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CR-V vs Escape

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Comments

  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    See, now you bring up recalls as poor reliability. Recalls for the Escape are past history. If you want to bring past history into the mix, then the CRV recalls have affected more units than all of the Escape recalls combined.

    CRV recall #02v120000
    Consequence Summary:
    WORN CONTACTS COULD CAUSE THE ENGINE TO STALL WITHOUT WARNING, INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH.
    (affected all CRV's through 1999, 100000 vehicles affected?)

    Another CRV recall #99V282000
    Consequence Summary:
    A SUDDEN, UNEXPECTED LOSS OF LIGHTING OR A FAILURE OF THE WINDSHIELD WIPERS IN BAD WEATHER, COULD BE HAZARDOUS INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH.
    Affected units 100891.

    So it looks like there are more CRV's with problems on the road (requiring recalls) than Escapes.
  • daveghhdaveghh Member Posts: 495
    Bess, first of all I only brought up recalls because the article Baggs linked mentioned recalls. And I thought my link was a good compliment to the site he linked.

    In any case you know as well I as I do that the CRV is a more reliable vehicle. Like I said before show me ONE report that says the contrary. Or you can show me ONE artical that sites that Ford's are more reliable then Honda. I am only asking for ONE! I can give you countless articles which support my arguement that Honda's and CRV's are more reliable then Ford's and Escapes.

    Recalls are normal because their are always things that cannot be predicited. There was not one reported incident of any crashes or anything resulting from the CRV recalls. The dealers noticed a wear on the harness, which a plastic covering over a bunch of wires. They reported it, once a few dealers reported the recall was made. Good for Honda. I can refute numbers about the Escape such as the following recalls....
    -SPEED CONTROL CABLE MAY CAUSE THROTTLE TO STICK
    -2WD MODELS MAY HAVE BEEN BUILT WITH 4WD REAR
    HUBS
    -DAMAGED FUEL LINE MAY CAUSE ODOR OR FUEL LEAK
    -WINDSHIELD WIPER LINKAGE MAY DISENGAGE

    First three sound pretty serious to me.
  • hondaman01hondaman01 Member Posts: 163
    Honda uses the phrase "MAY CAUSE" whereas Ford uses "WILL CAUSE" or " HAS CAUSED" I think there is a difference as Honda may only be doing this as a safety issue and not as a defect.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I think that is just Honda playing with semantics. I still like 'em, though.
  • muckyduckmuckyduck Member Posts: 219
    I visited the Escape/Tribute problems board yesterday - haven't had time to read as many boards as I've wanted. Gee, still see people reporting stalling problems with the new Escapes! What gives - is Ford going to fix this or what?
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    davegh,
    -DAMAGED FUEL LINE MAY CAUSE ODOR OR FUEL LEAK
    Units affected were built from 10/1999 - 09/2000 totalling 10,850.

    -SPEED CONTROL CABLE MAY CAUSE THROTTLE TO STICK
    Units affected were built from 01/2000 - 07/2000 totalling 1193 units.

    -WINDSHIELD WIPER LINKAGE MAY DISENGAGE
    Units affected were built from 10/1999 - 11/2000 totalling 46000

    -2WD MODELS MAY HAVE BEEN BUILT WITH 4WD REAR
    HUBS
    Units affected were built from 10/1999 - 8/2000 totalling 1325.

    and you missed one:
    VEHICLES MAY HAVE A MIS-ASSEMBLED OR INCORRECTLY MANUFACTURED NUT THAT ATTACHES THE STEERING WHEEL ASSEMBLY TO THE STEERING COLUMN
    Units affected were built from 4/2000 - 7/2000 totalling 1393. I remember reading about this one. None of these left the lot before being fixed. I believe the hub one was the same way and I'm not sure about the others. Big yellow stickers were placed on the steering wheels to warn the dealers of the problems and not to drive the vehicle.

    My point is, they were all caught and fixed very fast. No recalls have been issued since, and like the CR-V, no reports of crashes or injuries have been reported.

    Should there have been so many recalls? No.
    Should anyone worry about them any more? Again, no.
    Should anyone worry that more may be issued? Not as much as they are. It's been nearly two years since the last one.

    "In any case you know as well I as I do that the CRV is a more reliable vehicle."

    (Note: I'm going to try a different angle here)
    I hope the 2002 CR-V is rated more reliable than the Escape. Considering it's only been on sale for about a year now, and that the Escape has five recalls factored into its ratings. If it were rated lower than the Escape, I'd have to question whether any of them even start at all.

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the reliability ratings will start to even out after a few years (which is when we should really start to take them into consideration). The Escape will always be rated lower because of it's recalls and slightly higher number of lesser known problems.

    "I can give you countless articles which support my argument that Honda's and CRV's are more reliable then Ford's and Escapes"

    Remember that FoMoCo and HoMoCo both have their share of winners and losers. Percentage-wise they have to be pretty close to equal, mostly because Honda does not have a long list of models. I wouldn't really put the Escape in with the losers either. In conversations with real live Ford techs, on another forum that was started and is run by those same techs, they have stated that they don't see too many Escapes for anything other than regular scheduled maintenance. They can't be all that bad if the people who fix them don't see them too often.

    varmint,
    Refresh my memory, how do these publications come up with their reliability ratings? Do they 1. go by number of problems per vehicle sold, or 2. do they just go by total number of problems reported. Also, do they survey owners from all years of the current model or just the current year of the current model?

    Again, understand that I am not trying to disprove any reliability ratings that Honda scores higher on. Everyone knows and believes that Honda's are traditionally more reliable that most other makes in the U.S. market and there is no reason to believe that that trend won't continue into the near future. I am just questioning the methods used to come up with these unusually wide gaps between the Honda numbers and the numbers of other makes with competing models. The CR-V and the Escape just happen to fit that mold to a "T". Remember, we all thought Arthur Andersen was honest and respectable at one time too.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    muckyduck,
    You'll also notice that most people who have reported that problem are no longer with us. They vented, found the answer, and are now happily on their way.

    After having the TSB performed on our Escape, I calculated close to 24 mpg during a 310 mile trip from Lusby, MD to Pittsburgh. The A/C and cruise were on the whole way, and you'll note that that route takes you through the Appalachian and Allegheny mountain ranges. You'll also note that the Escape's EPA rating is 23 for highway driving.

    So not only does it look like they fixed the stalling problem, it looks like they threw a few more improvements in as a bonus.
  • muckyduckmuckyduck Member Posts: 219
    Glad to hear that owners are getting their stalling problem fixed. I guess the salesman was correct - when getting a Mustang for my daughter, I looked at the Escape (very new then) and the salesman told me honestly not to even consider getting an Escape for 2 years - they had a lot of problems and it would take that long for Ford to work on them. Not that I would buy one now - very happy with my CR-V. IMO, I think the Liberty is the best looking of all the small SUVs, but the ride/comfort/reliability/room of the CR-V won.
    BTW, the Mustang has been good except for the passenger seat belt - needs to be replaced.

    I can say something good about Ford.

    (ewwwwwwwwwwww, stop that, stop twisting my arm!)
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Baggs - As I understand it, the CR survey asks for serious problems only. The results for that vehicle are applied to that model. So if I have a problem with my '99 CR-V, that "hit" is recorded for the '99 model year. My information would not be counted for the 2002 model, even though it was collected in 2002. When next year's survey comes out, it will include only information for the current model year.

    The number of problems is compared with the number of surveys that are returned. The number of units sold is not factored in (since we cannot get a survey from every owner).
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    varmint,
    That's what I thought. I'd still like to see how many surveys they sent out and actually received back for each vehicle. I can't find it anywhere though.

    muckyduck,
    Now I know why those pigs were flying outside my office window!
  • bmorisettebmorisette Member Posts: 21
    I apologize if I'm re-hashing this because I haven't ready that far back into the thread, but I just checked the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety website, and the 2002 Ford Escape was given an overall rating of Marginal while the 2002 Honda CR-V was given an overall rating of Good. Their scale goes: Good, Acceptable, Marginal, and Poor. I don't own either vehicle and my wife and I share a car. Although we are a year away from getting a new one we have decided on a mini-suv and those test results pretty much seal it for me. We'll be buying a Honda CR-V.


    Ford Crash Results:

    http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0105.htm#4


    Honda Crash Results:

    http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0213.htm

  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Baggs - So would I. I know that it's at least 100, and likely to be many more, but CR doesn't publish the exact number.

    Bmorisette - You'll be happy with the NHTSA full front and side impacts, as well. In all fairness, both vehicles score well on those tests.
  • daveghhdaveghh Member Posts: 495
    baggs, there are not too many Escapes affected by the recalls, that is a good thing.

    I will give Ford credit where it deserves, they really have come a long way since the 80's and early 90's.

    I was reading the "Economist" today and they mentioned that Fords today are where Honda's and Toyota's were in the mid 80's in terms of reliability! Wow, that sounds horrible! The thing is, Honda's have 10 problems for every 100 vehicles and Ford's have 23 problems for every 100 vehicles. They are down from 130 something vehicles per 100 in the mid 80's! Nice work Ford. Despite their improvement I think Fords have to work on two things....

    1. First and second year vehicle releases should have better track records as far as reliability goes.
    2. They need to find a way to keep their profits up while they take the time and effort in making Fords more reliable.

    Other then that Ford is doing pretty well. In addition I would by a Ford before a GM or Dodge product.
  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    "1. First and second year vehicle releases should have better track records as far as reliability goes."

    In most cases the American car manufacturers will NEVER have U.S. launches that are as clean and as trouble-free and the Japanese car launches are in the US. They won't be as trouble-free as the European cars that launch here either. There's a very simple reason why, when you think about it.

    The reason why foreign cars seem more reliable initially, and not as trouble free, is they have a head start in most cases. They're usually released in their manufacturer's home country FIRST, and THEN brought to the U.S., thereby giving them time to work out troubles. The U.S. market never sees the REAL first-year of the car, and so for their purposes, it doesn't exist.
  • hondaman01hondaman01 Member Posts: 163
    This will help the argument! Consumers speak. Don't see a Ford anywhere. CRV wins again with the population. With all of these links coming up, one must conclude that evidence is mounting.


    http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/020718-2.htm

  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Good point npaladin. I'm guessing that the Odyssey is one that made it's debut in the U.S.. I don't imagine there is a great demand for minivans in the Far East.


    davegh,

    You're right, all domestic manufacturers do need to clean up their acts as far as new model launches go. Especially if the Japanese brands are getting a bit of a head start. I think they are trying to hurry things along too much these days. The Escape is a pretty good example of that. I'm still blaming Jacques for the recent ball droppings though. He did know how to turn a profit though. Before the Firestone thing, Ford was poised to take the #1 spot from GM. In fact, they were making so much money in 1999, employee bonuses averaged $8000 per person. Here's the link for that:

    http://detnews.com/2000/autos/0001/29/01280128.htm


    It's pretty amazing how much they stumbled in a couple of years time. I don't even think the employees received bonuses last year.


    hondaman,

    They also picked an Oldsmobile which won't exist much longer and the BMW X5 (10+ recalls in two years). That's some good company to be in for sure.

  • corynatcorynat Member Posts: 52
    I had a 2000 CR-V SE that I traded in for a 2002 Midnight Escape. I can give you my feelings on the comparison between the two, although I cannot speak to the 2002 CR-V.

    The Escape is more fun to drive. No contest. The CR-V was very easy to drive, but the extra power in the Escape makes a larger difference than I would have guessed. Mostly in the pulling into traffic and passing on the highway situations.

    Honda was more refined. Escape is more trucky.

    Interior parts used are about even although the leather in the Escape is better. I like the stereo on the Escape better, but only because it came with an MP3 player. Honda may have had s little more padding on doors, armrest, etc. Little less plastic.

    Felt more confident that the Honda would not give me any trouble. Some trepidation about the trade in, but I hope to be proven wrong. Only had 3 problems in 35,000 miles with the Honda. Ripped seat belt, leather seat cracked, and sunroof (after market by dealer) trim came loose and rattled). So far, none on the Escape, but only have 3000 miles.

    More bang for the buck with features and the Ford, but will probably lose that upon trade-in.

    AC is better on the Escape.

    Gas mileage goes to the Honda (24 vs. 21 so far)

    Road noise, surprisingly, is less in the Ford. Did not expect that. Might be the tires.

    Honda may have been safer, but I have side air bags in the Escape and did not in the Honda, so who knows. There you have it. I am pretty neutral in the issue. I think they are both great cars. Would have kept driving the Honda but got such a good deal on the Escape and loved the Midnight trim that I could not resist.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Npaladin - That was true of the last gen CR-V. The 2002 model was released in the NA market about one month after the JDM. That's barely enough time to find an issue, nevermind correct it.

    If I recall correctly, Ford had the Focus in Europe for a while before bringing it over here. Yet, we still see plenty of quality issues with that one.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    varmint,
    I think upon bringing it (Focus) over here it was completely redesigned before being released. The Contour was the same way. They had to "Americanize" them first. The European version of the Contour (Mondeo) is constantly receiving rewards and accolades and I have no idea why they don't bring it over here like it is. The Contour wasn't that bad of a car though. I test drove a couple of them before I bought the ZX2. It all came down to price, and we already had a Civic in the garage.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    since I have been gone... anyhoo.. didn't read all 100.. Vacation was great! We took the Accord rather than the Escape for MPG reasons.. Accord did well.. averaged 38MPG at an average speed of 75MPH with a/c on.. Accord was weak on the hills with a full load, much like the CRV.. The V6 in the Escape is a huge advantage when traversing hills.
    While in California I took a non-scientific poll on what small SUV was the most popular while driving around. The RAV4 seems to be the choice. Did see a fair share of Escapes and CRV's.. about even. Saw my first "Midnight" Escape in our hotel parking lot and strolled over to take a peek. Wow what a looker! I have a feeling all Escapes are eventually going to be one color schemes.
    bmoristte - obviously you didn't read my posts on the rear end crashtests results from the IIHS. The CRV costs $$$ to repair and scored terribly.. Along with the Escape has better braking than the CRV.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Scape - I think Bmorisette was concerned with safety, not repair costs.
  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    You know, I don't care HOW safe I am if I can't afford to repair the vehicle later...if I'm not injured, how can I sue for money? Don't want the insurance to repair it...even if the accident isn't your fault, your rates go up anyway just from being the recipient of an accident.

    Ideally you want a balance of both physical safety and a smaller expense of repair. Go one extreme, and you're dead. Go the other extreme and you've got a totaled car, and can't afford the loan or the insurance to buy another one, in which case, you may as well BE dead. ;)
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    will make your insurance rates go up for the CRV. In the 5MPH bumper test the rear tire is a huge problem on the CRV. We back our vehicles up everyday in many places. 5MPH is not fast by anymeans and the cost to repair in comparison to the Escape is almost 3x as much! We all know the insurance companies are not going to take a loss and you will end up either paying it in higher premiums.
    Crashtests - The IIHS did a test with the Escape and it ranks an overall marginal in ONLY the offset category. However, if you actually read the entire report you will see in the category of left leg injury - poor you will see a statement from the IIHS that data was lost! yet they still rated the Escape as poor and when comparing data with Mazda/Ford they concluded it was actually good?? yet they did not change their rating in this category??
    Anyhoo.. trying to paint the Escape as a deathtrap isn't going to work for those who actually read the entire report and visit other crashtest sites around the net.. Along with the NHSTA rating the Escape 5 stars in all categories except a 4star in frontal crash offset..
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Npaladin - My wife and my life cannot be replaced. A car can, I don't care how expensive it is to fix. If you don't have the finacial reserves to fix bumper damage on a brand new car, why on earth would you buy new? It's time to cut up those credit cards.


    Scape - The article states that they lost "some data". Here are the actual intrusion and kinematic measures. In most categories, the Escape's interior buckles from 3-7 times as much as the CR-V. The A-pillar, which is a main structural support, bends back 11cm.


    http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/grey_smsuv.htm

  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    We can argue that this is in CM's not meters.. Kind of like the 4foot stopping distance advantage the Escape has over the CRV is not big deal right?? :-))
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    You also keep failing to mention this is ONE test ONE the frontal offset test. And it does matter where you make impact on the vehicle during this test. 1 inch to the left or right could change the entire test. I have had a some structural mechanics and know this to hold true.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    You've got excuses and theories. I've got data.


    If you don't think that 11 cm is a significant difference, take a look at the pictures. 11cm is the linear measure. Take note of how deformed the Escape's structure is.

  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    The Escapes 4 foot stopping advantage is nothing and means little, even though it could mean the difference between even having an accident in the first place.. yet when the CRV has an advantage its as plain as day, no questions asked..
    by the way the 4 foot advantage is data.. its all over the net and posted at other car sites. Why Edmunds does not post this after 3 years I don't know? or why edmunds doesn't change the incorrect ground clearance numbers I can't say either. I have asked multiple times with no response..
  • hondaman01hondaman01 Member Posts: 163
    Wow Varmint.....those are pretty ugly pictures!

    Have a good vacation scape? I saw a picture of one of those midnight (or whatever they are called) Escapes and I must admit, it looked quite nice!

    What do you think of this crashtest?
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    ...why edmunds doesn't change the incorrect ground clearance numbers I can't say either....

    We're checking on it. Steve sent a note to command central! :-)

    tidester
    Host
    SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    "Npaladin - My wife and my life cannot be replaced. A car can, I don't care how expensive it is to fix. If you don't have the finacial reserves to fix bumper damage on a brand new car, why on earth would you buy new? It's time to cut up those credit cards."

    WHat do you think I did? Tell you what...YOU try living in NY State. We've got the highest cost of living in the world here, and the lowest average pay (once you take NY City out of the mix...most people think everyone in NY State lives in NY City). Cost of repair is a HUGE issue here as is insurance cost (which is required by law here), especially with all the nutball kids running around driving clunkers at 90 MPH, and the other nutty kids whose parents work in one of the "rich" areas and bought their nutty kids some new BMW or Mercedes (which they drive at 90 MPH).

    Most people don't WANT their repairs going on their insurance, because the rates are already going up...so they have to be able to make any repairs out of pocket. That means the less it costs to repair a vehicle, the better.

    American cars tend to be cheaper to repair (and insure), so they sell very well here. Moreso than Hondas...we've only got 2 Honda dealers around, versus 4 Ford dealers, and only one of the Honda dealers gets any sort of reasonable volume of sales. The Subaru dealer does fairly well because they tend to avoid accidents better. There's a VW dealer here too...they doo about enough to stay in buisness...probably because they're the cheapest European cars to repair. :)
  • daveghhdaveghh Member Posts: 495
    Once again you have me quite baffled....


    Checked edmunds.com for the Escape ground clearance and they say 7.8 inches. So I checked fords web site and compared the CRV to the Escape and found that ford sites a 7.8 inch ground clearance for the Escape. What exactly is the mystery??? Anyways the CRV wins by 0.3 inches!!!! ;)


    http://www.fordvehicles.com/includes/comparecontentframeset.asp?vehicle=escape

    Ford is sneaky also with the comparison they tend to unexaggerrate the CRV EX options. Such as the Standard 6 cd in dash changer! Huh... I guess Ford has to exaggerate anywhere they can. ;)

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I think that's the answer I got last time I asked our data guys, but I seem to have lost my notes on that (the answer being "we got our info direct from Ford").

    Still, why does the Tribute range from 7.9" to 8.1" depending on the wheel/tire combo?

    When these little disputes break out in Vans, we all just grab our tape measures (hint, hint). I'd go partrol the parking lots myself and record some numbers but I have bigger problems to worry about.

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • daveghhdaveghh Member Posts: 495
    Steve, that is ONE funny site! I think we all have that "big" problem this time of year.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    davegh,
    The Escape XLT comes with a standard six CD changer as well. They only listed "CD Player" for both when I looked.

    I can't imagine why Ford would tend to be biased towards the Escape on their own web site? It's almost like they are trying to sell them for profit or something. The nerve of them!

    I'm sure Honda makes no money on CR-V sales. They are so perfect that they can afford to sell their products as a public service.

    scape,
    I've already tried to argue that moving the vehicles over a few inches can change the crash results. No one really seems to think that that can be true, and I keep getting data from one single test thrown back in my face.

    Hey everyone, let's go jump off a bridge! I read in "Brain Dead Weekly" that it's a lot of fun. Last one over is a rotten egg!

    Again, here's hoping that all of your crashes (hopefully none really) are into a rectangular barrier made of aluminum honeycomb.
  • hondaman01hondaman01 Member Posts: 163
    Looks like Kia and Ford have a lot in common!


    http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_smsuv.htm

  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    hondaman,
    I don't know what you are so happy about. The 2001 CR-V (which is what you are driving around in by the way) scored no better than the Escape.

    The Kia was tested at the same time your model CR-V was tested (1998). Looks like Honda had the same thing in common until a couple of months ago. They've just had a little more time to make some adjustments for this most recent test.
  • daveghhdaveghh Member Posts: 495
    Baggs,

    I agree with the 4 foot stopping distance, but you would be quite silly to say that you would opt for that over the crash safety of the 2002 CRV. I agree with Varmint that: Escape owners generally have excuses and crv owners generally have theories. Besides the 5mph bumper test and the 4 foot stopping distance, towing, what do you guys have?

    In, hondaman's defense....

    Back in when the first generation CRV came out in 1997 it wasn't the bottom of the pack like the Escape is now! The escape came out last year and it is the WORST along with the Kia.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    davegh,
    "Back in when the first generation CRV came out in 1997 it wasn't the bottom of the pack"

    Back in 1997 when the CR-V came out it only had two real competitors. The RAV4 and the Cherokee. As you can see in hondaman's link, neither one did well in the IIHS crash scenario either. All three rated marginal which puts each of them at the top and at the bottom of the pack.

    If safety is so important to all those around here that own pre-2002 CR-V's, why don't you all own Foresters or Wranglers? They tested much better than the previous iteration of the CR-V.

    "I agree with the 4 foot stopping distance..."

    I didn't mention anything about the stopping distance (I don't think anyway) so you must have me confused with someone else. But since you brought it up, I'll try to post Motor Trend's test data for the two. I believe the difference was eight feet for them. The CR-V did win their 0-60 (auto trans in both) by .1 sec, but lost it in the quarter mile by something like .5 sec. I'll try to find it tonight.

    "Besides the 5mph bumper test and the 4 foot stopping distance, towing, what do you guys have?"

    A vehicle that we liked a lot more than the CR-V and any other mini-ute.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Scape - I wasn't challenging your 4ft. data. I was talking about the crash tests. If you can prove shifting the test one inch will magically improve the Escape's score to a rating higher than the CR-V's, then we've got something to talk about. I doubt very much that you have that information. For all we know, the Escape might get worse if you change the test.

    Right now, all of the data says the CR-V is safer in a crash.

    Regarding the older models: Yes, the CR-V that was designed about 8-9 years ago was as safe as the Escape designed a few years back. The current CR-V and Escape models are much closer in terms of design age than the 1st gen CR-V and Sportage (which is quite possibily the oldest). Even the Freelander, which has been out for a long, long time scored higher than the Escape.

    Daveghh - With this satement, "Besides the 5mph bumper test and the 4 foot stopping distance, towing, what do you guys have?", you are asking for more information than we (the forum) can possibly handle at once. It doesn't matter if it's correct or not. Let's stick with one topic at a time.

    **edit** You snuck in on me there Baggs...

    The other competitor was the Sidekick. Probably more so than the Cherokee. The IIHS crash test data for these vehicles was not available for the first few years of sales. Even now, it is not exactly common knowledge. I've spoken with several well-educated buyers who compare safety by looking for safety equipment, but not actual crash data.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Am I reading some excuses above?

    If we go by safety equipment, I believe it is a draw. Except for the CR-V's dual pre-tensioners on the seat belts. (note that the seat belts were recalled early in the CR-V, all seems well now)
  • daveghhdaveghh Member Posts: 495
    All right, sometimes I get really into this Escape versus CRV argument, but when it comes down to it their isn't a whole heck of a big difference between the two vehicles.

    The only "major differences" I see are the following things.
    -looks
    -towing
    -reliability, only assuming statistics are accurate

    Other then the major differences I stated we might as well be arguing the differences between Purdue and Gold-n-plump chicken breasts!
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    YOu claim the CRV is safer in a crash.. you fail once again to say OFFSET crash ONLY. You are making this out to look like the Escape is a tin can! One test, I say again ONE TEST the offset crashtest the CRV does better than the Escape, lets make this clear. And you fail to mention the lost data of the IIHS they mention in a lower paragraph. You have to wonder why they didn't upgrade that catagorey when they compared it with Mazda/Fords data and said it was actually good??
    Playing down the vehicles ability to stop in the first place to avoid an accident is a typical Honda ploy. The Escape stops better than the CRV, has lower repair costs, out tows, is more powerful, has more payload, more GVWR. The V6 is an advantage in vehicles of this weight. You forget I drove an automatic CRV up Hwy 26 over MT Hood loaded down with 4 adults and about 400lbs of weight.. the 160HP 2.4 had to gasp and shift.. The Escape takes this added weight with no problems because of its 40HP/40ft/lbs of torque advantage..
    My vacation was great! Like I said saw more RAV4's in California than CRV's and Escapes.. Don't know why? I would take the CRV over that dinky RAV4. The RAV4 is a spendy little bugger..
  • hondaman01hondaman01 Member Posts: 163
    We are not talking about my 2001 CRV. We are comparing todays vehicles and the Escape is not even as good as my 2001 which is a 7-8 year old design. data is data and you have been asking for it and after all this back bumper thing, it is nice to have real proof for once to show you.

    I was hit in the back at 30mph in March by a new Explorer and received half the expense (damage wise) as he did. So I think Ford has a way to go yet with safety.

    Honda has used valuable knowledge from racing incidents and transmitted this to their passenger cars. Racing technology does pay off and Honda is light years ahead of Ford there.
  • hondaman01hondaman01 Member Posts: 163
    Scape you are starting to repeat yourself again. We all know there is a 40hp adavntage and a four foot braking distance blah blah.... No one is going to disagree with you there. You all wanted comparisons and now they are coming. I don't care about how fast I can get to the other stop sign or towing 3000 pounds....I want safety and reliability and quality.
  • daveghhdaveghh Member Posts: 495
    Scape, you messed up on saying the Escape has a different ground clearance then what ford sites! Then you don't 'fes up to the mistake...

    Then you say that the crv only "beats" the escape in the offset category! You are wrong, my friend, the crv also bested the escape in the national highway test as well! Are you that forgetful!

    You also forgot that my girl friend has a v6 and it does not beat my CRV in the 0 to 60 test!!! SAD very sad because it is a V6. You also pail in comparison in the mileage category.

    By the way, in regards to what you said a while ago about the Escape having a more "solid" underbelly, look at both and support your claim! What was that comment all about? You are a "fellow" engineer, right? And I fail to see the weakness in the CRV.... if anything the CRV has the same under belly as the escape, if not more refined!!!!

    To all the other Escape owners, I apologize for scapes2 over site of the obvious!

    We both have great vehicles and he forgets what he states in his previous posts..

    By the way, scape2 you make this site very entertaining and you make me want to figure out whether the Purdue or the Gold-n-Plump chicken breasts are better!!!
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    hondaman,

    I knew you were going to say that! The forum is titled "CR-V vs. Escape". Where in there do you see a model year designation. If anything you should be comparing the vehicle that you drive to the Escape because you actually know something about it. Have you ever even driven a 2002 CR-V? You may not even like it because it is quite different from the older one you know. I for one know that I prefer the older model's interior and exterior to the new one.


    Do you really want to compare the numbers between the 2001 or 2002 Escape and the 1997-2001 CR-V? The Escape was designed to compete directly with that model. They had to try and make it bigger and better in almost every category to do so. The new CR-V returns the favor, and it will continue to have slightly better numbers until the next iteration of the Escape hits the street. At least that's the way it usually goes.


    Here are the links to the 2001's. Look at the numbers yourself.


    http://www.edmunds.com/used/2001/ford/escape/4drxlt4wdwagon/specs.html?id=lin0066


    http://www.edmunds.com/used/2001/honda/crv/4drexawdwagon/specs.html?id=lin0066


    If the Escape doesn't better the CR-V in a category (we're still only talking about tenths of inches here) it nearly matches it. It's almost like looking at a mirror image.


    Your older CR-V has identical crash test data (had a four star in the NHTSA test and marginal in IIHS) and braking distance for the 2000 (Edmunds does not list it for the 2001 for some reason) is 141 feet. That's a difference of ten feet according to this site. Refresh my memory, how is your older model better?


    Racing safety? Ever hear of NASCAR? Several of Ford's vehicles are rated at five stars all around. Most (soon to be all) of their SUV's offer side curtain air-bags as an option as well as adjustable pedals (for those who are vertically challenged). Their vehicles are no less safe than anyone else's

  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    I too have done comparison tests between 2002 CRV's and the present Escape. Noway does the automatic CRV beat the v6 Escape in 0-60.. and you have to rev the crap out of the 5spd to even come close. keep dreaming...
    ground clearance for the Escape with the P235 16" wheels is 8.5". The P225 with 15" wheels is the 7.8 everyone talks about..
    The CRV bests the Escape in ONE category of crashtests only... The offset crashtest. This is both at the NHSTA and IIHS sites here on the net.
    the Escape was being designed well before the 2002 CRV. It takes a good 2 years or more to design/construct and bring a vehicle to production. The Escape was being sold in 2000 as a 2001 model..
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    LOL. I guess you're right, Baggs. Those could be construed as excuses. The point still stands, though. The current Escape didn't score significantly better than several models designed and built back in 93-95.

    As for the model year, we tend to compare the latest models with each other as those are available to the public. If you want to make up a "Used CR-V vs Used Escapes" thread, then we can discuss the older models.

    Scape2 - An offset crash is not the same thing as one side of the NHTSA full-frontal crash. The CR-V bests the Escape by a more than significant margin in the IIHS off-set crash. It also beats the Escape in the NHTSA full-frontal crash by a margin of one star.

    The CR-V is the first small SUV to earn top marks in both safety crash tests. The off-set and side impact results were duplicated in the Euro NCAP tests. The CR-V is also the first SUV to score high marks in the Euro NCAP pedestrian safety test.

    I'd also recommend that you double check your claims about ground clearance. I have no doubt that the Escape with larger tires is higher than the 7.8 standard. However, I suspect that you are adding the total difference in tire height, rather than just the half.
  • muckyduckmuckyduck Member Posts: 219
    "It takes a good 2 years or more to design/construct and bring a vehicle to production."

    Funny you should say that - a salesman at the Ford dealer where I got my daughter a Mustang (could not talk her out of buying a Ford, sad to say) told me that Ford has really cut back on design time and this was the reason he would not buy an Escape for at least two years to give Ford time to fix all the problems - gee, didn't the Escape/Tribute have some recalls when they first hit the streets???

    ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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