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Comments
Honda needs to get a height adjuster for the drivers seat by 2004.
The CR-V parked next to it, however, was flawless - everything was assembled tightly.
Oddly enough, the wheel covers of the DX had the black center with silver surround, which I liked a lot better than the alloy covers. Didn't read what was added to it, but this DX had a retail value of 20K.
Sat inside and the front seats do feel low. This DX didn't have a CD player, so that area was covered up by a flimsy looking rectangular piece of plastic. The chunky surrounds for the gauges reminded me of my RAV4, which is to say I didn't like them. Sitting position aside, the ergonomics were great - everything felt "natural." Don't know how to really explain it, but everything just seemed to be placed where you would intuitively expect them to be, especially the shifter. I felt out of place when I dropped back into my Civic after the oil change.
As to diploid's post, sounds like the DX model you saw was a victim of dealer gouging (probably a lot of over priced dealer installed accessories). We paid $20,700 + delivery (which I think came to a total of $21,3xx) for a "fully loaded" EX 4WD automatic and then added about $800 worth of accessories purchased on line for a fraction of the dealer cost and installed them myself.
The panel fit on our E is very good with little discrepancy in gaps (and I must note that we have an '01 Volvo S80 and if you want to see poor panel fit....) I have been hesitant to say this, but since there have been so many recent posts re: low grade/soft plastic, my response is what can one expect from a car in the $16 to $21k range - Honda obviously could not put highest grade/most durable materials or the E would cost thousands more.
If they do one for the 2.4l, it'll likely be for the Accord, since that's where the volume is. It might then be adapted to the CR-V and Element.
But remember, the pistons aren't forged, i.e. the engine internals are not engineered for forced induction and it might not be reliable. Plus, a Jackson Racing S/C on a Focus tested by one car mag took almost nothing off its 0-60 time, maybe a couple of tenths IIRC.
-juice
That's true, but I think that fenomenon has been solved a long time ago.
And yes, you can't take advantage of the supercharger full potential unless you make changes to the fuel management and internals. It's not easy and far from being cheap.
And it will also require a switch to a high octane fuel grade.
I don't think a new Element, still under warranty, is as good a candidate for a supercharger mod. YMMV.
-juice
This is referring to the EX model, so it must mean that the seat remained low even after raising it to the highest possible level.
It could not be possible that a professional writer didn't notice the height adjustment knob.
I have seen other magazine articles where the writer made a point to mention the low seat height.
The "concept" and "utility" are awsome. And of course it's nice to drive something " unique ".
This really is the perfect vehicle for me. Especially since I'm a cycling fanatic. I keep thinking about taking a trip with it. Flip the seats up, my bike on one side and me sleeping on the other side.
As badly as I want one, I'm going to try to hold off to give Honda time to address some issues.
If my car gave me any reason to get rid of it now, then I would be driving the Element. ( of course if I didn't get gouged by the dealer. I'm not paying over sticker for ANY car. In fact I'm not sure I would even pay sticker).
So I'll continue to look at the brochure and ponder all the things I might do with the Element.
No. Whenever you can go to to multiple Honda dealers within a reasonable driving distance and see at least one unsold Element at more than one dealership equipped in a way you would be willing to accept.
How long that will take will depend on how popular it is in your area.
There is a lot I like about the Element - but the height of the front seats has got to be remedied. I especially noticed how low they were because I entered through the rear doors, where I tried the rear seats first and then climbed my way to the front seat (and I barely had to duck - this would be one cool "dressing room" for the beach).
Hey guys do the math! The front seat is low to make an even level bed with the rear seats. Any higher and it gets lumpy. The same with the rear legroom. It comes from the necessity for the front seatback to fill in the space to rear seat cushion to make a bed. A seatback is quite long.
p.s. just kidding about the 'inside' thing
-juice
Not everyone wants to sit high, so that's why the seats should be more adjustable. You should be able to set the seat as high or low as is comfortable for you.
Having a driver's seat that has another few inches of travel in the height adjustment will not change the handling of the vehicle.
If the seat is more adjustable it does not prevent you from sitting low if you have that desire and does not prevent you from adjusting it to make a semi-flat bed.
Come on Honda - think!!!
They commented that it drove like a minivan.
The driver also said something like:
"I have no idea how fast I'm driving because the steering wheel is blocking the speedometer."
The show may repeat this week on Tech TV.
You want more seating, buy a CR-V or a Pilot.
Where would you put a 3rd row seat in an element, anyway. Have you seen the cargo area?
-juice
We know - that's why we're requesting a seat height adjuster...so you can adjust the seat to sit comfortably and re-adjust it to fold flat.
bowke- And just how much will the center of gravity change by adjusting the seat up a couple of inches?
(tidester - don't answer it for him).
tidester, host
Also, I question the stat that only 900 have been sold (and the implication that this is some indication that the Element will become another Aztec). While it may be "technically" true that only 900 have been sold, I believe this is because dealers were allotted only one or two to serve as demos to take orders from (and, as was the case with us, some dealers may be willing to sell one of those and some dealers might have a couple extra due to incentives from Honda), I think you have to adjust that figure substantially upward by taking into account the number of orders placed. We were told that, as of late December, 2002, the build date for orders was, at the earliest, late Jan '03. So is the "sale" date the date the car was delivered or the date the order was placed? A friend who owns a Honda dealership has confirmed that he has taken deposits/orders on ALL of his first allotment to (he hopes) be delivered in early Feb. '03.
Honda/Acura marketing personnel are - in my non-marketing background opinion - very savvy when it comes to knowing the law of supply & demand. I cannot recall ever seeing Honda/Acura offer anything resembling the rebates and fire sale offers other manufacturers are/have promoted (i. e., buy a Mitsubishi with NO PAYMENT for the first year - except of course, on our latest, most popular model(s)...)
Finally, the Superbowl half-time show (with Saturday Night Live actors as hosts) is being sponsored by, you guessed it, the HONDA ELEMENT - should be some good commercials.
Maybe not as severe as Mitsubishi's but the 02 Civic Si ain't sellin' worth a flip.
(it had the price the dealer paid & then it had the consumer price too.)
Tankyoo.
Our pricing info is under the New Cars link - just drill down to the Element.
Steve, Host
There is a height adjuster there already, just give it a little more useful adjustment.
If there was no problem, it wouldn't be mentioned in more than one magazine review and by multiple posters in multiple forums.
I think the field of view is impacted by the square hood that goes out but not down. Even tall people report they cannot see the front end either. The seats are not low dude the dash is high:)
I think it's a great idea for models that are in demand.
Any how, Honda has about 1000 dealers, so if they sent one to each dealer as a demo, that essentially doubles that 900 figure as far as production goes. I'm not sure if they track orders.
January and February sales will be far more telling.
-juice
The issue of seat height, which has been omnipresent on this site for the past several days, is an intangible and highly subjective opinion similar to one's opinion about the best color for the vehicle, whether to choose a manual or auto trans, etc.
I can't explain why any auto magazine article(s) mentioned the seat height (or purported lack thereof) as an issue which should determine whether you should by this car. I can tell you, though, that being a subscriber to 6+ car magazines for the past 20+ years I am constantly amazed at how much the magazines vary in their likes/dislikes of the same vehicle (with, perhaps, the exception of the BMW 3 series which over the past 10 years every auto magazine seems to love).
I drove an EX 4WD yesterday and was very impressed, but I still can't make up my mind on which car to purchase this year-- 2003 Audi A4 Avant 6-speed, 2003 Saab 9-3 Vector or the E.
This decision process is killing me and my Audi salesman is ready to make a deal.
Adding a few extra inches of travel is not hurting the people who enjoy sitting low or don't care.
I don't understand why people are trying to defend the limited adjustment. This is the same as if people complain about the A/C being too weak next summer, but you think that if the capacity were increased, it would be too cold and you would rather it stay the same instead of just not setting it to the maximum cooling setting when you use it.
If you don't want to sit any higher than the seat can be adjusted in the 2003s, then just don't raise the seat all the way to the maximum height if any future models can be adjusted a little higher than 2003s.
Better yet, get that Audi with raise/lower suspension. You get both kinds of fun.