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Experience with e-mail only negotiations?

124

Comments

  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    "E-Mail contact only" are usually non buyers. I'm happy to e-mail these people but I usually (not always) don't hear back from them.

    I don't blame them for not responding to you. They asked you for an email quote, and you didn't give it to them.

    I don't blame you for your hesitancy to give an online quote, I see the potential that you see for it being shopped, and if the "buyer" is actually a mole trying to figure out how you do business, you've given him a lot of information about how you do business. (You see, I actually do see your side of the table.)

    But the thing is, these buyers don't take you seriously, either. They figure that you are going to attempt the usual showroom upsell on them that they are trying to avoid by shopping online, which is why they are using the internet in the first place. And they're probably right.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I reply to their emails promptly. I explain that I would be more than happy to provide them a quote, just not in writing. First of all, I want to make very sure I know exactly what they are looking for. Often the info they provide isn't about the car they really want.

    And, I don't want to give them a writen quote they can print and gleefully shop around.

    I will also invite them to share with me what they are hearing. It's not often I will lose a deal over dollars.

    Once in awhile, I will get a perosn who bluntly let's me know that unless I put a hard number in writing they will take me off their list.

    My approach usually works however.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    I explain that I would be more than happy to provide them a quote, just not in writing.

    Put yourself in the buyer's position.

    -This particular buyer is trying to buy a car with minimal dealer interaction.

    -He find a website that says, "CLICK FOR AN EMAIL QUOTE." Thinking that technology is his friend, he does so.

    -Then, you don't give him a quote.

    Now, some of those buyers weren't serious, but others were. Of the serious buyers, some didn't mind your response and were willing to be flexible. But others are a bit skeptical or miffed because you didn't give them the quote that was promised.

    The dealership lied to the customer before he even showed up at the dealer. This guy has his doubts, and goes to the JMurman's of this world who actually give quotes to buyers. That might not harm your overall bottom line (you may be working leads that are easier to deal with or who pay more), but you may be losing customers who you don't even know about. You've assumed that they're not buying, but unless you know exactly who they are and then track their purchases, you don't really know.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Nowhere on our website does it say we will provide a written quote. Other websites probably do say this in which case you would be correct.

    I probably do lose a few but the majority I do not.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Nowhere on our website does it say we will provide a written quote. Other websites probably do say this in which case you would be correct.

    My comments were intended to be generic, as I don't know what's on your specific website.

    If I understand correctly, it sounds as if our previous poster here sent out requests for 12 quotes, and got one back. I'm sure that you can understand how when this experience is duplicated across the country, many thousands of times, that many customers are going to become skeptical about what to expect.

    On the other hand, I would think those dealers who deliver as promised would have a competitive advantage, especially now when they seem to be in the minority. The buyer who goes via the internet is, I am going to guess, at least as interested in an easy purchase experience as they are about price. I'm sure that some would choose the straightshooter over those with the "set an appointment" approach, even if the cost was a bit higher, if just to have an easier time of it.
  • nynewcarnynewcar Member Posts: 89
    Socal makes my point better than I ever could, but I'll tack on some comments anyway --

    My approach usually works however.

    Then you should continue doing what works.

    But frankly, you are deluding yourself if you think that the kind of reply you describe is meaningful in any way. To me, it's just another version of "come on down to the dealership" with the extra benefit of trying to get me to do your research for you by "inviting me" to "share what I heard" from others. If that's what you send me, you're just wasting your time, and you may as well not engage in this venue and just stick to walk-ins or however you find your customers. Not only are you perpetuating every unfortunate stereotype I have about car dealers, you're making yourself look even worse in comparison to any competitors who sent me a response worth pursuing.

    Please don't get me wrong. It's your prerogative to be short-sighted, or as Socal put it so articulately, to be content with "low hanging fruit." I have no complaint whatsoever. I don't think clicking on a "get a quote" request entitled me to anything, although I also don't think I was wrong to hope and expect that I would, uhm, "get a quote" from at lease some of the dealers.

    But as it played itself out, I learned that it was worthwhile in ways I hadn't anticipated. Some replies made me decide to visit the dealership, while the evasive, canned replies like the ones you describe let me cross others off my list. Some of those dealers may genuinely be honest and fair, and maybe it's a shame that we'll never meet, but then again, I invited them to audition, and they’re the ones who chose the script.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Once again....

    You don't have to come down to our dealership. All you have to do is CALL ME and I'll give you a quote!

    My replies are not evasive, nor are they canned. I don't use templates. If your goal is to get a hard number in writing that you can shop all over town, you'll have to get that from someone else.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    You don't have to come down to our dealership. All you have to do is CALL ME and I'll give you a quote!

    But he doesn't want to call you.

    That's why customers like him chose to use the internet. They dislike the phone calls and "come on down" routine.

    Obviously, not every consumer uses email with the same expectations, so some won't mind going into the dealer, or will just give up trying to avoid the dealer. But some of these buyers hate the idea, which is why you are losing them. Just because they don't like traditional shopping methods doesn't mean that they don't want to buy at all.
  • mirthmirth Member Posts: 1,212
    But he doesn't want to call you.

    That's why customers like him chose to use the internet. They dislike the phone calls
    ...
    But some of these buyers hate the idea, which is why you are losing them.


    You are assuming that isell is losing a ton of internet business because he won't send out an email quote. Or that his dealership will eventually go under because they are stuck in the "dark ages". But there's definitely a middle ground. The internet is a wonderful thing, but it is not the be-all end-all that some think it is, as the dot com implosion should have indicated to us. It's a tool, nothing more. isell has found that the tool provides more business and profit to him if he simply uses it to get a phone number contact, and he loses business if he sends out a printable quote for some other dealership to beat by $50. You don't have to like it but he's using the internet wisely to maximize his profit.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    You are assuming that isell is losing a ton of internet business because he won't send out an email quote. Or that his dealership will eventually go under because they are stuck in the "dark ages"

    I never said any such thing. I thought that I made it clear that in his mind, he may be generating enough business from his current methods to be sufficient for the business, and that what he is doing may be more efficient, i.e. a given amount of effort generates more revenues or profits by not serving customers such as the New Yorker posting here.

    However, he takes it too far by assuming that everyone who doesn't play by his rules is a flake and not a serious buyer, or that this group of "rule breakers" is not viable enough to generate additional profits for his business. It may or may not be true, but it's a guess on his part, and unless he tracks those who don't buy from him, he doesn't really know.

    By the way, I actually prefer the "dinosaur" methods, because it allows me to get a better deal. If the business moves toward more of a one-price internet model, this will end up costing me a fair bit of cash, so I'm not exactly looking forward to it.
  • mirthmirth Member Posts: 1,212
    By the way, I actually prefer the "dinosaur" methods, because it allows me to get a better deal. If the business moves toward more of a one-price internet model, this will end up costing me a fair bit of cash, so I'm not exactly looking forward to it.

    Well, I certainly agree with you there.
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,382
    IMHO the only "dinosaur" lurking in this topic is the dealer who refuses to understand the power and potential of internet sales.

    Those who play games with customers who request quotes don't get the business, at least not mine.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    IMHO the only "dinosaur" lurking in this topic is the dealer who refuses to understand the power and potential of internet sales.

    Those who play games with customers who request quotes don't get the business, at least not mine.


    Well, to be fair, I would expect different dealers to segment the market differently. Dealers who use the straightshooter, up-front-quote pricing are likely going to pursue volume over margins, a strategy that is not appropriate (from the dealer's standpoint) for every brand or every dealership.

    Isell is one of those salespeople who tries to generate higher prices by using sales techniques meant to get you to focus on other things (love of product, relationship with the dealership, etc.), rather than price. Other dealers are willing to trade a relatively modest price -- perhaps not the very lowest available to a good negotiator, but maybe pretty good -- in exchange for doing higher volume. And others still may quote prices that are actually pretty high, but hope that their approach, service, etc. will get you to look past that, and to stop hunting. And so on.

    I think that you have to accept that they may be just be going for different customers, and don't mind losing more of the ones who don't match their main profile. He can't win everyone over, so he has to pick-and-choose, and go for the ones who are most likely to payoff as he defines it. he downside to this is that you have to accept that some or even many dealers won't always keep their word, and not deliver the quote as promised.

    And now the flip side: They have their reasons, but those reasons don't do you, the customer, much good, and anybody who is in business must know that ultimately, the customer is always right because he can take his money elsewhere, which makes him the important voter in the election. The dealers shouldn't be surprised when some customers get upset, particularly that many buyers already have their guards up and take these little lies as a sign that bigger ones are yet to come.
  • pernaperna Member Posts: 521
    IMHO the only "dinosaur" lurking in this topic is the dealer who refuses to understand the power and potential of internet sales.

    Those who play games with customers who request quotes don't get the business, at least not mine.


    I'm an IT manager, and I've worked with computers since I was 12-13 years old. I live and breathe the things.

    The Internet is a great tool, no doubt, and it's priceless for looking at dealer inventories. Searching for a used car is WORLDS easier. It used to be you'd go to a few lots, make some phone calls, and still only end up with about 50% of your "wants/needs" in whatever car you drove home. Using a web browser, I can pinpoint the exact car I want anywhere in the country.

    I'm sorry to say that using e-mail to interface with a car dealer is just stupid and a waste of time. I've never sold cars, but with my e-mail experience I imagine it goes a lot like this:

    -------------------
    From: Customer
    To: Dealer

    HI I'M LOOKIN G FOR A CAMRY PLEASE GIVE ME A PRICE THX
    -------------------
    From: Dealer
    To: Customer

    Good afternoon,

    What option packages/color are you looking for in your Camry? Please call Doug at 233-267-1234 so we can discuss and I can get you a price!
    --------------------
    From: Customer
    To: Dealer

    I WANT A WHITE CAMARY
    --------------------
    From: Dealer
    To: Customer

    Good evening,

    What options would you like on your white Camry? We have 5 in stock with varying option packages.
    --------------------
    From: Customer
    To: Dealer

    I WANT AIR AND CRUISE
    --------------------
    From: Dealer
    To: Mom

    Hi Mom,

    I should have listened to you and become a doctor.
    ---------------------

    My point is that it's a waste of time. If our intrepid customer had just picked up the phone or stopped by the dealership, s/he could have gotten a price in about 5 minutes. Instead, an entire day is wasted e-mailing back and forth.

    If you want to get the best price on a DVD player, the Internet is great. This is buying a CAR. It's not like you're going to be buying one every other month, just pick up the phone. I work with computers, I don't like talking to people either, but sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Fact of life: Some people want to make a deal over the internet. No phone calls or face-to-face discussions.

    Fact of life: These people have money to spend on a new car.

    Therefore, a sales person who learns to deal with these people can make some money.

    A sales person who doesn't want to deal with people like this does not get their money.

    The sales person can decide what they want to do.
  • pernaperna Member Posts: 521
    Fact of life: Some people want to make a deal over the internet. No phone calls or face-to-face discussions.

    Fact of life: These people have money to spend on a new car.

    Therefore, a sales person who learns to deal with these people can make some money.

    A sales person who doesn't want to deal with people like this does not get their money.

    The sales person can decide what they want to do.


    It's not quite that simple.

    If a salesman is sitting behind a computer wasting time with the same person e-mailing back and forth, that is time they could be taking ups or working sales leads. So I wouldn't look at the salesman who does the e-mail thing as certainly making "more money", it could actually be costing them.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I get a few of these people who just won't pick up the phone. I'm friendly and I don't bite!

    After about six back and forth interchanges, I tend to lose interest.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    "I wouldn't look at the salesman who does the e-mail thing as certainly making 'more money'"

    I agree. That's why I didn't say it.
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,382
    "[J]ust stupid and a waste of time[?] Hmmm...let's see. Since 2000 I've bought the following new vehicles over the web:

    -2001 PT Cruiser;
    -2002 Chevy Avalance;
    -2003 Mazdaspeed Protege; and a
    -2003 Pontiac Bonneville.

    In each instance, it was short and sweet - just give me your best price. A couple of emails later, I was on my way to pick up the vehicle (ALL of which were acquired from out of town dealers thus giving each a sale they otherwise wouldn't have had).

    In the same period I've bought 3 new Hondas sans internet -all from the same salesman. I also decided against another Honda based on a lousy in-person experience.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    That is exactly how the majority of emails from people looking for cars on the internet look like.

    I have sold many cars to people who first contaced me purely on the internet but all of them gave me enough information to help them. Either they gave enough information in the original email for me to get a price for them right away or after asking for more info they called/emailed me with the additional information.
  • ctxctx Member Posts: 50
    I bought my car over the internet. Had done my research, nailed down exactly what I wanted, found out what people were getting for it and sent my requests. If a dealer was ambiguous I asked for an itemised quote and got it. The last dealer I dealt with (after one email to clarify things) sent me an itemized quote and I went with it as it was the best deal and exactly what I thought I should pay. . In fact a dealer who got beat out said for sure it was a "bait and switch" and told me to get the sales order faxed to me. I did and (no bait and switch) got exactly the vehicle I wanted at the price I wanted.

    Clearly this works for some and not others. I found being able to get multiple requests while not wasting hours at various dealerships was priceless.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Key part of that is you knew exactly what you wanted. Most people do not know exactly what they want and instead try and spend three days emailing back and foth figuring it out. That is if they even respond back to my email in the first place.
  • raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    If they aren't clear as to their needs hit'em hard and fast with the cheapest car in your inventory and they'll either clarify what they are looking for, show up in person or blow you off altogether. Saves time and energy, plus it shows you're willing to work with them.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I sell Rovers the cheapest car in our inventory if they are looking at a Range Rover is 76,650 dollars.

    The cheapest new car period is 38,000 dollars for a retired service loaner.
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    I believe post #175, #176 and #177 says it all in very plain language.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    I've never sold cars, but with my e-mail experience I would imagine it goes a lot like this

    LOL. That's some imagination.
    I'm surprise the first email didn't look something like this.
    ----------------
    From: Customer
    To: Dealer

    High, im loking fer a car. Can i git yur best price... on a car? Plez

    ----------------

    Since you're so good with computers, why not just click on a couple icons and send the customer what "Camarys" you have in stock? He can email back what he wants a price on. Sounds pretty easy...if one is truely interested in making internet sales a priority, instead of just to get the foot traffic in.

    My personal experience, and others that I have read here on Edmunds, is that 90% of the time, even with the model and options clearly specified, you don't get the frequently and highly advertised "free quote". So, let's not be putting all the blame on the "ignert" customer.

    If there is a lot of wasted time emailing back and forth, then perhaps dealerships need to think a little bit about the process and how to make it easier & quicker.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    Wouldn't it be kind of nice if you could build the vehicle you're interested in (new or used) on Edmunds or on the manufacturer website, and have that specific vehicle's details mailed to the dealership? That would eliminate a lot of the back-and-forth due to missing information. A comment box could be included to for notes such as "I'd be willing to look at an 03 OR an 04, and while I'd like heated seats, they're not a dealbreaker."

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  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    That would be a good idea. Edmunds has a box to check for trim line and a comment box. So, maybe an additional box for option packages. Or,something to direct the customer to a Edmunds "build it" or options page with "clear" direction to be specific on what the customer wants when making specifications in the comment box.

    There are a multitude of ways to steam line the process and make it more efficient. That's if the dealership is truly interested in more internet sales and not a ploy just to increase foot traffic...or phone calls.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    That would be agood idea, however; I know this can be done at the Chrysler website. Probably some of the other major mfg. websites also.
  • raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    We had that at Priceline. Edmunds has a comment box that some people take advantage of to clarify their needs.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I keep telling my self I won't read these type of threads anymore but this one at least stays marginaly civil so...

    The internet requests we get from some sites actually have a format so people can fill in all of that information.

    The problem is most people dont use it.

    I have right in front of me an internet request for a range rover. I will type down exactly what it says. Anything in () is my commentary.

    Make: Land Rover
    Model: Range Rover
    Year: 2006

    (This is normaly filled in although sometimes the year is incorrect because most people assume we have left over 2005 MY vehicles still. I understand that as most makes do have left overs right now but we have not since January.)

    Style: HSE 4dr AWD / Package: HSE
    Interior Color: Blank
    Exterior Color: Blank
    Transmission: Transmision: 6-Speed Auto w/Comandshift
    Engine: Engine 4.4l 32-Valve V8

    (ok now everything in the above with the expetion of the color choices is filled automaticly as standard features. He didn't put in a color though which is not really a problem it just makes me assume he will list several colors he is interested in the comment section that I have not gotten to yet)

    Options: STDEN: 4.4L 32-Valve V8
    STDTN: Transmission: 6-Speed Automatic W/Commandshift
    STDAX: 3.73 Axel Ratio
    STDGV: GVWR: 6,384 lbs
    STDTR: Tires: P255/55R19
    STDWL: Wheels: 19" x 8.0" Aluminium Alloy
    STDST: Front Bucket Seats
    STDTM: Blenheim Leather-Faced Seat Trim
    PAINT: Monotone Paint Applications
    STDRD: Radio: Harmon/Kardon Logic7 Audio System

    (Ok whoooo lot of standard features. Now this system is of course set up to work with many different types of vehicles. The Range Rover Just happens to have very few options so almost eveything is standard. If this guy had selected the optionsl 20 inch wheel and tires package it would have listed that on the STDS/STDWL section. Now I am starting to get worried because he did not select any options at all not even the heated accesories package. This makes me think he is just a kid playing on the internet and probably did not even look at the options package.)

    Comments:
    Payment Method:

    (Hmhh ok so both blank that is a real bad sign this is almost a total waste of my time now. All I know is that they guy is interested in a Range Rover and all I have is his name zip code and email address with no comments at all.)

    Currenty Vehicle
    Trade-in YES
    Make:
    Model:
    Year:
    MIleage:
    Comments:
    (Hmhh ok so he is trading in a car but he won't spend two more minutes to tell me anything about the car at all. Now I am convinced nothing will happen with this at all but luckily we don't get many internet based requests so I have time to send him a short email thanking him for his request and telling him we have several Range Rovers in stock with various colors and the two major options, Luxury interior and Rear Seat entertainment. If he would like information on a particular color or optioned vehicle or to set up an appoointment just email me back or give me a call.

    I email him this along with some other information and he of course never calls me back or emails me back. That was three weeks ago. I sent one more follow up email when we got another Range Rover in stock and told him what its color and options were and he still never replied back. He is probably on some internet board somewhere complaining that I did not send him a quote like he asked too.)
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    Oh, I'm sure - but some of those fields should be mandatory (like color), even if "any" is one of the options, just so that they have to take time to fill it in.

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  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    I keep telling my self I won't read these type of threads anymore but this one at least stays marginally civil so...

    British_Rover-- I hope that you don't leave. I enjoy reading your "customer interaction" posts.

    I just wish a motorhome salesman would post over in "Purchasing Motorhomes" section and tell his/her interactions with customers.

    I'll never forget my Mercedes salesman telling me a story about a husband and wife who came into his dealership wanting to look at a Mercedes. They apparently drove about 100 miles away to get to the dealership. When the couple arrived and met my salesman, they were going on and on about getting a speeding ticket. And the lady tells my salesman, "you are going to pay for it!" My salesman said, "I'm sure we can work it into the price". Can you believe it?

    I saw my salesman the other day at the DMV... we were both renewing our tags. He is retired now after selling Mercedes for over 30 years. I wish he would tell me more stories! :P

    Mark :D
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • nynewcarnynewcar Member Posts: 89
    I have to commend the dealers who are posting here because at least you're open to the idea of change. Also, paradoxically, I think it would probably be very pleasant to actually deal with any of you in a showroom, because just by participating in this discussion, it looks like you're at least willing to listen to someone else, which is not always the case with car salesmen.

    But here's what I'm seeing: "Our typical online quote request is so incoherent, there's just no point in trying to work with these people, we may as well give up." That shows me that there's still an underlying resistance to the basic concept.

    Perhaps that's understandable, but if you truly want to work effectively with this sector, I think you have to make a sea change in your thinking. Embrace the idea of online shopping as being a new, welcome source of potential profits that you can't afford to ignore - and the details will work themselves out. Approach it as a "given," and you will find the right formula to sort 'em out and get a productive dialogue going with the "serious" prospects.

    And as I've said before, only you can decide whether it's feasible. You have access to information we don't. You know how your overall sales are doing, how many online requests you get and how many of those are indeed incoherent, "not serious," or not worthy of replies for other reasons, and how much it costs you to turn an online "looker" into a real-life "buyer."

    Just understand that if you decide this sector is worth pursuing, you can't simply transpose your real-life strategies into cyberspace. You need to understand that the tactics that make car dealers so unpopular, no matter how effective you claim they are, are not only going to fail with your online customers, but they're going to backfire really badly. The online shopping experience is fundamentally different from real life shopping in large part because of how easily it lets shoppers compare you to your competitors.

    If you have a customer "captive" in your showroom, you might be able to coax them into staying there long enough to win them over. But online, if your opening line doesn't answer their question in any meaningful way, you lost that prospect in the time it takes to find the delete key.

    Also, if you want to work effectively with your online shoppers, you have to understand why they're online and not in your showroom. If they ask for a quote and you reply by telling them to "come on down and we'll put you in the best car ever," you're just affirming the reason they avoided your showroom to begin with. Click, and you're history.

    I may be generalizing but I believe that online shoppers are online because they want to make an informed purchase. Their research is a much bigger factor in the decision than their emotions. You won't win them over by trying to romance them into loving the car or loving the dealership. They want to buy a car knowledgeably, efficiently, and at a fair price. You'll win them over if that's what you give them - knowledge, efficiency, and a fair price. In my humble opinion, of course. :)
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    called make me a better online salesman where I was trying to keep a log of all of my internet customers. I tried to show how the worded their request and how I responded and if they ever responded back.

    That thread eventually got shut down because of all the negativity in it.

    In general though I will say this.

    Most of our internet requests do not have a clear question worded at all. They either dont say what kind of car they want or they don't actually ask for a price quote either a lease or a purchase. The internet request I reposted above is a good example of that. There was a some what clear vehicle involved but they never said what they were looking for. Were they looking for a purchase quote? Lease quote? Checking on avaliblity? I don't know they never told me.

    The best I can do is aknowledge that the person sent in a request, thank them for their request and ask them to contact me if they have any questions.

    95% of them never contact me back.

    Of the 5% that do contact me none have ever bought a car from me.

    I would say that the majority of internet requests that actualy have an adequate amount of information in them go somewhere. I may not get a sale out of it but I do get a chance to email the customer a few times and figure out what they are looking for. I can answer their questions build a bit of a relationship and I keep them on my email list to let them know when new things pop up.

    If a transaction results in a sale rarely does it go completly on the internet. There are so few Land Rover dealers around and our cars are such limited production that most people have never driven one before. They want to drive it first before they buy it.

    In my memory people that I have first gotten into contact with from an internet request that have actually come into the dealership for one reason or another to look at a Land Rover have bought one. I can only think of three people who have come in and not bought one. I can only actually completly right off one of those three as well the other two are still up in the air and I have semi-regular contact with them.

    RE: Mark and the Mercedes salesman story.

    I was working a deal once a few months ago with a guy who was a phone customer. He came in with his friend from New York to look at a used Lexus. On the way here they got a speeding ticket for 208 dollars. (Keep this in mind as it is the point to the whole story)

    Now this particular lexus was already priced at basicly a wholesale level because it was going to auction at the end of the week. Threfore we really could not give up more then 750 dollars. Anymore then that and we would be better off sending it to auction as we would make more money there even after auction fees.

    They came in and their initial offer was about 4,000 dollars less then what we were asking of $25,888 . I explained the situation that this car was already priced at pretty much a wholesale level and the most I could give up was 500 dollars. I was not going to drop my pants all the way up front.

    They said nope 21,888 was their final offer. I showed them what we owned and that it was already priced below that. Then I showed them the latest auction book so that they could see they were buying to car at nearly wholesale. I am talking real wholesale too as the auction book was brand new that day and the car at auction should do right about that. They repeated their final offer and I said well have a safe drive back to New York because I will send the car to auction before I sell it at that price.

    They didn't leave. They kept trying to get me to come down. I would not. They started bumping themselves up. As the hours, yes that is right hours, went by we reached an impase. They still wanted about 1,500 dollars off and I only had 250 more to give. I asked them how much their speeding ticket was because I had forgotten. I offered to discount the car in an amount equal to their speeding ticket.

    They thought about it for a minute and accepted. We delivered the car two days later.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    But here's what I'm seeing: "Our typical online quote request is so incoherent, there's just no point in trying to work with these people, we may as well give up." That shows me that there's still an underlying resistance to the basic concept.

    Basic differences:

    -Many customers start using the internet at the beginning of the shopping process. Many want info to test the waters, including about cars that they know very little about or may not buy. (At this point, they are still browsing or comparison shopping.)

    -Dealers working the internet want buyers who are ready to go now. They don't want to educate people who either won't buy or who will use that education to buy from someone else.

    As long as buyer expectations don't match the salespeoples' desire to close a relatively high ratio of deals, this disconnect will continue. Someone who sells a low volume product such as a Land Rover may find this to be even less desirable, because they gun for higher per-unit margins than most other makes.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    A national personal finance magazine is looking to interview consumers who have recently used Edmunds.com and its True Market Value pricing guide to successfully negotiate a good deal. Please send an e-mail to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Friday, June 30, 2006 by 2:00 PM PST/5:00 EST containing your daytime contact information and what car you purchased.



    Thanks,

    Chintan Talati

    Corporate Communications

    Edmunds.com
  • adam_madisonadam_madison Member Posts: 2
    Hi,
    I found another dealer (Zimbrick Honda of Madison), and sold the car private party. Zimbrick provided a better price and were forthright with what they could and could not do, as opposed to Bergstrom of Oshkosh.

    rant:
    I have found from commiserating sessions with others that Bergstrom is in general engaged in a somewhat systematic program of subterfuge.
    Count on Bergstrom Motors of Oshkosh to quote high and fabricate fairy-tales when the customer is in the showroom. /rant

    Regards,
    Adam
  • berthawunbunberthawunbun Member Posts: 5
    I want to buy a used car and would like to do the negotiations on line but I am not sure what steps I need to follow. Should I visit the dealer and test drive the vehicle and then come home to do the negotiations on line? Or should I negotiate first and then visit the dealer for a test drive when I am satisfied with the price? Thanks in advance.
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    I am not a professional when it comes to cars, new or used....but it seems to me if you have your mind set on a particular USED CAR...how can you negotiate..... without first looking at it, having it checked out, Carfax and driving it??? You would have no idea what to negotiate!!!!!
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    A lot of people don't look at the car first, but I sure would,especially on a used car. It would also show the dealership you are serious about buying, having looked at the vehicle first. Get the vehicles vin number, and write down any noticeable scratches, dents, etc. and the mileage...as the mileage is sometimes rounded down.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • gasman1gasman1 Member Posts: 321
    I'm not a car salesperson or work for any dealership...

    Used car - you MUST check-out and/or drive the car before you negotiate via internet, fax, phone, or in person. There's no need to negotiate and then find out that you don't want the car.

    New car - you MUST know that this is the car you're ready to buy. You must have already completed your reserach which should include a test drive (doesn't have to be the exact car you're negotiating, but should be darn similar).

    Negotiating while not knowing what you want thus not really ready to buy hurts the marketplace. A salesperson and a dealership could be cold to fax or internet negotiations if people are wasting their time.
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    Very good advice and I totally agree.
  • benderofbowsbenderofbows Member Posts: 542
    After using some of these "get a free quote" links (and giving all make/model/option/trade/finance/etc. info, leaving nothing out), I can categorize these "internet" dealers in the following manner by the caliber of their responses and/or willingness to negotiate online (or lack thereof):

    Level 0 – DNS (Did Not Start)

    This dealer has a website but it is very limited (not updated often and with few functions). Even the canned responses are poorly worded, and the "come on down" ploys are very thinly masked.

    Level 1 – Beginner

    This dealership has a nice web site, including an updated online inventory list and possibly even an online trade-in appraisal form. The “internet” sales guys respond to inquiries quickly and try to sound helpful, but do not provide the info requested.

    Example A:
    SALESPERSON: ”I have your online trade-in evaluation form; thanks! When can you come in so that we can look at your trade?”
    CUSTOMER: “What? You acknowledged that I sent the ‘online trade-in evaluation’ form. Where is my actual online appraisal? Why did I take the time to fill all of that info in if it won’t get me a number?”

    Example B:
    CUSTOMER: “Hello, I’d like a lease quote on a new 2007 CamCord DX manual transmission with no options. What colors do you have in stock? I have excellent credit but don’t want to put any money down. Please quote for 12K miles/year, 42 months. Thanks!”
    SALESPERSON: “Depending on the model and options you choose your payments will be around $300. When can you come in?”
    CUSTOMER: “Huh? When I clicked on ‘Get an online quote’ I specified the model and options I wanted. Where is my actual online quote? Also, what about the availability of the model I asked for?”

    This dealer is only interested in the Internet as a marketing tool and a lead generator. They fall short very quickly when compared to the next two levels.

    Level 2 – Advanced

    An “Internet Showroom.” Knowledgeable and understanding sales staff will provide a direct and specific answer to any question. Sales/Finance managers and used car appraisers assist behind the scenes providing book values on trade-ins and payment estimations.

    Example:
    INTERNET SPECIALIST: “I got your online trade-in evaluation form; thanks. Also, you specified a new 2007 Toyonda CamCord SE-V6 with no options. We have two SE-V6s, one Blue and one Silver (the silver car has a sunroof). We can get other colors if necessary.
    CUSTOMER: “Edmunds TMV for trade-in is $13,450 and I owe $12,200. Also, I like the silver SE-V6 and will pay for a sunroof. What would my loan payments be based on a credit score of 750, no money down for 60 months, including all fees?
    INTERNET SPECIALIST: “I’m glad we’ve found your new Toyonda. Assuming your trade is as described, we’ll give $13K. Based on your credit, trade equity and our Internet price, with our best rate of 4.75% your payments will be $384.55 per month, out-the-door.”

    Once all information has been exchanged between both parties, negotiations are completed, and the salesman has started the paperwork, the buyer can come in to the dealership and just sign and drive. They still had to go in at some point, but they are more comfortable than going someplace blind. Plus, they spend much less time there, down from well over an hour to under 30 minutes.

    Level 3 – Professional

    These guys are the real deal; they represent a true “Internet Dealership.” Any or all stages of the car buying process can be completed online. They’ll even come to you to look at your car. You can even fax back the signed papers and they will deliver the new car to your door. This is the easiest for the customer and takes the least amount of their time. According to an online article, Edmunds.com first bought a car in this manner a few years ago; however, needless to say these dealers are still hard to find.
  • gasman1gasman1 Member Posts: 321
    Excellent post! Wouldn't it be great if dealerships had to earn their internet rating? Of course it woould have to be an independent source providing that rating. What could be used to identify the best internet dealerships? Stars wouldn't be good due to the 5-Star manufacturer ratings. Diamonds? What about something digital like G-Gigs or M-Megs? Again, nice post.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Good investigative reporting there benderbows. ;)
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • berthawunbunberthawunbun Member Posts: 5
    Thanks a lot guys! Yeah I agree it doesn't make much sense to negotiate before I see and test the car. I was just worried that once the salesmen have seen me they know they can rip me off and I wouldn't be much better off negotiating on-line. Thank you.
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    benderofbows...
    I agree...that was a GREAT post. As a prospective buyer and a previous buyer (I always use the internet to first search dealer inventory)(always rent the type vehicle that I intend to buy for at least a week-end)I then start the Email procedure and I can honestly say that I have experienced O.. Level 1... and Level 2...with 0 and Level 1 being the most common. as far as Level 3, I have never had that experience.
    As far as Level 2 goes, and the trade-in value, I can understand that a dealership, especially the internet salesperson, will not give you a "quote" on-line, although, in all fairness to your Level 2, they do ask for and sometimes say they will give you a "quote", but I never have received one, even after sending a reply back such as yours. I usually print out KBB, NADA,Edmunds and whatever else I can find, take the average of all of them (that's with excellent, good, fair, retail, sell yourself and trade-in values)(also, I check the Edmunds forum about real world trade-in value) and that gives me a fair to good idea of what I should expect for the trade. My cars are usually in very good trade-in condition, low mileage, good maintenance records, and usually less or about three years old.
    But I have to say again, that was an "Excellent" post about "Internet" dealership sales.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    That we can't see? Everybody seems to think their trades ae in "excellent" condition and very few are.

    It's not as easy as all that...

    Suppose you have a Ford Explorer? The various "books" tell you it's worth 14,000. Trouble is, these are softer than all blazes right now! A good store would carefully inspect it and then pick up the phone and start calling his friends at the local Ford stores, wholesalers etc to try to get a decent bid on it.

    Pretty hard to do this on a sight unseen car.
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    Isell:.."Assuming that your trade is what you describe, we will give you thirteen thousand". The key word here is "ASSUMING".
    I agree with your post, however;some dealers websites do ask, "Do you have a trade-in? Please fill in the following form for appraisal. I personally have never received such an appraisal or offer over the net. I do feel, that they shouldn't ask for the form to "GIVE" an appraisal.. I don't even know why they ask! Sight unseen, as you say, is certainly impossible to give a figure (unless they give a figure...a good one... to get you into the dealership and then, of course, start finding the coffee stains, dings and dents, and lo and behold, that heavy smoke coming out the exhaust pipe.... the internet appraisal price starts going down..
    I certainly believe that is the only way you could imagine that scenario.
This discussion has been closed.