CR-V vs Escape

baggs32 · April 2006

IIRC Ford did invent the split rear hatch design with the Explorer of old (early nineties I think). Took progressive Honda a long time to catch up I'd say!

Is the new CR-V rear hatch even split where the glass can open separately? I would think it is given that the side opener had separate glass. An annoying necessity in the first gen (had to open the glass first to open the bottom door) but a convenience in the second.

drive62 · April 2006

Looks like a smaller MDX with a sloping roof line. Funny, since the current MDX looks like a bigger CR-V. So what does this mean? Not much but assuming this is the next CR-V, it looks like a Honda.

drive62 · April 2006

Looks like that outside spare and stupid side swinging rear door are gone finally. Those molded bumps on the rear bumper look very familiar too.

Stupid? Says who? Someone who doesn't own one?? That carries a lot of weight.

thegraduate · April 2006

IIRC Ford did invent the split rear hatch design with the Explorer of old (early nineties I think).

You do recall correctly...it debuted on the 1991 Explorer (in 1990).

anythngbutgm · April 2006

Not at the moment. The Gen 1 had the fold up glass and swing out door. The latest has a full door like the RAV4.

I prefer the clamshell setup of the Element... or the X5, XC90.

anythngbutgm · April 2006

I think they are both 5 speeders. The difference probably lies in the V6 doesn't have to work as hard to move the vehicle opposed to the 4 cylinder. I think the V6 city mileage is something like 21 and the 4-cylinder is 23. But out on the highway, the mileage is in favor for the V6.

baggs32 · April 2006

The latest has a full door like the RAV4.

Right, but the glass can still be opened separately right?

baggs32 · April 2006

Stupid? Says who? Someone who doesn't own one?? That carries a lot of weight.

No I don't own one and never have. However I have loaded and unloaded things from a family member's 2001 CR-V and I think that swinging door is, yes, stupid. It gets in the way just about every time. I much prefer a hatch because it will practically open by itself which is great when your hands are full of two kids and some groceries plus it keeps you out of the rain when folding up the double stroller in the mall parking lot.

The side door is of zero benefit to me personally and was a big factor in our choice of the Escape over the CR-V when we shopped them a few years ago.

stevedebi · April 2006

"IIRC Ford did invent the split rear hatch design with the Explorer of old (early nineties I think).

You do recall correctly...it debuted on the 1991 Explorer (in 1990)."

Nope. I don't know who introduced it, but this was standard equipment in all station wagons in the 1960's and 1970's. Ford resurrected it in 1991 for the Explorer.

thegraduate · April 2006

Yes, in such wagons at the Country Squire...I was referring to SUVs...I don't believe the original Cherokee or Broncos had such a split window/hatch.

baggs32 · April 2006

A lot of station wagons I remember riding in the back of, un-belted and wrestling with friends :surprise:, had a power window on the rear door that went down into the door rather than the pop-up type you see today.

Come to think of it, most of the rear doors on those beasts opened sideways instead of up. And they weighed a ton too! Now all our kids have to do is push a button to get the hatch open. How boring. :sick:

scape2 · April 2006

Gee, then why didn't the "progressive car company" do this in the remodel in 2001/2 model years??? The swinging open rear hatch with the spare on the back has always been a weakness in the CRV..

thegraduate · April 2006

The swinging open rear hatch with the spare on the back has always been a weakness in the CRV..

Different strokes for different folks, scape.

We much preferred our swinging door from our 2002 CR-V to our raising hatch in our 2000 Odyssey. I doubt we'd consider the new CR-V because it now has the raising hatch, too. I doubt it would have the clearance needed to be opened in our garage like our CRV's swinger did.

baggs32 · April 2006

I doubt we'd consider the new CR-V because it now has the raising hatch, too. I doubt it would have the clearance needed to be opened in our garage like our CRV's swinger did.

I've never been in your garage (at least not that you know of :P ) but I do know that ours is 80 years old and not built to today's standards. We could easily open the Escape's hatch even with the garage door closed. We cannont do the same with the Explorer unfortunately but the glass opens no problem.

I would think the '07 CR-V's hatch would be easily opened in a more modern garage but YMMV.

blueiedgod · April 2006

No I don't own one and never have. However I have loaded and unloaded things from a family member's 2001 CR-V and I think that swinging door is, yes, stupid. It gets in the way just about every time. I much prefer a hatch because it will practically open by itself which is great when your hands are full of two kids and some groceries plus it keeps you out of the rain when folding up the double stroller in the mall parking lot.

The side door is of zero benefit to me personally and was a big factor in our choice of the Escape over the CR-V when we shopped them a few years ago.

We have both the Escape and the CR-V. When you unload groceries from the Escape you have to lift your arms up with the bags in them to close the hatch. While, I can do it, because I lift weights and having grocery bags in my hands is nothing to lift them up to reach the hatch to slam it down, it is MUCH MUCH easier to just slam the side openning door with grocery bags in your hands. She just uses HIP ACTION to slam the door shut when she has groceries in her hands. Try slamming the hatch with your hips when your hands are holding grocery bags.

blueiedgod · April 2006

Gee, then why didn't the "progressive car company" do this in the remodel in 2001/2 model years??? The swinging open rear hatch with the spare on the back has always been a weakness in the CRV..

See post above.

dromedarius · April 2006

The hatch works just fine on my CR-V. It has opened and closed successfully everytime. I'm not sure why you consider this weakness, then...

Also, if change is weakness, why did Ford change the 4WD system on the Escape??? Was there something wrong with the previous one? Was it contributing to all of the rollovers, wheels coming off, accelerator sticking, engine starting on fire, etc., etc., which have all been WELL documented???

:confuse:

thegraduate · April 2006

Yeah, problem is, we have a split level house, which means only a half-length garage. It took a LOT of careful planning before we got our Odyssey (we needed the van, but it barely fit in the garage at all). With the CR-V's side door, we could open it maybe 20 degrees without it hitting the garage door, slide in, get out a backback, groceries, et.al.. and close it back. Can't do the same thing with a vertical hatch (raise it twenty degrees gets you just as close to the garage door, but without the access to the cargo. Thus, no unloading the new CRV without the garage door open.

ACtually, our Odyssey had to be unloaded OUTSIDE, because the hatch would hit the garage door itself

drive62 · April 2006

You didn't specifically mention the engine stalling. One of the Escape's numerous documented problems. I don't know if they ever figured it out. I'd hate to be driving a vehicle that may just die at any time. Doesn't really matter which way the hatch opens when your vehicle dies in the middle of a highway.

stevedebi · April 2006

"A lot of station wagons I remember riding in the back of, un-belted and wrestling with friends , had a power window on the rear door that went down into the door rather than the pop-up type you see today.

Come to think of it, most of the rear doors on those beasts opened sideways instead of up. And they weighed a ton too! Now all our kids have to do is push a button to get the hatch open. How boring."

I was waiting for someone else to notice the difference. Yes, the glass slid into the door instead of popping up. I consider sliding into the door to be superior.

The doors in those station wagons opened either down OR sideways, whichever way you wanted to open it. This feature was reanimated with the Honda Ridgeline, and is a very functional and cool feature.

drive62 · April 2006

One of my father's several 60's Chevy wagons (Honda, Toyota and Datsun were still in their infancy in the US, he had yet to give up the domestics) like you say the tailgate opened sideways and down like a pick up truck. I think most of them in that era did that. And yes the glass slid down; turning the key a certain way did it IIRC. Being the youngest I was always relegated to the "back back" as we called it. I enjoyed it but thinking back on it, it wasn't very safe.

baggs32 · April 2006

You didn't specifically mention the engine stalling. One of the Escape's numerous documented problems. I don't know if they ever figured it out.

They did. A recall was issued to fix it about three years ago.

stevedebi · April 2006

"Being the youngest I was always relegated to the "back back" as we called it. I enjoyed it but thinking back on it, it wasn't very safe."

Well, for most collisions it wasn't that bad. IIRC, those seats faced backwards, which would have help stop the kids in a forward accident. But in general I agree, it was a bit dangerous. Not that I ever heard of an incident in which the "back back" passengers were injured...

baggs32 · April 2006

You were also surrounded by a truck frame and what seemed like tons of sheet metal and chrome. Those rear doors were about two feet thick too.

I'm sure there's a good reason why we don't see seats like that anymore though.

explorerx4 · April 2006

hey baggs...
while the cr-v owners were arguing with the escape owners about the rear access, honda was listening and agreed with us.

dromedarius · April 2006

And Ford is planning on discontinuing the Escape...what does that say???

:confuse:

explorerx4 · April 2006

if they do, they will introduce another vehicle that will also outsell the cr-v?

dromedarius · April 2006

Are they going to offer huge rebates and questionable reliability, or are they going to fix that???

:surprise:

thegraduate · April 2006

Yes they will, with $2,000 checks in the glovebox like they do now?

explorerx4 · April 2006

took the escape in for 25k service today. oil change and tire rotation. they tried to get me for an air filter and fuel filter. the air filter looked dirty, when when i said 'wasn't the fuel filter changed at 15k?', the sa looked at some papers and said 'oh yeah, i missed that'.
it did need an air filter, so i had then put that in ($20 installed).
regarding rebates, etc... after the rebate, the cr-v ex and escape xlt are pretty close pricewise.

scape2 · April 2006

UH, did you forget, engine fires were and still are the CRV??.... :P

scape2 · April 2006

Here we go again.. Why is it ok to bring up issues that are 3-4 years old now? Yes, they solved the stalling issues on the Escape/Tribute years ago. At least Ford solved the problem.. unlike the Fire issues with the CRV..
Swept that one under the rug really fast, great PR job by Honda.. if have to say..

scape2 · April 2006

"And Ford is planning on discontinuing the Escape...what does that say??? "

Once again a Honda clan member with wrong information.. Spreading rumors and stories..Escape is NOT being discontinued...

scape2 · April 2006

Yes, I can hold a bag of groceries and reach up and pull my hatch down in my garage, with my Escape.
Sure would like to see CRV owners unload parked parallel between two cars.. not going to happen we all know this.
Second, why is it if this design is so superior would Honda change it? After all it is a "progressive" company is it? Fact is the IIHS crashtests with the rear bumper, glass imploding inward on impact stories have caught up with Honda. They are on the net in other chat rooms where people have been rear ended and its not a pretty story. Yes, you can quote crash test ratings all day long, but the rear mounted spare just doesn't work, along with a swinging gate..
Also, noticed how the CRV group tried to sweep under the carpet how the TCO of the Escape is right behind the CRV. Guess they now have to stop spreading misinformation on how unreliable and bad quality the Escape is, since the evidence is staring them right in the face that says otherwise.. :P

dromedarius · April 2006

Also, noticed how the CRV group tried to sweep under the carpet how the TCO of the Escape is right behind the CRV.

NUMERICALLY, as in 1-10, it is right behind the CR-V. It's still $2,000 behind, though. That's like saying I finish the race two laps ahead of you and you are "right" behind me. I only got through Calc 2 back in my undergrad days; regardless, $2,000 is $2,000.

tidester · April 2006

I only got through Calc 2 back in my undergrad days; regardless, $2,000 is $2,000.

Well, that's your problem! You have to get all the way through Calc 3 to fully appreciate the nuance and subtlety.

tidester, host

dromedarius · April 2006

Doh! Although in my defense, $2,000 may as well be a million dollars until I get another raise.

explorerx4 · April 2006

in connecticut, you pay property tax based on the 'nada' value. this can be way out of whack, but it costs real money.

tidester · April 2006

Ouch! And aren't gas prices there well above the national average too?

tidester, host

explorerx4 · April 2006

i posted in interesting breakdown of the cost of gas in connecticut over on 'report your local gas prices'.

tidester · April 2006

Great report - thanks!

tidester, host

scape2 · April 2006

$2,000 easily made up in lower price for Escape, lower APR offered AND rebates... :P

dromedarius · April 2006

No, because it already includes the price and the rebates. As for APR, that depends on your credit. So again, no it isn't easily made up.

sky23213 · April 2006

You forgot the "Scratch and Save" we all received from Ford. Would that be a rebate, or TCOR (TCO Reduction) :P.
How did I receive it? As an insert with my vehicle registration renewal, sent from the State DMV/DVS. As mentioned earlier here, Ford needs all the help they could get. Sad...

blueiedgod · May 2006

Yes, I can hold a bag of groceries and reach up and pull my hatch down in my garage, with my Escape.
Sure would like to see CRV owners unload parked parallel between two cars.. not going to happen we all know this.
Second, why is it if this design is so superior would Honda change it? After all it is a "progressive" company is it? Fact is the IIHS crashtests with the rear bumper, glass imploding inward on impact stories have caught up with Honda. They are on the net in other chat rooms where people have been rear ended and its not a pretty story. Yes, you can quote crash test ratings all day long, but the rear mounted spare just doesn't work, along with a swinging gate..
Also, noticed how the CRV group tried to sweep under the carpet how the TCO of the Escape is right behind the CRV. Guess they now have to stop spreading misinformation on how unreliable and bad quality the Escape is, since the evidence is staring them right in the face that says otherwise..

If you are all about the truth, what about Escape's:

Wheels falling off?

Doors openning during cornering?

Hatch latches not working and openning upon acceleration?

Wiper motors catching on fire?

Prematurely Corroding suspension parts?

...

And most importantly, Escape's inability to beat CR-V to 60 in manual or Automatic form and inability to match CR-V's fuel economy?

blueiedgod · May 2006

$2,000 easily made up in lower price for Escape, lower APR offered AND rebates...

Comparable equipped Escape shows over and over to be more expensive (including the rebate) than comparable equipped CR-V.

Doesn't onw only get the rebate or low finance rate with Ford, NOT BOTH?

stever · May 2006

I've seen it both ways, but most often you can't combine incentives. Right now the $2,000 Escape Customer Cash incentive can not be combined with 0.0% - 5.9% APR in my zip code per the Incentives & Rebates page.

Steve, Host

drive62 · May 2006

Gee I guess I'll tell you for (at least) the HUNDRETH time.

The CR-V fires were caused by technician error.

Unlike the Escape and it's stalling engine, the CR-V had no recall related to the fire issue.

I know, it was all a conspiracy.

anythngbutgm · May 2006

Wiper motors catching fire? I thought it was faulty fuel lines that could spark and catch fire. Maybe it was both

Wheels falling off? How long has America been building automobiles? C'mon the lessons have been learned 10x over and yet you couldn't even count on the wheels staying on

:mad: ... But those problems happened long ago so they really aren't relevant to the current product.

It really is too bad the Escape twins had such a rough launch, you'd think they were reincarnations of the Chevy Citation given the rate that the recalls appeared... and for such stupid stuff. They ride and drive quite well, and for a 5 year old design, I think its held up pretty well.

It certainly isn't a Cheapuinox which is a nast little turd wrapped in a pretty wrapper. THAT thing is atrocious, makes a Ford Escape seem built like a Benz in comparison.

thegraduate · May 2006

Yes, I can hold a bag of groceries and reach up and pull my hatch down in my garage, with my Escape.

That's nice, and it works for you, which is good. The point I've tried to make, which is seemingly ignored from certain folks, is that different hatch designs appeal to different people. We cannot open any kind of hatch (other than a Honda Fit, probably!) in our garage due to the fact that we have a split level house, and our hatch doesn't clear the garage door. With the side-open door of the 2002-current CR-V, we could open the door slightly (maybe 20-30 degrees, slide in and get whatever we needed out of the back...flipping the glass was no problem either if we were pulled in far enough...but no normal hatch would work for us.

I DO understand its benefits AND its flaws, but when my folks park in a deck for work and a garage at home, there's not really a worry about what happens when you paralell park.

CR-V vs Escape

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