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Honda Element

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  • moonkatmoonkat Member Posts: 265
    Another Element rival: Land Rover Freelander

    http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/roadtest/61673/article.html

    Mainly for the shape and appearance in silver with blocky dark fender trim.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    The Element doesn't really have any natural predators. It's in a class of it's own. I think that the competition will be anything that is about funky styling, low cost, and utility. Probably in that order. These are the vehicles that I see as competitors:

    PT Cruiser - Gobs of style, fairly low price, and decent utility for such a small vehicle. The lack of 4WD won't matter to these buyers as much as the styling. The Element provides "younger" styling and more utility.

    The Aztek - Most people who buy an Aztek needed a minivan, but didn't want the stigma. What they get is a vehicle with great utility at a warehouse-sale price. Buyers simply trade the mommy look for the freakish look. The Element provides a less freakish and more funky alternative at the expense of some utility.

    The Matrix - A bargain import-lovers car that provides unique styling and some utility. While one is sport oriented and the other is utility minded, both provide a "fun" image without losing sight of utility.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    The Wrangler - A serious off-roader that people buy because it's a cheap rag-top and has tons of character. Many people will give up the Jeep's obvious off-road superiority for some of the space and civility of the Element. They still get to keep the character.
  • moonkatmoonkat Member Posts: 265
    varmint:
    You're an Ad Copywriter, yes?

    "trade the mommy look for the freakish look"...great line, but watch out for "lito".

    I hesitate characterizing or otherwise passing judgement on aesthetics; it's so subjective, though I like to think I have good taste. One man's Element is another's Aztec.

    I'm going to make an effort to see the Element in person the next time it is within reach; and with a tape measure and a camcorder. Wherever that is.
  • dralstldralstl Member Posts: 7
    The inside pictures show a pull out screen and indicates it can be used for game playing. Do you think it will also have either (or both) a GPS Navigation use or an internet access use? I would be willing to pay for this if it is an add on option as it is in some vehicles.
  • dralstldralstl Member Posts: 7
    ..... the final configuration for the Element? If it is to be in the showrooms this December, how far in advance will brochures and/or online information be available? I am like a kid again, waiting for Christmas. Seven months is too long for me to wait.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Moonkat - I'm one of those people who liked the Aztek concept. They bungled it with the production model.

    I agree that the styling of the Element will be a love/hate affair. I love it, my wife hates it. It won't have the near-universal appeal of something like the PT Cruiser. But I think it will work well with the demographic they are trying to sell to.
  • moonkatmoonkat Member Posts: 265
    dralstl:
    I regret that you have a wait for your Christmas present....savor it.

    Some of us are also waiting on the new Pilot which is being sold beginning with a June 3rd roll-out, and brochures/info is still not complete. Models and prices were broadcast on the web last week, but colors/interior colors are not absolute. Prices were nearly 5% higher than originally announced.

    I suspect it will be similar with the Element. Info & pictures will trickle out as Ohio production begins maybe Sep, Oct for an early December roll-out. Before then Honda will also be rolling-out the 03 Accord in the Fall with auto show preview in mid-June. There is also a new 03 MDX (well, at least the new 3.8L motor) to intro.....

    You might want to visit an auto show which previews the production Element. I'm planning on that....should've made the effort to visit NYIAS.

    As for options at this early stage, you might take a look at the College Hills Honda site 03 Accord models/options page for a hint at what may be offered in Element. Apparently Honda will offer NAV on all the 03 Accords, but that may be academic. My Pilot dealer said that NAV & RES options were not available in the June build dates - (and fine with me). (Oh, and by the way, get used to terms like "build date", "allocation", and "MSRP"...=)
  • moonkatmoonkat Member Posts: 265
    Varmint:
    I guess I'm more of a like-dislike kinda guy. The original Aztek, I disliked (not hated), and the 02 I consider more attractive. I guess I don't invest as much emotion in the vehicles I see (or drive).

    The PT Cruiser is photogenic. I originally liked the design, until I saw one in person, and realized that it was only about 3/4 the size I perceived (that word again) it to be. Thereafter I discounted it as not being a serious vehicle.

    The Element is appealing visually and functionally, and I suspect will be even more attractive in person. I already have a feel for the scale of the vehicle at 70-72" tall, and larger than a CR-V. Also, the hints from folks like juice (I recall) who have seen it live, and called it "superb" reinforce my expectations.

    This from a guy who is buying a Pilot sight unseen and for entirely functional reasons. By the way is that you (6'-1") in the Pilot Spy photos at HondaSUV.com?
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Yep. That's me. But don't tell anyone. ;-)

    I actually think that the '02 Aztek looks worse. The half-painted front bumper gives it a storming-the-beaches-of-Normandy appearance. It looks like a military landing vehicle. Instead of having a big blunt snout, it now has an upturned lower lip. Like a bulldog. The spoiler just makes me laugh.

    OTOH, the Element is a more integrated design. The front matches the sides, which matches the look of the back, etc.. In this respect, I think it has better styling than the CR-V, which looks kinda random. The Element looks like the function it serves. The Pilot does, too.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    kat - from the Ody boards:

    Odyssey w/less than 12,000 miles and

    Those prices are excellent and I would not pass them up, and they are Honda's, not aftermarket. One guy paid $6 grand for a new tranny, and the Pilot is only heavier and more likely to stress the trans. It might cost a little more because of VTM-4. But you could get a 7/75 warranty if you don't pile on the miles too quickly.

    So mine would be $32k with the warranty. I'd better get a promotion or hit the lotto first! Actually the wife bought a wagon, but I'm still always looking around for fun.

    I really liked it. I think you're getting exactly what you expect to get, no more no less.

    Matrix may be small to compete with Element, but I guess the plastic lined cargo area sort of targets the same buyer.

    Freelander are much pricier, even a stripped one will cost $5 grand more than a loaded Element.

    Check out the Amateur Design Studio thread, someone "fixed" up an Aztec by removing some of the gills and flattening the roof.

    -juice
  • moonkatmoonkat Member Posts: 265
    Juice:
    Thanks for the great lead; excellent prices!
  • gpoltgpolt Member Posts: 113
    College Hills lists a 2003 Accord LX SSRS. Does anyone know what the "SSRS" abbreviation stands for?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Those are the side air bags, SRS means safety restraint system IIRC, the first S must be for "Side".

    -juice
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    SRS = Supplimental Restraint System.

    The supplimental part is important as they are not to be used without, or in place of, seatbelts. Otherwise, I think Juice is correct. The "S" prefix probably means "side".
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    According to MT, the Element is going to weight in above 3520 lbs. That's about 200lbs more than the CR-V. As a result, they estimate 0-60mph in the 12 second range. I have doubts about that and would expect something more like 10-11 seconds, but the fact remains it is a heavy little beast.
  • ahs24ahs24 Member Posts: 1
    Do you guys think people are beginning to get the buzz for the Model X based, Element? I wonder if the launch of the Pilot (June 2nd) and the forthcoming Accord (Fall) is hindering the excitement for this unique looking stationwagon/SUV? The main reason I am so curious is b/c the Element looks like a brave little venture for Honda. The styling is eye-popping, esp for a Honda.
    Any thoughts?
  • subzero206subzero206 Member Posts: 111
    its not even June yet. the buzz will come once we get closer to december.
  • moonkatmoonkat Member Posts: 265
    Varmint:
    Would you please provide pointer to MT reference regarding weight? .......tnx
  • moonkatmoonkat Member Posts: 265
    Article in Pop Sci -
    http://www.popsci.com/popsci/auto/article/0,12543,249603,00.html

    "glitter in the body panels"....?
  • ropedartropedart Member Posts: 163
    200 lbs more than a CRV? This is going to be problem. Heavy and slow. Young crowd is not going to like this. Where is that Jackson racing supercharger?? You put a V6 in it its going to be overpriced. Of course people are stealing Accords for their engines and putting them into Civics. This may happen with a lot of Elements.
  • moonkatmoonkat Member Posts: 265
    Ropedart:
    Not to worry about engine thefts...the new 03 Accord will have an even more potent 170+ hp version of the 2.4L motor. That will maintain the Accord at the top of the most wanted (among auto thieves) list.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    The 160hp rating is not set in stone yet (perhaps this is why it's going to be released waaayyy in December?).
  • ropedartropedart Member Posts: 163
    Now PS is saying the cladding has flecks in it. That'll be cool for about 6 months and then it will be embarrassing. GE plastics have been trying to peddle their flecked plastics to my company for years. We think it is kind of tacky. Pu-leez Honda let the aftermarket do the tacky stuff.

    Why did Honda pick blue color for the cladding? After years of sunlight and UV exposure it will fade and you will never match repair panels. Black would not fade and is very UV resistant.

    Lastly, will the cladding droop and sag after a period of time? Plastic creeps over time. Gaps will grow.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Moonkat - MT info comes from the July 2002 issue, page 28.

    "...the penalty for a stiff structure, despite the absence of B-pillars, is weight: with optional RT4WD (FWD is standard) and the automatic, more than 3520 lbs."

    They also note that the body cladding will be gray for production models.
  • ropedartropedart Member Posts: 163
    The FWD/5speed should be about 300 lbs lighter. Too bad Canada will not get this model. Who needs REALlyaftersomeTIMEthe4WDkicksin. Still this is a heavy vehicle. No wonder Honda execs are thinking about a bigger engine. They have to. Think that the the Toyota RAV4 comes in well under 3000 lbs. That's a well handling SUV. The Element not only looks porky it is porky.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    I've been using RT4WD for three years without a problem. I'm not sure that leaving it out is going to save you 300lbs. I'm told that the rear diff itself weighs 15lbs. The only other significant source of weight would be the propellor shaft. Going with the 5 speed might save you 50-75 lbs. I think a more realistic savings would be 150 lbs. HOWEVER, Honda doesn't offer a CR-V with 5 speed and no RT4WD. The 2WD model only comes as an automatic. Dunno if they'll do the same with the Element.

    As for the overall weight, yes, vehicles like the RAV4 are indeed much lighter. Of course they also can't haul more than two duffel bags without kicking out a passenger or two.
  • moonkatmoonkat Member Posts: 265
    This reminds me of the product development for the S2K... As Honda developed the chassis, and drivetrain for the sportscar, weight projections indicated that it was going to be a couple of hundred pounds too heavy in spite of extreme weight cutting measures. Honda then looked to its engine team to increase hp of the 2.0 L motor in order to meet the performance attributes they had targeted. Consequently they increased output approximately 20 hp.

    If weight is a problem, Honda has other options.

    The preceeding is loosely based on an article I recall.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Heavier? That's disappointing. So far I'd liked everything about it better.

    AN had an article about how Honda will handle the 3 launches, and apparently the Element will get the full attention it deserves.

    Gray cladding is best. Volvo uses blue (so-so) and brown (downright ugly) on the XC. Still, the Element's style lets it get away with riskier colors.

    CR-V has no FWD 5 speeds, but I hope Element does.

    RAV4 has a 760 pound payload. It's a light-weight.

    -juice
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Moonkat - Ditto with the 210 hp Ody, then the 240 hp version just in case.

    Though I doubt they'll give the Element more power without also giving it to the CR-V. So I'm guessing we'll see it start with 160 hp, then get more power a few years later. I expect that Honda can get another 20 hp out of the 2.4 without seriously affecting the torque curve (we don't want another high revver with that kind of weight).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just offer a Jackson Racing edition with a S/C for maybe $3 grand extra.

    That'll create a halo effect and enough positive publicity to draw people into showrooms, even though most will end up buying the 160hp model.

    -juice
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I don't mind the blue plastic cladding at all. What I think would bother me is, if that Pop Sci article is accurate, if the cladding really has that sparkle effect. I'd prefer it to be a dull solid cladding, and in any color.

    Regardless of the cladding's color, I would like to see an Element in a single solid color. I think that would make the Element look better as the 2-color treatment breaks the exterior's overall solidity.
  • ropedartropedart Member Posts: 163
    Black cladding please. It would be so boss, so phat, so bad in all black. It literally would RULE the streets. If only if had a little more power. Wasn't this suppose to be a guy thing?
  • whatever_7whatever_7 Member Posts: 13
    I can't believe your people don't like the 2 tone design, it look so funky in blue. Yeah baby

    image

    image

    image
  • moonkatmoonkat Member Posts: 265
    Awesome!
    I agree with you on the Blue (w or w/o sparklies) cladding, but your black on black rendering is baaad!

    Coool!......actually one very hot beach buggy!
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    But I think I may actually like the Element. It's nice and boxy and utilitarian unlike most other cute-utes.

    -mike
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    I never had a problem with the blue and silver, but I had a tought time picturing the blue cladding with other colors.

    Thanks for the photoshopped renderings. Those are great.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I *love* the gray on silver. The black cladding is wonderful, also. I prefer them over the blue cladding.

    "I can't believe your people don't like the 2 tone design, it look so funky in blue. Yeah baby"

    Now see, make it all silver and you'll see how much cooler it can look without the 2-color design...
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'm a monotone guy myself.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I like the blue in the case of this car (a rare exception). The monotone overlaps too much with the CR-V, this is supposed to attract a different buyer.

    -juice
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    Can you please make a silver with red cladding please.

    thanks
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Didn't MB's Smart Car have colored plastic panels which were interchangable? Maybe we should write to Honda and ask them do offer this as a dealer option. =)
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    They can also give us a moonroof while they're at it.
  • ropedartropedart Member Posts: 163
    Great Work! I hope the gray is going to be a dark gray. Now can you do red, blue, white, yellow body colours?
  • whatever_7whatever_7 Member Posts: 13
    Alright I m in a good mood today, here s the red


    image


    I doubt other color will work, unless you drive it like a Mercedes.

    It begs for modification though. I think a nickname will come out in no time!


    email it if u want to play w it yourself in photoshop


    -tino

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It has a moonroof, just farther back than you would expect! ;-)

    -juice
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Maybe we should be asking for a convertible? =)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let's be creative. What about a folding hard top that opens clam-shell style to the rear, with little pop-out wheels that make it an instant trailer?

    The men with the white suits are coming again, I'd better keep quiet!

    -juice
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    1) need projection headlights
    2) those wheels gotta go, they belong in the odyssey
    3) since the doors have such a large area with no rubber strips, large "VTEC", "Powered by Mugen", stickers are in order.
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    Sorry, the element won't do

    c-a-n-'-t t-o-w t-h-e c-a-m-a-r-o
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