Honda Element

atlgaxt · June 2005

Yea, right now my wife has an anti-Korean car bias, and I can't get past the styling. But I have thought about a Sante Fe (and Tucson for that matter). My wife already drives a Forester Turbo. Love the car, but I have to admit if we were in the market for that vehicle right at this moment (I hope none of the Subaru Crew is listening), we might have saved some money and bought her an Element. The power of the Forester is fun, but you pay for it in lower gas mileage and the expense of premium gas. Two years ago, we both could not get past the styling of the Element, but it has really grown on us in the mean time. Congrats on the pregnancy!

varmint · June 2005

Does the VW have more cargo space than an Outback or Highlander?

As silly as it sounds, greyhounds have to wear coats when I take them for a walk in the winter. Even when housed in a crate, they'd freeze riding in the back of a pick-up when we go skiing. Besides, the Ridgeline doesn't meet my size or mpg requirements.

varmint · June 2005

Yeah, the Santa Fe is actually quite big inside. Bigger than the Tucson (which looks good for the price). But the design of the Sante Fe is a little behind the times.

"She Who Cooks" still hates the Element (styling issues). Even after attending several events where she's been able to mix and mingle with Element owners. Personally, I don't have such an aversion to odd looking cars. They aren't my preference, but I'm not afraid of them.

And Thanks!

robr2 · June 2005

The Passat has 55 cubic ft, the Outback 66 cubic ft, the Highlander 81 cubic ft.

How about a Mazda 5?

micweb · June 2005

You said:

"She Who Cooks" still hates the Element (styling issues).

I ran into the same issue with my wife on both the Element and the xB. We have a CR-V instead, which is so BORING.

varmint · June 2005

Robr - The cubes don't really matter as much as the floor space. Traditionally, Subaru does a good job with making a wide, flat floor in their wagons. It's just not quite enough until you get to the Tribeca in size. It's the opposite with the Highlander. While the Toyota has decent cubic footage, the shape of the cargo area leaves something to be desired. Remember, I have to keep the seats upright.

Micweb - I'll take boring. So will the wife. I'll even take odd. It's when the scales are tipped into ugly that we run into problems.

ateixeira · June 2005

I spend a ton on my dog so I know what you mean.

Subaru includes a cargo liner in the Forester and Outback, I imagine you can get one from the aftermarket for just about any vehicle. I've had 2 big lab/doberman mixes back there but you definitely need to fold the 2nd row in a compact.

Consider also a Mazda5, not sure if you'd call that a van or whatever, I think they're cool looking.

-juice

philly3 · June 2005

I need to tow occasionally and I haul cargo inside 800 to 1500 #. Was down to the Element & Jeep Liberty Diesel. Ended up with the Element and it has worked out great. The diesel sounded good until I priced fuel and the 23-25 mpg fell to about 15 mpg equivalent. Depends on what state your in re taxes and PA is one of the highest on diesel. Element price about $5,000 cheaper. More usefull cargo space, and style? well my wife, who initially thought it was ugly, now enjoys driving it and has upgraded it to "the fun car". The weight is no problem especially with the standard 5 speed. For serious towing I wouldn't recommend it, but for the occasional chipper or 4x8's from home depot it's perfect. The rear seats fold up easily to the wall (no loading cargo on the back of a folded seat) are removed easily & at about 50# ea will increase weight capacity. Its designed to take a beating inside and as a utility vehicle is dynamite, As for the suicide doors, I love them. Slide the front seat up and you could walk an elephant thru, Also I have no problems in a parking space with the doors. Just remember which way they open. Duh? And once again this is a fun puppy to drive, especially the 5 speed ! !

robr2 · June 2005

Even when housed in a crate, they'd freeze riding in the back of a pick-up when we go skiing. Besides, the Ridgeline doesn't meet my size or mpg requirements.

Oh how silly - what makes you think you are going to go skiing after the baby is born??!! If you do, it'll be alone and the hounds can ride inside with you.

ateixeira · June 2005

you could walk an elephant thru

LOL!

-juice

geeknic · June 2005

I have a 1992 Jeep Cherokee that I bought back in 1997. It has 139,000 miles on it and runs great but the Maine winters have taken their toll. The jeep is starting to rust all over the place and I'm sick of welding patches. I will be getting another vehicle soon. I've been looking at the Element but I tow two snowmobiles so I'd need the all-wheel-drive model. My question is-- would the vehicle be able to tow them? I know the specs for the element say it has a 1500lb towing capacity but...

If anyone has any info, I'd appreciate it.

ateixeira · June 2005

My concern would be ground clearance, also. The CR-V has more of it and weighs less with the same engine, so it might be a better choice for you.

-juice

varmint · June 2005

Honda is pretty conservative with their ratings, so the Element may handle a bit more than the 1,500 lbs limit. However, if you get into an accident, have a problem with the drivetrain, or any other problems, Honda won't back the vehicle. And, if someone gets hurt, you'd probably be liable.

anonymousposts · June 2005

is back to wanting an Element. We saw a black one with some nice wheels and tinted windows. I could definitely deal with an Element but don't think Gee can cross the line to actually trading his Civic instead of just talking about it.

varmint · June 2005

Wait until the changes for the '06 models are announced. The hype may be enough to push him off the fence.

carquery · June 2005

Hi. I'm hoping the Element owners out there will have some good insight on this one. I'm trying to decide between the Element and the Scion Xb for my next car. The AWD, additional safety features and larger "trunk" of the Element are wooing me, but all the comments I've found on it have it averaging in the low to mid-20s as far as MPG goes. The Xb generally comes in in the mid-30s. This car will be used 90% for around town (my wife's car is the long distance comfort cruiser) and I like the idea of a fuel efficient car. I'm weighing the Xb's traction control, VSC and better mileage (the interior room for 2 kids seems acceptably equal) ivs. the Elements AWD, safety, and larger storage.

So, what kind of mileage are you guys averaging?

north1 · June 2005

22-24 mpg on an 04' AWD EX...mostly in-town driving.

Be careful in making comparisons between the E and the xB. Drive both and you will find a large driving difference. The E actually drives like a small SUV while the xB feels like you are driving a go-cart with a windshield...granted, the mpg is much better in the xB as it is lighter and smaller but is the trade off worth sacrificing things like ride and safety?...For me the choice was easy after rolling in both... Good luck.

ateixeira · June 2005

I'm not sure I'd pick safety as the Element's primary advantage, given the poor side impact results (sans side air bags). Perhaps for the EX models only, but not models without those bags.

Element is bigger and more substantial, so it's a little ironic that the xB has more payload and a 5th passenger seat.

Element offers AWD, wider door openings, low-maintenance cargo area, clam shell hatch, and a much torquier engine.

xB offers a lower price, a 5th seat, and more fuel efficiency.

-juice

philly3 · June 2005

(ateixeira) I would have no problem towing 1500# as far as engine torque etc is concerned. The only reserve I might have is that I'd hesitate with an automatic unless I installed a transmission fluid cooler. I have a stick and can control when I shift so I maximize torque and don't have to slip the clutch. As good as automatics are these days they still will hunt on hills etc and without a cooler you could tear up a trans pretty quick. This is not just Honda but automatics in general. When trans fluid heats up it's life is drastically reduced and even with a cooler I'd change fluid often. Also if your doing high speed towing, 65+, this box is NOT aerodynamic and geared low, so your really working the tranny. If your doing any serious towing 1-2 wk, 500+ miles and want to stay small look at the Liberty diesel, but remember the tranny issues still exist. Good luck.

silver_bullet · July 2005

After looking at Elements since the day they hit the lots, I finally took the plunge and bought an almost new 2004 EX AWD auto with side air bags and only 5K miles from a gent on eBay. I pick it up on the 4th! Can anyone describe (or tell me where to buy) the correct adapter cable to connect a mini iPod to the aux input jack?

nowakj66 · July 2005

Just a stereo mini jack on both ends is all you need (looks like headphine jack on both ends). Easy to buy at Radio Shack or similar. You may already own one! Aux jack is a great feature of the Element.

andyman1970 · July 2005

I use a Creative Nomad Zen Xtra in my Element. Picked up this unit as well as the required aux adapter at www.crutchfield.com. Radio Shack should have this part as well for about $4.

silver_bullet · July 2005

Thanks for the responses

The drive home was pretty uneventful, and the Element seems to be a nice roadtrip vehicle. I'm sure this has been mentioned repeatedly, but I noticed a pronounced PTTR most of the way home at highway speeds. It was more pronounced on certain crowned road surfaces, and almost nonexistant on other surfaces. Could this relate to the crummy Wrangler HP tires? Man, these tires ROAR on less than smooth pavement.

56bluetruck · July 2005

will that work with a cassette player or only for MP3 input? We are trading in an old Jeep Cherokee today for a blue 2005 EX4wd 5speed - very exciting.

nowakj66 · July 2005

The Aux Jack works with any device that supports the mini headphone jack out. I really would not call the stereo mini cables adapters in the same way I would a device that adapts a car tape head unit via "cassette tape" with a stereo mini hack out to a portable CD player.

BTW - if you have a car with a cassette tape head, these tape adapters are definitely the way to go over the FM wireless transmitters - I have yet to find one of those that works really well.

So if your cassette player has that mini headphone jack out, you should be good to go.

As for the iPod, I picked up a Griffin Air Click that gives you a little steering wheel mounted remote to control the iPod when it is hardwired into your system. This way you are not fumbling with the iPod at speed. Works great in the house but have not tried it on the road.

nowakj66 · July 2005

Honda preview lists some new colors and a new trim level above the EX 4WD as EX-P 4WD for 2006.

There at least two new colors, Atomic blue metallic and tangerine metallic.

Any idea what the EX-P 4WD trim level would offer beyond the current EX 4WD?

dweiser · July 2005

Anyone replaced the original Wrangler tires either right away or through normal wear? If you like what you replaced them with, please share new tire make & model with me/us. Thanks.

ateixeira · July 2005

Bet that one looks cool, with plenty of contrast.

I still think they should do a yellow one to steal away some H2 sales. ;-)

-juice

micweb · July 2005

If you aren't going onto dirt roads, consider the new Kumho Solus KH-16, which replace the excellent Ecsta 716. Smooth and quiet. Cheap too. See if your Sears has them.

robr2 · July 2005

I see lots of yellow E's around here. Servicemaster - a franchinsing company - uses them. Must be a custom paint job as the plastic cladding is yellow as well.

nowakj66 · July 2005

Could an Element EX-P mean painted side panels rather than plastic cladding?

robr2 · July 2005

That could be it!!

nowakj66 · July 2005

When do 06 Elements arrive? Last year it was like December, right?

ateixeira · July 2005

That's been the pattern since they came out. Let's see if it gets the upgrades the CR-V got.

-juice

sebski21 · July 2005

On the 4th of July weekend I packed my E with two bikes, a tent, a grill, just-pregnant wife and a lot of other camping junk and we headed to Wisconsin from Chicago. After a year of E ownership that was the first longer trip so I was curious what highway mileage I would get. I was pleasantly surprised: we made 409 miles on a 13.088 gallon fill-up. That gave a great 31.25mpg.
I must admit I tried to get as much as possible. We drove mostly 60-65mph. The E is 4-speed 2WD EX. My average in the mixed driving is 25-26mpg.
Has anyone achieved more than 31mpg which I think it's possible considering a fully packed E on my trip?

mickjazz · July 2005

hi

i have had my element for 3 months and have driven it about 5000 miles, all on long trips.

the first big trip from seattle to st. george utah was fairly pleasant, driving mostly 75+ mph on the interstates. my wife felt it was more sensitive in steering and needed more correction than our mazda b4000 pickup which we have parked for a while.

Then we took a trip from utah to texas on i40 across arizona and new mexico. the winds were BIG and from the south, hitting the element directly on the side. it was manageable but i had to slow down to 65 or so at times and it required attention - no drinking coffee with one hand and steering with the other.

But coming back across i70 from grand junction to the i15 was just terrible. the winds were unmerciful and the element felt like my old 66 vw bug which would change lanes on the oakland bay bridge in windy conditions. i don't know how high the winds on i70 were but they were strong and gusty, maybe 30+ mph gusts, you could see other cars and rv's slow down too but the big suv's plowed on faster and faster. it was a very unpleasant driving experience.

i have to take the car in for the first oil change this week and i want them to check the suspension to see if something is wrong. i'm not saying the car is unsafe but in high winds it's borderline.

the design may need side skirts or some modification to the roof line - like a rounded cap. if it's a problem in the suspension unloading then it's more serious but may be corrected with different shocks.

HAS ANYONE ELSE DRIVEN THEIR ELEMENT IN HIGH CROSSWINDS????????

ateixeira · July 2005

It's not fair to compare if you're coming from a low slung coupe, for example. You just can't cheat physics, and this thing has a tall/wide profile that's like a sail compared to, say, an Accord coupe.

Just slow down a bit for bridges. I'm sure you get used to it.

-juice

nowakj66 · July 2005

If they add VSA and the 5 speed auto tranny to the Element in 2006, I would be happy.

nowakj66 · July 2005

Will there be a follow up model to the first Element in 2008 or later? Or will there be only one? It's hard to gauge its popularity and profitability to Honda.

With the Acura RDX and Honda CR-V production moving to Ohio in 2006, will there be capacity to continue to make Elements?

What are your thoughts about how successful the Element has been for Honda and whether they will invest in a redesign?

ateixeira · July 2005

I say it's a big hit. Yearly sales have been above forecasts every year so far. It cost them very little to make given the stuff from the parts-bin. Finally, it did not cannibalize CR-V sales, either.

So Honda invested little and it exceeded sales goals while hurting no other Honda products. They probably had to hire more people to count the money.

From a marketing success standpoint, I give it an A+.

-juicre

varmint · July 2005

Dunno. I've been kinda curious about that, as well.

I agree with Juice about it being a hit from a sales/profit standpoint. But there are a few chinks in the armor. While it does appeal to the younger set (more than most any other Honda), it has not been exclusively the youth-mobile I think they wanted.

I think we could see a replacement for the Element, but it might not be CR-V-based like the current generation. They might take the xB approach and use one of their JDM vehicles as the basis for the next generation. This could help them reduce costs and put the rig closer to the price range of the target audience.

nowakj66 · July 2005

I think the flaw in developing products for the youth market is cost. For people just starting careers, even $15000 is a lot for a car.

When talking to a Scion sales person he said the typical xB buyer at his dealership was late 30s or early 40s male -- and that is a relatively inexpensive car - about $16k.

The car makers have a tough nut to crack because they have to set the features / content high enough but the price low enough to appeal to the youth market they want to tap into to secure their brand's future.

The problem that folks older than the target market see the value proposition and have the means to actually buy one.

I myself am considering a new family vehicle in the next 18 - 24 months and have considered everything from xBs on the low end to an Odyssey Touring or Acura MDX.

Maybe I am unique but if I can solve the family transportation problem with something like an Element or xB, I get a warm fuzzy feeling inside. I enjoy somewhat outsmarting the marketers. And they do their best to somewhat poison a choice targeted at one demographic (say youth) to another demographic (middle age parents with families) by dropping features (4 seats, not 5 in Element) or adding crazy colors or styling to put off the non-target demographic.

I am sure the Honda corporate product line planners know what they are doing.

The have nothing to fear from the likes of me -- I sense I am an oddball of sorts in my car purchasing tastes, at least in my immediate peer group of corporate office workers, because when I express an interest in such value-oriented, youth targeted choices like the xB or Element, I get funny looks.

ateixeira · July 2005

Actually you can get them for $13.8k. They have no-haggle pricing so you can't compare directly to an Element's MSRP, but still, prices are great.

-juice

mldeture · July 2005

I would love some advice on what to consider in the choice between the EX 2wd and 4wd. I had an '03 EX 2wd but unfortunately, I was hit recently and it has been totalled. I loved it and am for sure going to get another EX Element but am not sure whether I should "upgrade" to the 4wd.

I am under the impression that the only difference (other than the number of wheels driving) is in the sunroof and frankly I do want a sunroof but would rather it be over my head where I can enjoy it while driving.

I live in coastal NC and never thought I needed 4wd, so that's why I didn't get it before, but I now I hear that it is safer in wet conditions. Is this true?

Any advice helpful..

Thanks

nowakj66 · July 2005

If I were you and I could afford it, I would go for 4WD. The Mileage penalty is not that great and the resale should be better. If it is a manual transmission, I think the 4WD is even more important.

Nice to hear that after owning one Element you would replace with another!

micweb · July 2005

AWD (all wheel drive) is safer, slightly, in the rain than FWD (front wheel drive) which is safer in the rain than RWD (rear wheel drive) but any system with stability control is better, because stability control does a better job of correcting for your errors.

The Element 4WD is "on demand" four wheel drive, the difference being that power is only shifted to the rear wheels when you lose traction while accelerating straight ahead; it is useful only if you think you will get bogged down in snow or mud (stability control won't help you there).

If the Element 2WD never let you down, it weighs less and has fewer friction losses (only two wheels to drive). I would continue with the 2WD, but check out the CR-V which has ESP (stability) control, side air bags, side curtain airbags, and ABS, all standard, plus a 5 speed automatic transmission.

Most of those features will probably be added to the '06 Element if you can wait. I love the style of the Element, but got a CR-V just because of the better safety features and 5 speed automatic.

ateixeira · July 2005

Ever make it out to Corola beach? That's all sand, no paved roads at all. I'd get AWD just to be able to hit the beaches in the OBX.

Pic for fun...

-juice

stevedebi · July 2005

Just to compare, at those speeds with all highway, my 2003 CR-V (EX, AWD) will get 31 MPG as well. A bit less in town at 22 MPG. I get 27 at 75 MPH.

tdiblues · July 2005

I am chomping at the bit to get rid of my 2002 Jetta TDI wagon (though I love the mileage & handling, it is a LEMON & must be gone before the warranty is!) and want to replace it with an EX AWD manual Element. However, I have some of the same concerns about safety features as mentioned above - and the CR-V is my other top choice. (But the Element is so much more fun).

I keep seeing mentions about 2006 Elements & possible new features, but can't locate any sure info - such as definates on what the new features/upgrades will be, and when they can be expected to hit the market.

I'd appreciate any info!

TDI-Blues

anonymousposts · July 2005

will probably release the 2006's by September/October. Expect some more info by the end of August. All 2005 Elements have standard side airbags but we will have to wait until 2006 to see if they get side curtains.

Honda Element

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