Volkswagen TDI Models

bpeebles · July 2003

(sfharad) I doubt you have seen any reference to oil consumption on the TDI engines. The TDI engine is VERY reliable and has no history of oil consumption.

Oil changes are are every 10,000 miles and one must use the one of the 3 'approved' lubricants that are available in North America.

Clutch is not a problem with 'normal' driving. In fact, It should last LONGER than with a gas engine because the gobs of low end torque eliminates the need to use the throttle while starting off from a standstill. (One rarely has to 'slip' the clutch for any reason.) The only time I have seen complaints about the TDI clutch is on a MODIFIED engine that is producing so much torque that the clutch cannot handle it.

A/C odor is not a TDI-only occourance. Virtually ANY vehicle that is operated under the conditions that allows mold to grow on the AC-coils will have this occur. The 'solution' is simple, turn off the AC and allow the coil to dry-off by blowing air thru it.

If those are your only 3 concerns... by all means, get a TDI ASAP and start getting over 52MPG. On the highway, you should realize more like 55-57 MPG. (with proper driving technique.)

I am getting over 50MPG with country driving. (40-50 MPH on country roads)

8u6hfd · July 2003

I'd verify the timing belt was changed.

sfharad · July 2003

thanx for the info. i've never owned a diesel engine before and am looking forward to the experience. i'm used to changing the oil every month or 3k miles so this won't really be much of a stretch ... re: the cost of the oil change ... it kinda breaks even ... again, thanx for the response.

spiritualquest · July 2003

What is the level of cetane recommended for the New Beetle?

chmeeee · July 2003

You should always be using above 40. Above 45 is ideal, but very hard to find unless you are in California or something.

ruking1 · July 2003

#659

The minimum CZ (cetane rating) for the ALH engine is 49.

(Technical data, Engine data, pg 00-2, VW Golf, GTI, Jetta 1999-2003, Jetta Wagon 2001-2003, 1.9 Liter 4 cyl 2V TDI...CD Bentley)

It would be worth a check in the state or states that you buy diesel/operate to see what is the minimum product delivered standard. With that information, you can decide if the extra cost and performance of fuel additives, you wish to use/not using a cetane boost and or other additives makes sense or not.

CA is "supposed" to be 45. I have read that the minimum legal standard for #1 and #2 diesel in other states is 40. #2 diesel, as you know is the commodity of choice.

So by behavior I am ok with 45 cetane (CA) vs the standard of 49. I use Primrose 405 and frankly can not tell a performance difference either in SOTP feeling or mileage numbers While it says it boosts the cetane numbers 3/4 points (.93 oz to 14.5 gal or 1-2000 dilution rate) I use it for the lubricity and emulsification of H2O. (no real seat of the pants feeling)

spiritualquest · July 2003

The reason I was asking is that I was in Canada and got some 42. I had some issue of the engine starting up and having a "heart murmer" in the car when I first started up. The car's tac just jumped down in a rythmic motion until the car got warmed up sufficiently. Then, just a little. I dumped the rest of my PS Cetane booster (grey bottle)-about 4 oz into the tank, and the issue went away. There were some in already, but I guess not enough.

But now, the heart murmer has come back after filling up at a station here at home-one I have filled up here before with no problems. I threw some PS (white bottle) in it, and it did not take care of it. Of course, it only boosts it 4 numbers, and so I am wondering if I need to put some of the grey in to boost it some more. Or should I look for other issues?

So, I was wondering if the poor fuel issue will create these problems, or do I look for something else? Mileage is coming up to 40K, and so I was wondering if I need to look at the timing belt. Sure could use some feedback.

ruking1 · July 2003

For sure you will want to go thru the most likely fault isolation procedures. Since you are coming up on 40k, I would presume your vehicle is still covered under warranty. I am also guessing that you have changed the fuel filter twice and in between fuel filter changes, drained it app 2 times.Still it seems like it might be water in the fuel related. So I would bring it in since it is under warranty and let them sort it out.

Timing belt issues are varied. The 2003 VW Jetta TDI has the "new belt" and is good to go in the 100,000 k range. I know for certain that lower year model's sit around 80,000 k. I have also read in passing that if you have automatic that the interval is even less. So I would consult either the dealer or the technical manual for the year's specific model.

spiritualquest · July 2003

Actually, I have not drained the filter. I will look at that right away. I just never thought about it, but sounds logical. I was using an additive for much of the 20K that was designed to get rid of the water, and so I thought I was safe. Guess not. Just losen the drain cock on the filter, isn't it?

I am new to diesel engines. This is the first time I have had a symptom of a problem. I just do not want to have it go further and develop a larger problem. If I drain the filter, will the problem go away? Providing the problem is not the timing belt.

My beetle is 2001, and so it has the 50 to 60K timing belt. At least that is what I was told. Since I got my beetle used, I only have half the warrantee-up to 50K miles.

This morning, the car started up the same way. Warmed up, the car runs very well.

I will take it in this week and have a complete check up done on it-including checking the belt. Tune up time anyways. Any other feedback?

ruking1 · July 2003

Since you did not change the filter, I am hazarding a guess that water in fuel is the most likely situation. Be a tad bit careful in that the owners manual and such indicate the fuel filter should be changed every 20k miles and when you do not change it, drained of diesel fuel through the bottom valve on the fuel filter (2-4 oz) every 10k. They also state are not under any obligation to fix it for that problem under warranty, if you do not do this as a maintenance item. If I am reading your post correctly the warranty might be moot due to mileage. Also, as you know, fuel additives can be an emulsifier or a de-emulsifer. I personally use Primrose Powermaster 405, which among other things is an emulsifier. So if it is a water in fuel issue you can probably save an expensive trip to the dealer by DIY.

subkid · July 2003

Hi,

I'm getting ready to jump on the wagon

, so just want to check a few things:

Is it good idea to go Jetta Wagon TDI in Alberta, Canada. Car won't be in the garage, so how is it for starting and initial heating? Is there such thing like car plug for a TDI? I'd appreciate some input from people living in the Canada or American states with similar climate. Also, how does it handle snow/ice? Would ESP be a god idea or just a gimmick?

Another question is what kind of deals are we getting in Canada these days? Are dealers willing to talk about prices or everybody is paying a sticker?

And finally, is 2004 model worth waiting for?

TIA

kid

chmeeee · July 2003

I wouldnt worry about the cold starting. I personally have started mine after sitting overnight at -10 degrees (Fahrenheit), and it started right up (after waiting about 10 seconds for the glow plugs). I have talked to people that have started it in much colder weather as well.

There is a heater you can buy I believe, and it will help you as far as getting heat ASAP when you start up. The TDI does take a few minutes longer than most cars to warm up fully, but the heated seats really help with that.

ESP is a pretty good option, not just a gimmick, but I guess it all depends on how much you trust your driving ability. I know I can do without it.

Can't really help you with the Canada part, but I would suggest waiting for the 2004 model if you are not in a rush to buy. VW will be putting a new TDI engine for 2004, with 100 hp instead of 90. It is supposed to be much smoother though, and it might (don't know for sure) get a bit better mileage.

Good luck with your purchase, if you have more questions, I would suggest you check out the site in my profile (it is THE source for TDI owners).

bpeebles · July 2003

(subkid) Use anti-Gel in the fuel and a plug-in heater for the engine.

Do-it-yourself
http://members.porchlight.ca/benad/zerostart.htm
-or-ready-to-go-kit
http://www.tdiheater.com/

bpeebles · July 2003

On the last fillup, my TDI registerd 54.7MPG. This was with mostly 'country' driving. (40 -50 MPH over rolling hills of Vermont)

I will be leaving on a 1,200 mile trip over the next 2 weeks... I look forward to enjoying fantastic MPG. I am shooting for over 650 miles per fillup. (Gee... that would be only 2 tanks of fuel for the entire trip 8-))

Fuel cost per mile is between 3-4 cents!!!!

ruking1 · July 2003

#670

That for me is truly one of the major advantages to the TDI ! Not only is diesel fuel cheaper and less resource intense to bring to market, but per gal it give much better mileage. On a Jetta 1.8/TDI EPA ratings are between 24/31, 42/49 respectively or 18 mpg MORE.

I get between 44-46 mpg with the A/C running and three persons in the car with app 200# of luggage @ XXX digit cruising speed. I think you would probably get more like 700 and up per tank!! In any case, I hope you enjoy your trip !!!

chmeeee · July 2003

Do you vent your tank when you fill up? If you can get 54.7 mpg, then you should be able to easily hit 800, forget about 650. I normally fill up between 650-750 miles every tank, while commuting in and out of Boston, averaging about 46-48 mpg.

bpeebles · July 2003

Thanks for the encouragemet guys 8-) Yes, I do vent.... I guess I am chicken to suck the tank too low.

Actually, the 5000 mile service was just completed so my TDI is still breaking in. It can only get better as the engine loosens up.

I wonder why when Consumer Reports tested the TDI... they only got 37MPG??? I could get that if I stayed in 3d gear.

Karen_S · July 2003

Have a fun and SAFE trip! :-)

ruking1 · July 2003

Yeah, I think with venting (adding .7 gal-1 gal) and going to the first sound of the low fuel buzzer and at 50 mpg, it will get easily get you to 660 miles and with 2 gal or 100 miles left, you can easily find a refueling station.

Just curious, what TDI oil are/did you go with? While I can't tell a seat of the pants difference, I went with Delvac 1 5w-40.

bpeebles · July 2003

(ruking1) For the 5K mile service, I opted to go with the dealership. As you may know, they are the sole source of the special "Castrol Syntec 5-40" that they use.

For $50, it was not a bad deal to have the dealership look over the vehicle and for me to become aquainted with them.

Certainly the "Mobil Delvac1 5-40" is perhaps the best lubricant available for the TDI... I may go with that later.

The "Shell Rotilla 5-40 synthetic" is also a good oil. (and available at WallMart by the gallon.)

There ate not many lubricants available in NorthAmerica that meet the VW505.1 spec

vzh9p7 · July 2003

Ruking1...in one of the earlier posts, you mentioned an "oil evacuator" that goes down the dipstick opening...sounds like a GREAT idea to me. First, where do you get one of those? And how is it powered (e.g., how does it "suck" the oil out...electric, hand-crank???). Also, are you worried that it doesn't get all the sludge or all the oil out? Just curious there....I really like the idea, but am a little concerned all the "oogie" wouldn't be sucked out...

Care to comment for me? thanks

ruking1 · July 2003

#677

First the bad news, if you have EVER stripped down an engine that has been routinely serviced through the conventional gravity fed oil drain plug, that actually had sludge in it, 2 things become VERY clear:

1. not ALL oil is drained 2. that if the gravity drain were truly able to remove sludge why is it there!!?

With the TDI model's requirement for synthetic oil, synthetic has FAR greater resistance to sludge formation than conventional oil.
(Just this one point alone would be a reason for me to go to synthetic oil) I have been using Mobil One 5W-30 for over 660k miles AND have seen both valve covers and oil pans removed. The usual comments of most of the Toyota Landcruiser mechanics is that the innards are clean as a whistle and the parts show little or NO wear. For the TDI I am using Mobil Delvac 1 5w-40. There are other EXCELLENT oils but for me it was a no brainer to use the other Mobil product. Off topic but I am also seriously considering using Delvac 1 on ALL my vehicles in that the Delvac conforms to both the latest diesel specs and SL and SJ gasser requirements. The ability to stock less products and less product is tempting.

As you probably are aware, MB and more germane, VW OEM actually specifies a model # evacuation tool for oil changes!!

The evacuation tool actually is not only faster (took me all of 10 mins to do the oil change and app 5 min were spent marveling at how fast the oil change went.) and less messy but one does not have to JACK the car up to change the oil. Also the TDI seems to have app 7-10 screws bolts that have to be undone to access the oil drain plug. Combined with the fact that the oil filter canister is to the right of the dip stick (must remove the top engine cover) makes topside access almost a no brainer.

While I don't want to get too technical, Toyota and Corvette for example, specific a minimum 15 min DRAIN time! VW seems to be silent on this issue, but given the design and oil viscosity I would guess it is about the same.

There are many units on the market but two stand out, 1. Pella 6000 (?) 2. Mity Vac

I chose the Mity Vac hand pump (activation) 45 dollars or so.(1.7G capacity) There are models that are electric and air driven also (naturally more money) and have more volume capacity...

You might do a search for one or both models and it will give you dealers that carry these products. I got mine from The Tool Warehouse in NJ.

If I can answer other questions that come up, just fire away.

chmeeee · July 2003

I have used this for my past three oil changes, and it works great. http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisp- lay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=o- n&TEST=Y&productId=465467&categoryId=0
also: http://www.liquivac.com

It is a manual pump, you pressurize it by pumping the arm about 40-50 times, stick the tube into the oil pan, and release the pressure. Pumping it is very similar to using a super-soaker water gun.

vzh9p7 · July 2003

Ruking, thanks for the response. I've got about 500 miles to go...I found both the Pela and Mity-Vac online...either one is about $40 or so, so I'll order one up. I'm still looking for the Mobil oil, but I can still go with the Amsoil is need be. Finally, I seem to remember (from the maintenance schedule), draining the water from the fuel filter while doing oil change...is that as simple a procedure as doing the oil?

Thanks once again,
Jason

ruking1 · July 2003

I would feel comfortable with either the Amsoil or the Delvac 1.

Draining the water from the filter is really very easy! It is the encumberances that are a bit a PITA. There is a plastic twist drain plug on the bottom. All that needs being done is to untwist it and drain 3-5 oz of fuel, then re tighten. In my case there was NO H20 in the fuel. The technical data says to reprime with diesel fuel, but I didn't and it started just fine.

chmeeee · July 2003

You don't actually have to drain the fuel completely, in fact, I do not believe you are supposed to. You should only drain any water that is there, and stop when you get fuel (probably immediately unless you use bad diesel). Since oil sits on top of water, all of the water will come out first.

ruking1 · July 2003

The manual says to drain 100 cm3 of FUEL.

The conversion if I did my math correctly = .02641720 gal x 128 oz per gal = 3.3814016 oz.

If you are installing a NEW filter it says to fill with diesel fuel.

chmeeee · July 2003

Well, IMHO the manual is just trying to give you a guideline in case you cant tell the difference between water and fuel, probably based on a worst case scenario of awful diesel. If they just tell you to use your own judgement, that could cause problems, so they make up a standard. I honestly think that most people dont even need to do this, since most fuel has no water in it, but its definitely a good idea to be sure.

Either way, you can't hurt anything by letting out too much, its just easier to let out a little (you dont have to worry about where to dump it). I guess what I am saying is that I am making a pointless argument. ;-)

spiritualquest · July 2003

I did my 40K service, where a good mechanic checked the timing belt, changed out filters, and checked the computer. The heart murmer did not go away, and the car smoked noticeably when going up hill and accelerating. I was a bit worried. But my only consolation was that this did not bother my mileage which was about 50mpg. I filled up with new diesel and PS cetane booster, and the heart murmer went away, and it stopped smoking noticeably. Runs back to its original wonderful self. So, it was not the timing belt or water in the filter. Had to be the tank of fuel. I cannot wait till the diesel fuel is further refined for better quality and that biodiesel is added for better cetane quality.

sebring95 · July 2003

The only thing you can really do is try to find a quality diesel supplier. If I run BP Supreme (and just because the pump says supreme doesn't mean it is, you have to verify it) I get zero smoke unless I'm accelerating hard (i'm chipped so that's expected). Start-ups are smoke free and the engine idles/runs quieter and smoother.

I have the local distributor deliver BP Supreme to my farm which is really handy because the closest station with Supreme isn't in the most convenient location. I have had circumstances where I've had to fill-up at truck-stops and such, and I can tell the difference immediately. BP Supreme is a low-sulphur (30ppm I think) and high cetane fuel. I don't run any additives when I'm using BP Supreme, although it does get treated with anti-gel in the winter. MPG stays the same regardless of what fuel I run, I just like to run the supreme for environmental and engine smoothness reasons.

My diesel pickups and tractors get the same supreme fuel. Costs me about $.08/gallon more than plain old truck-stop crud. FWIW, my Dodge Cummins doesn't seem to care whether I run plain diesel or Supreme. Pulls the same, runs the same, etc. I've never gotten smoke out of this new Cummins (2003 HO) even with a 16,000# load and wide-open throttle.

spiritualquest · July 2003

I thank you for the advice. I wish I could put a 500 gal. tank at my house. I do not own the land or the house. I am a pastor, and the house has been donated to the church. So, I have no choice but try to find a good premium diesel dealer. I will look. Maybe I can get a few diesel containers and fill them up and keep them at my house instead. Not sure. Maybe I can get a smaller tank-possibly 250 gallons. I will look at options.

All I know is that these cars run best the higher the cetane level in the fuel. And I would pay the difference.

ruking1 · July 2003

Well Pastor/Spiritualquest, while you didn't mention your residing state, I have a 49/50 chance in guessing you are using a 40 CZ cetane #2 diesel fuel.

The 2003 VW Jetta TDI technical data specifies the TDI or AHL engine at 49 CZ cetane.

First of all, diesel #2 fuel is legally mandated to be delivered at the pump with a min of 40 CZ cetane rating in 49/50 states. Given fungibility issues, it would almost be RARE to find a distributor that somehow delivered better than that.

CA diesel #2 diesel is legally mandated to be delivered at the pump with a min of 45 CZ cetane.

So for better or worse in 49/50 states 40 CZ cetane is probably as good as it gets. In fact, to boost the cetane can be done easily with the cetane boosting product of your choice. (P/S can do a 3 and 6 point boost (cost: 3 cents per gal and 6 cents per gal respectively) depending on self administered dilution). So by using cetane booster you are already doing the correct "corrective" action. So if you see a supplier vendor that offers 43 and or 46 CZ at the price of 3/6 cents or less, they are doing it cheaper than DIY, and it would make economic sense. If not, DIY, which I got from your post, you are already doing.

The official VW OEM position is: there is no requirement to run fuel additives.

bellaisola · July 2003

I was looking for some advice with regard to what a fair (ballpark) price is for a 2000 Jetta, TDI, 45,000 miles, GL version (manual windows, no sunroof, basic stereo/cassette, cloth interior, 5spd manual). Dealer is asking $16K. I was also concerned about the timing belt issue; i.e. does the 2000 model have the 50K mile belt? What do the 2003 models sell for?

spiritualquest · July 2003

Yes, I am from Iowa, and I think your are right about the rating for the fuel. I will take your advice. I wonder. What is the cetane rating for biodiesel? Would a good biodiesel blend be a good alternative during the summer A little too rich for my blood, but I would consider the cost. Nice to know someone knows something about this fuel. I wish they were more regulated and posted.

ruking1 · July 2003

We have a few truck stops that offer biodiesel but when #2 was 1.79 and biodiesel was like 2.67?-2.99, I didn't even have to lie down till the thought went away!?

Current corner store #2 diesel is 1.64. On interstates or major truck highways it is app 1.39. Again CA #2 diesel @ 45 CZ cetane.

About 2 mo ago on the eastern seaboard (RI) #2 diesel corner store was 1.99.

vzh9p7 · July 2003

Ruking, here in Michigan, I'm currently paying about $1.30-1.40 for regular diesel. The prices have a tendency to go down here in the summer, as I believe the blends change (no low-temperature stuff), while the gas prices go up. It is kind of ironic...right now there's a 30 cent difference between diesel and gas. In winter, basically the opposite happens; gas prices tend to go down, while diesel goes up. But there's still a .15 difference (diesel being cheaper). There are a couple places in the area (e.g., within 60 miles or so), that sell bio- fuels...just none real close.

Bellaisola, I looked high and low for a used TDI when I bought mine; and really came up with only two or three. I believe one was a 2001, auto, with 70K miles they were asking 10K for...the other was a 2000, 5-speed, 98000 miles for I think 8K (it has been a while). The price you have seems kind of high...All together (with tax, title, prep, etc.), I paid about 19K out the door for my new (2003) 5-speed...and it has more "stuff" than the older models.

By the way, Ruking....thanks for all the help and advice...it is greatly appreciated.

Jason

sebring95 · July 2003

That seems like a fairly high price based on what I've seen around. (for sale forums, ebay, etc). I've been paying attention because I may be selling/trading mine in the near future to get a Passat TDI when they become available. I have a '00 GLS with 68k miles, cloth, power everything, alloys, cd changer, and a few power enhancements. Based on what I've seen I would likely get $11,000 for mine. A base model with only 23k less miles for $5,000 more seems a bit out of hand. I've watched a couple low mileage '02 GLS models sell for $18,000. Keep shopping. I can give you a couple excellent sources for finding nice used TDI's if you'd like to email me. Sebring95@excite.com

AS for the timing belt, if it's an automatic, the '00 would have a 40k mile timing belt. If it's not been changed, that can be expensive (and down right fraud by some dealers). A five-speed is good for 80k miles.

midnightcowboy · July 2003

ould someone tell me what thier manual actually says.

The VW service Manager said sysnthetic oil every 5,000 miles and a timing belt change every 40000 miles.

However, I have heard from others first oil change at 5,000 then every 10,000 miles and timing belt at 100,000

What does the manual say ?

chmeeee · July 2003

For the 2k3, every 80,000 for the t-belt, and oil changes at 5k, 10k, 20k, 30k.... etc. The dealer just wants your money real bad. ;-)

moparbad · July 2003

The manual states 80K for timing belt change on 2002 TDI and it was revised for 2003 to 100K miles. This applies to both manual and auto transmissions.

vzh9p7 · August 2003

Ruking....got my MityVac 7200 oil changing machine today...too cool! Very nicely made; can't wait to actually change the oil. However, do you clean this thing out when you're done? Although I'm not expecting to see as much sludge and gunk, I've noticed, over the years, how "gummy" the regular oil pans get. If you clean it, how? Thinner or something? Or do you just not worry about it. It wasn't terribly expensive...but I like to take care of things.

ruking1 · August 2003

I called mity vac's technical? or customer service? The person did mention that mineral spirits would work.

Thinking back about it, it would seem to me a product like simple green would work just as well. I have never had a problem with simple green on plastic or silicon seals.

bpeebles · August 2003

If you use any of the 3 lubricants that are available in North America, there will be no "gunk" buildup in the oilpan.

Oils that meet the VW spec for the TDI will not "gunk" like dino-oils will.

only SAE 5W-40 should be used.... you choose which one;
Mobil Delavac1
Shell Rotella synthetic
dealer-supplied Castrol SYNTEC

If you are concerned about leaving metal shavings and other nasties in the pan.... YES! you will be doing that by using a sucker to remove the oil from the dipstick tube.

Removing the drainplug on a level surface allowing plenty of time for drippage is most effective at removing all of the nasties from the pan. Allowing 20-30 minutes of draintime is not uncommon. (ALWAYS DRAIN OIL FROM A HOT ENGINE TO GET ALL OF THE NASTIES IN SUSPENSION!!)

ruking1 · August 2003

We in the TDI community have an interesting anomoly when it comes to oil drainage and oil dipstick measurement.

I have two Landcruisers, that as soon as you turn off the ignition and raise the hood (1-2 min max) you can wipe the dipstick, reinsert and pull out again for an accurate measure. max/add, middle area, you are OK! and the difference between max and add is ta dah: 1 quart!! You can also take this measurement overnight and it is still the same. Not exactly rocket science and pretty clear!

On my other two vehicles, Corvette Z06 and the VW Jetta TDI seem to want to elevate this TO rocket science !!!

If you have read the oil level measuring procedure, for both vehicles you will know over time you can get different measures!!??? But the OEM does not give you a range of time!! The most germane point for the hot oil extraction in the TDI, is that of you let the car cool for say an hour or more you are actually draining from a larger pool!!! And if you let it drain longer, even more also. So in fact if you drain it while it is hot you are actually leaving a lot of oil in the vehicle which negates all the "nastys" being held in suspension. (in the TDI, overnight as much as 1/2 quart)
The owners manual for the TDI says specifically not to take an overnight reading because it will not be "accurate". By process of elimination, this means that MORE oil will hit the gravity sump rendering the measurement "overfilled"

vwinva · August 2003

Just bought a 2002 Jetta TDI GLS automatic. Since I am pumping 500+ miles/week I am looking for ideas to boost the MPG. 80% Interstate, 20% local. Have been looking at chips, boxes, K&N filters, cetane boosters. Would like to know from those who have already used any/all of these what worked, what didn't and what the pitfalls are.

bpeebles · August 2003

(vwinva) Cetane improvers help improve MPG, reduce smoking, and run quieter.... up to a point.

For fuels available in NorthAmerica.... a cetane booster will help. (except perhaps in Texas, where I understand that the cetane at the pumps is higher by law.)

FWIW... Since briand new, My TDI has been getting between 4-6 oz of the GREY BOTTLE (PowerService Diesel Kleen + Cetane boost)avaialable at wallmart. (the WHITE BOTTLE is for winter use.)

rpkvjk · August 2003

What is the relationship between horsepower and torque? I've read in previous posts that you need to shift within the torque band to achieve maximum acceleration with the TDI. If acceleration is based on torque then what difference does horsepower make?

bpeebles · August 2003

(rpkvjk)The "relationship" that you ask about is a simple equation.

Horsepower * 5252
Torque = -----------------
RPM

TORQUE is the actual measurement that is take from an engine or the drive wheels. The HORSEPOWER is derived by applying the above formula.

Instead of suggesting that you take a basic physics course or ask any HighSchool kid ;-) ... I am providing the following link that explains it all.

http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/torqueHP.htm

rpkvjk · August 2003

(bpeebles) Thanks for the link. It was very helpful.

dieselbreath · August 2003

Simply put, Torque is the FORCE, whereas HP is power or resultant work applied.
On your electrical bill, you pay for power.
But if you want to do things with electricity you need Voltage. The power is in KiloWatts.
1 HP = around 720 watts, or 0.72 KiloWatts..

If you understand electricity, then the analogy is that TORQUE == VOLTAGE, RPM == CURRENT, and HP == KiloWatts

Computationally, F=mA (force = mass x acceleration).
Thus, acceleration = FORCE over MASS. and the force comes from the TORQUE at the drive wheel divided by the RADIUS of the drive wheel (with the radius of the wheel being the length of the LEVER technically)

POWER = TORQUE X REVS (times a constant)
Power measures how rapidly you are transfering energy.

Larger engines (and European engines) develop power with high torque at mid-speed or lower.
Smaller engines (especially Japanese) develop power with LOW TORQUE at HIGH REVs. In theory, this is the same power, except you can't use it.
The problem is that you hit peak power at the red-line, and then have to shift, dropping revs below the high torque and power speed.

That's why the high performance Civic, rated at higher power, is not as fast at 0-60 MPH as a 1.8T VW Golf, even though the Golf weighs a couple of hundred pounds more.

German cars make power at useful revs compared to Japanese cars, and that's why 200 German HP are worth about 300 Japanese HP in the real world.
(here come the flames already)

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