Honda Element

Kirstie_H · May 2005

A writer with a national magazine is writing an article on 8 cars that are under $20K for families on a budget or as a 2nd or 3rd car. He is looking for parents with young children who have recently purchased or are planning to purchase any one of the following vehicles: VW Jetta the new Value Edition, Chevy Cobalt (with SAB), Mitsubishi Galant, Toyota Matrix, Pontiac Vibe, Ford Focus Wagon, Honda Element, Kia Sorento or Dodge Caravan. The writer would like to know if they like it, dislike it, what are the family-style features and what kind of deal did you get on the car? If you fit what the writer is looking for, please email your responses to kholguin@edmunds.com by May 13, 2005.

micweb · May 2005

Try Ikea, they have very good foam mattress in twin ($49) and double $99) sizes, and they roll up pretty tight. They both come with sewn on covers, so they are ready to use. It's foam specifically designed for beds - not too soft or too hard. These will beat a Thermarest for comfort, and because they are relatively thin (in the cheapest version) don't weigh too much. This assumes you won't be backpacking with your mattress!

micweb · May 2005

When I bought my CR-V I checked out the parts dept. and they had lots of special products for body care, including products specifically for Element CR-V plastic bumpers and body panels.

dweiser · May 2005

I named it Watson from Sherlock Holmes' "ELEMENTary My Dear Watson". It's an AWD EX, auto. I'll be 60 this August and I really like this vehicle. Please, no snickering but I traded in a 2003 Nissan Murano SL with 9,500 miles on it. I liked the Murano very much, more luxury, etc, but I really like this boxy thing. I have owned three Hondas in my life and they were all pretty much bullet-proof. Hope one built in OH is too.

believe · May 2005

Snicker? What for? My wife and I just gave up a 2003 Odyssey. I'd do it again in
a heartbeat. We love this Element. The Odyssey was boring. Great for hauling
friends and family for vacation and dinner etc etc. We just love the Element.
I'll be turning 55 next month and this car does make you feel younger!

We have owned several Hondas since 1977. Not one ever had to go to the shop
for anything but oil changes (I did most of them).
Did I say we love our element? :shades:

lumbar · May 2005

I really think it's pretty interesting that a company with Honda's knowledge/resources could so misunderstand a target market for its own vehicle.
Clearly they wanted to believe that the young adults such as those in the pictures in the brochure would buy and then progress through the Honda line as they got older. But one would think somewhere in the gazillion focus groups they probably conducted that they would have discovered that they could sell even more of 'em to the young at heart (who BTW also happen to have a bit of disposable $$$). I don't have much doubt that their less than inclusive marketing approach may have denied them more sales than it has gotten them. They really should have tried to "broaden their base" as the politicos say.

robr2 · May 2005

Honda actual target was identified as something like a 22 YO unemployed college student/recent grad. But they knew that those people can't buy new cars.

Now if they directly targeted 55+, empty nesters it wouldn't sell. Today's empty nesters are pretty vain and would never buy anything directly targeted at them. They buy products that make them look and feel young.

IMHO, Honda knew that older folks would buy Elements. Same with Scion - how many college kids buy Xb's?

lumbar · May 2005

Well, it's only MO, but I can't give Honda that much credit for reverse psychology in their marketing approach. While I guess Honda could be different, most companies go right at the demographic they want, which (again IMO) is why so much advertising today reeks of pained attempts to be young and hip. Car companies love to develop appealing entry level models to nurture buyers up through their product line, and I think Honda was going for a somewhat similar (not unemployed, but out of school and working) market that VW reached with the Jetta and its ad campaign.

I'd agree that boomers are less amenable to the obvious sell, but I'm questioning Honda's failure to broaden their approach across most demographics, not simply their failure to target 50+ empty nesters, who I think buy the vehicle for its excellent practicality and value (gotta think of retirement), not out of any desire to necessarily act young. When you get right down to it, the only demographic that the car is really unsuitable for is those with a couple of growing kids, who will buy a minivan. I think Subaru does this sort of age-neutral, active lifestyle marketing very well, and you really can't tell who they're aiming at. Sorry to belabor this point, but I Iove what Honda tried to do with the actual Element vehicle, but their marketing--to the extent they pursued it-- has always kind of bugged me.

robr2 · May 2005

IIRC, Honda stated "unemployed".

I didn't mean that Honda directly targeted empty nesters but they probably knew that most of the buyers were not going to be their target market. But the important thing for Honda is that the average buyer of the Element is 36 YO - much younger than Accord buyers.

ateixeira · May 2005

Jetta sold primarily to young women.

Scion's demographics are pretty young, at least compared to Toyota.

36 for the Element is not bad, most mid-size cars have median ages in the 40s, so they're succeeding in bringing in younger buyers. Oddly enough it seems to be one extreme or the other, i.e. very young or AARP members. Probably due to the suicide-style doors not appealing to 35-50 year olds with kids.

Subaru uses a lot of niche marketing. They were pretty bold to use Martina in Forester ads, for instance. And they co-market with LL Bean a lot. They seem to have the college professor/bird watcher/fly fisherman demographic.

-juice

phily99 · May 2005

Just bought an '05 Element LX. Asked for AWD & Stick no other options and a color that closely matched all the plastic (black or silver). You'd think I'd asked for the moon but they finally found one in a neighboring state. This old guy, 61, loves it! Great price, more fun to drive than my 1962 VW bus, very roomy, although not as roomy as the gas guzzling Chevy Tahoe that I traded, but still adequate. The rear seats fold up great but I removed them, very easy, don't need them, but do need the room. My son, 32 years old was ready to buy a Scion but after driving my LX box is converted. He'd go for the louder colors, keep the seats, throw in a better sound system etc, I'm sure. The point is, this vehicle is very flexible. It will appeal to a wide cross section of buyers. Young, old, boomers, X's & Y's. Cheap first car, great 2nd car, good start up family car (although no more than 2 kids and a couple of dogs) and I don't see the problem with the doors, they're excellent for rear access, especially for those poor mothers that have to go through the car seat routine all the time. Ah for the good old days when I hauled 11 kids to a soccer game in the back of an astro. Honda is realizing the wide appeal and I'd look for more variations in the future, both in options and marketing campaigns. Even my wife finally! left her '05 Chrysler 300 to take it for a ride and after she got her clutch foot working again (like riding a bike you never forget) she loved it, although not as much as her 300, which is a good thing.

goatruckus · May 2005

Does anyone have the cargo organizer? If so, could you please pass along the measurements for width, lenth and height.

Also, are you happy with your purchase? Is it quick and easy to collapse?

phily99 · May 2005

Just purch '05 element with stick. Love this transmission. Shifts very smooth and fun to drive. Only problem is the engine is too quiet. I'm used to shifting with the engine noise. Have to use the tach or turn the radio down. Question - does anyone know where I can find a graph with the torque curve for this V Tech? I do some hauling and this would help time my shifting. Thanks !

varmint · May 2005

The Element's engine is the same as the one used in the 2003-present Accord. Here's the torque curve supplied by Honda. Note this is torque at the flywheel, not the tires.

http://i.tnpv.us/pv/2002/07/29/HON2002072947802_pv.jpg

phily99 · May 2005

Varmint - Thanks for Torque Curve info! Great low end torque. Thought I felt it but weights I haul vary, so wasn't sure.

daft_punk · May 2005

That is the question.

I've a 2005 Element here. Anyone know at what mileage I should get my first oil change ?

I drive a combo of city-highway-country and thought I should change it at 3000 miles. However, the dealer told me to wait until 5000, as does the manual. I normally would change it on the early side, yet the car uses break-in oil, so changing it early may not be a good idear.

Wadda' you guys think ?

The daft one

owenp · May 2005

I have a rattle noise around the windshield / dash area that has had four attempts to fix - with no results. The last repair included replacing the A pillars.
Is this related to the '03 windshield design class action? Any advise on fixing this problem?

Owenp

tcarpenter · May 2005

The AWD Element is the perfect car except that the sunroof is in the wrong freaking place!!!! What were they thinking. Can you put an aftermarket up front??
Any idea if the next version will fix this??? :mad: :mad:

:confuse:

robr2 · May 2005

The AWD Element is the perfect car except that the sunroof is in the wrong freaking place!!!!

The sunroof was placed in back to be able to change in and out of a wet suit while standing up. With the rear tinted windows and the seats folded up, it's a perfect changing room.

ateixeira · May 2005

If you want conventional, get a CR-V. :P

-juice

philly3 · May 2005

Nothing in manual about early oil change - however my dealer offers FREE oil change & filter at first 3500 mi. on elements. Can't hurt and can't pass up a freebe.

Sunroof location is worthless except for putting on my wetsuit, if I ever get one. I'd rather have integrity of a solid roof. Had no choice as this is standard item on 4WD's. I'm guessing, but moving the sunroof to a usefull forward location would probably compromise roof strength over the doors (no pillar remember) which is needed in the event of a roll-over.

ateixeira · May 2005

But the CR-V has one in that location and it meets all the same standards...

Perhaps the Element is shorter? Is the A-pillar closer to the B-pillar? Maybe they thought anything between those would just be too small.

I do recall them stating a large concern with rigidity given the suicide door opening below the B-pillar. That is an important joint, probably the weak spot in the structure, so they might not be able to remove it for a large moonroof.

-juice

lumbar · May 2005

Interesting comments. FWIW, I never thought of the Element as having a "sunroof" at all--as opposed to having one in the "wrong" place. Honda calls the opening a skylight, and it's placement is consistent with the overall design and goals of the vehicle. In addition to allowing people to stand up in that location, the placement is mainly designed to permit long objects to protrude through the roof, so it's placement in the cargo area is appropriate. In addition, those who want to hit the rack in the Element probably will have their heads at that end and use the opening both for the view and the ventilation.

I guess Honda should consider a "real" sunroof in the front for those who want one, with the extra $$$ it would cost, and assuming the structure permits it. But if I had my choice of one or the other, IMO the opening that's there now "fits" with the vehicle.

varmint · May 2005

The original concept (Model X) had not just a moonroof, but a sliding panel which opened in that place. If you've seen the sliding roof on the Envoy XUV, you've got the general idea. When the concept was translated into a production vehicle, they had to go with a more conventional design.

If you really want a traditional moonroof, get one installed. I believe it would have to be one that lifts up and over the top of the roof (rather than sliding into the roof), but it can be done. I've seen pics of an E with 3 openings up top.

307web · May 2005

Of course the reason for the free oil change is to get you started on the 3500 mile habit so you will be back getting more oil changes at 7000 miles and on from there.

ateixeira · May 2005

Go for it, we have ASC moonroofs on both our Forester and Legacy, one manual pop-up the other powered. They do make the ones that go up and over.

The limitation would be the B-pillar - I would not let them cut it at any costs due to the wide door opening in that location. So it might have to be a small one.

Imagine the ventilation you could get with all the windows and both moonroofs open, it would be almost like a convertible. :shades:

-juice

micweb · May 2005

You said:

The limitation would be the B-pillar - I would not let them cut it at any costs due to the wide door opening in that location. So it might have to be a small one.

That brings to mind the early reports on the Element that indicate that B pillar area is heavily reinforced to provide adequate side impact resistance in a crash; the suicide door design apparently calls for a different approach than traditional doors. I don't know how much that reinforcement continues into, or is dependent on, the roof. This could be another reason why the Element doesn't have a traditional moonroof in a traditional location.

ateixeira · May 2005

My thinking exactly.

-juice

lumbar · May 2005

FWIW: aftermarket sunroof

link title

The link will work; otherwise I have no clue how to insert the title.

tidester · May 2005

To include text in your link include the "anchor tag." It works like this:

<a href="the actual link goes here in quotes">the desired text goes here!</a>

which might be typed like this in your case:

<a href="http://www.webastoshowroom.com/Honda_element_2004_524.htm">Lumbar's Magical Link</a>

which would look like this in the published version:

Lumbar's Magical Link

Try it!

tidester, host

ateixeira · May 2005

Check out the twin spoiler sunroofs on that site, they're pretty neat. You could end up with 3!

-juice

chargerfan · May 2005

From everything I've read on these Boards, and my test drive, I really like the Element. I see a couple of major things that cause me concern....the suicide doors, the payload limit and it only being a 4 seater.

I have 3 (15, 10 & 8) boys part time (due to divorce), so as a solo vehicle for me it would be great. However, when we all get in the car together, I calculate that we combined weigh about 600 pounds...if we bring any of our gear for camping, etc. we'll be over the 675 limit. Also, not sure about the smaller boys in the backseat and getting out for school (and yes, I know the Element wasn't designed for a family). Also, I really hate the looks of the CR-V.

Does anyone know where I could rent an Element for a week or so to figure out some of this issues and really give it a test drive? I am in San Diego, but would be willing to get something anywhere in So Cal. I already Googled it and couldn't find anything. Thanks.

miata007 · May 2005

Recently, I went on a road trip (Civic 4 dr) and realized I need more space for a passenger and myself. I want it to have plenty of space, good fuel economy, and inexpensive ($18,000 to $20,000). So I come to two options, Element or Xterra. The Element has better fuel economy and storage. The Xterra has tons more power but is a gas guzzler. For the same price of a nicely loaded Element, I can get the base Xterra. That means manual windows, mirrors and locks, 6sp manual, 2WD. On the other hand, the Xterra can easily tow 2000 to 3000 lbs. At this time, Xterras are selling around invoice somewhat like the Elements. But I will think it will have incentives like $1k to $2k at the end of the year. I only tow once a while when I need something from Home Depot or rental shops. I don't go offroading so I don't have a need for 4wd or AWD.

The Element is efficient and probably more reliable so less operating cost. The Xterra has the V6, 4doors, and can tow. With my life style, either one would work. What's you guys opinion on this?

Thanks
007

lumbar · May 2005

No offroading, no Xterra IMO. What's the need?

307web · May 2005

Do you need the extra towing, off-roading and load weight capacity of the Xterra or not?
The answer answers your own question.

miata007 · May 2005

I do have an old Pathfinder that I use to tow a small cargo trailer. I am looking to get a car to replaced my civic. If I get the Element, it will be my daily car and have to keep my PF for towing. But on the other hand, the Xterra can replace both my civic and the PF but will consume more gas and offers less space during travel. I do like the idea of flat floor in the Element so two people can sleep in it. Just can't seem to make up my mind.

007

varmint · June 2005

I think the need to tow is really the only question worth debating. I understand you tow on an infrequent basis. I know in my area you can rent a truck from places like Home Depot or Lowes for about $20. If you took advantage of such an offer, would that meet your needs? Or do you also need to tow for other reasons?

extremebigdog · June 2005

There is a car rental/share company in LA that has an Element. I forget what the name of it is but its all self service. You pay a monthly access fee and an hourly rental fee/mileage fee to share one of these rentals. Could be a good Saturday LA experience. You can reserve the particular time you need. I think they keep the Element in their downtown LA location. They have locations in places like large apartment complexes.

Anyways, we just took our element camping for the first time over the weekend and it worked out great! I wouldn't worry about the load limitations unless your pulling a trailer. We were right up close to the weight limit for the whole trip. It smoothed out nicely over the bumps and the suspension was still stiff enough to handle mountain curves well. It kept up nicely on the freeway as well, averaging 20.5 mpg (AWD EX) at 85mph. There was one hairpin corner I entered a bit too fast but the Element still handled great. I needed to give the breaks a sharp hit to keep from entering the oncoming lane and the brake force distribution did its job very well, applying full force to the inside rear wheel causing ABS activation.

It also did very well ferrying loads of people on the Jeep trails to get to the fishing spots. The extra weight really helps gain traction but you have to be extra careful to keep the wheels on the ground because you loose another inch and a half of ground clearance when its loaded. It does scrape easily but its manageable. The AWD system works as it should but the reverse gear in the automatic is not quite right. There were a few times when the trail was a bit too severe, or another line needed to be selected for ground clearance, when reverse bogged down. It wouldn't move the Element or even spin the tires. A bit of rocking generated the momentum necessary. The hills/rocks were just too much for the tall reverse gear. But going forward on the same hills yielded appropriate wheel spin and progress.

There are two things to prepare for the next trip. (1) Bug Netting. I can't sleep in the Element comfortably without some ventilation. So I'm thinking of some bug netting and magnets to put on the outside so the windows/skylight can be left open. (2) Skylight Shade. My poor rear seat passengers got baked on the long daytime road trips. Need to rig up some kind of sun block. Darker tinting is an option but doesn't completely block the sun. So I'm thinking of that reflective sun shade material to make a screen.

In summary, the Element is the very best camping/all around vehicle for 2-4 people that I've ever had. It doesn't do quite as well off road as my Jeep did but its still possible to get just about anywhere you want to go. And it does it in comfort and reliability, with room to spare.

miata007 · June 2005

Towing is a requirement for me. In my area, we too have HD or Lowe where we can rent a truck for $20 but usually it's not practical. For the amount, there is a time limitation otherwise the cost will go up. I often drive to my parent's house to pick up a 8hp rototiller, cement mixer. We have just moved into a new house so we have been doing a lot of home upgrades and backyard projects. I take my trialer to the material place to get rocks/gravels/barks 1/2 ton at a time. My PF is old with 200k mi. I have been keeping it around because it is very reliable and handy. My question is:
PF + Element + lots of space vs Xterra + lots of gas - parking space

I think I will have to test drive both vehicles first for me to decide.

007

markjenn · June 2005

007, my take is that if you don't have any other need for the PF and can't make the Element fill your towing needs, get the Xterra. Given the huge fixed costs of owning a vehicle, keeping a 2nd car around just for the occasional hauling is simply not cost effective compared to spending the extra on gas in the Xterra.

If you're really iinto getting the better mileage, have you considered the diesel Liberty?

- Mark

atlgaxt · June 2005

I've kind of been in the same boat. My wife and I like the Xterra and Element because they are both excellent dog cars and have good cargo carrying utility, due primarily to the simple wipe down interiors and cube like shapes. I like the fact that the Element is less expensive and burns less gas than an Xterra. However, I really need more off road capability and towing capability then the Element offers, so I am leaning towards the Xterra.

I was also intrigued by the diesel Liberty, thinking I might be able to have my cake and eat it also. However, it is more expensive, has limited cargo / dog capacity with the seats up, and does not offer stability control, as I have said that I am not buying another tall truck without this feature. (Because the Element is car based, better handling and cheaper, I can forgive it for this fault).

The big problem with the diesel Liberty is reliability, which Jeep is weak on in general. Looking at the Jeep diesel board, there are a lot of problems reported so far, especially in consideration of the small number of vehicles sold, so I would be real worried about buying this until more come out and a better track record is established.

ateixeira · June 2005

CR-V has stability control but it's less dog-friendly.

Who's gonna own this car, anyway? You or the dogs?

The diesel Liberty costs more to acquire and diesel itself costs more than premium fuel right now, plus it will only go up when the low-sulfur variety arrives.

I like diesels but the conditions in the USA are not favorable to them.

-juice

atlgaxt · June 2005

Its pretty sad to admit, but with no kids, two good sized dogs and a mountain house we go to on a regular basis, the dogs are a major consideration in our vehicular choice.

When the wife and I go to a car show, we start at the back looking at the cargo area, and if it works for the dogs, (enough room, flat fold down seats, an easy to clean cargo area, etc.) I will sit in the driver's seat and see if I will fit. I never thought I would become that type of a person....

The joke is, we are to poor to buy high falutin breed dogs, so we get our dogs for free. But we have spent untold thousands of dollars on fences, specific vehicles, accessories, vet bills and on and on for stinking slobbering mutts.

varmint · June 2005

Boy, do I know that story.

I've got two greyhounds. With just my wife and I, my CR-V has been perfect. We fold down the seats, stick the dogs in the back, and I even have a hitch-mounted cargo basket for extra gear that doesn't fit in with the dogs. It handles well enough, it's easy to maneuver, it's got 110K miles on it and I still average 25 mpg.

Problem is... Mrs. Varmint is pregnant and we're expecting a little varmint in September. With a baby seat in the back, I can't fold both seats down to make room for the hounds. Now I'm looking to trade up to a larger vehicle, but it's got to have a big enough cargo floor to handle both dogs without folding the seats. Half of the mid-size SUVs can't do that! The hounds take up too much space. About the only ones with the floor space are the Pilot, RDV, and a few of the truck-based rigs. None of those offer the same qualities I appreciate about the CR-V.

If I could just shrink the hounds, I could buy an RDX or Highlander.

varmint · June 2005

Sounds like the Xterra sucks too much gas and the Element isn't going to cut it for towing. The CR-V doesn't make the cut because of the styling and I'm going to assume the Forester and RAV4 are too small and too expensive.

How about a Santa Fe? (Personally, I dislike the styling, but you never what'll catch someone's fancy.)

robr2 · June 2005

Problem is... Mrs. Varmint is pregnant and we're expecting a little varmint in September.

Congrats varmint!!

Best to you, Mrs. Vamint and the soon to be varmint jr!!

You had alluded to maybe an addition but this is the first I've heard of it actually happening.

By the way - forget the SUV. Come to the dark side, there's a nice silver Odyssey waiting for you.

north1 · June 2005

I'm with rob2r on that one varmit. Dogs and little ones provide for much needed additional space. My EX 4wd E sits along side an 00 EX Odyssey...problem solved.....with the rear seats folded down you have suburban size cargo area and still have 4 captain chairs for the crew. worth a look

-north14-

anonymousposts · June 2005

Parenthood will be the most rewarding (and stressful) task you will ever take on. But when it's all said and done nothing compares to the feeling when you first see your little baby.

I also think you should consider a mini-van. Better gas mileage, more room, and very safe as well. My personal favorite is the Ody but the MPV and Sienna are worth a look as well.

varmint · June 2005

The wife won't allow a minivan. I kid you not, I'd be driving a small van now rather than the CR-V, but she wouldn't have it.

For my part, I prefer something smaller than a van. With one kid, it's overkill. I've considered the Outback, the Highlander, the Tribeca, and several other "smaller" mid-size cross-overs. Few of them have the floor space in the cargo area. Actually, the Tribeca comes very close, but even my sense of esthetics rose to the back of my throat having seen one in person. The Pilot has the cargo space, but it's big and too clunky. I might go with a slightly used MDX. Still big, but it doesn't "feel" like it.

robr2 · June 2005

varmint - consider a Passat Wagon. Or a Rigdeline and have the hounds ride in transporters.

Honda Element

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