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Toyota Tacoma vs. Ford Ranger, Part XII
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WTF are you talking about. Give me one reason why I can't say the same thing about Rangers in the offroad sense, b/c that is the sense we are talking about. Again, I am not downing Ford or Rangers, only defending the frequently bashed Tacomas here.
Im all ears -- you go first. How is Yota all image when it comes to Tacomas? B/c they are more expensive? Do they not back it up, cuz I still haven't seen any pics of Rangers "not" rock crawling? Keep on talking out of your [non-permissible content removed] and your words are gonna come back to bite you -- and you know where. Maybe this isn't an argument I need to start, b/c I have been hanging around a Tacoma O/R message board for about 2 years, and believe me, there's no such thing as image there. I have also been to Ranger O/R board where there is also impressive stuff going on. But please, back off with the "image" crap. I am tired of people refusing to be halfway mature with their comments around here.
Ford Ranger not getting any redesign until 2005 or 2006. Then on the 2004 page it is showing a redesign. ???
2004 Tacoma get's it's expected increase in size, engine, doors, etc.
2004 Honda will introduce a pickup. Supposed to be larger than the Tundra. GM is to supply the v-8's.
http://www.motortrend.com/future/2003.html
If you want to know the true resale value of your vehicle, you must research what that vehicle is selling for in your area. In my experience, Rangers being sold are a dime a dozen, and their asking price is substantially lower than what the few Tacoma owners who are selling are asking.
I hope for your sake that in your purchasing and selling of vehicles, you don't take KBB's word as gospel as you do here! You know the saying: "A fool and his money are soon parted..."
If that was indeed a fact as you say, I seriously doubt that people would still buy so many of these "overpriced" trucks. I bet the Toyota dealers are probably pressuring the buyers soo hard that they have no choice but to buy, huh?
I'm not seeing many old Tacos and 4x4 PUs here in TX on dealer lots. I certainly see loads of Rangers. I see a lot of old 80s PUs in great condition running around....them foreign ones aint all rusted up.
Now Toyota does have the better reputation for quality and long-term reliability, so that should account for the majority of the used market sales. Another fact is that if the market is flooded with one particular type of vehicle in a certain genre, that same vehicle may be less desirable/less profitable. However, if you want to purchase a used model of the most popular truck (for 14 years), you are in luck, and will get a good deal.
Take for example if I only had a $0.99 and was craving a hamburger. My choices are a hamburger from some steakhouse for $1.50 or one from McDonalds for $0.89. Although we know whick one is much more tasty and which one I would much rather have -- I have only one choice.
2002 Tacoma DC 6cyl. (no 4X4), had to get it from Dothan Alabama, because they were having a hard time keeping them in stock. Even Tacoma's without many frills are very popular and hard to keep in stock.
i don't know why this is so hard to figure out. ford builds a lot more rangers than toyota does tacomas. they flood the market with them. toyota on the other hand deliberately keeps the build numbers down on tacomas just so they can sell all of them. why they do this i dont know. maybe they're scared they can't sell as many trucks as ford. maybe they simply can't build the numbers. but once you flood the market and build a huge number of trucks or any one vehicle, there's going to be more of them available used or new.
just because you say you never see any used tacomas or can't even find a new one like you want doesn't make the tacoma more in demand or a better truck, it just means that toyota isn't producing the number ford is which means that you probably will have a problem finding a trd 4x4 in white with no hitch. however if you want a ranger 4x4 4.0 with no hitch in white, chances are there are a couple in each color at your nearest ford dealer.
and regarding stang's comments, i dont know how it is around where he is, but in iowa it is a rare sight indeed to see anything but a 4x4 ranger. and most dealers order the 4.0 around here. a 3.0 is quite rare. i would bet that more 4.0's are built than 3.0's. just like there are more 5.4's out there in F150's than there are 4.6's which is standard in xlt F150's.
i think both trucks are great.
this is tbunder, i just had to create a new account cuz i lost my password. glad to see the fire's still there.
Marklo----> Yes you are right. Toyota just doesn't really care about keeping up with the demand it seems to me. I heard of a guy yesterday who was supposed to get a truck that he had ordered this week. They had settled EVERYTHING, including when the truck was to leave the factory and when he could pick it up. Last week they call and tell him that he isn't gonna get his truck, cuz they just had rather not let him order it like that. He was mad. Toyota is mean, I know, and as long as they can turn around and sell a truck to the next person that comes by the lot - they just aren't gonna be good to you as far as pricing, ordering, and locating vehicles for you. Just like some ranger people say that Ford isn't interested in competing with other trucks in off-road comparos, Yota isn't interested in flooding the market with 100000000000000000000000 Tacomas. Makes alot of sense to me.
At the Gates, St. Peter greets and tells him, "Well, you've been such a good guy, and your invention...the assembly line for the automobile ... changed the world !!!!
"As a reward, you can hang out with anyone in Heaven you want."
Ford thinks about it, and says ... "I want to hang out with God Himself."
So, the befuddled St. Peter takes Ford to the Throne Room, and introduces him to God.
Ford then asks God, "When you invented Woman, what were You thinking?"
God asks, "What do you mean?"
"Well," says Ford, "You have some major design flaws in your invention:
1. There's too much front end protrusion.
2. It chatters way too much at high speeds.
3. Maintenance is extremely high.
4. It constantly needs repainting, and refinishing.
5. It is out of commission at least 5 or 6 of every 28 days.
6. The rear end wobbles too much.
7. The intake is placed too close to the exhaust.
8. The headlights are usually too small.
9. Fuel consumption is outrageous. Just to name a few."
"Hmmm...," replies God, "Hold on a minute."
God goes over to the Celestial Supercomputer, types in a few keystrokes, and waits for the results. In no time the computer prints out a report, and God reads it. God then turns to Ford, and says,
"It may be that my invention is flawed, but according to these statistics, more men are riding my invention than yours.
Funny how the Ranger continues to outsell the Tacoma even after all these years... Those Thousands upon thousands of Ford Ranger owners all can't be wrong can they?
I know I wasn't I have a 1998 Ranger with over 66,000 trouble free miles on it. And was told by some of these very same people in this chat room it was going to fall apart, breakdown, is not reliable.. ect.. same old Toyota fanatic garbage..
And many thanks to the rest of you Ranger guys for having more than three brain cells that you like sharing with the rest of us. Your input is growing more appreciated everytime certain folks post here.
saddady, I can see why you chose your screen name.. tells all.
don't like to hear about Ford Ranger owners with miles of proven reliability on them?
Fact is your Tacoma isn't anymore reliable than my Ranger is. If the Ranger were such a terrible truck why has it been the best seller for 15years STRAIGHT? don't you think after 15 years people would have found out about how unreliable and terrible the Ranger is supposed to be?
Don't hear many people saying their Toyota or whatever is as good as a FORD! And your silly sales numbers can't change that fact!
i also couldn't believe a couple things i read, from a very well known person on this board. i won't mention any names, but this is what he said and recommended.
if you get the s/c, you can only expect 100,000 miles out of your engine at most and that the s/c "cuts engine life".
if you don't have at least a 2001, you have to switch your fuel injectors due to significant knocking in the engine with the s/c. you also should run at least 92 octane to cure the knocking, or "premium fuel all the way".
also, this person suggests that the guy inquiring about getting a s/c upgrade his auto tranny so he won't burn it up, and even suggested he'd done it before he gets the s/c so toyota would warranty his powertrain when his tranny (supposedly when it does go) does crap out on him.
now im not trying to stir anything up here, but it sure seems like several toyota guys here in the last year have preached and preached that this trd s/c is the 9th wonder of the world. well, it seems that in reality it isn't as perfect as they want us all to believe. as i see it, nothing yet beats the 207 horse SOHC 4.0 ford has right out of the factory. no premium fuel, very quick passing acceleration, and loads of torque for pulling power.
And yes, 2000 and below Tacomas and 4Runners have a problem with ping, and therefore are encouraged to install bigger injectors from Supra. Don't believe me? Go to the ttora board and check it out for yourself.
As for auto tranny upgrade: while it's not necessary, it's advised by some TTORA people. And no, the part about "doing this before your warranty runs out" is not for tranny, but for the supercharger. I doubt that Toyota would cover Level10 upgrade to an auto tranny under warranty.
And you can go on preaching about the 207hp SOHC 4.0L, but of course, we all know that that engine has not been in Ranger for as long as 3.4L has been in Tacoma, nowhere nearly as long. It's what, 2 years old now? Toyota kept the same engine for 7 years now, and looks like it'll be used for another year. Otherwise, Tacoma uses no premium fuel, very quick passing acceleration, and loads of torque and pulling power. I wonder if 17hp/20lbs of torque make that much difference. When you go premium fuel with a charger, it's a whole new world of power, and your beloved 4.0L will be left far behind on the road. If 3.4L was so powerless, I wonder why hundreds of thousands of people would buy a truck with it. They can't all be wrong, can they?
and you also sound like some ford guys. seems all those people who buy rangers year in and year out can't be wrong either, eh? tell me, how many years did ranger outsell tacoma or toyota pickup with the old 4.0? available in '89 and used up until '00. you want to talk about engine longevity on the production line, start talking when toyota leaves that puny 3.4 in as long as ford left the old 4.0 in.
as far as the torque/power difference, you say it "isn't much"- 17/20. but then its a different tune when you talk about the advantage tacoma has over frontier; which are about identical to what ford has over tacoma. what's it gonna be scorpio? you can't ride both rails. and didn't you knock nissan for making premium fuel mandatory on their s/c'd engine? and then you guys say it's highly recommended for the trd s/c? and that it's okay since it's a toyota? come on, i see a double standard big time.
and who really is comparing the stock 4.0 to the trd s/c 3.4? are you really doing that? please, a little unfair don't you think? put on a paxton or vortech on the SOHC 4.0 and then we can talk.
answer me this: what makes a difference to how long a specific engine has been in a vehicle? you keep on saying "oh, the 3.4 has been in tacoma longer than the SOHC 4.0 has been in ranger". who cares. it's in there now and it's more powerful than any factory built tacoma. the old 4.0 was available in ranger for 12 years. that should tell you something. people believed in it, and it outsold everything else. it also had more torque than the current 3.4. case closed.
1. Cuts engine life (although, chances are, the blower will die first. I think I've read other peoples' stories on how they went on to 100K with a charger) if you don't use it properly."
How is that equal to "You can only expect 100K miles"? It means that while supercharger shortens engine life, people have gone for 100K charged miles. (those are TTORA members, mind you, where most trucks aren't exactly street queens).
Heh.....at least I'm telling him what he can expect, before he finds out the hard way. Is it that rare in Ford camp?
In case you did not understand, I was trying to sound like one of you Ford guys on purpose. I'll include words like "warning: sarcasm" next time. And while the old 4.0L has been used for 11 years, I've heard in your threads that it was a piece of junk.
Power difference: You know, there is a point when one can say that "this engine is weak". For me that point comes when I look at 3.3L V6 from Nissan and see that it makes 20hp/23lbs more than I4 from Toyota.
And for your final question: it doesn't take much to make an engine that'll be replaced again in 2 years. It takes a lot more effort to make a quality (whoops, quality? You can't say that around Ford Escape with 7 recalls, one for leaking fuel) product that'll last long. Fine then, next year, when Toyota puts out Tacoma with 3.7L that'll pull something like 270hp/280lbs, what will Ford guys say then? Instant success is easy to achieve, long-term success is not, and no, success is not defined only by how many people buy your cars.
Now with the s/c you get gobs of performance that would run with just about any truck out there (s/ced s-runners 0-60 is better than the Lightnings). You do pay a price with that in that you MIGHT have a ping. I would say 10% have a legitimate PROBLEM with that ping. And for them, there are easy fixes if its not still under warranty (another thing you gotta remember). If you want your truck to run flawlessly with a blower that pings, sure, some upgrades are needed. But it will not let you down, IMO, under normal driving - ever. You have always said, tbunder, that you could just buy an aftermarket s/c for a Ranger just like us Yota boys. I would bet my next paycheck that even more problems would arise from that blower. And no warranty is there either.
In the performance upgrade availability section, Tacomas win among compact p/u's without a doubt. A minor ping may be a slight annoyance to a small percentage of investors, AT BEST. That is what I have learned from my few years of reading about it.
I will agree that the TRD s/c should be more compatible with the trucks. In all honesty, I have been disappointed by some of reports about em that I hear. However, if you mailed me a check for 2 grand right now for my truck -- that blower would be what I bought. They simply are unrivaled, and well worth their cost + any problems that arise. Over at TTORA, guys will start posts asking whether the blower is a good idea. Some of the responces include problems due to the blower - but EVERY person that has one says that they would do it again, even if it was more expensive. And I think scorpio will back me up on that.
" If 3.4L was so powerless, I wonder why hundreds of thousands of people would buy a truck with it."
So I wonder why hundreds of thousands of people would buy a Ranger? Sounds like a double standard to me.
And "when I look at 3.3L V6 from Nissan and see that it makes 20hp/23lbs more than I4 from Toyota."
How often do we run our trucks at PEAK RPM Levels? You know which one has a better average HP/Torque output, better by far. I do not pretend to know a thing about Nissan, BUT I do know what cubic inches stand for.
whatever. what happened to nothing compares to toyota quality and stuff like that? only expecting 100K out of a toyota? building the tranny up just to accept the s/c? and normal pinging? and then you guys knock the silverad's cuz they make noises. hilarious. looks like toyota's are just as prone to problems as anything, its just that you toyota guys don't like to talk about it. another thing, this isn't the escape thread. if you want to diss ford with another vehicle (the escape which is now #1 in sales in the category. it surpassed the rav4), ill do the same with toyota's lovely sludge problem that they tried so hard to deny until o'reilly got to them.
it's too bad it takes 2G's to surpass a ford pickup in horsepower and torque. now you're only looking at around $27 or $28G's for a s/c'd tacoma and another grand for gas for a year. no thx.
i may have said the old 4.0 was not as good as the new 4.0 in the ranger, but i never said it was junk or crap. it is a proven engine especially hooked up to the 5-spd automatic, it must be to be offered in the ranger for 12 years, right? after all, that old beater 4.0 still produces more torque than any engine offered in a tacoma from the factory, am i not right? thought so.
i really do not have the time to start this whole stupid back and forth thing you love to do here at edmunds so often. i just thought it was funny to actually see you speak the truth to one of your cohorts with thin sheetmetal that some cooler dented. again, i reiterate the fact that my respect for tacoma trucks has fallen. and that now they are right there with the dakota's on my list. the trd sticker does look cool though. im out on this one. don't throw stuff into your tacoma bed too hard.
Now for my point in creating this post...
<img src="http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL50/484006/629798/12000135.ptp"
click on the thumbnails on the left for a larger pic.
tbunder: Supercharger is something that pushes limits of a vehicle. It puts higher load on the engine, transmission and drivetrain. Therefore, if one were to install a charger and use it to full potential, one would have to take certain precautionary steps to ensure that vehicle continues to perform properly. Toyota increased injector size in 2001+ models specifically because people were buying up TRD charger and were complaining of ping. Silverado knocks fresh out of factory. Tacoma doesn't do that. With Silverado, it's crappy design, with Tacoma, it's not a bad design, but it happened because when 3.4L was designed, supercharger for it did not exist. When 2nd gen superchargers came out, Toyota fixed the ping problem. Yes, it's a short term fix (since they'd only be produced for 4 years), but hey, thats exactly what your 207hp engine is: a short-term fix.
It does not take a charger to surpass 4.0L power output, there are cheaper ways to do that. Headers, for one, would do the trick easily, without costing 2K. And a tacoma with a charger not just "surpasses Ford pickup in power", it blows it away. Just how much power gain does unwarrantied supercharger provide for Ford? Wouldn't that be fun.....those lockers would have imploded right in the dealers' parking lots
Escape was mentioned to make a point: Ford seems to always hurry to fill a void in markets by putting out a half-finished model, and then issuing recalls over the next 2 years. Yes, sounds great on paper, but it's sad in reality.
If you don't want to start anything in the future, don't make sarcastic posts. I was telling that guy exactly what would happen. I guess it is rare in Ford camp. And lets say this: my respect for Ford has not risen any.
sad: The army officials don't want to be charged with terrorism and saboutage for using Ford and Chevy
It would seem the blanket injector upgrade would apply to an issue with the 3.4l itself, either a problem or enhancement to it's operation.
Car and driver recently published an article on the "American Iron" or North American full size trucks. If the Silverado has such a bad design, why would it rank 2nd over the Tundra(3rd). The Dodge ram came in first, with the f-150 in 4th place. The silverado has a dated exterior, but has one of the most refined, civilized ride, some decent power, and one of the best fuel economies in the genre. The silverado does NOT knock from the factory. My father and my boss both own a 2002 extended cab with vortec v8. Both are smooth as butter, and has a nice feel from the ride, even in the back seat.
"sad: The army officials don't want to be charged with terrorism and saboutage for using Ford and Chevy
"If you don't want to start anything in the future, don't make sarcastic posts. "
I take it you wanted to start something?
Lastly it is a fools debate to say simply headers on a Toyota 3.4l would surpass the Ford 4.0l in stock trim. If you are going to update one engine, the other should have the same benefit.
saddady, nice tacoma picks. Maybe the armed forces wanted a crew cab? That's why you don't see any Rangers...
160,000 miles. Replaced new clutch, new water pump, timing belt already.
Also, what spares should I bring along with me?
I will be gone two years.
Thanks,
Gringo1
The Car and Drive part -- go back a few years and you will see that they simply always go with the newest in most of their comparos. I think the Tundra won its first year (how, I have no idea) in a similar contest. As far as the Silverados, some do knock from the factory as I have learned from browsing the topics here. Most don't however, and my dad just bought a new one which I do like to a certain extent. It does have a few problems at its 4 month age, which is not sitting well with my opinion of the trucks. Smooth does describe them well, though.
As far as the army pics, I wasn't trying to put down the Ranger (not sure if it sounded that way). I read a document from a military newspaper, that said they just wanted to use Yotas cuz they blend in better. Take that for what its worth. There have been stories of some leaving the country with gun turrets, ungodly roll bars and lots more. Sounds pretty cool. Have a good lunch! l8rs
Car and Driver: I wonder how it would look to readers if winner of an "American Iron" contest was a Nip truck. While not all Silverados knock, why do I need seeing posts in edmunds from different people on the topic? It can't be a massive conspiracy by other automakers.
And lastly: tbunder said that it's sad that Toyota needs a 2K supercharger to beat Fords' 4.0L power. I told him that it doesn't. Headers would do just fine to bring the 3.4L to the same output.
My 2001 hardly ever pings (I have heard it twice in two years) and when it did I was around 1500 rpms under a heavy load. I now have 25,000 miles on my S/C and 35,000 on the truck and have not had ANY problems with the charger or the truck. Also, there is no need to to re-do the valve body. My tranny is just as firm as it was pre-S/C, just put a heavy duty cooler and put synthetic fluid in the tranny and flush every 40-50,000 miles. As far as cutting engine longevity in half...I have to disagree whole heartedly. With proper maintenance and care it will be just fine, but I guess when I turn a 100,000 I will let you all know if my engine self-combusts:) All I can say is that it is absolutely the best mod I have ever done to my truck, the SAWs are a close second.
Tbunder: TRD tells you that you have to run 92 octane or the next best thing. The higher octane burns slower, therefore reducing pre-detonation. Nissan tells you the exact thing. They will also give you a smaller pulley that will eliminate all ping, but lowers the boost. The charger gives you the best of both worlds, the truck is as quick 90% of cars on the road and can still go just about anywhere I desire. As far as price w/charger becoming $27-$28,000 I think you better find a new dealership to buy from. I paid $21,000 out the door for the Toy. and paid $1800 for the charger. To bad you still didn't have "new" 4.0. I would be glad to show you the difference between 207hp and 265hp:)
Stang: The horror stories I have read here on edmunds and gmpistonslap are enough to prevent me from buying a chevy for a long time.
We'll see when you turn 100K: I think that adding load on drivetrain would wear it out faster. Of course, it's one thing when you use charger to pass someone on a freeway once a month, and another if you race from every light and stop sign.
Lucky buy on the charger for $1800: I heard they got more expensive, or was it the new iForce charger?