Honda Element

varmint · September 2005

You can find details over at TOV. Frankly, I'm both surprised and very disappointed. Most of the upgrades make sense, but it still doesn't offer VSA like the Safety For Everyone campaign suggested. Gotta check the fine print on that one.

nowakj66 · September 2005

Thanks - looks like the 5 speed did not make it either so mileage should be about the same.

The upates appear to be limited to consmetic refreshes and not items that contribute to safety (with the exception of ABS added on some new models) or mileage.

I am curious as to how Proton blue differences from eternal blue pearl . . .

ateixeira · September 2005

Bummer, even the Civic gets that.

-juice

rockymtoyster · September 2005

I've got an 05 EX. I burned about 120 mp3's onto a CD last night. Popped the CD in this morning and the OEM stereo plays them flawlessly. 10 hours of music on a cd, it's a beautiful thing. Don't miss the 6cd changer at all now.

node8 · September 2005

check them out at safecar.com click link below.( It's better than nothing)

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ncap/cars/3658.html

307web · September 2005

No. The crash test pics of supposed 2006 models use old photos unless there is a design change and retest. They just reposted the old data for 2006.

node8 · September 2005

yeah your right I went into another forum and they told me. Darn it I feel silly! Sorry about that. :sick:

micweb · September 2005

Uh oh. What happened to the across the board side air/side curtain airbags we were hoping for, based on their addition to the CR-V last year? And what about stability control? What's up?

smoot1138 · September 2005

I've been to two Honda dealers here in Los Angeles who say they're coming out this month {Sept} but if so, I really thought I'd see more info on sites such as this.

ateixeira · September 2005

Keep in mind Element prices are lower, so adding a lot of standard equipment would have a bigger impact on price than it would for the pricier trucks in the lineup.

-juice

haikunalu · September 2005

Any more info when the 2006 elements are coming?I ordered a manual silver/blue EX here on Maui in mid May----still not in! At this point I wonder if I should just wait for the new models to be available. You folks who can drive to multiple dealers are lucky in many respects but I guess thats the price we pay to live here. The deal I got was$ 22,240 -total ,tax and license included.Only way to see another dealer is to fly to another island. I wonder if the new models will be about the same price.

smoot1138 · September 2005

Oooh, you know I saw a guy at the local Chevron filling up his brand new Cargo Khaki EX E. You could tell it was his baby as he was inspecting the hood and wiping off each speck of dirt that dared land on the paintwork. It was a lovely sight, I really don't think he would EVER let it off the asphalt, LOL!
On trying to decide which colour to choose, I downloaded pics of the E in three of my favourite colours. Magnesium Metallic, Ralleye Red and Cargo Khaki and photoshopped them side by side and then made it my computers desktop picture. Each day when I switch it on, I see the same three cars, my aim to finally see what colour fades my interest. After 3 weeks the Metallic won! Now come the fabulous sounding '06 colours...Kiwi Metallic, Atomic Blue Pearl...nice! You see my continuum dilemma huh? :confuse:

smoot1138 · September 2005

Hi Haiku,
You know, a friend of mine has just flown to Sweden to purchase a Volvo, they seem to be much more responsive to buyers who are loyal to the Volvo cars.
I wonder if it would be logical for you to fly to the US {do your price research via the web first, of course}, buy your E and have it shipped back to Maui. E's are going for around $18500 right now as they're trying to get rid of surplus '05's to make way for the 06's so there are plenty of deals to be made especially here with so many Honda dealer competitors.
A while ago another friend had his US classic car shipped back to his home in England, it cost him $450. Luckily, you still are on US soil. Just a thought...good luck!

smoot1138 · September 2005

No need to feel silly Node, it's the odd color that makes it look like it might be a newer model.

micweb · September 2005

I was surprised during a visit to my local Honda dealer to see a ton of new 2005 Elements on their back lot - with white protective film still on them. I would guess the Element won't be out for another month, if they are still delivering '05's, but on the other hand there were a ton of unsold 2005 Civics, many still with protective film on them, and the 2006's are starting to trickle in.

For what it's worth, in the '90's Honda was always the last to roll out new cars - you wouldn't see Accords and Civics until October or November - and the Element was introduced late in the year (November December?) so I wouldn't count on the '06 too soon. It is a car I like and I am eager to see the 06 changes....

nowakj66 · September 2005

I called American Honda and was told the 2006 Element Intro is Friday, October 21.

I always forget that it is not a secret to them and you can just call.

That said the changes are to be minimal. I am curious about the painted panels and the new shade of blue that is coming in 2006.

micweb · September 2005

Thanks. I am curious about safety. Based on the massive changes to the 2005 CR-V in terms of adding safety features (including beefing up the door structure to better withstand side impacts) and Honda's promise of added safety features across their entire product line (the triumvirate of stability control, abs, and side airbags) I have been hoping for a lot in 2006; but the 2006 Civic leaves out stability control, so now I am not sure what Honda's game-plan is. The 2006 Accord also leaves out stability control.

The Element didn't score sell in side crash tests. I am hoping to see a beefed up door structure and standard side and side curtain airbags, but given this is also a taller vehicle (like the CR-V) I'd like to see standard stability control as well. This hope is fast fading.....

varmint · September 2005

Honda never promised the "triumvirate" for their cars. They promised to add ABS and air bags, but not VSA. And, FWIW, the V6 model Accords do have VSA.

For their trucks, they promised ABS, air bags, and VSA. And the Element should have included those. But it's not going to happen. (I have no idea why.) The changes have been announced and VSA didn't make it.

micweb · September 2005

Varmint, thanks! Do you have a link for the announced changes for '06, or can you summarize them? Do ABS and side airbags make the cut? Do side curtain airbags get included? Any word on "beefing up" the door surround for side impacts?

And any word on horsepower? The 2006 Accord LX I looked at quickly is up to 166 horsepower (while the Camry is down to 156 from 160). I don't know whether Honda retuned their 4, or whether the number rose under the new SAE test standard (which is why Camry dipped).

The Element still appeals to me. We have a CR-V (my wife) but I find it pretty dreary.

ateixeira · September 2005

Accord's engine was re-tuned, I believe. It gained 10hp, but under the new SAE ratings it would go from 156 to 166.

I believe the CR-V sticks with 156, so the Element should get that much also. It would be shocking to see the cheaper Element get more HP than the CR-V.

-juice

smoot1138 · September 2005

Has anyone seen the new Honda full-line TV ads showing the '06 E Kiwi with the painted panels?

micweb · September 2005

What you say makes sense. If the CR-V is now rated at 156 h.p., it is probably due to the new SAE test. That means the Accord did gain 10 h.p., which is substantial. Very likely the CR-V didn't get retuned because it would have affected the torque curve...although I thought the Accord and CR-V weigh the same and have the same 5 speed transmission - so why not retune the CR-V motor too? They could both use a little extra performance.

allfiredup · September 2005

I thought I'd share a listing of updates for the '06 Element-

For the 2006 model year, Hondas versatile and fun-to-drive Element adds the EX-P trim level to its already distinct and diverse lineup. The new EX-P trim is based on the existing EX trim level and adds body-colored painted side panels and door handles. Since its launch in 2003, the Element has become the new benchmark for function and design in the light-truck arena. For 2005, the Element received Consumer Guides Recommended: Compact SUV distinction.

 2.4-liter i-VTEC 4-cylinder engine (156-horsepower @ 5500 rpm and 160 lb-ft. torque @ 4000 rpm)
 New EX-P trim level provides painted fender panels and door handles, available in 2WD or 4WD
 New alloy wheel added to EX 2WD/4WD trim level
 Steering audio controls added to EX 2WD/4WD trim level
 EX trim level exterior metallic cladding added to LX 2WD/4WD trim level
 ABS added to LX 2WD/4WD trim level
 New exterior colors added: Alabaster Silver, Proton Blue Metallic, Kiwi Metallic, Tango Red Pearl (EX-P only) and Tangerine Metallic (EX-P only)

ateixeira · September 2005

P for Paint, cute.

156hp, so it did not get the boost that the Accord got.

Those audio controls come in handy.

ABS on the LX, finally. This should be standard on the DX, too.

I want to see the Tangerine in person, bet that's a wild one.

-juice

allfiredup · September 2005

The DX model was dropped for the '05 model year (or at least very early in the model year). It's only LX and EX now. If you go to the Honda website, those are the only two choices.

ateixeira · September 2005

Oops, guess I didn't get the memo.

-juice

smoot1138 · September 2005

Yes, same here....I looked at Hondanews.com and here is a full update {as of yesterday}.

QUOTE:

Honda's Versatile and Fun-to-Drive Element adds a New Trim Level for 2006

2006ElementRelease.doc 24kTorrance, Calif. 09/20/2005 --
For the 2006 model year, the Honda Element freshens its lineup with the addition of a new trim level, the EX-P, to the existing EX and LX trims. All 2006 Elements include new features and added value across the lineup - including new interior and exterior additions to the EX and LX trim levels, standard ABS on all models and the addition of new exterior colors to the Element's already expansive palate.

The new EX-P trim level is built upon the existing EX trim with a few exterior enhancements. The EX-P trim additions include painted panels and door handles. The EX-P is available in both 2WD and 4WD, either with a standard 5-speed manual or available 4-speed automatic transmission. The EX-P is available in Alabaster Silver, Tango Red Pearl, Nighthawk Black Pearl, Atomic Blue Metallic, Kiwi Metallic and Tangerine Metallic.

The EX and LX trim levels have also received upgrades for the 2006 model year. The EX (and EX-P) adds steering wheel mounted audio controls and a new alloy wheel design, while the LX trim receives Anti-Lock Braking (ABS) with Electronic Brake Distribution (EBD) and metallic exterior cladding. New exterior colors for both trim levels are Alabaster Silver, Atomic Blue Metallic, and Rallye Red. Kiwi Metallic is also available on the LX.

Honda's 2.4-liter, i-VTEC, 4-cylinder engine with 156-horsepower and 160 lb.-ft. of torque provides excellent acceleration while maintaining fuel economy in the low- to mid-twenties. The i-VTEC system blends Honda's patented VTEC system with Variable Timing Control (VTC) to improve low rpm torque while expanding high rpm horsepower. Sixteen-inch wheels are standard on all models.

The Honda Element offers the most flexible package for any vehicle in its price range with a multi-functional cargo area, innovative and versatile seating, resilient and dirt-resistant interior, brisk performance and exceptional value.

*For the 2006 model year, all Honda horsepower and torque specifications have been updated to reflect revised Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) J1349 (Rev 8/04) net calculations that went into affect in January of 2005. These new calculations reflect a number of significant changes in the way horsepower and torque are measured and may cause SAE net horsepower and torque totals published in 2006 media materials to differ from the figures published in previous years. To avoid confusion, all 2006 Honda press materials will specify "SAE net (Rev 8/04") after all horsepower and torque figures to denote adherence to the new standards.

nowakj66 · September 2005

Great press release. Any photos of the new painted panel models? I have seen the little cartoonish drawing on the back of the 06 Accord Coupe brochure (orange EX-P) but I was hoping for something a little more real world.

mayos · September 2005

Does anyone have any info as to safety improvements for 2006, (mainly rear passenger side airbags, etc.), 2005 and before, the side impact crash results are dismal. Daughter loves the vehicle, however unless Honda has addressed this issue we will have to shop elsewhere.

allfiredup · September 2005

The '05 EX had side airbags standard. It also had ABS. For '06, the LX will also get the ABS, but I've seen no mention of side airbags for it. Hopefully with Honda's obvious move toward safety the LX will get them, too.

micweb · September 2005

There has been discussion that maybe the reason Honda is not incorporating side curtain airbags is because it is hard to mount them due to the design of the "suicide" doors. However, on many cars, including the New Beetle and my Focus ZX3, the side airbags include extensions to protect the head as well as the torso. Any idea why Honda is using this type of taller air bag? Obviously there is room in the seat for it.

ateixeira · September 2005

Dunno, it could come out from above, maybe?

-juice

mayos · September 2005

The '05 element does have side airbags, however only for the front passengers. It is the rear passenger dummies that have suffered unacceptable damage in past crash tests. I believe my daughters, along with their friends, deserve the same safety the driver and front passenger has. Thanks.

north1 · September 2005

I have been using 89 octane in my 04 EX but on a recent fill-up used the lower grade 87 octane and as a result have a significant "tin" sound at certain lower RPM's...not quite a knock as in my older pathfinder but nonetheless noticeable. Has anyone else experienced this problem....my concern I suppose would be if I am stuck buying the mid-grade gas from here on out.....thoughts?..THX

north14

ateixeira · September 2005

The knock sensor should capture that and send the data to the ECU, which in theory would dial back the timing a bit. I'd guess that within a tankfull or two, that tin sound should go away.

If not, I might ask the dealer to have a look, possibly reset the ECU so that it maps a new timing pattern, i.e. it re-learns the timing advance to use for your engine.

On my Miata, the timing is set manually, it was funny to adjust the dial to advance the timing and hear the engine ping, then stop pinging as I retarded the timing.

Mine would ping at about 18 degrees BTDC (before top dead center). Stock setting is 10 degrees. I left it at 14 degrees because you do gain some low-end torque by advancing it like that.

To set it to 18 degrees, I would actually have to use premium fuel. So I used 14.

Your ECU is supposed to adjust that automatically, especially since the engine is designed to run on regular, not premium or even plus.

-juice

garandman · September 2005

Who is buying Elements in the Northeast? 20 somethings, or all ages?

stever · September 2005

Good question. This article says that the Element's youngest buyers (nationwide) are around 43.

Metro Times Detroit

Steve, Host

allfiredup · September 2005

I've read in more than one article that the average age of the Element buyer is mid-40s. Around Atlanta, everyone I see driving them appears to be my age (30) or older.

I know they were aiming for younger buyers, but they made a heck of a vehicle that appeals to us practical, well-past-college folks. What would appeal even more to me- a performance version! Slip the TSX engine under the hood!

dweiser · September 2005

And I love it! I also have a 2006 Porsche 911 Carrera 4 (A-W-D) Cabriolet on order. Keeping the Element? You bet I am!

varmint · September 2005

That's a misprint, or misinterpretation. The "average" age of buyers for the Element is 43. That is not the "youngest age". From what I gather, the number 43 makes the Element second only to the less-expensive Civic (age 40) for youth appeal.

And contrary to the Metro article, This one from Wards puts the average Xb buyer at 42. Metro only gives us the average age for Scion as a brand.

All in all, the business of demographics seems a bit fuzzy. For example, the Metro article states that Toyota buyers average 47 years, supposedly, higher than Honda, VW, and Nissan. Yet, other sources put Honda's average age at 50. Furthermore, the figures are for car "buyers", not necessarily the people who are the primary drivers. Given that Elements are more expensive than Scions and Civics, it seems pretty obvious that younger buyers are going to be more likely to use mom and dad as a bank. So, I don't put much faith in these demographics.

stever · September 2005

So what you're telling me is that guys my age (52) and kids in their 20's really like the Element. The 40 somethings don't buy them at all, LOL.

The new Civic looks pretty fun to drive too, btw.

Steve, Host

varmint · September 2005

:confuse: You lost me, Steve...

ateixeira · September 2005

Keep in mind that's home turf for the Big 2.5, they're likely to put a negative spin on anything import-related.

To put it into perspective, just imagine what Metro Times Nippon might have to say about an Aztek.

-juice

hbhawaii · September 2005

I highly recommend Big Island Honda in Kona, if you're thinking of trying other dealers. My experience there was spectacular! Also, they are a Costco dealer, so if you're a Costco member, you should get a great deal. Costs about $300 to ship the car inter-island, I think.

Howard

garandman · September 2005

Went to see an Element today at the dealer where we bought an Accord. I fit well in the seats, like the interior volume, etc. The only differences between the DX and EX the salesperson could specify were alloy wheels and sound system, which seemed steep for $1,200.

But we have three kids and the salesperson said the front airbag cannot be switched off? Our Chevy van has a key switch on the dash, so I thought that was a common feature.

Also looked at a Mazda5 briefly. Not directly competitive, but a neat vehicle.

varmint · September 2005

Nah, I don't think it's a matter of bias. Metro is probably just using the figures given to them by the Toyota/Scion press staff. Just like the Ward's article was citing a Honda exec for one of their figures.

I think it's a matter of how you count heads. Mom (age 50) might be signing the loan papers for Johnny (age 19), and thus the buyer is counted as a 50 year-old. Or, they might include co-signers. Or they might rely on a post sales survey to get their numbers. Depending on which set of numbers you use, you'd get a completely different picture.

varmint · September 2005

I also looked at the Mazda5 (curiosity). It's very nice, but kinda disappointing in the fuel economy area. 22-27 is possible with vehicles like the CR-V or a Mazda6 wagon. As a van-style body, I would have expected better from the Mazda5. Otherwise, it's very nice.

Anyway, you might try the CR-V. Same basic vehicle, but it has three seats across the 2nd row. It's not as funky, but you can always customize it.

Another one to look at would be the Chevy HHR. Personally, I think the concept is silly, but it's been getting good reviews.

allfiredup · September 2005

The EX adds the significantly upgraded stereo system, alloy wheels, keyless entry as well as ABS and side impact airbags. The EX also has what they call Occupant Position Detection System for the airbag on the passenger side.

Just in case you haven't seen the previous posts, the LX adds ABS for '06. There will also be an EX-P model with painted body panels.

You mention the Mazda5. I've seen a few at the Mazda dealer and they look pretty nice. I'm car shopping right now and the Mazda3 5-door is on my list as well as the Element.

nowakj66 · September 2005

If you need room for 5 and like the Element's design, you might try a Scion Xb or Subaru Forester. Both seat 5. The Forester has AWD like the Element. The Scion xB shares a roomy backseat with the E with one difference - it seats 3 across instead of 2.

dweiser · September 2005

Sorry but the Forester has full-time AWD and the Element is basically FWD until it detects slippage then it sends some % of power to the rear wheels. That may not sound like a big difference but I believe it to be.

Honda Element

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