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Toyota Tacoma vs. Ford Ranger, Part XII
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Comments
Most of the wrenching seemed to be done to the front suspensions, and of course, the owners did NOT get their hands dirty. They actually had a "mechanic's trailer" with attached tent, where three mechanics in matching blue overalls did all the work. They could fit two Hummers under the tent at one time.
I do believe the owners actually drove, but boy, did they ever trash their $100K machines (lack of off-road experience?). The majority of the visible damage was to the rear bumpers and the lower edges between the wheels (indeed, too long). Some of these trucks were new when they started. They weren't new when the week was over. Hey, its only money.
Even with all that, I overheard some owners wishing that the trails were tougher and more of a challenge. Imagine that!
We also saw a large group of Toyotas (25+)gathering for a run. No Tacomas. All early F40 LCs, and short wheel base early PUs with solid front axles.
Personal mechanics......extensive body damage....doesn't sound like they knew what they were doing.
I've seen people fix Tacomas on the runs: one of TTORA guys went up Tellico trails in 4x4, and came down in 1 wheel drive. Busted up one front axle and S-ed his rear springs (so had to take driveshaft off). But not to the extent of personal mechanics..it's all done with our own blood and sweat. There's no other way about it.
about what stang posted- i had read that post before. the guy is not accurate. i have 8.5 inches of clearance at both ends under the axles. and the front has a huge skidplate hanging beneath the axle. this guy obviously has some beef with the jeep people. ive posted the numbers here before. ground clearance for liberty is like 10.5 claimed. i don't know where they measure that, probably where toyota measures. in stock form, the lib isn't a good off-roader simply cuz it's tires are street tires/dry dirt tires. and to correct scorpio, towhooks are part of the off-road package on liberty. TWO OF THEM.
and if nissan started putting 33" tires on their xterra's, ill agree that there is 12" under that front axle. but they don't, and there isn't. ive driven them and got down on my hands and knees and studied the under-carriage. there isn't even a t/c skidplate on them.
i never said the liberty was the greatest off-roader. i was/am just defending it from naive "one brand" only toyota guys. you have to have an open mind to enjoy life. i would hate to think that i only loved one particular vehicle and thought the rest sucked. give kudos where they are due. the liberty is a state of the art vehicle built in a state of the art facility. it is pretty potent off-road with some decent tires and runs like a scalded dog, while bringing in 21 mpg. sure, it will get groceries and keep them from rolling around, but it will also take them to your tent with a real t/c that is lever operated, not electronically. dog it all you want, the fact is that it will go anywhere a tacoma or any other 4x4 will. and to those who say it isn't a good off-roader, you're just in denial.
About towhooks: Your arguement was that Ford puts them -->standard<-- on Ranger, I'm just kicking it back to you. Jeep doesn't put them standard, Tacoma doesn't have enough standard, and if I want more towhooks, I can just go to the nearest 4WheelParts store and get extra. In fact, I had 4 until I put a reciever hitch in the rear.
Lets see.."I think of Liberty as mini-Rubicon"?
There's plenty of good offroader vehicles out there, nobody is arguying it. Tacoma is simply one of the best off the dealers lot. Stock jeep (regular edition) is just not that great, unless you get one with offroad packages. Stock Liberty, well, you said it yourself. Stock by stock, Liberty can not hang in with a Taco, ESPECIALLY if it's a regcab Taco.
It may be a potent offroader when it's been modified, but since you don't believe in lifts, etc. then you'll never know.
And don't give the state of the art speech: between a bad fuel pump and faulty control modules (Take a look in JL Problems forum, I did.....sure did not look pretty when people post messages about all of their electronics going out at once), it does not sound like state of the art to me.
I am still waiting for one of the pencil thin 8" axles with a locker to snap locked and loaded, but it hasn't happened. Even with guys popping the clutch - an occurrence that played havock on one other truck with traction control in the rear pumpkin.
I would really like to know more about the quality of Jeeps, tbunder. I have heard horror stories, but most of em from the Taco board. You have already had a fuel pump go out, and you are the only person I really have any contact with that owns a Jeeper. Keep us posted.
Lets see.."I think of Liberty as mini-Rubicon"?
There's plenty of good offroader vehicles out there, nobody is arguying it. Tacoma is simply one of the best off the dealers lot. Stock jeep (regular edition) is just not that great, unless you get one with offroad packages. Stock Liberty, well, you said it yourself. Stock by stock, Liberty can not hang in with a Taco, ESPECIALLY if it's a regcab Taco.
It may be a potent offroader when it's been modified, but since you don't believe in lifts, etc. then you'll never know.
And don't give the state of the art speech: between a bad fuel pump and faulty control modules (Take a look in JL Problems forum, I did.....sure did not look pretty when people post messages about all of their electronics going out at once), it does not sound like state of the art to me.
yes, i do think of my liberty as a mini rubicon.
i never conceded liberty to RC tacoma. in fact, i laughed at it. if you are calling one bad fuel pump problematic, (as ive told you, the jeep rep told my jeep dealer that i am the only bad fuel pump in any liberty, only one replaced under warranty. the fuel pump came from the factory cuz no parts counter had it) then your standards are too high. and if i remember correctly, only like two or three guys posted this electronics problem. state of the art meaning their production facility in ohio and its standards or production. punch it up on a search engine, then read it. it's like a lexus or acura faciltiy sounds like. with line shutdown if panels aren't within certain millimeters. etc. tacoma is "one of the best" factory off-roaders out there. yes. but there are also a lot more than just tacoma. ranger fx4, ZR2, etc. but none of these can hang with a shorter wheelbased vehicle off-road. it's just a simply fact of life. no, i don't like body lifts. suspension lifts i can tolerate, but would never do it unless i could retain stock look (wheels, rake, etc). but i do believe in altering tires. so that's what i did. put on some BFG KO tires on my jeep and it totally changed the look. sure, i miss my truck, but i plan on waiting a year or two to buy the new ranger, dakota, colorado, toyota ??. then ill have two cool 4x4's in the garage. but i would bet that whatever truck i buy, the lib will walk all over on the trails. it's that good. you'll never believe that though.
sure that guy had dana axles, just makes too much sense. i wonder why he did swap to danas if he even did. toyota ones are simply too thin and weak. its a known fact. why do so many tacoma owners do the full front axle dana swap? hmmm....
sad- so far the only thing i can say is i love my jeep. it is by far more solid than anything ive ever driven, faster than anything ive ever owned (meaning quicker, yes, even quicker than the SOHC 4.0 which is no slouch). and i'ts 4lo is wickedly slow. i still think you need to trade your 2x in for a lib 4x4. save some money at the same time and have 4-four wheel drive.
Dana axles: He has front Dana axle on the front, and stock Toyota axle in the rear. As for "why do so many tacoma owners do the full front axle dana swap?": because they are hardcode offroaders and have IFS on the front, thats why.
I read your piece here everytime, and you make many good points and many bad points. This one here is a bad one:
"...state of the art meaning their production facility in ohio and its standards or production. punch it up on a search engine, then read it. it's like a lexus or acura faciltiy sounds like..."
How you could put a Jeep Liberty production line in the same sentence as that of a Lexus or an Acura production facility is mind-boggling ! Maybe not to you, but to everyone else....
How many awards has the Jeep Production facility in Ohio won ? Any Platinum awards yet ? anything to be proud of ??? And, FYI, no Lexus or Acura facility produces a car/truck/SUV that had a fuel pump die within days of purchase.... Never.
Reminds me of Sen Lloyd Bentsen's response to Dan Quayle at the VP debate in 1988: "I know Jack Kennedy, Mr Quayle, you are no Jack Kennedy". Mr tbunder1: It may be hard for you to accept, but Jeeps are no Lexuses or Acuras. And Ohio facility ain't Tsutsumi, Tahara, Araco, or even Lake Erie, Canada.
Oh, BTW, I do own a Lex and a Toy, just keeping it real !
Benz.
http://www.autointell.com/News-2001/May-2001/May-2001-1/May-02-01-p4.htm
here's another site.
http://www.jjournal.net/jeep/features/Liberty/tour.html
My warrantee expires in december, can't imagine the fun that will be in store for me after that's gone. This gets paid off in december 2003, then its immediately being sold and im trying my luck with a tacoma.
As for my Taco: bought it 10 month ago, 20K miles, no problemos.
You have to get a manual one, though...I4 is not that fast with automatic, and you probably want to get an RC, it's 500 lbs lighter than Xtracab.
But 2.7 is a bulletprof engine, can't go wrong with it.
and what's with the "2nd gen. tacoma" im hearing about? is something in the works or is it just hearsay?
Actually, it's probably 3rd generation already (1995.5 to 1998, 1999-2000, 2001-2003), I just call them 2nd gen because of the 2nd generation supercharger that fits 1999+ Tacomas.
1. Good power, but didn't feel any more powerful than my 3.4 Tacoma. 'Course, that's a difficult comparison because my truck is a manual transmission.
2. Ranger willingly revved up to 5500 RPMs for upshifting when pushed. In comparison, seems like I'm really pushing my Tacoma's engine when I go past 4000 RPMs.
3. Ranger's interior was comfortable but the seats really need a headrest. I wouldn't want to get rear-ended and have my head wrap around the back of those short seats in the Ranger.
4. Despite people's claims the Ranger has a better, more civilized ride on real-world roads, I couldn't feel it and I drove over the same roads I drive on with my Tacoma.
5. Ranger stickered for about $23,800 and was not loaded. No PW, PL, off-road package, bedliner, fancy alloy wheels, 31" tires, etc. I bought my Tacoma TRD with these features (and more) for $22,500 drive-out. Still wondering if the Ranger's price advantage is "real."
6. For as much talk I've heard about the Tacoma's thin doors, the Ranger's seemed very lightweight and the sound/feel of the door handle was cheap. Seemed like you had to turn the crank more than necessary to lower the windows.
7. Styling - I don't care for it. I don't like the tall, plastic bed caps or the hood bulges. It looks gimmicky and juvenile.
8. My biggest complaint - the brakes. Absolutely horrible. Though the brakes began to grab immediatly after pressing pedal, the truck kept coasting, no doubt the ABS being the culprit. Hard braking in my truck is a violent, head-jerking experience, even without lock-up and proper braking techniques. I hate ABS and am glad I didn't pay extra for that "standard" feature.
9. Seemed like the Ranger's steering wasn't as quick, meaning it took more steering wheel turns to get the effect I'm used to.
Overall, I'm still convinced the Tacoma is the better truck. I don't think the newly updated 2002 Ranger has an edge over my 1998 Tacoma.
On the few times on my Ranger and SuperDuty when I was braking very hard or hitting major bumps braking at high speed, I could feel the ABS kick in. When it does, you can feel it pulsate through the pedal..
On pricing: Most Rangers can be drivin off the lot at prices that are more than $2000 less than MSRP. What trim line did you test drive? Most Rangers are at least at the XLT level which you get power everything. However to get the larger tires, you have to go to the FX packages, which MSRP around 24.5k, but sell at around 22.5K
According to the safety ratings, the Ranger did better than the Tacoma for the drivers side head injury ratings..
tbunder: plastic bedcaps help protect bedrail against scratches and dents? Wait.......if we were to believe you, bed only got scratched and dented on a Tacoma, not on Ranger.
You can roll on the floor laughing all you want.....but wait, you don't even have a truck anymore. Got enough grocery bag hooks and lipstick holders?
I agree with you about the plastic bed rail things and the hood. My biggest beef with the Ranger is the chubby looking front end - it's definitely out of proportion with the rest of the vehicle.
1. The truck I tested was an automatic - no manuals on the lot. The 3.4 engine was definitely less powerful than my 4.0L. It was a little noisier as well.
2. The Tacoma's ride was very similar to the Ranger - no better, no worse. Pretty stiff around town.
3. The Tacoma's steering ratio was significantly slower and less accurate than the Ranger's, not as nice to drive on pavement. Had to crank it more in the parking lot.
4. The Tacoma's so called 'sport seats' were pretty soft, but still comfortable. You sit closer to the floor in the Tacoma.
5. The Tacoma's stereo sounded decent due to high-mounted tweeters in the doors. I changed all the speakers in my truck to co-axial Pioneer's and it sounds great now. Would rather have the in dash CD6 in my Ranger than the single CD/cassette in the Tacoma.
6. My Ranger has 4 doors, I could not live without them now, so convenient.
7. The brakes felt very similar to the Ranger. Both trucks stop with very little pressure on the pedal.
8. I would like the chance to try a manual transmission Tacoma. The one thing I don't like is the tranny in my Ranger. It is notchy, and the shifts must be pretty slow to engage the next gear easily. Not like a Honda!
9. The doors on the Toyota were thin. The interior is narrow - my left leg came into contact with the forward part of the armrest on the door. There is a little more space in the Ranger.
10. The Tacoma TRD still stickers $5000 CDN more than a loaded Ranger FX4. Based on my test drive, the truck is not any better. The new FX4 Ranger offers the same Bilstein shocks, and a locking differential, as well as great tires. I will wait for the next generation Tacoma in 2004, with the 245hp/283 lb-ft all-aluminum 4.0L V6. If I was to get another small truck now, it would be a V8 Dakota.
"http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/74756/article.html">
4Runner testdrive
4.0L V6 with 245/283 or iForce V8 235/320 (hp/lbs-ft), 5 speed auto tranny, 4-wheel traction control system, fulltime 4WD in V8 models, shift on the fly for V6.
Looks like they've added 6CD changer/DVD nav system.
Lets hope 2004 Tacoma gets the best of 4Runner drivetrain and none of the yuppie stuff.
RANGER 2002 4X4 XLT SUP CAB
4.0 SOHC V6 ENGINE
5-SPD AUTOMATIC O/D TRANS
VIN 1FTZR45E92T A56402
Standard equipment INCLUDED AT NO EXTRA CHARGE
Safety/Security:
-driver and pass srs air bag
-4-whl anti-lock pwr brakes
-adj height frt seat belts
-side intrusion door beams
-rear high mount stop lamp
-24 hr roadside assistance
-securilock
Functional:
-5-speed manl transmission
-rack and pinion pwr steer
-independent sla frt suspen
-gas-filled shocks
-trailer tow wire harness
-100k mile tune-up interval
-intermittent front wipers
Exterior:
-4-door cab feature
-P245/75Rx16 A/T OWL tires
-16" aluminum wheels
-fog lamps
-front tow hooks
-bed rail covers
-chrome frt and rear bumpers
-solar tint glass
-rear sliding window
(color is oxford white cc)
Interior:
-am/fm cd player w/clock
-leather wrapped strg wheel
-tilt strg wheel/speed cont
-cloth 60/40 split bench st
-rr vinyl jump seats
-day-night rear view mirror
-passenger side grab handle
-color keyed carpeted mats
-color keyed cloth visors
-floor consolette
-tachometer
(has medium prairie tan cloth 60/40 split bench)
Warranty:
-3/36 bumper to bumper
Key standard equipment:
-MP3 audio player
-speed control/tilt strg wheel
-leather wrap steering wheel
-sliding rear window
-fog lamps
-wheels, aluminum 16"
Price information MSRP
Standard vehicle price...............$22,210
Optional equipment at EXTRA CHARGE
-2002 model year
-oxford white cc
-prairie tan cloth
-XLT trim
-4.0L SOHC V6 engine
-5-spd automatic o/d transmission....$1,000
-4.10 ratio regular axle
-air conditioning......................$650
-front license plate bracket
-trailer tow, class III ___________
TOTAL VEHICLE AND OPTIONS............$23,860
DESTINATION/DELIVERY....................$610
___________
TOTAL BEFORE DISCOUNTS...............$24,470
AIR CONDITIONING DISCOUNT..............-$650
TOTAL SAVINGS..........................-$650
TOTAL MSRP...........................$23,820
__________________________________________________
No PW or PDL and this truck stickers for almost $24,000. So much for your "no Ranger can cost $23,800 and not come with PW and PDL" theory. Makes me wonder how truthful you folks are when it comes to how much your trucks really costed you.
Tbundy, your comment on seat height being the same in the Tacoma and Ranger is not only irrelevant but probably just plain wrong (imagine that...). The fact is, seat height aside, the Ranger offers no whiplash protection for taller guys like me, the Tacoma does with its headrests. Case closed. And as far as brakes go - I was "standing on them" not "braking normally." If that wouldn't engage the ABS, I don't know what would. But it was obvious the truck couldn't stop like my non ABS Tacoma.
Oh, and as far as your comments go regarding my being at a Ford dealership - well, let's just say I back up my posts here with research and facts and not whatever made-up nonsense comes to mind at any given moment...or lies, like your little truck jumping stories...
And I definitely believe pluto when "standing on the brakes" hardly produces any noticeable effect, especially on a new truck. Sure buddy.
The next ranger...
Just kidding...
What you don't realize is I didn't pay MSRP either. MSRP for my Tacoma TRD was $24,800 and my DRIVE-OUT was $22,500. Sorry, bub, but you can't even compare any 1998 Ranger to my truck because back then no Ranger came even close to being equipped like the Tacoma TRD (same story today, BTW). Sure, buying a Tacoma is a little more expensive than a Ranger, but not the $3K-$4K you would like us to believe - unless you try and compare mis-matched models, we've been down that road. Besides, deep down we both know (ouch for you!) than any purchase price difference will be more than refunded back to me with my truck's MUCH better resale. And that's a fact, Jack! Good luck selling your Ranger, it's damn near impossible, they're a dime a dozen and nobody wants 'em - swallow the fact you'll have to trade it in and get bent over!
"'And I definitely believe pluto when "standing on the brakes" hardly produces any noticeable effect...'" What can I say? Compared to my Tacoma's brakes, the Ranger's are ineffectual and not noticeable!
Bucket seats? Like the surf-board seats in the Expeditions with no headrest either? How's that going to fix anything?
The closest matching Tacoma
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/toyota/tacoma/4drdoublecabv64wdsb34l6cyl4a/standard.html?id=lin0014
it doesn't have cruise control.
it doesn't have the larger tires
it doesn't have 16" aluminium rims
it doesn't have CD or MP3 player
it doesn't have antilock brakes
it doesn't have the sliding rear window
it doesn't have the trailer wiring
it doesn't have a tachometer
it doesn't have A/C
Add those (at a cost of around $3400) to the Tacoma, to match the Ranger you quoted above and you'll find the Tacoma price is quite a bit higher than the Ranger.
Tbundy, if you're reading, you'll be heart-broken to hear that Toyota's new 4.0 V6 (same displacement as your beloved Ford 4.0) in the 4Runner makes 245 horses and 285 lb/ft torque. Prepare to kiss your old arguments good-bye when they put it in the Tacoma!
Who's your daddy?
Oh well, at least you got to feel what it was like to be on top of the HP war, albeit for a very short time...
How about taking my Tacoma for example? I have a 2002 Xtracab, 4x4 SR5 TRD V6 with manual.
MSRP on it was around 23,400, and I took it home for $21400 + TTL.
Yes, it did not have cruise control.
It did have large 16" tires with alum rims, CD player, sliding rear window, tach and AC.
It didn't have ABS, but it's a $300 option. And it did have power windows/mirrors too.
All it boils down to is that posted Ranger price is very close to a comparable Tacoma price, IF you compare appropriate models. Don't compare DCs to Ranger does not have Doublecab model at all.
you are looking at a 2002 or 2003 model. in which, power windows, locks, mirrors was a pkg option. i see it's a whole $300. add that to the price and you're right at $24000. i still don't believe you. my '01 stickered at $23900. it had every option available back in '01. i have a picture of the sticker if you want to see it.
talk is cheap. let's see some actual tacoma's with this new engine. do you not think that ford will offer its 4.6 (which has even more torque than any of those engines you mentioned which is still the most important thing in any truck right?) or some new V8 when the new ranger comes out? and heck, that could be in three or four years and ranger would still outsell tacoma in its old design- even with it's new "awesome" iforce V8. even so, my little 3.7 power-tech will pull you around the trails all day long.
ps. is your bed rusting out yet on that old '98?
You're forgetting that if Toyota puts their 4.7 V8 in the Tacoma (like they're doing with the 4Runner, its sister vehicle), the 4.7 outperforms the Ford 4.6 (and GMC 4.8) - and not just in power but in smoothness and refinement as well. Why do you think the Ford and Chevy guys never compare these engines to the Toyota?
Talk is cheap, huh? Put your money where your mouth is and give us your VIN number then. I'll be able to tell you EXACTLY what your truck had and what it stickered for.
So, my truck is "old" because it's a 1998 model? You see, it's all relative. From a Ford owner's perspective, it IS old. From a Toyota owner's perspective, it's just getting broken in and the best is yet to come.
Oh yeah, no rust. And no broken fuel pumps either...
It ain't. Not even close. Case closed. Prove me wrong.
Suckers pay the MSRP, huh? Who are you referring to? I paid $22,500 drive-out and the truck's MSRP was $24,800. And I bought the truck for a few hundred dollars over invoice.
==================================================
"5. Ranger stickered for about $23,800 and was not loaded. No PW, PL, off-road package, bedliner, fancy alloy wheels, 31" tires, etc. I bought my Tacoma TRD with these features (and more) for $22,500 drive-out. Still wondering if the Ranger's price advantage is "real.""
I can prove you wrong in the "You guys said" statement. I never said it, but you lumped me in to the "other" group who happens to support ford. "We" said:
[Bess] Most Rangers can be drivin off the lot at prices that are more than $2000 less than MSRP.
[Tbunder] there is no way any ranger priced at "$23500" doesn't have everything.
[eagle63] I'm a little skeptical too. I don't see how any compact truck could sticker for almost $24000 and not have power locks, windows, etc.
[Bess] In 2002, on the XLT's it costs an extra $350 to get the power windows/locks/mirrors/keyless entry from the factory (package 47F)
Where's my statement!?!
All I know is there is a little missinterpretation over MSRP and take home price, but "with all due respect", "learn to read". You are making an argument with me, but you are sticking words into my mouth. I am not arguing that a truck with that MSRP can not have a particular option. All I know is you are comparing one truck's MSRP with your Invoice. See post #1641, by Bess, add in Scoprio's truck for comparison, add an automatic transmission and some options and see who costs less MSRP or Take home.
Let me ask again: Do you not drive a regular cab?
Intriguing, but when only one party out of many seems to have a constant misunderstanding problem, fault can be directed more easily...
Again, this debate is about the fact your fellow Ford fans said it was impossible a $23,820 stickered Ranger did not come loaded, let alone without PW and PDLs. I proved them wrong. Suck it up and get over it already.
Then you began talking nonsense about invoices and people being suckers for paying MSRP. THIS DEBATE ISN'T ABOUT INVOICES AND MSRPS. IT IS ABOUT RANGER FANS BEING MISLEADING ON WHAT THEIR TRUCKS STICKER FOR.
Your last paragraph only further illustrates your confusion and misunderstanding. Where am I comparing one truck's MSRP to my invoice? I'm sorry, can you point out to me where I posted my truck's invoice figures and made a comparison? You asked me: "Let me ask again: Do you not drive a regular cab?" Can you also point out where you asked me that the first time? I think you're all confundido, amigo...
Here's the summarized version for you which also addresses your invoice/MSRP contribution to the debate:
I think the Ranger guys downplay what their trucks REALLY sticker for. I think when people say Rangers are less expensive, they are mismatching their comparisons (like bess comparing a double-cab Tacoma to an Ex-cab Ranger). After factory rebates and dealer negotiations (Yes, Toyotas have rebates and let you negotiate too), I don't think Rangers are actually puchased for thousands and thousands less than Tacomas.
And for the millionth time, my truck is an Ex-Cab, not regular cab.
You are right! It is a big conspiracy.
One person was wrong, and you think it is a big cover up. What I said before was that MSRP really isn't much more than a high starting point for negotiations.
Also, see point 6 below.
2. "I proved them wrong. Suck it up and get over it already.
I now dub Plutonium the victor of Tacoma vs Ranger!
3. "Where am I comparing one truck's MSRP to my invoice?"
I quoted your post (#1626) in my post (#1648). Plain as day, Amigo. Here it is again...
Pluto Originally said:"5. Ranger stickered for about $23,800 and was not loaded. No PW, PL, off-road package, bedliner, fancy alloy wheels, 31" tires, etc. I bought my Tacoma TRD with these features (and more) for $22,500 drive-out. Still wondering if the Ranger's price advantage is "real.""
Looks like comparing the Ranger's MSRP to your Tacoma's drive out price to me. Now don't confuse yourself, because I was talking about stickered vs actual purchase price, you just stuck in the term invoice into your question. See your post #1649's reference to the last paragraph in my post #1648.
4. ""Let me ask again: Do you not drive a regular cab?" Can you also point out where you asked me that the first time?"
Post #1646, my post that appears just before you told me to "learn to R-E-A-D."
5. "I think you're all confundido, amigo..."
Let me quote yourself "Intriguing, but when only one party out of many seems to have a constant misunderstanding problem, fault can be directed more easily... "
Ever hear of the kettle calling the pot black? You might want to stop trying to assign and direct fault. Then you will not seem so stressed.
6. "Again, this debate is about the fact your fellow Ford fans said it was impossible a $23,820 stickered Ranger did not come loaded"
Actually Tbunder was was only one to say that, and now you giving us all credit. In all actuality, he was probably thinking about the out-the-door price, not MSRP or stickered price.
Pluto, my good sir, you are definitely a planet in your very own orbit, albeit elliptical (and angry).
Seems we have a communication problem here. I've noticed that IN GENERAL, the English spoken in Texas isn't, how can I say this nicely - the "best" I've heard (a thought shared by many of ya'all's fellow North Americans, BTW). Of course, the same can be said of the Spanish I've heard there too. Maybe that's why there's "Tex-Mex," a made-up language of English and Spanish because so many people can't speak either well? Oh well, that's a discussion for a different day...all I'm saying is your English is no doubt a part of this two-way communication problem between us.
So this all ends with a:
"You are right! It is a big conspiracy. One person was wrong, and you think it is a big cover up...I now dub Plutonium the victor of Tacoma vs Ranger!
Victory is still sweet, especially when the loser is so bitter!
Either way, I drove a 2002 v6 4x4 LB RC F-150 at work this summer and that thing was a complete dog. There was one big hill that I had to climb at least 6 times a day in it and my truck. The f-150 needed 2nd gear and alot of coaxing, while my truck would take it in 3rd w/o any extra push needed.
And for the record, Im not buying the Ranger price advantage anymore either. I used to say that the Ranger was the best VALUE, now its not even that. Nice job for opening our eyes pluto, thanx. Every last one of you Ranger guys pushed that one "fact" more than anything else and I always just thought it was true without challenging it. I guess now your only bogus advantage to push will be that BIG MAC sales stat. Keep trying guys, nothin but love! Have a good one!
For the record, the only time I used the word invoice was in regards to the price you should be seeking when buying a vehicle. Please see my 3rd paragraph in my last post in which I said "Now don't confuse yourself, because I was talking about stickered vs actual purchase price, you just stuck in the term invoice into your question."
You put it best "I bought the truck for a few hundred dollars over invoice. " So in this instance, your critiquing my mistake that is only good for a few hundred dollars difference?
So you see Pluto, you are causing your own self-confusion. If you simply read the posts appearing before your own, you will find that most of your questions and statements are lacking in some regard or another. All it takes is an open mind to interpretation, a un-biased method of observation, and the ability to empathize.
If you quit stereo typing individuals, Ford Fans, Ranger Owners, Texans, etc, you may find out that we are all just truck enthusiasts who may or may not share the same opinions.
Someone post the engine specs of the Ranger 4.0L so we can compare em with a real 4.0L. Hehe, I love the way Toyota does that. 283ft-lbs torque at 3400 rpms in a v6. OMG, I can't wait for 04!
Also the price advantage is still there, just don't take Pluto's comparison of MSRP vs his final price.
If I took my purchase price and compared a similairly equipped Tacoma's MSRP, I would probably see a difference of about 4 grand.
Click on my name if you want to know what I do for a living.