, especially GM and Ford.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=602126298
Or, for the handy man, a fixer-upper.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=602109547
Kinda interesting too, to see just how quick the Pontiacs bloated up. I mean, at a quick glance, the '66 in that pic almost looks like an intermediate, but that '69 is a battlecruiser!
Oh crap, I see it's just in Pennsylvania, too! Just a 2-hour drive from me! Must....resist....temptation!
-Jason
Regarding condos, I used to manage them so I've seen the dark underside of condo living. If you're a collector there's no place to put your collection. If you're not a collector you don't always enjoy seeing someone's collection sitting around biodegrading. All of this is less of a problem in a single-family neighborhood, and no problem at all in the country. Unfortunately, condos are all that most gearheads can afford, especially if they're rescueing money pits from storage lots ;-). Resist...Andre...resist.
The whole car looked pretty un-original and I'll bet it's a roach...Nope, I'll pass!
You could also use it for the trip to Home Depot.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=602127472
If I owned it I'd install a luggage rack and trailer hitch just to disprove the old joke about hearses. Maybe some vacation stickers too.