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CR-V vs Escape

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Comments

  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    I won't buy a new one, that's for sure. It's like buying previously viewed DVDs at my local movie place. Why not buy a new one for the same price, i.e., Hondas, modern design w/modern technology. Like disc brakes all-around, side and curtain airbags standard, as w/stability and traction control. Fords are a pretty good value used because of their poor resale, though. Like picking up a DVD at a garage sale. I have a right to my opinion...right? :confuse:
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    I have a right to my opinion...right?

    Right, which is exactly why I'm not going to argue with you on this. However, I will clear the air for others if your opinion is stated as fact.

    Hondas, modern design w/modern technology.

    You've seen the new Pilot right? I'm not sure I've ever read any review, professional or amateur, where it was stated that Honda's (and Acura's) designs are modern. Maaaybe the Civic, but the rest of the lineup is pretty average by any standard.

    Like disc brakes all-around, side and curtain airbags standard, as w/stability and traction control.

    The Escape had discs all around until last year. No one quite knows why they changed it (probably penny pinching) but performance hasn't suffered and that's what's important. There's nothing wrong with drum brakes as long as they work well.

    Side and curtain airbags as well as TC and AdvanceTrac with RSC are all standard for '09 in the Escape. In fact, all of the biggest complaints against the Escape from professional reviewers have been addressed in the '09 model. When is Honda going to address the biggest complaint about the CR-V? Hint: it lies under the hood.
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    Side and curtain airbags as well as TC and AdvanceTrac with RSC are all standard for '09 in the Escape. In fact, all of the biggest complaints against the Escape from professional reviewers have been addressed in the '09 model.

    So four years after the fact. My '05 CR-V had all those standard which was the primary reason I chose it over the Escape.

    When is Honda going to address the biggest complaint about the CR-V? Hint: it lies under the hood.

    I don't see them ever putting a V6 under the hood of the CR-V. It sounds like they might put their stellar 2.2 diesel there, though. :shades:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I don't see them ever putting a V6 under the hood of the CR-V. It sounds like they might put their stellar 2.2 diesel there, though.

    Having just had my first ever $50 fillup in my Accord, I bet you're right. Top CUV sales status says they won't either.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    I totally agree. From now through the foreseeable future, fuel economy will trump power for the majority of auto buyers.

    I have to believe that the auto manufacturers are scrambling right now to bring out more efficient versions of existing models. :)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Yep. How much faster do we need to go, anyway? 9 to 10 seconds to 60mph is plenty for me. My 8-second to 60 4-cyl Accord feels downright fast.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Top CUV sales status says they won't either.

    Let me remind you that the Escape was the top seller for a while and Ford did little to change it. Now it is no longer the top seller and they are changing things. So you think Honda will let the CR-V wither on the vine too then?
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    It sounds like they might put their stellar 2.2 diesel there, though.

    Ahhh the diesel. I too once thought that was the answer but what I've been reading about it lately says otherwise. Diesel fuel is $1+ more per gallon than regular unleaded around here so the savings are minimal at best. That's before you factor in the higher purchase price of a diesel equipped vehicle. It also seems that producing more diesel to meet rising demand isn't a matter of flipping a switch at the refinery. Apparently they would have to upgrade the facilities which would in turn raise the price even more.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    So you think Honda will let the CR-V wither on the vine too then?

    Nope, but the CR-V is hardly withering at 2 years old. They have undergone powertrain changes every two or three years. In 1999 or 2000, they added 20hp. In 2002, they replaced a 2.0L with a torquier and more powerful 2.4L. In 2005, they swapped a 4-speed auto for a 5-speed. In 2007, they added 10 horses and upped fuel economy.

    2.0L 126hp 4speed (1997)
    2.0L 146hp 4speed (1999)
    2.4L 156hp 4speed (2002)
    2.4L 156hp 5speed (2005)
    2.4L 166hp 5speed (2007)

    You'll see a MMC at 2010, and a FMC at 2012 or so.

    Ford went waaaay too long without changing any noticeable components. In fact, three generations of CR-V existed in one model cycle of Escape. Below are 2001 and 2007 Escapes and CR-Vs. See how much things changed on one end and not another? Yes, I know the Escape got a mild refresh for 08, but the components are still the same, 8 years later.

    Having a V6 isn't necessary for small CUV buyers as the overwhelming CR-V sales, and vehicles like the hot new Nissan Rogue are proving. Leave a V6 in the Flex; it needs one. A large-displacement I4 is plenty for most people. For those that aren't satisfied, the RAV4, Outlander, and Escape V6 exist. Sales are showing that many are in-fact satisfied, however.

    image
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  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    You are correct that producing more diesel isn't just a flip of the switch but the price is also a reflection of the seasonal rise and fall of diesel. It's higher now but it'll be lower this winter and it all averages out in the end. Enough to counteract the original price? I don't know. It should easily be more economically feasible than the Escape Hybrid, though. Plus, it will certainly have ALL the power anyone needs to have out of a small SUV to out-tow any V6 available in the segment.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Plus, it will certainly have ALL the power anyone needs to have out of a small SUV to out-tow any V6 available in the segment.

    Unfortunately for the CR-V, and the other small SUVs, power is not the limiting factor in it's towing capabilities. The towing numbers likely won't change much but might finally match those of the V6 models.

    It should easily be more economically feasible than the Escape Hybrid, though.

    Why is that? I'm not trying to be a jerk. I really want to know. ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I was about to jump in and say the same thing about the CR-V's towing. It's not the power that is the problem. You beat me to it. :)

    It should easily be more economically feasible than the Escape Hybrid, though.

    Why is that? I'm not trying to be a jerk. I really want to know.


    I'm guessing he's thinking it'll be cheaper to buy and run in the long run. As of right now, though, we don't know the pricing for a diesel Honda in America. We also don't know what battery replacement will cost for the Escape a few years down the road.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "toyota only redesigns the camry platform every 10-12 years, they change the body and everyone thinks it is all new. obviously they have good design to start with, but it really isn't so different from other manufacturers. a lot of it is perception."

    As it happens I owned a 1994 Camry and a 1997 Camry. They were completely different. I suppose the engine and transmission may have been the same, but the body and interior were new. And of course the 1992 Camry was also new.

    Similarly, the 2001-2002 CR-V was a complete change, and the 2006-1007 CR-V was a complete change.

    My own observation is that the Japanese manufacturers do a complete change every 5 years, with a minor refresh in the middle.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204
    i swear i read that somewhere, but 6 years later i can't find it, so i'll cry uncle!
    after all these years, i still think the escape body design was done right and didn't need a lot of changes. of course, there is still a lot of room for improvement in other areas. my wife is talking about getting a hybrid version next year. our current one would be passed onto one of the kids.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    It should easily be more economically feasible than the Escape Hybrid, though.

    Why is that? I'm not trying to be a jerk. I really want to know.


    I'm guessing he's thinking it'll be cheaper to buy and run in the long run. As of right now, though, we don't know the pricing for a diesel Honda in America. We also don't know what battery replacement will cost for the Escape a few years down the road.

    Correct. The price premium for the FEH is ~ 3k. Diesels in general (look around) run about an extra 2k. You can buy a LOT of extra fuel for a $1000, although a diesel CR-V should better the FEH in fuel economy based on the adjusted European numbers. Not to mention the simplicity and durability of a diesel vs. the prospect of battery replacement, as thegraduate pointed out.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    i still think the escape body design was done right and didn't need a lot of changes. of course, there is still a lot of room for improvement in other areas.

    Very true. The Escape has always been a handsome, if rather bland-looking vehicle; one that really shouldn't turn any people off (unlike the new radical CR-V design). They could have made other adjustments though, at least a 5-speed auto for the engines which would help usable power a great deal, and fuel economy as well. Another personal gripe was the interior was pretty tired after 6 or 7 years, although the basic design was still just fine. Below is a 2006 model. They never had overwhelmingly good quality (something I think most would agree the CR-V has mastered).

    image
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    My issues w/the Escape were and always have been:

    1) No real commitment to safety. I don't think standard safety features on most vehicles should require a premium. I was told by a salesman that the reason I was having trouble finding an Escape w/side and curtain airbags is customers didn't feel like they needed them. Well, three years and 46,000 miles later neither have I and I pray I never will but I won't purchase another family vehicle w/o them.

    2) No real commitment to a 4 cylinder engine. I felt and still feel the 4 cylinder was offered to push people into a V6. A four is more than enough for the vast majority of us and even the most ardent Ford supporters would have trouble defending the pathetic 2.3 the Escape had up until a year or two ago.

    3) No major model changes. It is impossible, w/all the upgrades in safety, body structure, material upgrades, etc., that a design penned in the late 90s can be competitive w/competion from the past year or two. Ford, in its shortsightedness, is more concerned w/current amortization than their future market share and they are paying cost, dearly.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    No real commitment to safety. I don't think standard safety features on most vehicles should require a premium. I was told by a salesman that the reason I was having trouble finding an Escape w/side and curtain airbags is customers didn't feel like they needed them.

    This has always been the option model for the big 3 though. You could still get all your airbags as an option if you wanted them. If you didn't want them, then you didn't have to pay for them. You were not paying a premium for them either and Honda did raise the price of the CR-V when they added those standard airbags. You paid roughly the same price for them in both vehicles.

    That being said, Ford did announce that they are moving away from that old a la carte model and into one more like Honda's. The Flex is the first to follow the new model and it will be offered in 3 trims with far fewer options than Ford is traditionally known to offer because most of them are standard now. The drawback, just like with Honda, is that the base prices for the individual trim levels are higher than they would have been under the old model due to the added standard equipment.

    No major model changes. It is impossible, w/all the upgrades in safety, body structure, material upgrades, etc., that a design penned in the late 90s can be competitive w/competion from the past year or two.

    But it has been competitive. Don't expect to see anything dramatic over the next couple of years either as it looks highly likely that the European Ford Kuga will be the next Escape in 2010 or 2011.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    But it has been competitive.

    Not when comparing acceleration to fuel economy, which is a BIG part of the buying equation, for me anyway - sort of a "how much go do I get for my dough" idea. These days, that'll put the hurt on sales. A 4-cylinder CR-V (20/27) has no problem running with a V6 Escape (18/24).
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    This has always been the option model for the big 3 though. You could still get all your airbags as an option if you wanted them. If you didn't want them, then you didn't have to pay for them. You were not paying a premium for them either and Honda did raise the price of the CR-V when they added those standard airbags. You paid roughly the same price for them in both vehicles.

    But I'm saying I couldn't even find an Escape w/airbags when I was shopping in the spring of '05. I understand that I am paying for the airbags in a Honda, but they have also largely amortized the costs, the same approach Ford takes w/their entire vehicle, the problem being Honda's approach is very forward thinking and Ford's is very backward. It's like when Henry Ford said you could get a Model T in any color you liked, as long as it was black...very myopic for someone so visionary. True, he saved a few bucks but he also lost his virtual monopoly. Spend a little up front to make a lot on the back end.

    You bring up a good point w/your a la carte statement. I think this is a problem for the domestic manufacturers. They want to provide every option independent of others but it's hard to find exactly the ones we want anyway. The result is customers still don't get what they want along w/higher manufacturing costs. I actually prefer Toyota to Honda because they a) make the safety equipment standard and b) don't smother me w/options I probably won't get anyway.

    :sick:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The result is customers still don't get what they want along w/higher manufacturing costs. I actually prefer Toyota to Honda because they a) make the safety equipment standard and b) don't smother me w/options I probably won't get anyway.

    Do you have that backwards? Toyota's option packages can be maddening, not being able to get certain equipment in certain areas of the country (last year finding VSC on a Camry in the south was a nightmare). Honda has a one-for-all philosophy, especially on safety. Just pick your trim and go, all safety features on a low-end model are on the top-end one, nowadays.
  • dromedariusdromedarius Member Posts: 307
    Yes, I flipped them! :blush: I hate Toyota's option packages. We may or may not be in the market for a new minivan next year but besides being a Hondaphite the Sienna's option packages may keep me from ever wanting one.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    But I'm saying I couldn't even find an Escape w/airbags when I was shopping in the spring of '05.

    We bought our '05 in '04 and had not problem finding one with all the air bags. It was a Limited though so that might have had something to do with it.

    the problem being Honda's approach is very forward thinking and Ford's is very backward.

    Was backward (in your opinion). As I mentioned, they are changing that. Go price a Flex on their site (they just added it to the official lineup on their real site) and you'll see that it is priced and packaged very Honda-like now. The rest are supposed to follow the same pattern very soon. They finally realized that they can save a ton of money by simplifying the mfr process, but you can still order one the way you want if that's your cup of tea.

    They want to provide every option independent of others but it's hard to find exactly the ones we want anyway.

    How true. Then the dealers practically make you buy one of their lot to get the best deals and you end up having to settle for something you maybe didn't want, or live without something you did want. I know that the dealers are catering to the masses when they order for their stock, but I've always found it hard to find the exact car I wanted. I've always ended up getting more than I wanted because I always want something that they only order with the higher end trims that have everything under the sun in them too.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204
    i think that interior is user friendly, not too many buttons. just about anyone can get in it and figure out how things work pretty quickly. anyways, to each their own!
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Indeed. As I said before the basic design isn't flawed, but the implementation could've stood to be updated, with better materials. I actually think the old design seems more user friendly than the new Escapes, but I haven't had seat time in the 08.

    All being said, the Escape was built to a price point, and served its purpose well for many years.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204
    "the Escape was built to a price point" and the cr-v isn't? :confuse:
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The CR-V just doesn't show it as obviously, in my opinion.

    If Ford wasn't cash strapped with what they could put into the Escape, I'd imagine they'd have made more upgrades to the quality and design/style, as in the CR-V.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204
    imo, pretty much every cr-v redesign got more escape-like and to my eye the interior has seemed too gimicky or odd. the latest iteration seems to be a puffed up civic wagon. people do seem to like it, based on how many i see.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    "every cr-v redesign got more escape-like ...
    the latest iteration seems to be a puffed up civic wagon"


    "escape-like: a puffed up civic wagon"
    is that what you intended to say ??? :surprise:
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204
    over time honda adopted some of the features like the top hinged rear hatch, removed spare from same.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Yep, sounds like Honda copied Ford's 7 year old design based on that. Haha

    Honda's CR-V now has similarities with it's big brother, the Pilot, in that regard. Just because the escape has the regular hatch, doesn't mean the Escape was the reason.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    You could then argue that the Pilot is that way because the Explorer was. The Explorer was the first SUV with the separate glass opening. Before that the glass powered down. I always liked that and don't understand why the Explorer's version won out in the end. :confuse:
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 234,725
    I remember 4Runners having power rear glass.. a long time ago... I'd guess all the way back to the '80s?

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  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    That's the exact vehicle I was thinking of too. I saw one recently and it reminded me of how nice that feature was. I also remember many of those giant station wagons from the 70's and 80's having the same feature. As a little kid in those decades nothing was more fun than riding in the bed of a pickup to the ball game or riding in the back of my friend's parent's Chevy Caprice Classic wagon, facing the wrong way of course, with that glass down. Good times. :shades:
  • myk384myk384 Member Posts: 9
    these two suvs are competing with each other but the crv sells well. in it's 2002 version it has 3rd row seat while the escape had v6 version but none of these won any awards
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204
    maybe they are not the same as sold in the 'states'?
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • vg33e powervg33e power Member Posts: 314
    What about those old Jeep Wagoneers, that date back to the late 70's with the manual outside crank to roll down the rear glass on the "hatch" for lack of a better term, because I believe they opened up like a regular truck tailgate. In fact if I faintly remember as a child I had to wait for someone to roll down the glass before opening up the "hatch/tailgate" otherwise the glass would be exposed to damage. LOL!
  • chuckfromlichuckfromli Member Posts: 249
    Looking for a new mid size SUV in about six weeks. Presently own a Toyota and a Nissan and am pleased with the reliabilty of both. My last Ford was a '93 Aerostar, bought new, and I was not so pleased with the reliability.

    It looks like the Escape/Mariner have some features I want: external temperature (don't ask my why, I just like it), compass (I find it invaluable sometimes), and a rear glass window that lifts up (for occasionally carrying something long from Home Depot or to the dump). Believe it or not, you can't get both the compass and/or thermometer on the Toyota or the Honda. Also, the glass is fixed on both-it doesn't open.

    Just wondered if other buyers compared these cars and what they thought about comfort, build quality, repair bills, etc. I plan on keeping the vehicle for several years. I want to be as patriotic as the next guy, but I don't want to be taken by a junky car that falls apart as soon as the warranty is up, or even before he warranty is up, as I was with my '93 Ford (remember, quality was job 1 back then, LOL) and my '98 and '01 Pontiac Montanas.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    I want to be as patriotic as the next guy,

    Well, first off, you need to decide who do you support more. The engineers, assembly line people and generally wroking class, or the super rich executives?

    Do you want to support the company that ships jobs outside of the US so that they appear more profitable on the balance sheets and the executives get fatter bonuses on top of their multi million dollar salaries paid for by the bail out monies?

    Or, do you want to suport companies that create jobs in the US for engineers, assembly line people, janitors, maintenance people, and have capped their executive pay to a reasonable proportion to the lowest paid company employee?

    The easiest is to look at the VIN number of the vehicle you are looking at, and see where it was made.

    Good luck.
  • vg33e powervg33e power Member Posts: 314
    First digit of the VIN says it all:

    1 = USA
    2 = CANADA
    3 = MEXICO
    4 = USA
    5 = USA
    S = GREAT BRITAIN
    J = JAPAN
    K = KOREA

    anyone want to add?
  • chuckfromlichuckfromli Member Posts: 249
    Not sure what it is you're trying to say. Are you saying to disregard the parent corporation (GM, Chrysler, Ford) because they ship jobs overseas? It's amazing to realize how many Chryslers and Fords are built overseas, even in Mexico. Whereas many 'Japanese" cars are assembled here. My Sienna was assembled in Kansas.
    Anyway, obviously I am interested in helping my fellow citizens, if possible, and not the fat cats.
    I think the cars I am most interested in, the RAV4 and the CRV are both made in Japan. But I am considering an Escape/Mariner/Tribute also. I think those 3 are made in the U.S.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    Not sure what it is you're trying to say. Are you saying to disregard the parent corporation (GM, Chrysler, Ford) because they ship jobs overseas? It's amazing to realize how many Chryslers and Fords are built overseas, even in Mexico. Whereas many 'Japanese" cars are assembled here. My Sienna was assembled in Kansas.
    Anyway, obviously I am interested in helping my fellow citizens, if possible, and not the fat cats.
    I think the cars I am most interested in, the RAV4 and the CRV are both made in Japan. But I am considering an Escape/Mariner/Tribute also. I think those 3 are made in the U.S.


    My poiint is exactly, that if you feel the need to support this country, then you support the companies that pgenerate jobs here, rather than ship them elsewhere so that corporate fat cats can get more fat.

    By the way, CR-V IS MADE IN THE USA, I am sure RAV4 is too. Check the VIN numbers when looking at cars.

    By the way, Escape/Tribute/Mariner was designed by Mazda, not Ford. So was the Fusion.

    I understand your concern about the parent corporations, however, corporate stock holders can be anywhere in the world. It just happens that right now GM/Chrysler majority of stock holders are the US taxpayers. But, many of the Honda and Toyota stocks are owned by US based pension and retirement funds, as well as individual traders.

    So, if you hear someone saying that they "want the profits to stay here" they are full of BS!!! Profits go to whoever holds the stock in form of dividends...
  • vg33e powervg33e power Member Posts: 314
    CR-V is made in either Japan...VIN code J or Great Britain VIN code S and inported here. RAV-4 is made in Japan only and imported here. Escape and Mariner are made here in the USA and Tribute is made in Japan and imported here. Powertrains for the trio are a hybrid of parts from Ford and Mazda's parts bins but the majority is made up of Mazda parts.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    CR-V is made in either Japan...VIN code J or Great Britain VIN code S

    That was true for the previous generation CRV, but I think they make the current ones, or at least some of them, here in the US. I also think they are, or are in the process of, building RAV4 in Canada.
  • vg33e powervg33e power Member Posts: 314
    I stand corrected...you are correct about the CR-V there are a very few made in Liberty, Ohio...VIN code 5

    I work for a delaership.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 234,725
    East Liberty, Ohio.. ;)

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  • chuckfromlichuckfromli Member Posts: 249
    Thank you blueiedgod, great point about the profits going to the shareholders. I must admit my density, in that I never considered it from that point of view before. I think that was the last arguement of the American manufacturers. If you pointed out that a Honda or Toyota was assembled here, they would point out that the profits go to a foreign company, as opposed to "staying" here. But, as we should all realize in this global day and age, the shareholders own the parent corporation.

    I guess anyone could make an arguement that "domestic" cars are assembled mostly with parts made in the U.S. I think that's on the window sticker, the North American content or the U.S. content. I forget which it is, but N.A. includes Canada and Mexico too.

    BTW-I think you can forget about deciphering VINs and just read the door sticker for place of assembly.

    ChuckB a grniedgod
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204
    the chassis for the escape and fusion are based on mazda platforms, which were financially supported by ford.
    what was done from there, is usa, except assembly of the fusion.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    What's funny is that Mazda6, a Fusion twin, is made in the USA, while the "domestic" Ford Fusion is made in Mexico.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204
    you know what i think is funny, the cr-v has been redesigned how many times?
    we bought an 09 escape and still have our 04.
    a lot of it has not changed.
    basically, it is just a better vehicle. :P
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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