Honda Element

anonymousposts · August 2003

We were deadset on the Element EX 4WD 5-speed until we test drove a Forester. Now we are kind of confused but leaning towards the Forester. Has anyone else made a similar decision?

s852 · September 2003

I have heard complaints from people of various heights saying the driving position is odd or awkward.
I have read about not being able to see the speedometer because it is blocked by the steering wheel. I have heard about people complaining that they feel like they are sitting on the floor straining their neck to see over the dash because the driver's seat is too low even when it is raised to the top position. This low seating position is the opposite of the elevated "commanding" driving position most buyers of an SUV or even a minivan are looking for.
Anyone notice these problems?

zenzikora · September 2003

I just drove one a few hours ago and I noticed none of those things. I am used to a pretty low car though, so maybe that makes a difference. i thought it was comfortable, and the only view problem I had was that the window sticker blocked my blind spot.

muffin_man · September 2003

The new turbo Forester (XT?)?

ateixeira · September 2003

Well, given you spend most of your time inside the vehicle, driving it, vs. outside looking at it, the choice seems natural.

Try a CR-V also, they're more conventional.

Don't drive an XT if you aren't seriously considering buying it, everything else will seem painfully slow after that. At least you can join our XT Envy Club. ;-)

-juice

mtngal · September 2003

Decisions, decisions! I can't buy a new car yet, so I haven't made the decision between a Subie and the Element either. I keep thinking about it.

My problem is that I also like all of the Subie line - each one does something different than the others, and I could see myself in any of them. Do I go practical or do I go for pure fun (WRX)? I haven't test driven the Forester XT yet, though I will when it gets closer to the time I can buy something.

On the other hand, the interior of the Element is just about perfect for my needs. So, decisions, decisions...

gee35coupe · September 2003

But it seems she's back to the Element. Must be those hormonal imbalances I've heard about.

meinrad · September 2003

Driving to another state to get it, but my (actually my wife's) new GG 4WD EX should be in our driveway Saturday afternoon.

I do love internet transactions. The dealer I found made me a great offer and all I need now is for all to go well when we actually show up there on Saturday.

It really seems to be a great fit for our family and I can't wait to see if that is how I feel after a few months of actual ownership.

anonymousposts · September 2003

you do have to live with me

The Forester was nice but I couldn't get over the lack of smoothness in the engine and tranny as compared to the Element. The Element also felt roomier and is one of the few cars that gee can comfortably sit in the back seat of. So it's back to the Element or a nice used car.

stever · September 2003

Elements must be selling well in Boise - I saw three while running errands for an hour yesterday afternoon.

The paint scheme is reminiscent of naval warship camouflage to me (link). I like it a lot.

Steve, Host

anonymousposts · September 2003

Elements are all over the place here. Even out in the boonies where we live.

kjab · September 2003

I bought a 4WD EX 3 wks ago, and being a 5'3" lady I can comment on the driving position issue. Because the seat is a little too hard for me, I covered a layer of foam with fabric and have a cushion on each of the 2 front seats. It not only solves the comfort factor, but it elevates me just right for visibility! Now there is no problem seeing well out of all windows. Yeh, maybe that is going to more trouble than some would like, but it works perfectly for me.

I too considered the Forester vs the Element, and after seeing the options for the back space, numerous test drives, and lots of research, I decided on the Element. I sure made the perfect choice for me! Just got back from a weeks worth of camping and driving in the mountains of WV. The EX performed wonderfully! Plenty of room for all the gear, with no worries about messing up carpet or upholstery when that gear turned muddy, Good power going up steep roads fully loaded. Great sound system to accompany the drive. Impressive mpg - varied between 22.6 and 25.3, I am 100% percent happy with my choice of the Element. Oh, we also put a screen over the radiator to prevent any problems with that. It has been a great help to read postings on here.

rockymtelement · September 2003

Being an owner of a 2wd Element EX since May, I've had 5,000 miles of driving to get a good feel for the vehicle. I am relatively short--5'5". The only way I can see what speed I am going is if the steering wheel is raised to it's highest position. That has to be one of me only gripes about the vehicle.

meinrad · September 2003

LoL, after a couple hundred miles of driving after picking ours up on Saturday, I've noticed I can't see the speedometer too well.

I've got the wheel up as far as it will go and it still blocks my view. So I have to do a little duck of my head to get a look at my speed, can't just take a glance.

That was my only gripe this weekend though. Got what I felt was a great price and no hassle deal. Then loaded it up with bikes, coolers, and clothes and headed of for a weekend in the Laurel Highlands.

The Element did everything well, including the automatic transmissions handling of the hills. I was also pleased that wind noise on the highway was pretty much non-existant.

jvkalra · September 2003

I'm in the SF Bay Area and saw about 10 Elements right in a dealership front lot, while getting an oil change. There were more in the back.

It seems like sales have slowed down in this area, or the dealer just got a truckload.

s852 · September 2003

Maybe they need to move the speedo to the middle of the dash like, Scions, Minis and Saturns when they do the 2005 or 2006 refreshening.

bowke28 · September 2003

honda overships units right before the model year change to offset any delays. this is about the right time.

gee35coupe · September 2003

Decided to go with the Orange 4WD automatic. To cut it short we ended up with an Accord. The auto 4WD just seemed too sluggish and buzzy with the A/C on and three people in the car this time out. Got an 04 EX-L automatic instead built in Japan. Still Honda fans it's just the Element didn't seem to cut the mustard on VERY close scrutiny for us. I still loe to see em on the road though.

As far as inventory watch though. The dealership near us HAD 6 out front and about 20 in back Thursday. By Saturday they were down to 4 out front and about 10 in back. Those things are flying off the lot. We bought our Accord from Gwinnett Place in Atlanta. They were down to about 25 or so. And only 2 were orange..Well one since they sold one of them while we were there.

Accords were leaving in droves it seems. There were 5 delivered between the time we picked our out and delivery. WOW.

bowke28 · September 2003

i used to trade with gwinnett's often...pretty good size store. seemed like good folks.

ateixeira · September 2003

Honda's "sales per dealer" record is incredible. Each dealer moves a *lot* of cars.

60 days' supply is ideal, but both those models are new so I bet they have maybe half that.

-juice

varmint · September 2003

From July

I no longer have the link, but there was a recent study that showed the Element, Pilot, and a few other Hondas as being in the top 10 for spending the least amount of time on the dealer's lot. IIRC, supplies were less than 15 days or something like that.

anonymousposts · September 2003

We've bought 2 cars from Gwinnett. They are the place to go in Atlanta if you want the best deal on a new model. Alot of other dealers had limited 04 inventory and the ones that had them would've probably been tough to negotiate with. Overall, our 2 experiences with Gwinnett rank pretty high up on our car buying list.

muffin_man · September 2003

Do you have 2 accords now?

anonymousposts · September 2003

No. We are expecting a little gee or or a little postette so the 2003 coupe had to go. After looking at everything from an Element to a Forester to a new Civic to a used S40 and just about everything in between we decided another Accord was the way to go. Just can't beat this car in our humble opinions. S40's are nice but check out the S40 board and you will run screaming.

bowke28 · September 2003

when is the little 'thread' due? ;-)

ateixeira · September 2003

15 days is remarkably low, that's when you have wait lists at some dealerships. Of course this works in favor of the dealers, in terms of supply/demand, those regions probably still demand full MSRP for Elements.

As a customer, you want for a car that you absolutely love to have a supply of 120 days, that way the dealers are giving them away! ;-)

-juice

gee35coupe · September 2003

Heard the heartbeat today. Anybody know where to buy aftermarket airbags? I want to totally cocoon the interior in the event of a crash. I gotta keep em safe. Just kidding.

As far as inventory....If you are in Atlanta and want a 4WD stick....You're on a list. They are nowhere to be found. I've only seen 2 FWD 5 speeds.

bowke28 · September 2003

if you want a selection of 4WDs, you have to go north of the mason-dixon line. KY, WV, VA, and all points north will have 10 times the selection of 4WDs. opposite is true for 2WDs...i had to go to atlanta twice for a 2WD element, and a 2WD CRV.

zenzikora · September 2003

well I finally got one last night. The dealer traded for one over in NJ and I picked it up last night. Orange, 2WD, 5spd. Drove it home, then to work and back - I really like it, I have to get used to being up so high though. NO problem seeing the speedometer or any part of the instrument cluster.
   However, when I went out today, about 1.5 miles from home, the car stalled and would not start up again. Yes, my brand new Element, with less than 150 miles on the odo, will not start. It is not a problem with the keys, as I have tried all 3 with the same effect. It was the first time I ran the A/C and the CD player, and I noticed that the CD skipped out a few times (no bumps), then I went to make a turn, and the whole engine just went off. Hazards worked, but the headlights won't come on at all, so I suspect some connection or battery problem.
  Has this happened to anyone else???
  I called the dealer and they are coming to get it (I am currently waiting, they are an hour or more away). I had AAA tow it home. I am glad now that I paid for the extended warranty. . .
  Any thoughts?

bowke28 · September 2003

i think you just got unlucky...have the dealer check ALL exposed electrical connections...they will if you insist...it will take them about 1/2 hour extra, and they MAY ask you to pay for the extra labor time, but it would be worth the 30 or 40 bucks.

stever · September 2003

ahem, it's a brand new car. The dealer should check everything under warranty. It does sound rather like something shook loose in transport, but if electrical stuff is going to go bad, it tends to fail in the first few days of use.

In other news, the Element gets three stars in new rollover ratings:

WTOL

Steve, Host

zenzikora · September 2003

Oh I don't plan on paying. I haven't even had it 24 hours yet!
I don't think it's a serious issue. The towing guy took a look at it and found that a fuse had blown (tested it and the headlights magically came on). Said maybe the AC coming on shorted something, so hopefully it was indeed just something that shook loose during transit and they will fix it and that will be that. Unfortunately the dealer is an hour+ from me, so if they won't come get me when it's done, I'll have to find a ride down there (I do have a backup car for home tho).
But as I said, otherwise I really like it. ..

ateixeira · September 2003

Congrats, I got really pumped when I heard my daughter's heart beat for the first time. Pretty cool.

See if your dealer will help you test-fit infant seats. Make sure it's snug!

-juice

bowke28 · September 2003

i actually meant in addition to any normal check-up...some dealers will ASK you to pay.

gee and anon...is this your 1st?

mtngal · September 2003

Glad the Element got a reasonable rating - it backs up what I felt through the "seat of my pants." Thought it was interesting that the Outback did better than the Forester.

I've often wondered about the roll-over stats. When I test drove an Element it seemed quite stable for an SUV with less body roll than I had expected, and it seemed like it would take quite a bit to get it to go over.

My fun vehicle (one that is not getting traded anytime soon) is a Wrangler. I find myself sometimes white knuckled when I'm driving at higher speeds (especially over 70. While I love my Wrangler, it is not a commuter car!). It feels like it wouldn't take much to get it to go over. However, it seems like it doesn't have a very high roll-over rate. Does that mean that Wrangler drivers are more careful because of the lousy feel of the vehicle? Or does it mean that the "feel" of a vehicle has less to do with it's real world performance? Just wondering what others thought.

bowke28 · September 2003

i think that anyone who has the 'nads' to buy a wrangler knows what they are doing in the 1st place.

varmint · September 2003

Don't they remove certain fuses during shipping? I think it's part of the dealer prep to hook up all electricals. Someone may have goofed with a fuse.

zenzikora · September 2003

the guy who towed it said the one looked cracked (?)
It's at the dealer now. If it's not done by morning they're going to have to either come get me or drop it off for me. . .
Neither I nor Tommy (the towguy) noticed any missing fuses. I am waiting for them to call now.

Kirstie_H · September 2003

Don't forget tonight's member-to-member chat -- Our topic tonight is "Warranties: Are they worth it?"

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html

6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

ateixeira · September 2003

Outback is both wider and lower than the Forester, so it makes sense to me that it got 4 stars. The Pilot and Murano did also, they're both fairly wide.

Still, I want to see a dynamic test. I bet the Outback VDC, with stability control, gets 5 stars. The MDX with that option would also, I bet.

-juice

robr2 · September 2003

juice - keep in mind the rollover tests use a mathematical forumla to determine propensity for rollover. There aren't any actual tests done.

I have no idea if NHSTA takes stability control systems into account. They mention them here but not whether they consider them:

http://www.nhtsa.gov/NCAP/Info.html#iq17

ateixeira · September 2003

I know, and that formula uses overall height and width as inputs, and also curb weight, hence the Outback should score better than Forester.

Funny thing is what hurts the Forester is that a roof rack is standard, so height is sort of overstated. The rails themselves are actually made of aluminum, so they're very light. So is the hood.

It'll be far more interesting to see the results of a dynamic test. Only then will stability control systems become more mainstream, customers will demand them.

-juice

losangelesgurl · September 2003

I'm having trouble deciding between the 4WD with the moonroof versus the 2WD without the moonroof. I like the moonroof feature, but so many people have told me to avoid the 4WD because it is just one more thing to go wrong on the car some day.

Also, I can't decide on the color. Is black really as much a pain as many of my friends say? And I tend to keep cars a long time, and I'm not sure in 5 yrs the orange will be all that appealing anymore. I love the green, but with its partly-green interior, possible trouble reselling it down the line comes to mind if color fashions change.

I can't decide on stick vs auto, either. To me, the auto seems sluggish. Then again, do I really NEED to zip off the line? But I live in Los Angeles, and traffic here can be just unbelievably bad. Then again, I work largely from home, so it isn't like I have to sit in a traffic jam every day like in years past.

Thank you, everyone, for your thoughts.

boiko · September 2003

Hummmm...LA...traffic, mostly good weather...

I would get a 2WD Auto EX...you'll have to pick the color, but GG does go well with the plastic fenders.

-mike-

hppypaul · September 2003

Trust me, I've had a 4wd, 5spd for three months now and it is the way to go.

Don't worry about being in traffic. You will get used to it. the clutch is very easy and the E definitely has more get up and go with the manual than the auto. I'm in NJ so with snow the 4wd is useful, but I've also read that the car handles better with it due to the little bit of extra weight in the back vs the FWD. All in all, a great little ride, and I traded a saab convertible to get so you know I'm really happy.

hppypaul · September 2003

ps. I went with the orange and everybody loves it. Definitely the best color, esp for california.

mtngal · September 2003

SoCal and black don't go together. I was very surprised at how much difference it does make. My great looking black Wrangler is the last black vehicle I'll ever buy unless I move to some place cooler.

I test drove a manual 2WD and really liked it. The clutch is easy, the shift is short, really nice (of course, I'm driving the Wrangler and a Tacoma, both 5 speeds). I don't mind shifting but I don't have many stop lights on my daily commute - just the Sepulveda and Newhall passes and half the Grapevine. In your position I'd probably opt to save the money and get a 2WD. But since I live in the snow and occasionally need 4WD to get out of my driveway in winter, I'd get the 4WD. If you spend much time in the mountains in winter that 4WD comes in handy!

Good luck with your choice.

losangelesgurl · September 2003

But boiko, what about the moonroof? The 2WD doesn't come with it, and I want that feature. Dang, surprises me Honda would do something like offer the moonroof only on the more expensive 4WD.

And hppypaul, yep, I'm used to a clutch. I've only ever driven clutch, so it's not a big deal. I just wonder if I'll be missing out on something by sticking with clutch. Are you in CA, too, by the way? I looked at your profile but you list only USA, so wasn't sure.

Hey there, mtngal, looks like you're just up the way from me, huh? I think I did some backpacking years ago up your way. I really am looking forward to getting this purchased and done with so I can start enjoying it, and not just researching it!

mtngal · September 2003

Yes - I'm not far from you. I work in West LA so I have an extreme commute, but it is worth it to look out on a pine (and occasionally snow) covered ridge, take 5 minutes to get to a trailhead for hiking on Saturday morning and less than that to hit my first dirt road. If you are going to be spending much time up in the mountains then definitely get the 4WD. It is so much nicer to not have to stop and put chains on and the extra traction comes in handy. And you won't be frustrated by not getting the moonroof.

gee35coupe · September 2003

It's the only way to go. I drove the 4WD auto and ended up buying an Accord. And never buy black. I've owned 3 black cars and will never go there again. They only look good for one day after you wash them and they show every nick scratch abrasion that they run into.

Honda Element

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