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Comments
As far as I know, when all four directions are filled with cars, the traffic alternates between N/S, E/W, N/S, E/W, etc. When someone wants to turn left, they don't just turn left, they wait until they can, and the other two lanes cannot do anything until the intersection is pretty much cleared. This would seem to be the most efficient way for this to work.
Someone once told me that the traffic goes N, E, S, W, N, etc., that if, for example, E goes straight, the W wanting to go straight has to wait until after N is done. But this is a stupid and inefficient way to move traffic through the intersection.
It is much easier to merge, get through 4 way stops and such, if people think you might not have insurance 8^)
TB
If I'm to believe Kinley (who by his own admission is a chronic LLC), then I should sit at the stop sign all day, waiting for all persons travelling straight to procede. I, as the unfortunate driver so inconsiderate as to want to make a left turn, must wait forever.
In your scenario, you are right to be pissed off at the guy who follows the first -- assuming that both you and the first guy drove forward into the intersection at the same time, you going slower of course since you are waiting for the first guy to pass you. Then you complete your turn, unhindered by the second guy.
However, if you aren't in the middle of the intersection when the first guy drives out of it (and your post didn't specifically state whether or not this was the case), then the second guy has every reason in the world to believe that you, acting passive, will sit there all day, so he moves forward. Of course, as you pointed out, if he never actually stopped at the stop sign, he would be wrong to continue into the intersection no matter what you were doing.
Kinley may have been misinterpreting the scenario you described, but nothing he said implied that anyone should sit at a four-way stop all day long.
I was half way through my left turn when the woman in the car almost t-boned me. It was my turn, I waited through the last guy while stopped. My point was (and is being reaffirmed with every post I read), most people don't even know who has the right of way. As long as they've come to a stop, according to them, it's their turn.
If you scroll down a bit, it talks about LLC being illegal as well.
ghulet: Assuming your comment was directed at me, what do I supposedly not know about who has the right of way?
Junctions with a stop sign and a sign saying 4 WAY (or 3 WAY or ALL WAY) require all traffic to come to a complete stop when reaching the intersection. Vehicles then take turns to proceed through the junction in the order in which they reached the intersection. If 2 or more cars reach the intersection at the same time the one to your right goes first. If 2 cars reach the intersection at the same time from opposite directions both may proceed at the *same time unless one is turning left. The car turning left waits on the car not turning.
*It's sometimes better to wait that extra second just in case a turn signal is not working.
Thus, ghulet comes up to one of these stop signs. He stops, signals left, waits for the thru road to clear. There is also a line of cars waiting at the other stop sign opposite him. The front car over there wants to go straight across. When the thru road clears, ghulet waits and lets that guy go straight.
Then the next car in line on the other side ALSO wants to go straight. The thru road is still clear. The question here is, can ghulet make his left because he let one guy go from the other side? Or can all the "straight" cars coming from the other side go first, because he's turning left? I don't know the answer to this question, but at least I know the question :-)
-Andrew L
-Andrew L
Ok, back to the stop sign debate.
Isn't Mansfield where UConn is? Do you ever to get take in some basketball games?
-Dave
Oh, ok. You were talking about a four-way stop then. I hadn't realized that was what you meant. For the record, before I came to PA for college, I had never seen a four-way stop. Where I'm from in northern NJ, they're all either stop signs going only in certain directions, or traffic lights.
-Andrew L
Kinley's concept of a left turning driver "waiting all day if necessary " is repugnant to reason.
the roads leading to UCONN are all secondary roads and 195, 44 & 6 get jammed up whenever there's a game or when the students return from vacations.
As for streets being so busy that it would need a stop sign or a traffic, they have center lanes! Imagine trying to make a left when there are TWO lanes coming at you at speeds of 50 mph and up.
This morning, I had a car in front of me and I was approaching a light that stays green for a short time and red for a long time. I was late for my train. The car hesitated for no apparent reason (nobody else was coming in either direction) and then went through the light just as it was changing. I followed right behind the car and the light turned red just as I was under it. Midway through the intersection, when it was too late to stop or go back, I saw a cop. Luckily, he didn't bother me.
Overly passive and hesitant drivers can be just as problematic as overly aggressive drivers.
They'll sit there, confused, trying to figure out which light is theirs and which is the other, regardless of such obvious clues as 1)the opposite direction lane drivers have already driven through the intersection, 2)all cars at the intersecting street are still stopped, 3)cars behind them are honking, and 4) if they just slanted their head (instead of trying to stare directly at the traffic lights), they could actually differentiate between the two.
Of course, just down the road the chase car nailed him. The truly inconsiderate part? They added reckless driving to the speeding part, because he moved over 2 lanes to pass (he did signal). Seems it is OK to LLC, but changing lanes is reckless? Wonder how long you have to stay in the middle lane for it to count (3 second rule?)
With all the idiocy you see on the highways around here, this stunt was certainly dangerous at the least. Plus they copped an attitude about his "recklessness"
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
One time I almost got a ticket for "tailgating" since it's the law that for every 10 miles you're driving, you have to be 1 car length behind the car in front of you. So technically, if you're doing 40, you gotta be 4 car lengths behind the car in front of you! Yeah, as if I see that getting obeyed by even the cops.
If you spend much time on NJ highways, only those 2 cops and a 90 year old women with cataracts drving a '62 Caddy (the lady, not the cataracts)were the only ones not speeding. If they want to stop people for doing 75, it is like shooting fish in a barrel. They don't have to create a traffic hazard to do it.
The budget deficit in NJ must be worse than I thought. Must be a revenue measure.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Tailgating is a necessary self-defense mechanism, so the merging-challenged (which means everyone, in NJ) aren't misled into thinking they can fit -and expecting that they might *match speeds* when they cut in front is purely ridiculous.
Last time I drove home from college (PA to NJ), I noticed that one of the towns somewhere in the vicinity of Lambertville had come up with an interesting solution to slow people down. They had parked several police cars on the median with dummies in the drivers' seats. It was actually a really funny thing to see; the dummies had police hats on and everything. They must be short-staffed :-)
-Andrew L
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Oh, and the term "round-a-bout" is an English thing. Nobody calls it that here.
Their reasoning is that those roads aren't busy (which is partially true) up until rush hour, so the cost of building a jug handle (which would also require a traffic light) outweighs its usefulness.
They are also in the process of getting rid of traffic circles. I personally think they are fun (but that certainly puts me in the minority), and are actually pretty efficient when traffic is moderate. Better than sitting at a light when no cars are coming.
Hard to be incosiderate in a circle, since I think the official law is that there are no rules, although you can usuallly figure out the logical flow of who has the ROW
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
There are some rules here such as the car in the circle has the ROW, get to the inside if you are travelling more than 1 exit.
Have driven them in a number of countries in Europe including on the left hand side. Some really are a free for all.
Usually they pick the same old hiding spots, but theis week they've been getting creative. Almost got me twice.
DC has the most traffic circles of any U.S. city. It was designed by L'Enfant. The theory was that artillery pieces could be positioned on the circles and fire down the streets denying an invader an easy time of moving about. Now, they just deny easy access to motorists.
BTW I know that some place I have driven called circles round a bouts. I have never driven in England. I think it may have been Colorado.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I have noticed on Rte 100 in Maryland that some of the exit ramps are going to traffic circles now. Rte 29 in Howard County is in the process of being converted to limited access, the new ramp at Johns Hopkins Rd is also featuring a traffic circle. Apparently they are making a comeback
There IS no substitute!