CR-V vs Escape

varmint · March 2006

"if the number of dealerships is the deciding factor sales numbers, then explain the accord/c-rv versus ford sedan/escape discrepensy."

The Accord is a good sedan. The latest Taurus models are not. No real mystery, there.

The advantage in having more dealers is the ease in generating showroom traffic. Walk-ins are easy. And when there are four dealerships in the area, buyers can play them against each other, or easily find the model they want in stock. Macdonalds doesn't sell the best tasting burger, but they sell the most because their locations are convenient.

Anyway, the F-150 and Explorer generate plenty of showroom traffic. Ford sells roughly twice as many vehicles as Honda overall. That's a whole lot of people coming through the door.

It's like I wrote before. The Escape outsells the Tribute by a wide margin. Why? It's not because the vehicles are different. It's the other advantages Ford has over Mazda... dealerships, advertising, domestic-biased customers, fleet sales, and such. These are real factors when it comes to sales numbers, but they have nothing to do with the popularity of the vehicle.

dromedarius · March 2006

Honda's sales are up 14% this year, while Ford is even YTD. However, Ford's average of 28% fleet sales was up to 41% last month.

Also, from JD Power and Associates:

blueiedgod · March 2006

i try to keep it to the facts (the ones that count). if the number of dealerships is the deciding factor sales numbers, then explain the accord/c-rv versus ford sedan/escape discrepensy. that is all i want to say in reply.

Prehaps people who buy Honda in the first place are more educated and have calculated that they don't need an SUV. The Accord will suffice.

I had a Civic before the CR-V, and would still have the Civic if I didn't move to Buffalo. Given, I could have bought winter tires and kept the Civic. But, the Si's ground clearance was something I could not fix with the snow tires. The car would get high centered if the roads were not plowed, which in a sudden Buffalo blizzard is not an uncommon occurence.

Since there is no car inbetween the Civic and the Accord in my price range (TSX is the inbetween car, but at $28K is alittle too pricey for me), CR-V was the natural choice. It has the ground clearance that Civic did not have, has the AWD which is nice, and is not quite as big as the Accord.

While Ford buyers are just getting a truck (Tim the Toolman's grunt grunt).

explorerx4 · March 2006

steve_host... oops guess i didn't look in he right place. oh well.
your cr-v puchase makes perfect sense for you. others have different perspectives. this is really what i am trying to get across in my posts.

scape2 · March 2006

you show Honda sales are up 14%, yet there are not enough Honda dealerships? Its all the Ford dealerships that cause one brand to sell better than the other? I don't buy the dealership excuse. If someone wants to test drive a Honda here in the United States they can, no problem.
I believe alot of this debate comes down to one thing. Image. We are an image based society, no doubt. You bash the Taurus, but do you know how reliable the Taurus has been? It doesn't matter the Taurus is a great car overall, for thousands upon thousands less than an Accord. Image, pure image. I know I am a growing number who don't buy the Honda reliability superiority brainwash garbage. I get out on the net and talk with other people around the U.S. Honda's days are numbered. Enjoy it while you got it. I am living proof, I know plenty of other Ford owners who have also owned Ford products that also don't understand the constant media blitz against Ford. My Escape runs great at 67,000 miles. I paid less for the Escape than I would have for a comparable CRV. I won't pay the extra $$$ for image, I would rather take a vacation..

dromedarius · March 2006

With the new CR-V coming out and the Escape remaining the same for yet another year, I went out on the web and did some research. One of the reasons people are talking about potential bankruptcy for Ford is the fact that Ford absolutely REFUSES to produce new products consistently.

These are the Ford vehicles which are long in the tooth:

Focus - Plagued by quality problems
Taurus - Fleet car material
Freestar - Drove two of these last summer...WORST vehicle I have EVER driven
Crown Victoria - Strictly for the elderly and police departments
Escape - Plagued by quality problems
Excursion - I can't comprehend why someone would buy one of these...
Explorer Sport Trac - Rollover waiting to happen

Each one of these vehicles would be redesigned if it were a Toyota or a Honda. It's no wonder Ford, GM and Chrysler sales continue to struggle while Toyota and Honda continue to skyrocket upward. Based on what the new Civic is doing right now, I'm really looking forward to see what the new CR-V will do this fall!!!

PS - Of Consumer Reports Top 10, ALL of them are Japanese, and half of them are Honda! The CR-V, even at five years old and with a new model forthcoming, is the runnerup in its category.

:shades:

explorerx4 · March 2006

ok grad, i posted a pic on carspace.

mikefm58 · March 2006

Amazing. Honda hits 5 out of 10. Hmmmm, isn't that there whole lineup? Well, almost.

But I bet it's only because of their image.......

dromedarius · March 2006

In brand reliability, CR ranked Honda #2.

Reliability: Top-ten ranked brands
1. Lexus
2. Honda
3. Toyota
4. Mitsubishi
5. Subaru
6. Acura
7. Scion
8. Mercury
9. Mazda
10. Suzuki

dromedarius · March 2006

From consumeraffair.com:

Having painted themselves into a corner, executives from General Motors and Ford are petitioning Congress for a boatload of subsidies and favors while strenuously insisting it's anything but a bailout.

The Washington Post reported that GM and Ford are seeking taxpayer funds for everything from increased subsidies of alternative fuels to more government support of the automakers' enormous pension and health care costs.

So...Ford and GM want ME to pay for their inability to produce quality automobiles and take control of their own operations??? Talk about a sense of entitlement!!!

:mad:

As writer Matthew Yglesias recently pointed out, "The problem, according to everybody, is that American cars . . . don't work and require constant repairs. It's easy to see how a reputation for making stuff that doesn't function reliably would hurt your bottom line, and dare I say this issue probably swamps whatever one may want to say about health care and pension obligations."

Like scape, I too encourage you to get out on the web and look around. I'm just not sure we're reading the same things, because from what I see, Honda isn't the one in BIG trouble...

:confuse:

dromedarius · March 2006

The Civic won the 2006 MT Car of the Year Award, the Ridgeline won the 2006 Truck of the Year Award, and the Accord, Acura TSX won 2006 C & D 10Best Awards. Also, the Oddysey and the Pilot won 2006 5Best Awards from C & D. Based on Honda's overall success, I'd be surprised if the upcoming CR-V doesn't rack up some awards as well!

mikefm58 · March 2006

But But, it's only because of Honda's image.....

stever · March 2006

You forgot the part about other governments providing health insurance; I think I read that having subsidized health insurance costs the Japanese manufacturers a third of what the domestic manufacturers have to pay.

None of which helps people wandering in here wondering whether to buy a CR-V or Escape (most went to look at the RAV-4 I think since one in here is talking about hatches vs side opening doors or 4 cylinders vs sixes. :P).

Now where are those pics in your CarSpace album?

Steve, Host

varmint · March 2006

"It doesn't matter the Taurus is a great car overall, for thousands upon thousands less than an Accord. Image, pure image. I know I am a growing number who don't buy the Honda reliability superiority brainwash garbage."

Then why do you have an Accord instead of a Taurus? :shades:

varmint · March 2006

Alright folks, let's get off the Honda vs Ford stuff and back to Escape vs CR-V. Sure, Ford has plenty of troubles right now, but I don't think any can blame the Escape for them.

Steve, the government gets the money for that healthcare from tax revenue, which means the manufacturers have to pay more to compensate for high taxes.

Furthermore, when expressed as a percentage, Honda produces just as many of their cars & trucks in North America as Ford. The number coming from Japan is probably about 10% (half the CR-Vs and hybrids). Some CR-Vs come from the UK. More than 80% are built in North America. And the import numbers will be dropping when CR-V production begins in Ohio next year.

Clearly, the costs of healthcare in the US are not as significant as the costs of manufacturing overseas and shipping the vehicles inbound. Otherwise, why would the imports be expanding their facilities here?

scape2 · March 2006

What are you talking about??
Focus - Plagued by quality problems - The Civic has not been the greatest either. Its had its share of problems. Look around the net at its recalls/TSB's. They don't get publicized as much.. Besides, you make it look like the Focus is plagued with quality issues. Once again. Look before you leap. Check MSN reliabiltiy of this vehicle..

Taurus - Fleet car material - May be "rental car" material. But it is extremely reliable and costs thousands upon thousands less than a comparable Accord.
Freestar - Drove two of these last summer...WORST vehicle I have EVER driven - Your opinion...

Crown Victoria - Strictly for the elderly and police departments

Escape - Plagued by quality problems - Once again, don't know what you are talkinging about. Check MSN reliability data, along with rooms around the net. My two have been problem free. Be more specific on "quality problems". I admit the first year was a disaster, but so was the first year of the Odessey..

Excursion - I can't comprehend why someone would buy one of these... - Your opinion once again. There must be a market for it..
Explorer Sport Trac - Rollover waiting to happen - please back this data up once again, your opinion..

scape2 · March 2006

Ok, lets talk "Bailout".
Gee, I wonder what kind of tax breaks Honda/Toyota got for building thier plants here in the U.S.? Isn't this a bailout? AND.. They also get subsidized from the Japanese government with tax breaks and special treatment. Don't think it happens? Boy, have I got a bridge to sell you..
I worked for a Japanese company that got millions in U.S. taxpayer breaks. They then bought all Japanese made and supported equipment/tooling machinery. Laid off all the American engineers/techs too! Keep on waiving the Japanese flag folks...The only Americans left working were the $10hour folks... Get educated before you talk about bailouts!

scape2 · March 2006

"The Civic won the 2006 MT Car of the Year Award, the Ridgeline won the 2006 Truck of the Year Award, and the Accord, Acura TSX won 2006 C & D 10Best Awards. Also, the Oddysey and the Pilot won 2006 5Best Awards from C & D. Based on Honda's overall success, I'd be surprised if the upcoming CR-V doesn't rack up some awards as well! "

Gee, doesn't that signal BAIS? Hmm..... :confuse:

scape2 · March 2006

I no longer own an Accord.. Saw the light. I now know I don't have to pay thousands of extra dollars for the silver "H" to get a reliable, quality vehicle..

scape2 · March 2006

"Clearly, the costs of healthcare in the US are not as significant as the costs of manufacturing overseas and shipping the vehicles inbound. Otherwise, why would the imports be expanding their facilities here? "

I know why.. tax breaks!.. Hello subsidy..

dromedarius · March 2006

I worked for a Japanese company that got millions in U.S. taxpayer breaks. They then bought all Japanese made and supported equipment/tooling machinery. Laid off all the American engineers/techs too! Keep on waiving the Japanese flag folks...The only Americans left working were the $10hour folks...

Is this why you have this blind hatred toward Asian imports? I guess I can kinda understand this. However, I believe in a capitalistic system. At one time, I was burned by my company investing heavily in overseas consultants, but I took it as motivation and bettered myself to make me more marketable and lucrative.

When it comes to buying stuff, especially a car, I buy wisely and make sure I get the most bang for my buck. That's the major reason I bought a Honda CR-V. I got it cheaper than an Escape, knowing full well it would be more reliable and that I would get more when I sold/traded it (and that the TCO of ownership would be lower). My advice is to not let your biases, no matter their origins, get in the way of being a smart consumer.

thegraduate · March 2006

Why you keep bringing up "brainwashing?" I believe everyone here (especially those posting) is competent enough to know what quality is, what reliability is, and how much one is willing to pay for it.

dromedarius · March 2006

I go as far as to say it goes the other way. It seems like some people insist a Honda is more expensive than a domestic. While that is true sometimes, it is in no way accurate 100% of the time. I think it applies most when one is talking about the Civic or the Accord, but then again, people buying those vehicles are buying Honda's bread and butter, and that means you are buying everything Honda stands for, especially reliability. It has been illustrated over and over again that the CR-V is the cheaper of the two when equipped similiarly to the Escape, yet some people keep claiming the opposite is true.

kizhe · March 2006

"It's NOT rocket science.
If Ford would make cars that last, they would sell."
Unfortunately, a easy as it sounds, Ford choose to use other tactics to sell its products: discounts, incentives and various marketing gimmicks.
When people will trust Ford they will buy. I will too.

BTW, Volvo is still capitalizing on PAST reputation of reliability , which is no longer true. I learned it hard way... .

baggs32 · March 2006

PS - Of Consumer Reports Top 10, ALL of them are Japanese, and half of them are Honda! The CR-V, even at five years old and with a new model forthcoming, is the runnerup in its category.

Boy what a big surprise that is! The subscribers of CR rated the cars CR recommends as the best. See the endless loop in there?

You might want to check your "long in the tooth" Ford models too. Some of them are gone, going to be gone and/or replaced with something new and better, or have been redesigned for MY07. They're not sitting around on their hands at FMC as many seem to think thanks to the media.

dromedarius · March 2006

I'm interested; what do you think of CR subscribers? Would you say they are or aren't as smart as your average consumer?

Also, I took those cars straight from Ford's website . Maybe you would be so kind as to be more specific about the problems you have with the models they are listing.

I also forgot the Ford Ranger, which is nearly as old as me.

mikefm58 · March 2006

" I know why.. tax breaks!.. Hello subsidy..

Yep, I agree, we only give tax breaks and subsidies to Japanese heritage companies, nothing to American companies.

explorerx4 · March 2006

i think many c-r subscibers are people who at the very least risk averse, and more likely afaid to make their own decisions as far as consumer products go.
like anything else, they are not all good or bad.
if they don't like the Escape, too bad for them.

explorerx4 · March 2006

we looked at the cr-v. outside spare, side swinging rear access(wrong side too), no rear bumper. one, two, three strikes, you're out!
sorry did not work for us. the Escape is better than that and has the other features we were looking for.

thegraduate · March 2006

the Escape is better than that...

For YOU the Escape is better. Others put more value in great fuel economy, better overall reliability, proven resale value, and getting more car for their money. (that last statement isn't really a good one, since my money is different from yours; you value different things, right?)

dromedarius · March 2006

The CR-V has one. It has to in order to adhere to government safety standards. It just isn't pronounced because of the rear-mounted spare. Then again, neither is the Escape's, nor are 95% of the other non-pickups/large SUVs out there.

Also, if you're REALLY worried about safety, you might want to check out the CR-V with its standard front, side and curtain airbags, VSC, EBD, ABS and traction control.

explorerx4 · March 2006

grad, you are a lot younger than i am, and do i view things differently.
here is a bit of how i view vehicles: i want to drive something i enjoy(this does not exclude either make). to save gas i live close to where i work. in connecticut we pay a property tax each year, based on the 'nada'(at least that is what is used to be, may have changed) value of your vehicle. also, Honda is very expansive to insure, due to their theft rates.

dromedarius · March 2006

That's kinda what I thought. Personally, I don't subscribe to CR, but I think its a great publication. It does the kinds of testing the buyer can't. I see the CR subscriber as being smarter than the average joe walking in to a dealership off the street, just as I think people who research their cars on the internet are smarter than the average buyer. That's why I think people who buy foreign brands are seen as unpatriotic or yuppies, while I think many of them tend to be more educated.

explorerx4 · March 2006

drom... all that stuff you posted does not help you if you are hit from behind. this is common. post your pictures on 'car space' or lose your your cred. even i did it. i know you visited.

dromedarius · March 2006

True, but that's what the structure of the car and the crumple zones are for. But...what about if you are hit from the side?

And I'm not quite sure how posting pics of my vehicles affects my credibility, but if I eventually do it someday, I'm going to wait until I can clean my car up real nice. Right now its covered in slop due to the fact we have 3-4 inches of fresh ice and snow on the ground.

blueiedgod · March 2006

It doesn't matter the Taurus is a great car overall, for thousands upon thousands less than an Accord. Image, pure image. I know I am a growing number who don't buy the Honda reliability superiority brainwash garbage. I get out on the net and talk with other people around the U.S. Honda's days are numbered.
Enjoy it while you got it. I am living proof, I know plenty of other Ford owners who have also owned Ford products that also don't understand the constant media
blitz against Ford. My Escape runs great at 67,000 miles. I paid less for the Escape than I would have for a comparable CRV. I won't pay the extra $$$ for image, I would rather take a vacation

Here we go again.

2006 Ford Taurus SE, $19,986, add Safety and Security (Anti-lock brakes, side air bags, traction control) for $1,014 for a total of $20,852 after the REBATE!.

2006 Honda Accord LX, $18,730, add Automatic tranny to be even at $719 for a total of $19,449

Honda is $1403 cheaper than FORD. Once again, SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!! It is the Honda buyer that can go on vacation.

I chose the 4 cylinder to compare to Accord because the V6 in Taurus (153 HP) is 13 hp short on power compared to the 4 cylinder in the Accord (166 HP). Sorry, Honda does not offer pathetic engines to make it compare more evenly with
Taurus.

I would not boast about the 67,000 miles here. Most Hondas are not even broken in by 67,000 miles. Come back when you have 150,000 - 200,000 miles on the Escape.

I paid $20,500 for 2005 CR-V EX (read loaded) that came with VSC, ABS, AWD, 30 mpg, 6 disc in-dash changer, steering wheel radio controls, sunroof, much much better resale, and still beat any Escape out there to 60 mph. So, unless your Escape has all that and can beat my $20K CR-V in price department, you paid too much.

thegraduate · March 2006

Yes, I understand that we view things differently, and I am less experienced than most when it comes to paying taxes, making financial decisions.

I don't know about insurance rates on the CR-V vs. Escape, so I'll definitely take your word for it. Insurance actually went DOWN when changing from our van (2000 Odyssey) to my current car, the much more widely stolen Accord. This was due to the increase in safety features from the Ody to the Accord. My Accord has 8 airbags, the Odyssey had two. I'd bet that the larger insurance premium due to theft is largely balanced by lower rates due to class-leading standard safety features.

tidester · March 2006

I have concluded that it's a toss-up between the CR-V and the Escape. If either had features and qualities that were vastly superior to the other then the decibel level of contentiousness on these boards would be at a comfortable level. :shades:

tidester, host

Drive on over to my place!

edwin10 · March 2006

I have to be honest with both of you, I would not have
either. Four weeks ago my wife was at a stop light,
third in line when a college student in a CR-V rear
ended her without ever hitting their brakes going at
over 35 mph. Thank goodness my wife was in a 3/4 ton
Chevy Suburban. It shoved my wife's car into the car
in front of her, but did only minor damage to the rear
of my wife's Suburban, and none to the front. My wife
walked away without a scratch. The college girl in
the CR-V was airlifted away. The CR-V even caught fire
in the engine area.

I had been bugging my wife to get a smaller vehicle,
but she said no, I like my Suburban. I now completely
agree with her, even if gas is $5 per gallon. Her life
is worth every penny. In fact we already have the
Suburban back, and I heard the girl in the CR-V just
got out of the hospital, and went back home, instead of
school. Her airbags went off, but it was such a hard
hit, she got banged up pretty bad, but will be ok they
tell us in a few months.

ergo · March 2006

I thought so too Tidester! :confuse:

Then I spent the night driving a 2006 Ford Escape Hybrid. Loaded with 5 full size persons, it was VERY impressive. I hadn't realized the Escape had come that far. None of my 3 Honda's or CR-V experiences ever passed the 5 full size passenger test. Much less with flying colors. Nice job Ford!

Despite my historically Honda tendencies, I felt the Escape was a MUCH more solid driving experience. YMMV. :surprise:

tidester · March 2006

Yikes, edwin, that sounds majorly serious! I'm glad your wife made it out okay and hope the young lady recovers fully.

tidester, host

tidester · March 2006

ergo,

In the end, your vehicle choice should match your requirements and wishes. And if one of your requirements is to haul 5 full sized people then choose accordingly!

tidester, host

mikefm58 · March 2006

" i think many c-r subscibers are people who at the very least risk averse, and more likely afaid to make their own decisions as far as consumer products go "

LOL, what a cop out...LOL... You own an Escape, now someone disagrees with you, so you say they're afraid to make their own decisions...LOL. What scientific evidence do you have that supports this?

baggs32 · March 2006

I'm interested; what do you think of CR subscribers? Would you say they are or aren't as smart as your average consumer?

They are definitely smarter than the AVERAGE consumer because the average consumer to me is the guy/gal that walks in to a dealer off the street because they like the looks of a vehicle and only the looks of a vehicle. I don't think they are smarter than all consumers though and, in my experience knowing several subscribers, tend to lazy when it comes to making a decision. They want someone to do it for them and CR makes that easy.

I don't think it's right that CR presents it's findings as fact if you will. It's actually very far from fact and can be misleading if you don't do the research on their research. I tell everyone I know that it should only be used as a guide and that they need to look at other sources of information, as well as the all important test drive, before making an informed decision.

I personally don't concern myself with a lot of what CR presents to it's readers when shopping for vehicles so it's pretty much useless to me. Actually their spec sheets are factual and therefore could be useful to me.

Besides, CR isn't paying for my vehicle so I'm not going to let them choose it.

Maybe you would be so kind as to be more specific about the problems you have with the models they are listing.

I'm not going to post sources for what I'm typing because you can find all of it with simple Google searches. Here goes.

These are the Ford vehicles which are long in the tooth:

Focus - Plagued by quality problems
Taurus - Fleet car material
Freestar - Drove two of these last summer...WORST vehicle I have EVER driven
Crown Victoria - Strictly for the elderly and police departments
Escape - Plagued by quality problems
Excursion - I can't comprehend why someone would buy one of these...
Explorer Sport Trac - Rollover waiting to happen

Focus - Not plagued by quality issues any more and hasn't been for about three years now. Was just refreshed but needs to be updated via the Euro version. Until then you can buy a Mazda3 which is the Euro version.

Taurus - Gone very, very soon. Not redesigned as you suggest but rather replaced with the Fusion and Five Hundred. I'm not so sure they're even making consumer versions anymore. Just fleets IIRC.

Freestar - Will disappear soon too. A year or two IIRC. Will be replaced, not redesigned, with a "people mover" like the Fairlane concept from last year. Volvo is supposedly working on a minivan right now (read that in MT the other day) so Ford may have something up it's sleeve for that one day too.

Crown Vic - Has a loyal following so it won't die. It's a cash cow for Ford too. Don't expect it to ever be redesigned but Ford is reportedly fast-tracking a new rear-drive sedan to compete with the 300 (I think I just saw this in MT too) so a replacement may be possible.

Escape - Spy photos show it will be updated for MY07. The Tribute is getting a new, more upscale interior for MY08 and will take MY07 off. I'm guessing the Escape will get the new interior for '07 too along with some new sheet metal and who knows what else. A smaller crossover will be introduced within the next couple of years and the Edge will be on sale this fall so the future of the Escape is up in the air.

Excursion - Gone. Replaced with the Expedition EL.

Explorer Sport Trac - Redesigned. Widened too IIRC.

You'll note that a couple of the vehicles are being replaced with not one, but two brand new models. Ford is actually copying what Toyota does with it's model lineup if you think about it. Given the current state of the market, that can't be a bad thing.

baggs32 · March 2006

What scientific evidence do you have that supports this?

Probably a sample of subscribers he personally knows. That makes his findings, and mine for that matter, every bit as scientific as CR's.

blueiedgod · March 2006

I have to be honest with both of you, I would not have
either. Four weeks ago my wife was at a stop light,
third in line when a college student in a CR-V rear
ended her without ever hitting their brakes going at
over 35 mph. Thank goodness my wife was in a 3/4 ton
Chevy Suburban. It shoved my wife's car into the car
in front of her, but did only minor damage to the rear
of my wife's Suburban, and none to the front. My wife
walked away without a scratch. The college girl in
the CR-V was airlifted away. The CR-V even caught fire
in the engine area.

I had been bugging my wife to get a smaller vehicle,
but she said no, I like my Suburban. I now completely
agree with her, even if gas is $5 per gallon. Her life
is worth every penny. In fact we already have the
Suburban back, and I heard the girl in the CR-V just
got out of the hospital, and went back home, instead of
school. Her airbags went off, but it was such a hard
hit, she got banged up pretty bad, but will be ok they
tell us in a few months.

What if the girl who rear ended your wife was in a Hummer H1, or Ford F-650 (the biggest Ford pick up) would that make you want to go out a buy an even bigger truck? Oh, wait a minute, that is how the "SUV wars" started. Everyone kept on getting bigger and bigger SUV's "for Safety"

I hear those Greyhound buses are about 80,000 lbs and can go through brick wall wihtout damage, why not get that? OR a Bradley Assault vehicle, with 6WD and 2 inch body armor she won't have to fear anything. And if there is an incoming unibody vehicle, she can use the turret to pulverize it before the impact.

I have been rear ended in the CR-V by a Durango. I had no medical damage. The CR-V's safety features worked as intended (crumple zones crumple to minimize the force transfer the occupants). Ladder frame trucks in general do not bend fames on impact to absorb the impact forces. Yes, a car designed to sacrifice itself will look bad after an accident, but it is designed to do that, so that occupats do not experiece the forces of impact, while ladder frame trucks will transfer more of the impact to the occupants.

Your wife is lucky that she did not get injured.

I am surprized that the "feather weight" CRV was able to move the "mammoth" Suburban while Suburban had the brakes applied.

P.S. I had a Suburban for rental for about a month in 2002 (after my CR-V was rear ended), even though I had a very short 5 mile commute to work, the gas bill was not pretty. So, unless your wife regularly carries 9 pasengers, tons of cargo, or tows a 7000 lbs trailer, it is an overkill.

mikefm58 · March 2006

So I get it now Baggs, you go out and and ask a sample of your friends and co-workers, get their responses, find out that those are your friends and co-workers that can't make their own decisions, therefore CR readers also can't make their own decisions.

Thx for clarifying that for me.....

baggs32 · March 2006

Yeah Mike, that's exactly what I said. :confuse:

I don't like CR for many reasons so just deal with it. How I, or anyone else, perceive the people who solely use it to purchase a new vehicle matters not in this forum or anywhere else but in my, or their, head.

dromedarius · March 2006

Let me preface this by saying I'm glad to hear your wife was OK. Now, here is my problem with your line of thinking:

1) If everyone subscribed to your line of thinking, we'd all drive Suburbans, and like blueiegod said, than we'd all be looking for a bigger vehicle.

2) It's absolutely incorrect that your wife's Suburban is anymore safe than almost any other vehicle on the road. In fact, large SUVs are among the most dangerous vehicles on the road. Check out the latest safety reports on a site like safercar.gov. I could post the link but I'm on my lunch break and I don't feel like it.

3) Remember, the CR-V rear-ended your wife. Had it been reversed, it's very likely the results would have been reversed as well. Anytime you slam into a vehicle head-on it's dangerous, no matter what your driving. Your wife had a good 15 feet of metal between her and the CR-V to absorb the impact, while the girl in the CR-V had only a couple.

4) I really, really, REALLY believe people who drive big vehicles like the Suburban, Expedition or the Excursion should pay the gas guzzler tax regardless, and a luxury tax unless they can document a reason why they need one. I'd bet more than 95% of people out there who drive them don't really need them; they drive them for the same reason your wife drives one...it's the biggest vehicle you can buy. It's insane that people can use so much more of the world's resources, thereby penalizing everyone (including themselves). It's SO wasteful. Furthermore, if everyone bought SMALLER vehicles, we'd ALL be safer, even if that vehicle is an Escape.

dromedarius · March 2006

baggs:

Yes, you're right that most of the vehicles I listed are going away soon, but my point was they should have been gone a looonnnnggg time ago. My list was 100% accurate according to Ford's own website, and the fact those antiques are still being sold is what I was lamenting. The American car buying public deserves better, especially if they are going to go whining to Congress for handouts.

Also, thank you for clarifying your stance on CR. My point is that those people are every bit as credible as everyone else, and more than some. Too many people buy cars just because they can afford them (while ignoring things like their 401k or 529 college plans...but I digress), when making a car purchase is probably the second biggest purchase they'll ever make. They owe it to themselves to do a little research, and at least CR subscribers are doing that.

CR-V vs Escape

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