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Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,254
    Indeed, plan exits ahead. I always start to get over after the exit prior to where I want to go.

    The proliferation of dash cams will eventually make some cases easier.

    People merging at proper speed is also a fun topic. They NEVER do it here. The "Seattle merge" is a Subaru, RX, or Prius entering a 55-60mph traffic stream at 40.
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla VirginiaPosts: 707
    That fast?

    Here in the Baltimore-Washington Metropolitan Axis... some people merge onto the highways at 30 mph.

    And those numbnuts get upset if you are far enough behind them to gun the engine and merge onto the highway at 55-60 mph... because you catapult yourself past their car and leave them in the dust before they even parse the concept of merging.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,254
    Well, on a downhill half mile long entrance ramp. There's also the "Bellevue merge", which means a high end SUV and stereotypical driver, going 35 while distracted.

    Speed differential drama can be fun. I still remember a dope in a Kia getting upset at me because I was pressuring him (varying following distances, gesturing him to get going) on an on ramp when I was in my old car. As the road widened and I shot past (no mean feat in that car), he started yelling and waving his hands. Note to Kiadiot, if a 50 year old MB is being held up by your mentally defective merging style, you're going too slow. Stick to side roads and let actual motorists be on their way.

    For inconsiderates, saw a few today - phone yappers, a woman pull out of a driveway onto a major street where she wanted a left turn lane, but it was full - so she just blocked the road perpendicularly until it cleared. And an M3 that both didn't signal a turn and then floored it once turned. Stereotypes reign supreme.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,254
    Got to honk about 5 times today - I felt like I was on candid camera. On 30-40mph arterial streets, someone in front of me would just randomly stop, as if lost and in a panic. But their local plates and frames betrayed this idea (I think I am relatively nice and will give a rental car or out of state car some leeway). Twice, a stooge just stopped in the middle of the intersection for no apparent reason, as if discussing the route with a passenger. The sun/heat here is baking their little empty minds. Honked once at someone who was too timid to pull out of a commercial driveway - I did this after the car behind me honked, then she slowly pulled out, as there finally were no cars in the entire line of sight. A dearth of turn signals out there today too, but that's normal anymore.

    Also have ran (stop and go) at 3 stuck lights in the past 2 days, and saw someone else (rented Fusion) do the same. Oh those "servants", doing so much for good.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,254
    Another hot day here, and the sun is baking the brains of local "drivers". While test driving a car, got behind a woman in a Pilot merging at 40-45 into a free-flowing 60mph road where most were speeding a little. She had her hands at an 11-and-1 death grip, staring straight ahead. Another one who should stick to surface streets. While out on a winding road, encountered a Saturn making a multi-point U-turn - at the apex of a sharp blind curve. Held several cars up as the "driver" made up their mind. Many others would brake for any kind of turn in the road, or signal for a turn in the road - not a turn onto another street. And slowpokes abounded - got behind an old man in a conversion van going 18/22 in a 30, and was stuck behind a Ford Edge going ~22 in a 30, had maybe 15 cars stacked up behind it by the time it finally turned. And with the heat, the local Harley crowd has decided all they need for protection is a brain bucket helmet - have fun with that.
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla VirginiaPosts: 707
    I drive to work on a daily basis on a 4-lane (2 each way) highway.

    Today, there was a Prius in the passing lane... right next to a semi. Both going 50 mph. On a road posted at 65mph.

    I was behind the Prius and could see that the lady driving was constantly glancing over at the semi, terrified of it. Yet she would not pass. I even flashed my lights to signal that she ought to *PASS* in the passing lane. Twice.

    Only when I laid onto my horn did she accelerate, complete the pass, and get over.

    [email protected]#n left-lane campers.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    She should take lessons from LA cabbies - I had 5 cab rides in LA last week and every one was in a Prius (two "C"s and three "originals").

    Good drivers all but none were timid about flooring their cabs or cutting into holes in traffic.

    I did notice that most of them camped out in the left lanes most of the time.
  • billy3554billy3554 Posts: 148
    More likely, nine-nine percent of those LLCs smiled as they achieved what they wanted. An acknowledgment.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,254
    Drove about 100 miles today, mostly on highways, usually with some traffic density. Within 2 minutes of my drive, saw a red CA plated SL63 on 405 that I thought might be going 80 - flow of traffic was 60-65 (fast for 405, even when posted at 60) and was weaving in and out. And then it just took off, within a couple minutes it was out of my line of sight. Time for wealth based fines, speed enforcement is supposed to be a deterrent, right?

    On I5 in Seattle, saw a woman in an old Town Car going maybe 75 in a 55-60 flow, weaving around, no signals of course, with a bumper sticker that read something like "Feminism means women are people too" or some such PC nonsense. Then at a random moment, she almost literally gets out of her seat and starts rummaging around in the car, while flying down the road. She was weaving all over, and I thought/hoped might lose it. She eventually got into the far right lane and slowed down :confuse:

    Then came the LLCs. A number of them - most memorable was a smug greybeard in a first gen Prius going maybe 50 in a 60, left lane, while enjoying his mug of coffee, cars flying past on the right, not a care in the world.
  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyPosts: 9,036
    I had a relentless LLC last night on the way home from a party. Two people at 10 under in the right lane and then a joker in the left at 5 under. Even my wife said "cant you get around these idiots". 300 HP helps sometimes :blush:

    2017 Buick Enclave / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,254
    Hey, at least he was moving faster than the right lane (but I bet he slowed when he got alongside them - they always do, too timid to pass and make their own lane change).

    I passed on the right about a hundred times yesterday.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,028
    edited July 2013
    I was in the passenger seat to witness an old guy in a current modern model Sonata going 25-30 on a freeway exchange ramp designed to take a double decker bus at 40-45, a Toyota at 45-50, and that Sonata he was driving I'm sure could handle 40 for even the slowest poker around.

    By the time he finished the merge there were 15 cars stacked up behind him, at the time, traffic was light and when the ramp started we were the ONLY car behind them.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,254
    Less traffic today, the dumb lights even seemed less dumber - but still tons of phone yappers, in downtown Bellevue seemed like every third car at the very least. No enforcement, of course.

    Also saw a kid in a late model Maserati coupe weaving around without signals and going a bit faster than the traffic flow - time to start taxing trust funds at 98%.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,425
    time to start taxing trust funds at 98%.

    That'l never happen & it shouldn't. It's not a sin to be "with money" and how it is obtained is of no concern to others. Be happy for those who are enriched by whatever means. Thankfully, all of us have the equal chance to become well to do. Choices and decisions determine our future. :)
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,254
    edited July 2013
    "It's not a sin to be "with money""

    I see you graduated from strawman university.

    Actually, how money is obtained is of concern to everyone, especially in this age of sinister investor visas and crooked FIRE industry types who are doing their darndest to derail the present and stunt the future in the name of unsustainable immediate gains for a few. The gaping socio-economic chasm speaks volumes. Please study history to see how it always ends.

    Where and to who you are born determines more than anything, and please don't forget it :) It worked that way back in the less competitive days (these people are often LLCs) that enabled some experienced people who couldn't hack it today to succeed, and it works that way now.

    Time to start taxing it at 98%, time for wealth based traffic fines (if fines are supposed to be a deterrent, this cannot be debated), time to start questioning those who are afraid to have information known.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    Given the choice, I'd rather be a graduate of Strawman University than Bitterness College (summa [non-permissible content removed] laude in the Intolerance major).

    While we're at it, let's start taxing people based on the cars they drive. For example, each luxury car like a Mercedes gets taxed $10,000 a year. Someone with a Kia... they get a rebate. :)
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,254
    edited July 2013
    Tolerance, yes, that's a good one. There are a few high ranking graduates here from the sister schools of Strawman and Red Herring :shades:

    Luxury car? You mean a diesel sedan with a vinyl interior? :shades:

    And there was actually a luxury tax on higher end cars, killed off during the previous economic experiment. Now, lessees can deduct their payments as a "business expense" (ha), in our endless blind hope for things to trickle down. I wonder how many BMWs I see flitting around without turn signals are accounted for that way.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Money is a resource to my mind, and just because someone wins the genetic lottery, I don't see why I have to stand by and watch them waste it away without SOME comment. I mean, is it intolerant to watch someone leave their garden hose on all day 'because dad's paying the utilities'?

    In the same vein, I confess to finding it very hard to watch someone thoroughly incompetent driving a $150,000 sports car like it was a bread truck.

    So really it's not the 'thing' with me, it's how they use it that brings out my judgmental tendencies.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    There's a saying: "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

    Which is good I think for anyone who is not perfect to keep in mind.

    I find it fascinating how some here can judge someone regarding their use of money because they happen to observe them driving for a few seconds. Hard to know "the full story" in that case, no?

    Personally I have a hard time relating to someone driving a $150,000 anything, let alone driving it like a bread truck. But then, they don't point fingers at me regarding how I spend my money, nor should they--especially not based on watching me drive down the road for a few seconds.

    :)
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    edited July 2013
    Actually, how money is obtained is of concern to everyone

    Actually, on this board, it MIGHT be of concern only if the one involved was an inconsiderate driver. But, how would one know the details about that driver?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    We aren't "judging" them. We have no power to punish them with our opinions.

    I have always felt that morons behind the wheel will eventually punish themselves--they don't need me. I'm just enjoying the show in the background.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    We aren't "judging" them.

    Sure you, and others, are. At least be honest about it.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,425
    Perhaps not judging or thinking badly about them, but discerning what you observe does not include a punishment in the process. One can be aware, with his values, without being a punitive judge.

    Stick to the speed limit.
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla VirginiaPosts: 707
    When a rich idiot fritters his money away, that's a good thing. For he spends it on stuff. Stuff that *OTHERS* charge for.

    Meaning other, less stupid people, earn a living thanks to that moron.

    As for the poor driving of an uber-exotic by a rich moron... well, he'll soon be buying a new uber-exotic (after wrecking the old one). Which means that the workers of the auto company get paid.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,254
    edited July 2013
    Actually, it can be of concern anytime one wants it to be, especially when on a public road. If I see it, I can ponder it.

    Educated guesses, my friend ;)

    I could be wrong, but chances are, I'm not.

    On the thread topic, I drove back and forth to my grandma's today (detailed her car, see, I am nice :shades: ) and traffic was amazingly awesome and well behaved. No LLCs, no crawlers, no weavers, no obvious yappers, just flowing traffic. I even saw a BMW use its turn signal! (but then got behind one that didn't)
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,254
    edited July 2013
    Nobody will point at you, you drive an invisible car (and you like it that way) - you could hit a flock of nuns and nobody would see it :shades:

    But drive a white Maserati like a [non-permissible content removed], and people will see it, and make educated guesses. I find it fascinating how some people keep their head in the sand about the relationship between smoke and fire. I hope that doesn't make me intolerant. Oh, bleeding hearts, what would we do without you.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    edited July 2013
    I hope that doesn't make me intolerant.

    Oh, pretty sure it does. Call it an "educated guess." :shades: Or if not intolerant, likely one or more of these, related to intolerant per Webster's:

    uncompromising, unforgiving, unyielding; complaining, fussing, griping, grumbling, kvetching, protesting, squawking, whining
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,254
    edited July 2013
    Yes, indeed. My hope for not being seen as intolerant was sarcastic, you know :P

    Kind of like when say "aww nice" when I see a dopey move on the road.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    edited July 2013
    Backy you were referring to the BIBLICAL phrase of "judge not, lest...blah blah" and that definitely implies that the judge also punishes.

    I don't wish these morons ill. I'm only pointing out that they are thoroughly incompetent when piloting 2 tons of steel hurtling at 75 mph down the same road I'm on.

    I feel I have a right to voice my objection. :P

    If you saw, say, a WELDER who was welding a full gas tank, you'd "judge" him---STOP YOU IDIOT!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    My apologies. I didn't know you are also a Biblical scholar. You're a talented guy.

    How about this one, not from the Bible: "Intolerant is as intolerant does, sir."

    There is a difference between observing what happens right in front of you, and reporting on that, and making assumptions (and judgements) about the person's intelligence, income, where they got their money, etc. etc. etc.

    That is all. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    edited July 2013
    Unavoidable. Human nature. You're "judging" me right now :P

    You know those higway signs that say "report drunk drivers"? it's like that with me.

    When I observe, and judge, bad driving on the highway I am undertaking an act of self-preservation. I don't feel I have to apologize for it.

    for all I know, the person I observed grinding the front air dam on a Maserati to bits in a parking lot, might have stolen it.

    In any event, it bears watching. My observing kicks in first, the judging is slightly afterwards.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    We are all observing and judging bad driving here... that's the point of the discussion.

    What is not the point of the discussion is [non-permissible content removed]-uming and judging things that have absolutely nothing to do with observed driving behavior.

    You make an excellent point: "for all I know...". Yes. Exactly. We DON'T know.

    Why can't we focus on the inconsiderate driving and how much we detest it, not how much we detest certain types of people, based on how much money they have or other things that have nothing to do with driving?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Well it's the incompetent part I'm judging, not the rich part. If they (the rich person, or the scam artist, as the case may be) drives his new Ferrari like a recently escaped chimpanzee, I only noticed the entire event because of the driving.

    If I, living in an affluent part of California, merely ENVIED every $100,000++ car I saw on the road, I'd have no life.

    but when that $100,000 car (or house, or piece of artwork) is being ruined, wrecked or abused, it's really hard to blithely ignore these acts of carnage.

    Especially if you LOVE cars in the first place. It might not be quite as difficult to restrain judgement as say it would be for a dog lover to watch a dog being whipped, but sometimes with me it's close! :P
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,254
    There's the fun - it is completely logical that irresponsible ostentatious unearned wealth that has never had to answer to anyone would drive in a manner that is irresponsible and appears to never answer to anyone. Funny how that works. In FACT, those assumptions have much to do with driving.

    Just skip the posts you don't like instead of trying to dictate discussion, nobody has a right to not be offended.

    Time to start taxing trust funds at 98% and giving wealth-based traffic fines (like in some real developed nations) as real deterrents to douchebaggery. Keep right except to pass.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    edited July 2013
    It's a two-way street. The rich judge the poor even more severely. *I even judge the "poor", when I see a beater going down the road, bellowing smoke and with the muffler dragging sparks on the ground.

    The egalitarian might say "well he has as much right to be on the road as YOU, mr. fancy-pants Mini Cooper owner"

    Well yes and no. He has the right to drive a safe, clean-burning car in a competent manner, as much as I do.

    Does the Harley rider have the "right" to create so much noise as to break your front window when he drives past?

    I don't think so.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    Does the Harley rider have the "right" to create so much noise as to break your front window when he drives past?

    That wins the Red Herring of the Month Award! :)

    Such a Harley is clearly in violation of noise ordinances... unless your municipality doesn't have them, then I feel sorry for you. No one has the "right" to break the law... including speed laws, no-turn-on-red laws, pollution and safety laws (for the beater bellowing smoke and dragging a muffler). People who choose to break the law need to be ready to accept the consequences of their decision.

    But let's talk about what a despicable person that Harley rider is, in fact, how despicable all the low-lifes who ride motorcycles are. We all know every single one is a no-brain, no-class idiot with no consideration for anyone else. They should all be forced to pay a $50,000 per year tax for disturbing our peace and quiet with their obnoxious bikes.

    "Just my opinion" of course... but I'm most likely correct about it. ;)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Actually that's what Harley-Davidson thought about Harley riders, that they were low-lifes--they fired all their old customers in the 1980s and made motorcycle riding respectable for families.

    Marketing is "judgement" too.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,425
    just as " nobody has a right to not be offended."

    you do not have a right to be offensive. :D
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,254
    edited July 2013
    Just as you claim road ragers choose to become enraged by LLCs and other surplus population, the offended are choosing to be offended :P

    When questioning unearned wealth in this age of so many financial crimes becomes offensive...something is broken.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,254
    edited July 2013
    Sadly, in much if not most of the US, there are no enforceable standards for noise or vehicle condition. I see some sketchy stuff on the road here (as my state lacks inspections and only has emissions testing in densely populated areas). Sometimes it also isn't a matter of money, but simple ignorance or laziness, when it comes to rotten cars on the road. For some people, cars just aren't in their minds as anything more than transport. They drive it til it dies, then fix it or replace it. I'd be all for German or British style inspections, but sadly, residential housing and transportation infrastructure here wouldn't support it, not to mention the socio-economic chasm.

    Loud smoke belching small man syndrome diesel pickups annoy me even more than weekend rebel Harley riders (who around here are casualties as much as typically idiotic kids on sportbikes). However, no laws exist to do anything about it, and there's no way any will be passed. Wouldn't be "business friendly" or some such nonsense.

    Oh yeah,speaking of Harleys, the other day I saw a stereotype with loud pipes, tin can helmet, smoking a cigar (!) while "riding" his 1200lb hog. I almost laughed out loud.

    And to point to a previous sad distraction, I also don't know of many Harley riders who are irresponsible overgrown teenagers living off daddy's money like so many of the local young supercar set. The should-be-taxed-to-death trust fund set usually lacks the wherewithal to operate a motorcycle to begin with. Harley riders are easier to stereotype - usually an aging boomer who is still reliving Easy Rider :shades:
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,254
    Took a drive up to the mountains today. Lots of traffic on 90, not too much bad, but a few oddities. First, I am in the right lane, going 65 in a 60, light traffic. Dodge truck comes up behind me, sits there, then shoots past going maybe 80 and vanishes. About 15 minutes later, when the road is wider and the limit is 70, I pass him as he is dawdling at 68 in the middle lane. I don't really see him again after that.

    Later, I am in the middle lane, going ~70 in a 70, Prius exits on the right - then at the last second veers back onto the highway, crossing over the gore point for a long time. He then goes slow and vanishes. But maybe 20 minutes later, the limit is 60, and he passes me on the left, going at least 75 - and he was the sole occupant in a carpool lane.

    Third irritant was an older woman in a garish pearl white Escalade flicking her cigarette out the window. Just right for dry summer conditions. Drove for ~140 miles, didn't see a single cop, so that's nice.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,425
    edited July 2013
    Didn't see a cop within 140 miles doesn't mean they were not out there. Look out for the Black plain Suburban and a few Explorers also unmarked.

    Staters on motorcycles = common in this weather.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,254
    edited July 2013
    Oh for sure - but from my experience, the WSP doesn't really hide out too much - they are usually easy to spot, and they don't seem to pick off anyone going under 10 over (in good weather and traffic). They go for the inattentive who are going too fast. If someone goes 80 in a 60 past a grey SUV parked near an overpass, they deserve to be pulled over. It's the city and county revenuers IMO who hide out more and are stricter, as they have numerous quotas or at least, soft goals.

    In Bellevue, the city PD speedtraps are also easy to find, just look for a long downhill or straight stretch with an underposted limit. I did see COB motorcycles hiding out on a sidewalk downtown a couple weeks ago, but I think they were FINALLY doing crosswalk duty (after many complaints) rather than speedtrapping, as you can't go 10 over when the car in front of you is going 9mph.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,028
    Stick to the speed limit.

    As soon as all speed limits are set to the 85th percentile or higher, then that recommendation can become a valid one.

    Stick to setting the speed limits correctly!
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,028
    Time to start taxing trust funds at 98% and giving wealth-based traffic fines (like in some real developed nations) as real deterrents to douchebaggery. Keep right except to pass.

    If you really want the traffic fines to be about deterring people, then yes, they need to be wealth-based amounts, and more important, the funds must not go to the courts, officers, agencies, stations, and other corrupt peddlers that are involved in the enforcement of the traffic laws. The money should go to rebuilding our crumbling roads, which by the way, reduce safety by lowering the G capabilities of cars and increasing braking distances in an emergency.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,254
    edited July 2013
    I'd love to see that be true for phone yapping offenses too. Had a crosswalk crowder with a phone to her ear again today - brainless twit in a Land Rover who didn't notice there were people in a green signaled crosswalk until she started rounding the corner. Should be more than a slap on the wrist. Being an idiot in a clumsy (on road) SUV is worse than doing it in an econobox.

    Funny to think that 50 years ago, my grandfather was able to cruise down the same interstates as me, at roughly the same speeds, but in a car with much less safety engineering and handling ability - and it was just fine.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,028
    If you mention that most Interstate Traffic Engineers designed our freeways for 100 MPH traffic, you'll get ostracized as blasphemous and outrageous.

    We can't let facts from scientists and engineers get in the way of low speed limits.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,254
    edited July 2013
    And back in the day it was imagined, for 5000lb mastadon cars with drum brakes, numb steering, no passive safety, wallowy handling, and bias ply tires - where today I am sometimes even held to slower speeds in a modern car with 658 airbags, modern crash protection, modern handling, much lower casualty rates, etc. I think many here would jump for joy at a 50mph highway limit. Logic and accountability have left the building.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,028
    There was a story in the media about a local city where the residents got upset at the video speed trap they started doing. Apparently, some kid got ran over and died, and the locals overreacted with speed cameras. Well, one Sunday, apparently 75% of the congregation got ticketed on the way through town going to church, and all hell broke loose. The city was about to be boycotted and they were losing revenues (the businesses were abandoned by customers).

    I asked in the comments if the new lower 25 MPH speed limit was obeyed, and someone still got run over and died, would 15 MPH be next? I never got an answer. Why can't people understand speed has nothing to do with most deaths? I can kill you just fine running over you with a Hummer H1 even at 5 MPH.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,254
    edited July 2013
    It would be nice if that really happened - city (and its well paid "servants") acts up, it gets boycotted and financially murdered.

    I've always theorized random speed limit changes (when a 40 changes to a 30 for no apparent reason - many of these in my area) are because an old mayor's niece's dog got hit by a car there in 1973, and the supposed authorities overreacted. Either that, or it is a simple revenue generator with no story behind it. There are a few notorious camera "cities" (sprawly strip mall burbs, in reality) in my area, I avoid them, but not because of their safety masquerade, but because they offer nothing in virtually every other way as well.
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