Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

CR-V vs Escape

19394969899167

Comments

  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Yeah, I already posted that in the other Escape threads but didn't here because it seems that no one is complaining about it in here anymore. The NHTSA has been investigating this issue for over two years now. Apparently they had a hard time duplicating it too.

    I for one am glad that they finally came up with a real solution to this problem because it has happened to us twice, and to countless other owners as well. However, I never saw it as being a big issue because you never lose complete control of the vehicle, just the power steering and brake assist, and it starts right back up.

    After hearing what everyone else had to say about it I was amazed at how many people really don't know anything about cars. You'd think the engine fell out and the wheels fell off! :) It was a big deal to them and someone had to do something about it.

    It's the first recall for the 2002 and 2003 and hopefully the last. How many is that for the 2001's? Five or six?
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    What was the problem? Will it affect the Tribute too?
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Some Escape/Tributes with the V6 were prone to stalling without notice. Most of the time it was while travelling at about 35-40 mph and coasting down a hill or grade. Basically the engine would just quit and you would lose power steering and brake assist. Kind of like coasting down a hill in neutral with the engine off or if you've ever driven an early eighties Chevette you know the feeling. :)

    It was always a surprise to the driver because there is no warning and all of the other electrical accessories kept working as normal. i.e. if you didn't see the warning lights come on, you didn't know anything was wrong until you tried to turn the wheel or brake.

    Over the past couple of years stories have been posted all over Escape/Tribute boards of what dealers and Ford have been doing to try and alleviate the problem. They've had a hard time with it because it is pretty much impossible to duplicate in the real world. PCM's were reflashed, parts were replaced, all with little success. The problem kept coming back.

    Sometime towards the end of 2002 new owners suddenly stopped posting about their first stall. Apparently Ford and/or Mazda figured out what was wrong and implemented it into production shortly after MY 2003 began. I guess the rest of us are finally going to share that wealth now.

    One thing we've all noticed is that the V6 models seemed to idle a little too low. So much so that when you let off of the gas after accelerating the tach needle would dip almost to the zero pin at times. If it happened to hit the zero pin, you stalled. It is an infrequent occurance, in a lot of cases the stalls were separated by years, but no doubt a problem. Downright scary for some folks.

    The recall calls for a PCM re-flash to fix it for good. What the flash will do is not public yet, but I don't think anyone will care what it does just as long as it works. ;)

    IIRC varmint's theory for the cause of the stall, back when we were discussing the issue on this thread, was a transmission hiccup. I still think it was some bad code and hope the programmer who wrote it is long gone. I'm curious to see what the flash does because either one of us can still be right. (I'm not trying to make this a contest. I just like solving mysteries. :) )
  • zeenzeen Member Posts: 401
    Is this stalling a problem in the 05's as well or have they corrected it by now?
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    Kind of like coasting down a hill in neutral with the engine off or if you've ever driven an early eighties Chevette you know the feeling. :)

    The exact same feeling can be had with a 1986 Civic CRX HF while driving through the Smokey Mtns. Thank god it was just me and my dog. I can't imagine what it would have been like with another 100+ pounds.

    I'm glad they found a fix for the stalls. I know my wife would panic. And I probably would the first time too depending on the situation.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    It only happens in 2001's through early 2003's. Your 2005 should be just fine.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    I'm betting on my "transmission hiccup" theory.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    What was my "transmission hiccup" theory?
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Something about lock-up during engine deceleration.

    Were you drinking that day? ;)
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    there is no doubt this stalling issues has been happening in Escape/Tribs, I would still like to see just how many out of the over 300,000 Escapes actually did stall. I know 2 other people, one has an 02 another an 01 like mine. All three of us have not had this experience. I am still willing to bet the percentage is very low.
  • kizhekizhe Member Posts: 242
    Better to have engine stall than fire.
    But even better to have none :-).
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    I honestly don't recall that theory. Maybe I should be drinking?

    This is my best guess. With an automatic transmission, there is a torque converter that locks up somewhere between 30 and 40 mph. During deceleration (no gas), the transmission actually helps drive the engine. This keeps the engine revs up. When the torque converter let's go, it allows the engine to rev freely (or stop revving). The sudden drop in revs might cause a stall.

    Is that it?
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    In a letter sent to NHTSA in May 2002, Mazda said the engine stalling didn't present "an unreasonable risk to motor safety." At that time, Mazda said it had received 2,087 reports of stalling and that accidents resulted in three cases.

    Two thousand reported stalls on the lower (MUCH lower) volume Tribute.
  • kizhekizhe Member Posts: 242
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    varmint,
    That sounds about right. It was a long time ago though.

    "2,087 stalls !! WOW!"

    I wouldn't go by those numbers either. We stalled twice and I reported it to the NHTSA both times. I've heard of others who reported multiple times as well. Their numbers may be high too unless Mazda stripped away the duplicate VIN numbers. Which I doubt.

    I don't think the percentage is high either, but I still do believe that all V6 Escape/Tributes from those production lots do have the potential to stall given the right set of circumstances.

    Ford and the NHTSA are finally doing the right thing by recalling all of them. They probably could have picked a better time though. Bad press for the Escape name at the same time you're trying to get people to buy the unproven hybrid version? Not a good idea. They should have recalled them a year ago.
  • kizhekizhe Member Posts: 242
    Yes, some people reported every stall, which is good thing to do. But IMO there are lots of people who did NOT by some reason. It's like "most rapes go unreported" :-).
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    would report a stall. Beings I have been labled a "Ford spoksperson" by some. Others can also be labled as "Honda spokespersons"....
    Are the 2000 reported to Mazda model years 01 and 02? Are any duplicates?
    I am still a true believer and a Honda fanatics worst nightmare. An Escape owner with about 40,000 trouble free miles on my 01 Escape. My also knowing 2 other owners that have not had any problems with thiers. 3 for 3, Hmmmm... With all the rumors and ranting about how unreliable the Escape/Tribute are this makes me wonder, are all 3 of us just lucky? Don't think so..
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Notice you din't mention the 600,000 Honda vehicles being recalled for transmission issues here in the U.S.....Go to the Escape/Tribute problems board and take a look at the link... For some reason I cannot get it to copy over to here....??
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    Those are the heavier trucks, ODY, Pilot, MDX, not the CR-V. I'm glad they finally go to the bottom of the mysterious Odyssy transmission problems, which cropped up occaisionally...
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    Those recalls aren't on the CR-V. I only posted those for the Taurus because I was asked to.

    Your insinuation that you can't get the link to work here for any reason other than your own lack of ability is HILARIOUS!!!!!!!!

    Comon! If we posted every recall, Ford's list would be ten times Honda's. I know, I know, it's a big conspiracy, the American media is out to make American cars look bad. And only recalls for the Big2.5 get any press...what was the logic behind that again?

    OH YEAH! AND HONDA HIDES EVERYTHING...LOL!

    Blither, blither, blither...
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    C'mon guys - let's cool it! The sniping looks bad to lurkers, newbies and other reasonable people.

    BTW - here's the link: Mazda Tribute/ Ford Escape problems

    tidester, host
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Just love to see icvi get all spun up....:-}
    Also, icvi, when you post something please include all the facts. the 2,000 stalls reported to Mazda were for model years 01-02, along with over 100,000 vehicles... a low percentage like I said.... Found the article in a paper...
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    Sorry Tidester, I wish there was a tone button on here so one could see what vein things were written in.

    Scape, The article never said there weren't stalls in 2003, they said the numbers they had only covered 01 and 02. So, the facts are that there could be substantially higher numbers than those reported for 01 and 02 PLUS, there could be 03 stalls that weren't included in this article.

    BTW, the number was 2,087 and that was only for the Tribute.
  • kizhekizhe Member Posts: 242
    Sophisticated people on this board probably believe that OTHER people living in US are just as informed and savvy about cars and computers.
    COMMON, lots of folks do not have internet access and have no intention to have it. Others that do have internet never heard of NHTSA , do not know how to file, etc. .
    Also if problem of 'stalls' is intermittent and car is still MOVING after it (and no warning lights are on), many of those folks would not see it as a problem .
    That is why I believe (I am with you, icvci ) that in reality " there could be substantially higher number (of stalls) than those reported for 01 and 02 ".
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Warning lights do come on when the engine stalls. All the lights you see when you turn the key to "ACC" come on.

    Whatever the percentages, everyone needs to have this done as every copy within the production dates pegged by Ford and Mazda have the potential to stall. Otherwise they would have singled out specific batches to save themselves a lot of money and aggravation.
  • kizhekizhe Member Posts: 242
    When this engine stalls is it possible to re start it without stopping? Or you have to stop and wait?
    When driver re starts the engine after stall, would the warning lights still come on like "check the engine" or so?
    In other words, do the car's computer "remembers" the last stall?
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    When this engine stalls is it possible to re start it without stopping? Or you have to stop and wait?


    Obviously you can't restart while the gear lever is on "D". However, all you have to do is pop the gear lever back to "N" and restart. You do not have to bring the vehicle to a stop to restart it. I did this when I experienced a stall on an on-ramp. Worked like a charm. My wife put the flashers on and pulled us over until I could figure out what was going on when it stalled on her.

    When driver re starts the engine after stall, would the warning lights still come on like "check the engine" or so?

    The lights go off as soon as you restart. In fact, no error code is sent to the computer which is one of the reasons it took so long and so many tries to fix. No one knew exactly what happened.

    People would go into service depts complaining of the stall but the techs would play dumb because A, no error codes were present in the computer and B, they couldn't reproduce it.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    icvi, you fail to mention the possible duplicates reported... You constantly mention those that "May" have not been reported, thus making people think EVERY 01/02 Escape/Trib is going to stall. This is not true.
    If it were not for Edmunds I would have never knows about the 600,000 Honda recall. I still have yet to read it in the paper or hear it on the national news.... I wonder how many people without computer access know about this recall...???
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    A quick search shows it has appeared in these media outlets. Don't try to tell me they wasted their time posting the story to their sites but didn't report it. These are all MAJOR media outlets for their respective areas. And, these are only a select FEW of the hits I got from Yahoo.

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-04-14-honda-recall_x.htm

    (Pretty small publication) LOL

    http://www.thebostonchannel.com/money/3007437/detail.html

    (Not a big city.)

    http://www.wtvynews4.com/home/headlines/684722.htm

    http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0404/18/autos-122832.htm

    (Who pays attention to cars in Detroit?)

    http://www.simcoe.com/sc/alliston/story/1835965p-2142620c.html

    http://www.cbc.ca/cp/business/040415/b0415124.html

    (The NATIONAL news source for ALL of Canada.)

    http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000101&sid=aTstuyh- - - - oic0E&refer=japan

    (Again, a rinky dinky shop.)

    http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/business/8442831.htm?1c

    http://www.kctv5.com/Global/story.asp?S=1788472

    http://www.dailypress.com/business/local/dp-93764sy0apr15,0,28110- - - - 51.story?coll=dp-business-localheads

    http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/L- - - - ayout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1081939370150&call_- - - - pageid=968350072197&col=968705923364

    WFAA (Dallas Fort Worth) Registration Req. So I couldn't post a link

    http://www.capitalnews9.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=- - - - 68973

    http://www.sanluisobispo.com/mld/sanluisobispo/8430549.htm

    Dallas Morning News Registration Req. So I couldn't post a link

    (Small town anyway.)


    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4740343/

    (Pffffffft.)

    http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20040414-040300-7874r.htm

    (Too busy admiring cherry blossoms to care.)

    http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/business/8434417.htm?1c

    (Can't read punch cards, can't read papers.)

    http://www.nbc11.com/automotive/3005172/detail.html

    http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/8430549.htm?1c

    (Brains are still too cold from winter to read.)

    http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/8430549.htm

    http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/8430711.htm- - - - ?1c

    http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/breaking/041404_honda_recall.html

    http://www.local6.com/automotive/3005172/detail.html

    http://www.kirotv.com/automotive/3005172/detail.html

    (You're all wet.)

    http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/classifieds/automotive/842- - - - 9926.htm?1c

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/apbiz_story.asp?category=1- - - - 310&slug=Honda%20Recall

    (Enough?)

    http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/8430549.ht- - - - m

    http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=1785631&nav=23iiMIU9

    http://www.katu.com/consumernews/story.asp?ID=66340

    You were saying????

    Please take all comments as light hearted laughs. No disrespect is meant.
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    You constantly mention those that "May" have not been reported, thus making people think EVERY 01/02 Escape/Trib is going to stall. This is not true.

    Fact is they all have the potential to stall. If you're not worried, ignore the recall.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    If you're not worried, ignore the recall.

    It's funny you mention that, because a lot of people on another Escape board are afraid to go in for the recall because they have not stalled and don't expect to. They don't want to mess with "perfection" I guess or if it ain't broke don't fix it.

    Talk about defeating the purpose!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Funny thing - the Escape recall came out around April 13 and the Honda one came out on the 14th, or thereabouts.

    When I check this well-respected site, only the Escape recall is mentioned. Maybe the Honda one missed the deadline by a few hours?

    Enjoy it Scape - here's the link.

    This one may make a good Letter to the Editors (just don't mention my name, LOL).

    Steve, Host
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Eat my words, chew, chew, foot in mouth.. what you may call it. ICVI, you are one person with a heck of a lot of time on your hands.
    Ford is posting profits again also, big profits. More to come they say with the introduction of new models....
    My wife now wants an SUV like mine. She drives the Escape every chance she gets. I am waiting until after the elections however. Mazda Tribute ESV6 is in the future? We will see I guess.
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    Good looking vehicle. I like everything about it except for the new floor console. Personally, I love having that space for my video camera, SLR or anything else I may want nearby. I just don't see the attraction.

    Not too much time scape, just enough. Seriously, that took all of 8 minutes to post.
  • arizonajoearizonajoe Member Posts: 123
    It's really weird to me how people identify so strongly with a car company, much in the same way that I might identify with my favorite football team.

    Some of the posters on this list tout sales figures, and the latest profit numbers, as though people who are shopping for a car should care about these things - as though these things should somehow drive one's decision. It's almost as though the Escape is supposed to be better than the CR-V, or vice versa, simply because Ford or Honda made a bigger profit last quarter.

    None of these companies care about you the way some of you seem to care about them. They are all massive corporations trying as hard as they can to ensure long-term profitability and market share by presumably making cars that you want to buy. Being so large, they don't have coherent identities, especially because your experience with them will likely consist of your experience with their independent dealerships.

    Ford in particular is not a firm legendary for its quality or superior engineering - there are no magic dust or magic people at Ford that make their products inherently superior. They get their engineers and their managers and their marketers from the same colleges and universities that everyone else does - and they don't do anything markedly different from other car companies. To a lesser extent, the same is true of Honda.
  • odie6lodie6l Member Posts: 1,173
    image
    The Ford Family owns more than just a car company...LOL.

    Odie
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    After the last two... make that FORTY TWO seasons, I can't believe anyone in this town still drives a Ford.

    Maybe they should name their next car car the Sanders. It will perform great but, ultimately, never get you to your final destination.

    Me, bitter? Nah......
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    If Barry had at least one or two guys who could block in front of him things might have been a lot different. Such a waste. ;)
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    1992 Eric Andolsek -Killed in his front yard weed whipping. 1991 Mike Utley -Paralyzed in a game against the Rams.

    Both were supposed to be great.

    What could have been.

    Ultimately, they needed a better game plan. You figure with a run game like that, they should have been able to pass all over the place.

    I am a HUGE fan of #20. I missed 3 home games in 11 years. And I drove to Philly, Tampa and Green Bay for play off games. Loss. Loss. Loss. Once Barry left, so did I. (Thank god.)
  • bshelbshel Member Posts: 232
    hey, thinking of getting a hood protector like that for my CR-V. Smaller than some of the other types.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    "And I drove to Philly, Tampa and Green Bay for play off games. Loss. Loss. Loss."

    The Lions made the playoffs sometime after the invention of the automobile? :)
  • odie6lodie6l Member Posts: 1,173
    I was at the philly p/o game also where philly was up 56 - 0 at half and lions came back within 7, but still ended in a loss. Was one of the best losses I've seen in a long time.

    Odie
  • kizhekizhe Member Posts: 242
    I can't stand watching ANY game more than 5-10 minutes on TV, because I get bored.
    Good for me!
    But I really enjoy working (tinkering) on cars.
    Edem das saine! :-)(Germ.).
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    Friggin Lomas Brown. "I guarantee a win." Whatever idiot. I was in the upper deck in the end zone during the Philly game. Nice fans, if you don't mind getting spit on and having things thrown at you while you get cussed out. And that's while they are winning. I didn't care about Philly before, now I'm always really happy when they lose.

    Worst crowd ever. (Comic book guy)

    We drove a rented bright blue Sable, good ride.

    Green Bay had the best fans. I sat 3rd row on the 50, spilled my beer on the guy in front of me and he just laughed. Of course, I bought him a beer and apologized profusely. Great game. Great fans.

    Rented a Dodge Caravan. It too was a good ride.

    Watching running footage of the new Tribute, it looks really good. If they had this vehicle when I was shopping, it might be parked in my garage.
  • odie6lodie6l Member Posts: 1,173
    I was in the 700 level 50 yrd visitor side, and not one person said one word to me. I was head to toe lions gear. My wife said "They either think your Crazy of they know you can back up your actions." We still laugh about it.

    I'm still loving my Escape but I'm hesitant on taking the Escape in for the recall, I haven't had any problems, so "If it ain't broke don't fix it." , but my wife saw the recall, and no sense arguing.

    Odie
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    odie,
    We just had the recall (two stalls in 2.5 years) done the other day and it does make a difference in the shift points. My wife, who knows nothing about cars, even noticed the difference. She thinks it feels better now.

    We also found out the brake pads and rotors needed replaced while they were performing the yearly PA state inspection. At just over 18k I'm a little annoyed but not surprised due to the wealth of information on that subject out here on the web. Some folks have gone upwards of 40k on the OEM's and others, like us, have not fared so well.

    Anyway, the dealer wanted to replace them with OEM parts for $400+. Needless to say, I took my business elsewhere. The neighborhood mechanic (he owns a garage) replaced the rotors and pads with Raybestos rotors and Raybestos ceramic pads for $330. Now we have much better pads and rotors, which won't increase the braking distance or create as much black dust, and saved a little in doing so.

    icvci,
    What year was that Sable? My Dad drives a loaded 96 Sable LS and it too is a pretty nice ride. The handling is a little sloppy for my taste but it's great for the highway, and an old man like him. Hope he's not reading this! :)
  • odie6lodie6l Member Posts: 1,173
    I'm still on my OEM pads and rotors at 46k and was told at my 45k check-up they still looked new.

    Odie
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Baggs,

    You're in PA, right? You might like to check this place out.

    http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4286910525

    http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4286920387

    The pics were taken at Paragon, an off-road adventure park in Hazelton, PA. Most of the trails are far too aggressive for the likes of an Escape or CR-V, but there were still plenty of places to play.

    We got quite a bit of good-natured abuse from the Jeep owners and other serious off-road enthusiasts, but it was all in good fun. After watching me navigate the stream crossing and another member of our group do the hill climb, they had to give us props for taking our cute utes into the trails.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Cool pics! You guys were just askin' for a good old fashioned ear beating by going there in CR-V's. :)

    I think odie lives a little closer to that place.

    I'm not sure if I'm ready for that sort of thing yet. It took me a while to muster the courage for beach driving in the OBX a couple of years ago.
  • kizhekizhe Member Posts: 242
    Funny thing: In the DEVELOPED countries people are looking for places like Paragon park to have fun.
    In 3rd World countries people are trying to avoid places like that - they got too much "fun" having it every day. :-).
    ( I used to work for extended periods of time in Africa, S. America, SE Asia, Siberia etc.)
Sign In or Register to comment.