Ford Freestyle - Taurus X

preferbicycles · February 2007

I don't know whether the Freestyle is more or less reliable than anything else, although I have had no problems with mine. Nor do have any particular reason to think that the CR reliability rating is wrong.

However, CR's sample is clearly not random--it is a self-selected sample of Consumer Reports subscribers, which is a self-selected group in the first place. I am quite sure if they took a survey of their readers regarding political preferences, the results would deviate wildly from the general population, as the CR readership is vastly unrepresentative. I am not saying that their automotive results would be as skewed, but it just isn't a random sample.

And it is quite unlikely that CR had 6000 survey respondents who own Freestyles. We don't know that for certain because CR doesn't release that type of information, but we do know that they say that their surveys represent information on about 1.3 million cars. Since Freestyles (all years) total less than 300,000 vehicles, and there are probably close to 100 million cars in CR's potential universe, if CR readers owned and reported upon their cars in proportion to their population in the CR car universe, that would only be 3900 Freestyles of all years in their sample. There were 76739 Freestyles sold in their first year, which would translate into just less than 1000 Freestyles for that year in the CR sample.

coldcranker · February 2007

preferbicycles,

And when you count the JD Powers results on top of the CR ratings which match Powers, do you think the Freestyle is above average in quality?

If your 1,000 surveys returned number is about correct, that would put the uncertainty at 1% instead of 0.5%, no big difference, so thats not the issue.

What we really need is an average of how many times a Freestyle (compared to others) strands its driver. That would be a more usable measure of Freestyle reliability, since I wonder how many "mildly-annoying" problems the Freestyle has had compared to others. The brakes problem is one problem that is annoying, but not one that strands you. Someone wrote on these forums about how his CVT tranny cracked open and stranded him, the kind of info a potential buyer might want to know the likelihood of.

explorerx4 · February 2007

pick a catagory with a black dot. what are the parameters?
hypothetical example: electrical. is a burnt light bulb the same as a power window that won't work, or a faulty alternator? i don't know, just looking for more info. :confuse:

coldcranker · February 2007

explorer4,
Agreed. JD Powers has something which measures time spent at the Service Dept., which would be some measure of the probability of "trouble" one would get. I haven't been able to actually locate this JD Powers figure, though. Someone wrote to the forums a while back about his Freestyle-similar Ford500 that had metal particles in the motor oil and a funny engine noise, so I'd be interested in which car maker prevents this kind of thing from happening the most!

northlakes · February 2007

Your comments on reliability make sense to me.

I used a number of sources to choose my 2005 Freestyle.
1) CR uses dots to bin the information instead of showing us detailed statistics - to keep it simple for those who don't like statistics. The dots and the brief comments didn't tell me enough about what their reliability or quality comments meant, so...
2) J.D. Powers gave more information but also asked very subjective questions.
3) I did spend quite a bit of time at safercar.gov looking for TSBs and recalls.
4) I read a dozen or so reviews.
5) I talked to the dealer's service department.
6) I read the blueovalnews.com reports about the delayed shipping of the Freebie for three to four months to 'get it right'.
It takes the context of a whole set of information like the above to make a buying decision. Of course, car buying includes a lot of emotional input.

My 2005 AWD Freestyle has not had a problem. I did not fill out a CR survey. They do not have my input. Statistical data implies trends. It does not, however, prove a causal relationship. One must be careful about extrapolating data. "It is good to make things as simple as possible, but not simpler" - Einstein :shades:

rick2456 · February 2007

I had the same fear about buying in the first model year. I ended up buying the 2005 AWD SEL, but it must have been one of the last 2005 built as I bought it in Feb 06. The fact that I got 8k of MSRP was the deciding factor. So far I have had none of the problems many have written about and my only gripes are the styling, the climate control (i prefer the simpler manual system) and the external antenna.

preferbicycles · February 2007

I don't understand the JD Powers methodology, but it is not clear to me that they are measuring the same things that CR is measuring, so I don't really know whether the two sets of ratings are mutually supportive or not. But I noted at the top of my reply to you earlier that I do not know how reliable the Freestyle is relative to other vehicles. I certainly don't have any reason to think it is MORE reliable than other vehicles--that is part of not knowing.

What I know is that mine has been good, but as you pointed out earlier, that proves nothing, and I agree with you about that. I think it is hard to know the significance of the CR survey results, but I guess we disagree about that.

barnstormer64 · February 2007

I think it is hard to know the significance of the CR survey results

Not for me. They're next to worthless. At least on cars. :P

coldcranker · February 2007

barnstormer, Next to worthless? And you know this how? They are people who know what their doing, many years experience. If both CR and JDPowers come to the same conclusion, then no reasonable person would throw them both out. There is a proven science to surveying and its known to be very good, and doesn't have to be exact to be good. Nothing wrong with their techniques that is significant. Face it: the Freestyle is less reliable than most other vehicles for 2005. And, given Fords track record, that is consistent and not just due to it being the first year. But enough on this subject. (I'm beginning to understand how O.J. could have been found not guilty.)

pnewby · February 2007

And if you don't think CR is biased, then I have a nice bridge for sale. They got their opinions of US vs [non-permissible content removed]. just like 99% of the public, listen to the hype and don't see what has been covered up. I subscribe but use it for what it is worth. CR based the ratings for the '05 on some things they read here and on other on-line boards about the CVT being such a problem, which just hasn't proven out. An early review in CR even stated, (and no I no longer have the article) that due to lack of data, they couldn't statistically rate the car but based on complaints seen on consumer internet boards, they would give not only the Freestyle, but also the AWD version of the 500 a black dot. Now how does that make sense? Many of the early complainers on the early posts eventually admitted they didn't have one, just "knew" they would be bad.

dougmalissa · February 2007

This back and forth needs to stop. America is great because we can all have our own opinions.
I have a Freestyle, love it! I know my company has a Freestyle in it's line up for our salesman. No issues with it and it is an 05 unit.
I have a mechanic friend who has a client that has an 05 Freestyle and doesn't like it. As the saying goes, "To each his own."
Yea for America!

stevedebi · February 2007

"passat_2002, Look at the facts. Look in the CR 2007 Buying Guide (library). There is a black dot for the '05 Freestyle overall. Say it ain't so, Shoeless Joe!"

They didn't even base their rating on a Freestyle; it is based on the Ford 500 (unless it has changed since I last looked).

coldcranker · February 2007

It was based on the Freestyle, not the Ford500.

barnstormer64 · February 2007

barnstormer, Next to worthless? And you know this how?

Practical experience. :P

stevedebi · February 2007

"It was based on the Freestyle, not the Ford500."

Well, I don't take CR, so they must have changed it. The original report indicated that the black dot was based on reliability of the 05 Ford 500. How does the 2006 reliability stack up?

tim156 · February 2007

This may be the result of an over active imagination. I'm becoming concerned about the re-sale and trade-in value of my Freestyle 4 or 5 years from now. My main concern is the CVT. Since Ford is going to discontinue it and close the factory, what's the chance of getting replacement parts? What's the value going to be on a vehicle with an obsolete and discontinued transmission. As much as I love everything about the car, and have had NO problems with mine, I'm considering a 2007 Forester, Rav 4 or Vue in that order. Nicely equipped, they're all very reasonable in price. I looked at the Edge but I don't like the option packages or the price. Plus, what's the future of Ford? I still have a lot of research and test drives to do. Any opinions on re-sale and trade-in values?

coldcranker · February 2007

'06 Freestyle reliability numbers aren't in yet, just '05 model year data.

passat_2002 · February 2007

The vehicles you're considering are certainly lesser ones than your Freestyle. For instance, none of them have the Volvo architecture your Freebie does. But aside from that.. I think you are over-reacting to the discontinuation of the CVT. Surely you must have something else more pressing in your life to worry about. But if it bothers you that much, why not wait until this Fall and trade-in your CVT model for a 6-spd Freestyle with the new 3.5L engine.

passat_2002 · February 2007

Ooops. I meant Taurus X.

xnappo · February 2007

The Freestyle has already sold more cars than my other car ever did (1991 Nissan 300ZX). I don't have any problems getting parts for my Z yet.

xnappo

tim156 · February 2007

Actually, my life is going pretty good. Waiting until fall is an option I'm considering. Price is my main concern with the new Freestyle, oops, Taurus X. One of the many reasons I bought mine was the price. I'm holding myself to the low to mid 20's. That's one reason I'm not looking at the Edge. My concern with the CVT is more a matter of perception by a potential buyer/dealer than parts. Although, parts will become an issue eventually. I'm leaning more towards the Forester because of it's safety record. It's going to be smaller in interior room and cargo space, but what vehicle out there even comes close to the features of the Freestyle.

coldcranker · February 2007

The Freestyle is the one to get, no doubt about it. Those who think otherwise must not value a high-MPG, practical, intelligent vehicle from Ford.

rick2456 · February 2007

I stopped off at Carmax and asked for an estimate on my 2005 FS SEL AWD. For a vehicle with 5500 miles on it, new condition, I was offered 18500 on a vehicle with a 33000 MSRP. So I would guess the resale value is not all that great. Of course I only paid 25000 for it, but even then, I am still upside down, just not as much.

jimcat11 · February 2007

I think I did good. I paid only 14,500 for my 05 Freestyle with 18k miles on it.. and with a 5k trade in.. and a few down.. it is almost all paid for

Not to bad, but I agree resale is not all that great. I do intend to keep this as long as it hold out and it seems to be holding just fine

Jim

passat_2002 · February 2007

MSRP is meaningless for your comparison here. The "market value" when you bought it new was the price you paid, or 25K. In effect, that was it's sticker price, at least as far as you're concerned. Carmax is a business that has to buy cars below their true value so they can then sell them at fair value. It's business 101. They would probably wash it, vacuum it out, and put it on the lot at around 21K, or about what you could get in a private sale. The bottom line is that your Freestyle has only depreciated from 25K to around 21K in your two-year ownership. That's pretty awesome really.

mschmal · February 2007

If your car was appraised for trade at $18,500, the dealer will list it for about $23,998 and probably take aroud $20,500.

That is assuming that they don't put any money into the vehicle other than a detail.

Mark.

bruneau1 · February 2007

I wonder what the trade value of a Freestyle will be when it becomes the Taurus X and there will be no more CVTs? Freestyle sales are already down 57% compared to last year and the trend will continue. With Mazda CX-7 and 9 and Edges on the lot with Freestyles, the Freestyles are glued to the lot. Also, most of them are over-optioned and far too high in price.

passat_2002 · February 2007

I wonder about trade-in value myself. I've never owned a vehicle that went through a name-change while I owned it. But I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it. The trade-in value of any vehicle is controlled by market forces.. and certainly nobody has any say over that. In other words.. it's gonna be whatever it's gonna be.

kjnorman · March 2007

I have been a bit harsh on the styling of the new Taurus X. Well I saw one up close today at the Milwaukee Autoshow and I have have to concede that in the metal it actually does not look too bad, Actual from the outside fairly decent.

Still, I'm not keen on the name and though I could not see the new interior, if it is like other Ford efforts of late, then I think they are a bit behind the game. Of the "domestic" manufacturers in my opinion GM definitely has the best interior at the moment.

I took a few photos. If they come out then I will upload them if I can.

xnappo · March 2007

So... Now that in the 2007 CR Auto issue the Freestyle is CR 'Recommended' do we take back anything negative that was said?

xnappo

bruneau1 · March 2007

No, just look at the detailed charts in the back for the 2005 model. CR's results reflect the same problems as reported in this forum. But, at least it is improving, and should be even better as the Taurus X. As CR points out, a black dot does not mean a vehicle is unreliable, but that its trouble exceeds the average (3%).

stevedebi · March 2007

"No, just look at the detailed charts in the back for the 2005 model."

I read the original 2005 report; they based their black dot on the AWD Ford 500, assuming that the Freestyle would have the same reliabilty. So far as I know they didn't use info from the FWD or actual FS numbers. There was a footnote, as I recall.

cmuniz · March 2007

It's interesting. We own both an 05 Freestyle and an 06 Honda Civic. The auto press don't like the Freestyle, but many owners think it's a great car (me included). On the other hand the press loves the Civic, but many owners posting on Edmunds think the cars has many problems and the quality is now poor. Go figure!! All this may not be stastically valid but it goes to show that personal taste/experience trumps written reviews. I owned a 95 Ford Windstar that I drove for 95,000 trouble free miles with original Michelin tires that lasted 75,000 but it received awful ratings from CR and others. Maybe I just got lucky.

mschmal · March 2007

according to Forbes.com, the 2006 Honda CIVIC with 4 recalls is in the top 10 most recalled models of 2006.

Mark

bobw3 · March 2007

What were the nature of the recalls?

tango_28 · March 2007

The only option missing is a sunroof, but has everything else(including nav system). This my first used car in 20 years and so far no problems yet in 2 weeks of driving. The car had 8000 miles on it when we bought it. It was hard find a used one because most of them were rental returns. I have test drove at least 15 Freestyles(new and used ones) in 2 months of looking. I notice that some of the 07s SEL seem louder than limited with more engine noise coming thru the cabin. We are coming from a 2000 Mazda MPV.

mschmal · March 2007

Sorry for the off topic:

Honda Civic Coupe And Sedan
Number Of 2006-Model Recalls: 4

Recalls concerned:

--Faulty frontal airbags
--Incorrect NHTSA contact info in owner's manuals
--Gas pedals that may come loose
--Improperly attached rear glass

http://www.forbes.com/vehicles/2007/02/16/vehicle-recall-safety-forbeslife-cx_dl- _0219recall_slide_6.html?thisSpeed=15000

Mark.

greytautumn · March 2007

My wife and I are looking at a FS for our soon to be family. We rented one and loved it on a 1000 mile drive. Perfect for kids and dogs which is our goal.

The only issue is that it's a Ford and we've never had a good Ford in wither of our families. I have heard far more good than bad on the FS (a rarity with cars it seems) so it is still our front runner vs a Toyota Sienna. I really do not want any minivan. I'll drive a wagon any day- I grew up with a '73 Pontiac station wagon that had a 454 under the hood.

Th Chicago Plant is interesting in that they make a few models on the same line- they quickly reconfigure for the different model Supposedly it's Ford's most high tech assembly plant.

We're looking a later in the year so it may be a leftover '07 or the Taurus X, but that depends on pricing as well. the leftover will be a far better value than the X.=, but there is a major drivetrain change with the new engine and tranny. It remains to be seen about what it'll really mean. EPA mileage will not be even either- the '08 EPA standards are more demanding and will be worse than the '07. I'm looking forward to seeing more. The new styling makes it more interesting looking anyhow. I would call the exisitng FS "utilitarian" or "bland". That certainly does not make it bad!

I still wonder why Ford killed off the Taurus name for the 500. It is the logical replacement- even with the overlap of the lines.

mschmal · March 2007

Please look at dealers in your area, inventory is very very low in all models due to production cuts. Do not expect to be able to wait until the 08s have been out for 2 months and still be able to get an 07 with the options you are looking for.

Ford is trying to put the day of left overs in the past.

Mark

xsubaruonr · March 2007

Free cabin filter info from ANTHONY. So many doubters I had to post.

I just want everyone to be able to enjoy cleaner air for this great car. Ford should have included this in this car and it seems they intended it to be here. You should see an old cabin filter and how much dirt it stops from entering the cabin and a/c coil. If the engine uses an air cleaner, the ac system needs one.

If you use this information you agree to hold me harmless for any and all damages if any are caused.

You will need the sharpest razor you ever used. Aluminum hvac tape, duct tape will fall off and a purolator C35519 air filter.

Empty glove box, remove glove box damper on left side, and drop down.
[img]http://www.myford500.com/photos/data/500/986dash.jpg[/img]

This photo is looking inside the glove box after you lowered it. Locate the air filter mold and cut between the lines. Save the cut out piece to reseal the filter. Be careful when pulling the razor back, the sheetmetal behind the glove box frame is razor sharp. You will notice the mounting holes that Ford might have intended for a filter cover.
[img]http://www.myford500.com/photos/data/500/986dash1.jpg[/img]

Put filter in housing with the arrow down and check which way has the snug fit.
[img]http://www.myford500.com/photos/data/500/986dash2.jpg[/img]

Place cut out piece back in opening and use aluminum hvac tape to seal.

[img]http://www.myford500.com/photos/data/500/986dash3.jpg[/img]

I owned several Toyota Sienna's and they were weak, lousy handling and costly to maintain. Sienna's cabin filter is like a piece of paper. The freestyle 500 handles better, looks better and smokes the sienna.

tidester · March 2007

You need to use regular tags to post an image as in <img src="www.myford500.com/photos/data/500/986dash.jpg"> to get this:

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

stever · March 2007

You may want to put the photos on your CarSpace.com page so they'll be bigger too - these are a bit hard to see. Just login with your forum user name/idea and then follow the Album prompts.

rick2456 · March 2007

LOL if that is the case, then I feel really sorry for anyone who paid near the MSRP.

mschmal · March 2007

When I went to the intro training on the Ford 500, they told was going to be a cabin air filter and showed us it on the preproduction unit.

Funny, all the production units I have seen have it deleted.

I have a cabin air filter on my 07 Mustang and I definitely notice how much cleaner the dash is compared to previous cars I owned.

Mark

fordenvy · March 2007

Badged Taurus X (stupid), New 3.5L engine (good), new 6-speed transmission (good), new All-Wheel Drive system (good), new facia (better then the last), new two-tone interior and seat upholestry (good). The buttons, handles, and levers on the old freestyle were already of good quality so no need for improvement there. Did I leave anything out?

saabturboid · March 2007

The existing Haldex system is proven and very effective. Volvo will still be using it so there must be a reason for that. I was very impressed with how well the AWD Haldex system worked on our Freestyle over the last few weeks as we had back to back 16" snow storms. The "new" system is not being used because it is better. It is being used because it is cheaper. This doesn't equate to a (good) in my book.

I am also not with you on the new transmission. I am a CVT proponent and wish Ford had continued to develop it.

Regarding the name change... well...I wouldn't be caught dead with a Taurus in my driveway. I don't think I'm alone.

greytautumn · March 2007

That is in the X. I know that the existing haldex is as good as they get, but it's costly.

I believe that the base drive train is common between the Saturn Outlook, GMC Acadia (direct Envoy replacements), Ford 500 and the X. At least the transmission was a joint venture between GM and Ford. I'm not sure about the 3.5 engine.

This car will be my daily driver as my wife has a company car and it's shaping up that it'll be a Prius (we call it a beep-beep). I'll end up with the 'high' of the hi-lo mix. Finally! I always end up with the lo!

Reality is that I could go for a late model used FS as well. There's some Limited's here in Boston for 23k with under 10k miles. By far an excellent bargain IMHO. I'd be happy with an SEL

too bad that in '078 it'll become a city commuter from home into downtown Boston.

mschmal · March 2007

GM and Ford co-developed the 6 speed trans however, the software will be different so they will probably not feel the same.

Mark.

tim156 · March 2007

I did some research, drove a Forester and Rav and you're all right, neither one of those even comes close to the Freestyle with all its attributes. Although, I was impressed with the ride and overall quality of the Forester. With that said, I couldn't pass up a deal on a 07 Freestyle SEL. I traded in my 05 SE for a fully loaded with moonroof, for $1000 less than I paid for my 05 SE. The trade in value was less than desired, but my dealership is practically giving away the Freestyle. Less than 23,000 for a new Freestyle, I couldn't pass it up. This one I'll keep. As long as Audi, BMW, Cooper and Nissan keep using the CVT, parts should not be an issue.

bobw3 · March 2007

What did you get as the trade-in value for your '05 Freestyle? about $14K? It's pretty easy to give a really good price on a new car when they're making a killing on the trade-in.

Ford Freestyle - Taurus X

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