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Comments
Now, what was your TCO for those 7 years?
Steve, Host
$500 because I was dumb and got the distributor wet while cleaning out the engine bay. (Off-roading in the mud suddenly got expensive.)
2 new sets of wiper blades. What do those go for?
5 new tires. (4 replaced when they wore out. 1 replaced due to a gash in the sidewall.) I think those tires ran about $77 each.
Oil changes every 4-5K miles. Call it 25 changes at approx $33 bucks per change... $825.
I'd have to check my receipts for the cost of brake pad replacement. I changed the rear diff fluid twice. Plus air filters and other scheduled maintenance.
I averaged 25+ mpg over the life of the vehicle, so I probably killed about 4,560 dinosaurs. The price of dino juice has varied over the years, but if we used today's prices (my area) we're looking at 11,628 freakin' dollars.
Bought the rig for $19,500.
That doesn't include the costs for the two rear-enders as those were covered by insurance.
Roughly, yes. About how long Hyundai has been in any market and look at them now. Like I said, it doesn't take long anymore. Why do you think everyone is so worried about China now?
And Toyota would bring the total number of competitors in the field to four. The number of nameplates in the mid-size sedan market is something like three or four times that of the big truck market. And that market has been competitive since the dawn of the automobile.
The number of competitors in the mid-size car market is so big because companies like Ford and GM have multiple entries. The margin isn't so wide when you look at it that way.
Hyundai has been selling in the US for 20 years now. Anyone remember Hyundai Excel? What a POS it was.
The best they can do so far is to copy Accord's rear end and Camry's front end styling and call it their bread and butter warrior.
And they do it at a significantly lower price point, with a longer warranty, etc.
What exactly does a car from 20 years ago have to do with the brand today? Isn't that what many say here about domestic products? 20 (actually probably 30 or more) people said similar things about Honda vehicles.
Hyundai, IMHO is a formidable competitor to Honda.
From an article in USA Today. I guess those Hybrids aren't moving.
Last week, Ford announced nationwide zero-percent financing for its Escape Hybrid sport-utility vehicle. Mazda is offering an 0.9% annual percentage rate on some of its models, Toprak says.
Part of that article should have been about the Highlander Hybrid as well. Both it and the Escape Hybrid appear to be too high priced for many consumers right now and the incentives are starting to kick in. It was only a matter of time.
Note it's on regular 87 too. No mention that it will appear in the Escape as usual.
AFAIK Toyota isn't offering zero percent financing on any model.
AFAIK Toyota isn't offering zero percent financing on any model.
No they're not and I never said they were actually.
Speaking of Hybrids, found this one:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060413/auto_show_hybrids.html?.v=2
Seems you are right, the larger hybrids aren't selling. Buyers don't think they save enough. While the Civic Hybrid sales are up and now account for 8 percent of total Civic sales, Honda may cut production of the Accord Hybrid.
I find it interesting that someone keeps shouting to "buy American" yet doesn't think buying a "foreign" brand produced in the U.S. helps our economy.
Well "buying American" didn't help these people keep their jobs.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060413/ford_plant_closures.html?.v=8
Buying American Cars: What Does It Mean?
What will it take for consumers to buy American brands??
Let's stick with discussing the vehicles themselves here and leave the broader questions to those other forums.
tidester, host
the escape, as a daily driver, 14 mile one way commute is less than my same year focus, also a daily driver commute distance the same.
with all these owners that are concerned about 0-60, maybe they can try to get on an episode of 'PINKS'.
I hope this qualifies. Good thing they still don't use the slogan "Safety is Job 1".
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060413/ap_on_bi_ge/ford_recall_1
I thought that was "Quality is Job 1." But if quality is "conformance to customer requirements" and customers require safety then I suppose they are synonymous.
tidester, host
So, it ISN'T just the manual CR-V that can outrun an Escape (or keep up with, anyway). The auto did then, and with the added gear, should now too.
So, it ISN'T just the manual CR-V that can outrun an Escape (or keep up with, anyway). The auto did then, and with the added gear, should now too.
Thank you!
I am sure certain someone will just chuck it to the "Honda Conspiracy" anyway.
Yes it is. The sentence below is straight from the article.
Escapes without the side curtains have a harder material under the plastic trim piece and they need to soften it up for people who don't wear their seat belts. Furthermore the area in question can come into play in a frontal collision where the curtains won't even be deployed, standard or not.
"Ford said it encourages all drivers and passengers to wear seat belts and 'a belted occupant is not likely to contact the area of the vehicle that is in question.'"
I was too late to edit my last post so I'll amend it here. Somewhere along this conversation line I jumped off track and skipped a post. My last post was in reference to my original and does not really refute anything you said.
So yes, standard side curtains would have made the recall unnecessary (maybe this will open their eyes and make is so for the next MY). Side curtains however, do not save an unbelted person from banging his/her head off of a part of the frame which is my argument. Since peple who wear their seat belts are unlikely to strike the area in question side curtains matter not in the injury side of the equation.
Hopefully that was clearer!
In the TruckTrend article, they give the nod to the CR-V in terms of real world acceleration, as well measured tests. I don't have an exact quote, but they were talking about using the acceleration lane to merge onto a highway.
However, TT also did another comparo where they got 8.5 seconds out of a 4AT Escape. So, testing results will vary based on the vehicle and conditions.
Of course, in that 2nd comparo, they used a 5MT CR-V (good for 8.1 seconds) which was described as feeling like a V6.
Yes, but if it had anything to do with temp, the CR-V would have reflected a similar shift in numbers, since the CRV and Escape were tested together in the previously mentioned test (8.9, 9.0 sec). In like conditions, the CRV was a nip quicker.
Top 10 SUVs With the Lowest TCO for 2006
Steve, Host
Steve, Host
I'm waiting for a sliding door that starts at the driver's door; that would save a lot of parking lot door dings.
I really don't understand the "winged" doors.
Steve, Host
tidester, host
The winged doors are resented by the cars they have dented.
tidester, host
Did you read the article (this is rhetorical because obviously the answer is no)? Here is a quote from the article:
In government testing, NHTSA found that the SUVs had a head injury score along the driver's side roofline near the front pillar that was marginally above the maximum allowed under federal regulations.
Ford conducted its own testing and found "a significant compliance margin," but decided to conduct the recall "to avoid a protracted dispute with the agency," according to an April 3 letter to NHTSA.
Ford DISAGREES with the government's findings. They agreed to the recall "to avoid a protracted dispute with the agency". That is not being pro-active. Being pro-active is finding this problem in your own testing and voluntarily recalling your vehicles. That did not happen.
Once again the Ford folks are sweeping a serious safety problem with the Escape under the rug :sick: .
Thanks, I could go all day like that, I love rhyming chats.
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Ok, NOW I'm done.
TCO.. does this include any rebates, low APR that Ford offers and Honda never offers?? If not I bet the Escapes TCO would be even lower than the CRV.. AND.. looks like the Escape isn't as unreliable and troublesome as Honda clan wants so badly for people to believe...
Yeah, lets talk about sweeping things under the carpet. Can anyone say Combustable Recreational Vehicle... Honda did a great job in sweeping this under the carpet. Sure like how they changed the engine configuration.. in the 04 was it or 05? Get out on the net, there are still people having smelly issues..
Recall.. yep, read the whole thing.. there isn't even one claim for any of these issues. Failed to mention that too.. :P
"We take into account widely available manufacturer to customer cash rebates on new cars, which may result in a lower net cost of ownership. However, we do not account for other types of cash rebates or incentives due to the variability in the offers as well as the eligibility rules for such offers."
About TCO explains it in detail.
The main thing is that our TCO tool is a is a comparative tool, not a predictive tool. So your individual numbers may be better but it's a good way to compare operating costs between two or more cars.
Steve, Host
How does the Escape get to 60 mph in a 0-60 test??? Do they not redline it, even though it makes max power at the redline? Are the magazines all in some sort of conspiracy against the Escape??? Also, what is the rev limit on the Escape? The CR-V doesn't have any problem "redlining through the gears", especially since in a 0-60 test, that would be two gears. Maybe this is just a Ford thing...
PS - I guess I didn't realize a Duratec can't rev to the redline...if nothing else, someone should take Ford to court for false advertising. Does anyone know what the "real world" horsepower value for the Ford V6 is, since it sounds like 200 hp isn't really achievable??? Maybe that's why the i-VTEC outperforms it.
:P
I wonder if Scape2 would consider that a conspiracy as well?
Even the AUTOMATIC CR-V beats Escape to 60.
Please define how Ford tests their vehicles in 0-60 mph tests. Do they only rev them to 3000 RPM? As far as I know EVERY 0-60 test involves revving the engine to the max If Ford is affraid to rev it to redline, maybe there is a reason to it? Parts start falling off?
Yeah, lets talk about sweeping things under the carpet. Can anyone say Combustable Recreational Vehicle... Honda did a great job in sweeping this under the carpet. Sure like how they changed the engine configuration.. in the 04 was it or 05?
Once again, Honda did not change any engine configurations. They changed gasket suppliers for the oil filters. The engines are still the same. They did add dirve by wire in 2005 to allow for Vehicle Stability Control (which Ford still does not offer), which is only done at the throttle body, not the part involved with the engine fires (improper oil filter installation).
Anyone, even with minimal technical knowledge, would understand the root causes of the problems discussed here.
It becomes pretty sensless to explain over and over again simple things, like double gasketing will cause a filter to leak oil. Leaking hot oil will catch on fire, regardless of the make and model.
Or that a 2.4 liter 4 cylinder engine outperforms a 3.0 liter V6 in every test, whether manual or auto, not because of some conspiracy, but because of its superior design.
It is difficult to explain that every acceleration test requires for the tester to wring the engine out. now whether the engine can take the beating and survive is another story. Honda seems to make engines that can be taken to the redline at 5000 miles or 300,000 miles.
If Escape such a great reliable car, why would one want to get out of it only 60,000 miles into it? People who own trouble free cars usually hang on to them for years. I still have my 1988 Honda Prelude, still starts and runs, even after sitting in the unheated garage through Buffalo winter, year after year. There are other people on this board with Hondas that have over 150,000-200,000 miles and still doing what are designed to do; start and run. Maybe they are part of the conpiracy too?
Have a good day, sir.
I'm not sure how you say Honda swept anything under the rug; our dealer was upfront with us and gave us no problems, buyuing back the car for $800 less than we paid for it new, and that was after 18 months and 35,000 miles. We were so satisfied, in fact, that we bought another Honda, and are now on number 17 or 18 since 1982.
Oh, and I don't think you want to use the word combustable; it's like throwing a stone from Ford's glass house.
Wow.
Do you understand how a recall works? Do you think YOUR government would not recall a vehicle that had a design issue that caused it to catch on fire? The government investigated the CR-V for the fire issue and found no cause for a recall. Oh that's right, this goes back to your conspiracy theory. The US government deliberately did nothing about a vehicle from a Japanese company that bursts in to flames. Yeah right.
Unlike with the CR-V, the government investigated the Escape and found a reason to issue a recall. Who cares if no claims have been filed.
Ahhh, Denial.....
Not that it's critical or anything, but the haiku poem form doesn't necessarily rhyme. Usually it doesn't. It's based on the number of lines and specific line formats.