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Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

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Comments

  • scotianscotian Member Posts: 1,064
    Perhaps what Kinley meant is that the left turner has to wait for the opposing car to go by before the turn is taken.

    As far as I know, when all four directions are filled with cars, the traffic alternates between N/S, E/W, N/S, E/W, etc. When someone wants to turn left, they don't just turn left, they wait until they can, and the other two lanes cannot do anything until the intersection is pretty much cleared. This would seem to be the most efficient way for this to work.

    Someone once told me that the traffic goes N, E, S, W, N, etc., that if, for example, E goes straight, the W wanting to go straight has to wait until after N is done. But this is a stupid and inefficient way to move traffic through the intersection.
  • tboner1965tboner1965 Member Posts: 647
    Then you always have the right of way 8^)

    It is much easier to merge, get through 4 way stops and such, if people think you might not have insurance 8^)

    TB
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    OK, let's go through this again. Maybe somebody will understand: I'm at a stop sign, turning left. I yield to the driver going straight. Then, it's *MY TURN* to turn left, but the moron behind the first guy going straight across me decides to follow the first guy through the stop sign, and acts like *I'm* the @$$hole cutting *Him* off. Uh, no.

    If I'm to believe Kinley (who by his own admission is a chronic LLC), then I should sit at the stop sign all day, waiting for all persons travelling straight to procede. I, as the unfortunate driver so inconsiderate as to want to make a left turn, must wait forever.
  • dpwestlakedpwestlake Member Posts: 207
    Where are you located? I work in Manchester and live in in Mansfield.
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    Please refrain from goading the logic-impaired...
  • pbhattipbhatti Member Posts: 87
    I live in Vernon, goto college @ Storrs and work in NY on weekends
  • scotianscotian Member Posts: 1,064
    Don't worry, we understand.

    In your scenario, you are right to be pissed off at the guy who follows the first -- assuming that both you and the first guy drove forward into the intersection at the same time, you going slower of course since you are waiting for the first guy to pass you. Then you complete your turn, unhindered by the second guy.

    However, if you aren't in the middle of the intersection when the first guy drives out of it (and your post didn't specifically state whether or not this was the case), then the second guy has every reason in the world to believe that you, acting passive, will sit there all day, so he moves forward. Of course, as you pointed out, if he never actually stopped at the stop sign, he would be wrong to continue into the intersection no matter what you were doing.

    Kinley may have been misinterpreting the scenario you described, but nothing he said implied that anyone should sit at a four-way stop all day long.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    Sorry.. cant help it sometimes :)
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    ....this isn't worth it. Re-read Kinley's post #143 and the replying post #146 and tell me what you think they meant.

    I was half way through my left turn when the woman in the car almost t-boned me. It was my turn, I waited through the last guy while stopped. My point was (and is being reaffirmed with every post I read), most people don't even know who has the right of way. As long as they've come to a stop, according to them, it's their turn.
  • kinleykinley Member Posts: 854
    Rotation does apply at a 4 way stop and it begins by yielding to the person on the right. If both North and South are going straight, they can both go at the same time, but the left turner is to yield to the oncoming traffic, all day if necessary. Brentwood, stay in therapy.
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs17thru20.htm#othervehicles

    If you scroll down a bit, it talks about LLC being illegal as well.
  • scotianscotian Member Posts: 1,064
    Kinley: Whether or not it was a four-way stop intersection, it is clear there was a stop sign for the opposing traffic as well. Your comment, "the left turner is to yield to the oncoming traffic, all day if necessary," in the context of the described situation proves beyond doubt that you have no idea how things are supposed to work on the road.

    ghulet: Assuming your comment was directed at me, what do I supposedly not know about who has the right of way?
  • innovationsinnovations Member Posts: 69
    4-way stop instructions are fairly straight-forward.

    Junctions with a stop sign and a sign saying 4 WAY (or 3 WAY or ALL WAY) require all traffic to come to a complete stop when reaching the intersection. Vehicles then take turns to proceed through the junction in the order in which they reached the intersection. If 2 or more cars reach the intersection at the same time the one to your right goes first. If 2 cars reach the intersection at the same time from opposite directions both may proceed at the *same time unless one is turning left. The car turning left waits on the car not turning.

    *It's sometimes better to wait that extra second just in case a turn signal is not working.
  • scotianscotian Member Posts: 1,064
    Can the car wanting to turn left legally enter the intersection at the same time the opposing car does, waiting until the opposing car clears at least half of the intersection before completing its left turn?
  • a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Member Posts: 518
    OK, I'll jump in here. From what I gather after reading ghulet's post, this is not a four-way or all-way stop that we're dealing with here. It's a four-way intersection where one road is a thru road with no stop signs, and the cross street has a stop sign on either side.

    Thus, ghulet comes up to one of these stop signs. He stops, signals left, waits for the thru road to clear. There is also a line of cars waiting at the other stop sign opposite him. The front car over there wants to go straight across. When the thru road clears, ghulet waits and lets that guy go straight.

    Then the next car in line on the other side ALSO wants to go straight. The thru road is still clear. The question here is, can ghulet make his left because he let one guy go from the other side? Or can all the "straight" cars coming from the other side go first, because he's turning left? I don't know the answer to this question, but at least I know the question :-)

    -Andrew L
  • a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Member Posts: 518
    Oh, and now for some additional stop sign madness. Where I live in NJ, there is a 2-lane 40 mph road that I often drive on. At one point, a smaller road meets it in a T-intersection. The smaller road has a stop sign, the larger one has none. So I was driving down the larger road one day, a good distance from the intersection. A guy in a Buick Century pulls out of the smaller street and turns left in front of me. This was OK, as he had just enough time to make it across. However, some buffoon in a 15-passenger Ford E350 decides that if the Century can turn left, he can just go ahead and do so too, without bothering to look and see if the thru road is still clear. So he pulls out right in front of me, realizes his mistake and - get ready for this - stops. So now I'm going 40 mph and there's a big piece of Econoline blocking my lane. Fortunately I was able to bring my car to a halt in an entertaining (for those not inside my car) Dukes of Hazzard style skid/spin. They've since replaced that stop sign with a traffic light :-)

    -Andrew L
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I re-read ghulet's post, and he never mentioned that he was at a 4-way stop sign when he described the situation he was in. Kinley's remark wasn't about 4-way stop signs, he thought gulet was talking about a 2-way stop sign, as did I.

    Ok, back to the stop sign debate.
  • davv62davv62 Member Posts: 76
    I live down on the coast in Fairfield. This part of the state has terrible traffic problems, and I take the train to work in NY. But I go up to Vermont or New Hampshire a couple of times a year, and sometimes I fly out of Bradley International, so I sometimes have occasion to drive up I-91 or I-84. Otherwise I drive on the Merritt Parkway, the Wilbur Cross Parkway or I-95. I-95 is great driving as long as it's about 6 o'clock on a Saturday morning.

    Isn't Mansfield where UConn is? Do you ever to get take in some basketball games?

    -Dave
  • scotianscotian Member Posts: 1,064
    ghulet was right to make his left, and the moron who tried to T-bone him was wrong.
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    My comments weren't directed at anyone in particular. I do find it strange that it isn't crystal clear to everyone that drivers must wait their turn at a four-way stop sign (which is what I was referring to originally, in post #140). That is, even if I'm turning left in front of someone going straight, if I stopped first, it is in fact my turn. The only time I would have to yield is if the driver going straight arrived before or at the same time as me (turning left). If I arrived first, it's my turn. Simple.
  • a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Member Posts: 518
    ghulet-

    Oh, ok. You were talking about a four-way stop then. I hadn't realized that was what you meant. For the record, before I came to PA for college, I had never seen a four-way stop. Where I'm from in northern NJ, they're all either stop signs going only in certain directions, or traffic lights.

    -Andrew L
  • scotianscotian Member Posts: 1,064
    I have more trouble with overly-passive people than overly aggressive people at four-way stops. You know, the kind of timid sheep that are too frightened to be assertive at all. I even have to wave people through.
  • pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    You are correct in your interpretation of 4 way stop sign protocol.
    Kinley's concept of a left turning driver "waiting all day if necessary " is repugnant to reason.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Actually happens when there *isn't* a Stop sign.
  • pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    Any intersection so congested that one would have to wait all day to make a left turn would have a stop light if not a 4 way stop sign. If you ever noticed, some intersections maintain the stop signs after the light has been installed.
  • pjyoungpjyoung Member Posts: 885
    After waiting half a day, many will adopt the attitude of pulling into the lane, blocking it, justifying their move by NOT making eye contact with any other driver. It seems that if they don't establish eye contact, then they really aren't in the middle of the intersection blocking a lane.
  • dpwestlakedpwestlake Member Posts: 207
    No, tickets to UCONN games are pretty hard to come by. The games do cause traffic problems though, sometimes there is a line on I84 to get off at exit 68.

    the roads leading to UCONN are all secondary roads and 195, 44 & 6 get jammed up whenever there's a game or when the students return from vacations.
  • pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    The worst city to drive in is Boston. Their rules are very simple. 1) drive like you are the only car on the road; 2) never make eye contact.
  • daysailerdaysailer Member Posts: 720
    I learned that avoiding eye contact is rule #1. Without eye contact, the other driver cannot be sure that you have seen him/her and is less likely to risk a bullish maneuver (otherwise known as normal driving in that locale). Once eye contact is made, the encounter is lost.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    The people who design the roads in NJ are extremely cynical. We have circles that are literally suicidal to drive through, 2 lanes that merge into 1 with only 10 or 20 feet to go, etc.

    As for streets being so busy that it would need a stop sign or a traffic, they have center lanes! Imagine trying to make a left when there are TWO lanes coming at you at speeds of 50 mph and up.
  • davv62davv62 Member Posts: 76
    One type of driver that I find very annoying is the type that hesitates at a green light, then goes through it just before it turns red, leaving the car behind them to sit at the red light.

    This morning, I had a car in front of me and I was approaching a light that stays green for a short time and red for a long time. I was late for my train. The car hesitated for no apparent reason (nobody else was coming in either direction) and then went through the light just as it was changing. I followed right behind the car and the light turned red just as I was under it. Midway through the intersection, when it was too late to stop or go back, I saw a cop. Luckily, he didn't bother me.

    Overly passive and hesitant drivers can be just as problematic as overly aggressive drivers.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I can't stand people who can't tell the difference when you're at an intersection that crosses more like an X diagram than a cross with straight lines.

    They'll sit there, confused, trying to figure out which light is theirs and which is the other, regardless of such obvious clues as 1)the opposite direction lane drivers have already driven through the intersection, 2)all cars at the intersecting street are still stopped, 3)cars behind them are honking, and 4) if they just slanted their head (instead of trying to stare directly at the traffic lights), they could actually differentiate between the two.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    My boss was nailed on I295 in NJ (near Trenton) on the way to work today. The inconsiderate drivers? The state police. The road is 3 lanes wide, and they set up a rolling road block in the left 2 lanes, using non-cop cars (an old Acura and a buick). They just ran side-by-side at 65 (the speed limit on that stretch). Boss follweed them a while, and finally moved from the left lane, over to the right lane (of 3) and passed them, then moved back over.

    Of course, just down the road the chase car nailed him. The truly inconsiderate part? They added reckless driving to the speeding part, because he moved over 2 lanes to pass (he did signal). Seems it is OK to LLC, but changing lanes is reckless? Wonder how long you have to stay in the middle lane for it to count (3 second rule?)

    With all the idiocy you see on the highways around here, this stunt was certainly dangerous at the least. Plus they copped an attitude about his "recklessness"

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    side by side at 65mph and your boss did indeed pass them, he is technically speeding.

    One time I almost got a ticket for "tailgating" since it's the law that for every 10 miles you're driving, you have to be 1 car length behind the car in front of you. So technically, if you're doing 40, you gotta be 4 car lengths behind the car in front of you! Yeah, as if I see that getting obeyed by even the cops.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    True, and the chase cop was quick to point that out. He wasn't arguing about that (since he ws speeding), but the reckless add-on is what steamed his clams. That, and for sensing something was wrong, and not holding back.

    If you spend much time on NJ highways, only those 2 cops and a 90 year old women with cataracts drving a '62 Caddy (the lady, not the cataracts)were the only ones not speeding. If they want to stop people for doing 75, it is like shooting fish in a barrel. They don't have to create a traffic hazard to do it.

    The budget deficit in NJ must be worse than I thought. Must be a revenue measure.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Official speed limit is 65, but people zoom by at 80+ mph on the left lanes!
  • ranaldranald Member Posts: 147
    Heh, in my Jersey driving experience, *not* tailgating is dangerous. If you try to leave what most sane folks would consider a "safe" distance between yourself and the car in front on you, people will cause pileups in their haste to cut in front on you. :)

    Tailgating is a necessary self-defense mechanism, so the merging-challenged (which means everyone, in NJ) aren't misled into thinking they can fit -and expecting that they might *match speeds* when they cut in front is purely ridiculous.
  • a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Member Posts: 518
    stickguy-

    Last time I drove home from college (PA to NJ), I noticed that one of the towns somewhere in the vicinity of Lambertville had come up with an interesting solution to slow people down. They had parked several police cars on the median with dummies in the drivers' seats. It was actually a really funny thing to see; the dummies had police hats on and everything. They must be short-staffed :-)

    -Andrew L
  • pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    Doesn't NJ have "jug handles" to make left hand turns. Is it NJ or MA that calls circles "round-a-bouts". I get so confused.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    IN Massachusettes they call it a rotary, here in NY we call it a traffic circle.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • ranaldranald Member Posts: 147
    I've seen "jug handle" left turns both in MA and NJ, but they seem to be relatively rare and only done out of desperation, where a normal left turn simply cannot be made. (Rt 17 in NJ, Rt 9 in MA)

    Oh, and the term "round-a-bout" is an English thing. Nobody calls it that here.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Are only seen in areas where the speed limits are usually 45-55 mph, and of course people will drive 10 miles faster than the posted speed limit. On 65mph highways, they're very rare, practically non-existent. If the speed limit is less than 40 on a relatively busy multi-lane roadway, they have those horrible center lanes.
    Their reasoning is that those roads aren't busy (which is partially true) up until rush hour, so the cost of building a jug handle (which would also require a traffic light) outweighs its usefulness.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    I live near Phila. in south Jersey, and jug handles are quite popular here. You just have to be careful giving directions to out of towners.

    They are also in the process of getting rid of traffic circles. I personally think they are fun (but that certainly puts me in the minority), and are actually pretty efficient when traffic is moderate. Better than sitting at a light when no cars are coming.

    Hard to be incosiderate in a circle, since I think the official law is that there are no rules, although you can usuallly figure out the logical flow of who has the ROW

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • mstsscmstssc Member Posts: 89
    Traffic circles (round abouts) are quite efficient if traffic is moderate and more or less equal from all directions. They are also the only real way (i think) of connecting more than 4 roads with a single intersection.

    There are some rules here such as the car in the circle has the ROW, get to the inside if you are travelling more than 1 exit.

    Have driven them in a number of countries in Europe including on the left hand side. Some really are a free for all.
  • rbrenton88rbrenton88 Member Posts: 186
    I drive to work down 295 toward your neck of the woods. I noticed they are out in force the last few days. Must be the old end-of-the-month effect for the troopers.
    Usually they pick the same old hiding spots, but theis week they've been getting creative. Almost got me twice.
  • pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    Some of the traffic circles in the District of Columbia have traffic lights on them. I am sure Dupont Circle has stop lights. Some other circles have under passes for through traffic on major roads.
    DC has the most traffic circles of any U.S. city. It was designed by L'Enfant. The theory was that artillery pieces could be positioned on the circles and fire down the streets denying an invader an easy time of moving about. Now, they just deny easy access to motorists.
    BTW I know that some place I have driven called circles round a bouts. I have never driven in England. I think it may have been Colorado.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I just thought I'd share with you all the sheer joy I've experienced being a New Yorker in the past hour. First I brought my lunch in from home and while cutting it so it microwaves better, I spilled it all over the floor (now my cube smells like cold chicken and rice even after I cleaned it up). So in order to get lunch, I had to go to the Bank (Chase Manhattan 23rd & 6th). While crossing 23rd street, I was grazed by a cab who couldn't stop soon enough. I landed on my knuckle and bruised it. The guy didn't even stop! Then after I got up, I went to the bank. While crossing back over 23rd street, a delivery guy runs into me & knocks me over...What a SALTY DAY I'm having!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • crkeehncrkeehn Member Posts: 513
    The underpasses on the traffic circles were actually for the streetcars. When the streetcars were retired, they were converted to traffic lanes.

    I have noticed on Rte 100 in Maryland that some of the exit ramps are going to traffic circles now. Rte 29 in Howard County is in the process of being converted to limited access, the new ramp at Johns Hopkins Rd is also featuring a traffic circle. Apparently they are making a comeback
  • pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    I would have taken the cab to a Deli on 43rd street, and had a pastrami on rye with a couple half done pickles. I would have done some window shopping at the camera stores, and taken a cab back. I would have told my boss that I was giving a bus load of visiting Uzbeckistanies directions to the Staten Island Ferry
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    2nd Avenue Deli

    There IS no substitute! :)
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