Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

tomtomtom · February 2002

Adam, I do own a 2001 T&C ltd. Those things I listed are things I wish I had in the current van.
I do not want a lockable gas cap, that will be an extra key to carry (and if you lost that key??)
The volume button on the steering wheel is only 3 inches away from the knob of the headunit, it would make more sense to swap position with other buttons on the left hand side.
I guess you haven't seen the latest head units out there. Even though the unit in the DC van sounds great and looks Ok, but those aftermarket units look far more better. Infinity makes great speakers but they don't make headunit, can you imagine what the system would sound if a aftermarket unit is installed?

dmathews3 · February 2002

Don't DC vans have locking fuel filler doors?

tomtomtom · February 2002

Not in mine and I know Hondas' do

dmathews3 · February 2002

WOW THE HONDA HAS SOMETHING THAT A DC VAN DON'T? Wow that's even better than that stupid arm rest bull. Since having some kids dump junk in a car of ours years ago I'll take a locking fuel door over a stupid padded armrest that I couldn't reach anyway being I have my seat all the way back. Just another plus for the Odyssey, along with a real trip computer, not some stupid thing that gives me an about on my gas mileage that after a few months of driving I don't really need to know any more as it don't change. Also really knowing which direction I'm going, my altitude,and when my arm gets sore from lack of a padded armrest I can check my nav. system for a place to eat or even a hospital if my elbow gets real sore than a bunch of dime store bells and whistles that don't tell me anything.

tomtomtom · February 2002

I guess I just made your day, didn't I? I have no doubt a nav. system is far more better than a compass but it also cost more and sometimes all you need to know is if you are heading the right direction. Again, I did consider a Ody. but was not happy about the 2 months waiting list (dealer didn't even have one for me to test drive) and the third row.

4aodge · February 2002

I forgot that you owned a 2001 Town & Country and thus probably know much more about the 2001+ MY DC vans that I do. Regarding the head unit, I actually like how it looks and personaly don't think it's worth the money to buy an aftermarket headunit. But I might change my mind after hearing what those Infinity speakers would sound like with an aftermarket unit.

dmathews, does your Odyssey have doors that lock automaticly over 15mph and power doors and rear hatch with obstacle detection s ystem? Oh and also, padded armrest? I don't think so...

dmathews3 · February 2002

dmathews, does your Odyssey have doors that lock automaticly over 15mph and power doors and rear hatch with obstacle detection s ystem? Oh and also, padded armrest? I don't think so
4aodge, does your van have less than 5 star crash test results, a possible fuel tank that leaks, a company that takes years and Uncle Sam to make you recall them, poor resale backed by a company that lost what 4 billion dollars because there are a lot of people out there that know the real DC.....I think so, but you do have soft arm rests,

4aodge · February 2002

tomtomtom, just be glad your Town & Country doesn't have the cheesy smashed together headunit of the Honda Odyssey which looks like it was designed for use by midgets. Not only that, but also be glad you don't have to put up with the "50s era sound system" found in the Odyssey as well.

People who like to jam in their minivan know which clearly has the advantage in that respect...LOL

4aodge · February 2002

4aodge, does your van have less than 5 star crash test results, a possible fuel tank that leaks, a company that takes years and Uncle Sam to make you recall them, poor resale backed by a company that lost what 4 billion dollars because there are a lot of people out there that know the real DC.

Yes, my van does have less than a 5 star safety rating. Does that mean it's not safe to drive? No. I know I am quite safe when driving it and still look good too.

Does my van have a possible fuel tank that leaks? No, my 2000 Town & Country does not. However, some 2001 model vans do but I would still not loose any sleep over that if I owned one.

Poor resale value? Guilty as charged. But as many of the other 9 million Chrysler minivan owners out there will say, it did not keep them from buying a DC product. I know it certainly woud not keep me from buying another Town & Country. After all, nothing is perfect, and the Honda Odyssey certainly isn't.

Well dmathews, regarding "the true DC", over 35k people this month bought a DC minivan of some kind rather than a Honda Odyssey. I guess there are still alot of people out there who do know "the true DC" which just so happens to be a bit nicer than the one you would like to believe is out there building death traps for people to put there families in. You are only showing your ignorance of the situation Chrysler is in now by saying its because people now know "the true DC." Whatever that means...

BTW, does your minivan have a leather/suede heated power drivers seat with memory AND AN UMBRELLA HOLDER!?!?!?!??!?!??

dave210 · February 2002

Actually I was miffed when my 2001 T&C LTD didn't come with this. It was advertised as so, and my friend's 1999 T&C LTD has it, yet my 2001 T&C LTD is void of any umbrella holder anywhere! Oh well, I'll just have to "ruff it" and use the front door map pocket as my umbrella holder.

dmathews3 · February 2002

Only need those on vehicles that are prone to breakdowns.......oh ya it's a DC van. Sorry I forgot.

hayneldan · February 2002

This may be off topic but the new DC "sports tourer" the Pacifica will have both a fold flat third seat and 4 wheel drive. No mention of how the spare tire situation will be handled. This is rumored to be the next platform for DC minivans. It will come out in 2003 as a 2004 model.

tomtomtom · February 2002

Umbrella holder, it should be at the rear bottom of the front passenger seat. Com'on dmathews3, I am sure you have used a umbrella before. The sound system was one of the reason I chose the T&C. It is true that you can install a aftermarket headunit and speakers in any car but it is hard to get the good sound quality if the speakers locations aren't right in the first place. Actually the Infinity sound system in the T&C sounds much better than the HK system in the bimmer. Anyway, I still wish the headunit is not customized (on both T&C and bimmer).

dmathews3 · February 2002

The fold flat 3rd seat could be like the one GM is using this year. Also not only do you have to worry about the spare but also the gas tank. There is only so much room. They may go the route Honda has with the mini-spare in the middle of the van inside, and the thinner gas tank also which can give you the splashing noise. Being there is only so much room to work with there is always a trade off unless they want to make a very high dollar van.

crkeehn · February 2002

4aodge · February 2002

Apparently not...

http://carpoint.msn.com/browse/win_4019555.asp?src=Home&pos=Edit2

dmathews3 · February 2002

Did I hear that CR again picked the Odyssey as the number 1 van? Also could it be that since the early 99's had a couple recalls and they're over that the rating of that year went up on the new survey? Geez, I bet if Odysseys had padded arm rests they would have been best of the best in everything.

tomtomtom · February 2002

They also picked a lot of other things, I guess everything in your house was bought based on their report then. Yes a padded arm rests would be nice, just why couldn't they put the darn things into the van?

4aodge · February 2002

"Yes a padded arm rests would be nice, just why couldn't they put the darn things into the van?"

Good question...

bob550k · February 2002

I drove all of the Mini Vans before I purchased, I mean all of them. I found the DC van to be quite nice, very comfortable, good performance, lots of features etc... I took my wife to drive the Odyssey since they have such a good reputation. We looked it over, the wife tried to flip up the 3rd row seat and really struggled to lift that thing, not a deal breaker. I hopped in and drove it first, good but not great power until 5,500 RPM then wham 240hp kicks in for a second then shifts at 6,000 RPM. Pretty useless powerband in a minivan unless you want to make the kids sick. So I got in the passenger seat and found my shins against the dash board and I'm not quite 6'0 tall, apparently the radio isn't the only item made for midgets. I have noticed when I see a fully loaded Odyssey that the tail is all squatted down, don't they have automatic ride leveling? After researching the repair history (not consumer reports everyone knows who's pocket they're in) I found out that there has been a ton of (Shhhh. don't tell anyone) transmissions that have failed in the past few years in Oysseys. We bought a big fat American Mini Van with every option under the sun, no knees against dash boards, no rear end dragging, no kids barfing from trying to get into the power band and my wife isn't complaining about the 400lb third row seat. And best of all, a padded arm rest.

Oh yeah, We bought it used. 30 months old still under the factory bumper to bumper, 24,000 miles and nearly 50% off the $34,000 window sticker when new. I suppose we could have bought a used high mileage stripped Odyssey for a little more...

We chose the Old's Sihlouette Premiere, and it's loaded up with every option GM offered including the TV/VCR, Dual A/C, Auto Ride Leveling, power doors, leather, four captains chairs, roof rack and stuff I have yet to figure out. The 3.4 V6 only makes 180 HP, but it makes over 80% of it's power throughout more than 80% of the power band meaning great power is always available no waiting for 5,500 RPM if I want to give the kids a scare. I'm sure it would spin the tires if it weren't for that pesky traction control system. This thing is a rolling living room.

My dog is a big dog, I'm thinking part pig.

Oink

4aodge · February 2002

Excellent comments made about the various minivans out there. Although I have not driven a 2002 Odyssey with the 240hp 3.5 engine, I know from past experience with Honda that it is probably over-rated. Like you said, Honda engines take forever to get going and you have to reach about 5,000+ RPM just to get into the power range. Those 240 horses aren't all they seem to be as alot counts on where those 240 horses are made.

The 180hp 3.4 V6 in your new GM van and the 158hp 3.3 V6 in our 2000 Town & Country can hold their own against the 240hp 3.5 of the 02 Odyssey. You won't have to floor them to get good power and they work much less in the city and during around the town driving. Your story of buying a non-Honda van is a good one because it shows the over-rated Odyssey isn't for everyone...

carleton1 · February 2002

I also test drove a 2002 Ody EX-Nav-Lthr with added RES (MSRP $34,000) on Dec 29, 2001 and was impressed with it. However, the Ody LX at $24,690 gives the same powertrain, room, Magic Seat, etc. as the fully loaded EX for almost $10K less.
We felt the Ody LX @ $24,690, the GC eL @ $24,175 and the T&C eL @ $24,330 are very comparable. However, after buying the 2002 T&C eL on 1/26/2002, we got such a good deal on the 9 month old 2001 Ody EX with only 11,505 miles on it that we could not pass it up. It has been fun driving the Ody EX and T&C eL so an immediate side-by-side comparison is easily made.
Honestly, the Ody and DC minivans ride, drive, etc. so similarly it is difficult for my wife and I to tell the difference. Ody for power, adjustable 2nd row seating, and Magic Seat. DC for comfort items like separately controlled temp for driver and front passenger, complete overhead console, and slightly quieter, smoother ride.
The only nicer thing than having either a DC minivan or an Odyssey is to have one of each to drive.

carleton1 · February 2002

Was he uninformed? NO !
He has driven his parent's Ody EX many times with his wife and 4 children and knows all about the Odyssey with the Magic Seat, VTEC engine, cargo space, etc. However, for himself, his wife and 4 children he and his wife preferred AND got another Olds Silhouette. They feel the flexible, modular seating of the Olds Silhouette makes it a better choice for the needs of them and their children.

mudry1 · February 2002

I too have looked at a lot of vans and settled on the T&C and the Ody. While the T&C was definately more luxurious, the headroom was not there. At 6' 7", my head was hitting against the side of the T&C without even moving sideways. I don't have that problem with the Ody. I don't know about that guy that was 6' 2" and had his shins against the passanger dashboard, I tried all the seats, except the third seat because I don't have to sit there, and they were comfortable, nothing different than the Windstar my wife drives. Although there is more room in the drivers seat. To all you people on this site arguing about which car (van) beats which, or is better that the other, they are all good. It is all on how you feel about the vehicle. I can tell you horror stories about a lot of vehicles, but that happens with them all, no exceptions. As for reliability, I have to agree that the Honda name alone is very reliable. They really stand up for their product, and this is coming from a Ford truck owner for years. I had every thing I needed in the truck, speed, room, comfort, sound, you name it, I had all the toys. But life and situations change and now I need the people transportation that I didn't have in the truck. Good luck to all of you and to myself, I just ordered a 2002 EX/L.

carleton1 · February 2002

The sharp, angular, crisp styling of the Odyssey provides for more head room at the outer edges of all seats. Having a 2002 T&C eL and a 2001 Ody EX in my driveway makes a side by side comparison very easy.
Why choose between an Odyssey and DC minivan? Better to have one of each. It is almost impossible to tell the difference in power, handling, quietness, etc. using the driving habits of my wife and myself. Each has nice, unique features. I think the Ody LX @$24,690, GC eL @ $24,175 and T&C eL @ $24,330 are a toss up for most desireable for the needs of my wife and myself.

ody01 · March 2002

Looked at all minivans. Chrysler makes nice minivans with many nice features. Chrysler minivans most popular. Odyssey had most power, most space for passenger and luggage, almost best gas mileage. Odyssey now second in sales but sell lots less than Caravan.

swampcollie · March 2002

have we decided which is the best?... all I know is im on my 3rd DC minivan (87, 93 which i still have and a 99). I have no reason to change...love em.... we have found them to be extremely reliable.. I dont know much about the Honda, Im sure it is a very nice van.

odd1 · March 2002

Maybe Odyssey drivers keep BOTH hands on the wheel. Which would completely eliminate the need for arm rest altogether.

dmathews3 · March 2002

Maybe we are taller than 3'9" and have the seat back far enough where we can't use it. Or is it that in an Odyssey they give you so much seat travel that we can move them farther back. I just also wonder if our 2nd row seats move more than the front seats on a DC van. We all know our 2nd row move and the DC vans don't. Maybe that is better than a stupid padded armrest.

4aodge · March 2002

or maybe quad buckets with leather/ suede trim, front power seats and a driver's seat with heat, memory, and lumbar support is even better?

oh, and i forgot to mention power adjustable driver's pedals AND padded armrest!

mudry1 · March 2002

Why would you need adjustible pedals anyway? If the seat has all those adjustments that you rave about, then why would you need adjustible pedals? It seems to me that the Ody I looked at had padded arm rests, maybe I was on drugs and didn't notice, or maybe it wasn't that important. I even believe that there is a power drivers seat with heat and a lumbar support in the Ody, but no memory. Do you need a memory to know where your seat is when you are the only driver? Is it that hard to change the position when you have all those power options? Quad buckets, real cool man!!!!!

tomtomtom · March 2002

Adjustable pedals are useful for shorter drivers, they help them to reach the pedals without getting too close to the steering wheel. Yes seat memory is useless when there is only one driver but some people do have more than 1 driver for the van. Many features included in both vans are useless for some people but some people do find them very useful. That's why both vans exist.

4aodge · March 2002

quad buckets are really cool but quad buckets with leather and suede are even cooler!

dmathews3 · March 2002

even cooler yet when the 2nd row are fully adjustible.

tj_610 · March 2002

My wife and I got our '02 EX-L Odyssey last month. I'm 6'10", and my head rubs against the driver side pillar between front and side door. We obviously preferred the Ody to T&C in the final analysis (esp. since my wife is its primary driver), but I thought T&C had a much roomier driver seat. Just my two cents, we tall guys have to help each other out ;-)

Yes, EX-L has one padded armrest on inside of each front row. Driver seat is power, no memory. Passenger seat is manual. Driver has lumbar support -- manual, not power. Both front seats are heated. I don't use the arm rest much, but haven't been on highway much on cruise control. My wife also finds the magic seat fairly heavy, but I watched her and she needs to learn the technique. Practice makes perfect.

Would I like some of the features on upper end DC vans on my Ody? Yes. Would I have bought a T&C Limited if it had the magic seat, better reasale rate, and I had better personal experience with American-made cars? Possibly. I think any honest appraisal of the two vans must acknowledge the superior luxury of higher-end DC models (I've read lots of your posts over the months, I know how much you like those armrests 4aodge LOL), but that the Ody is a great, slightly more affordable (even at MSRP!!) option with a manufacturer with a superior reliability history. And I'm not sure what the fuss is about the 240 hp delivering at higher RPM's. I am quite happy with the Ody around town performance. I think they did design some of that torque to be delivered at on-ramp and highway passing speeds, though.

dmathews3 · March 2002

Out 01 Odyssey when you stomp on it from stand still the traction contol kicks in so you can only go so fast off the line anyway unless you want to burn up your brakes.

4aodge · March 2002

out of the 12 minivans tested in 2001 for head restraints, only three recieved "good" ratings, including the Dodge Grand Caravan.

http://carpoint.msn.com/advice/news_9203_6.asp

dmathews3 · March 2002

Headrestraints are nice but does the DC vans have shoulder belts FOR ALL SEATING POSITIONS?

tj_610 · March 2002

I suggest turning the traction control system off unless driving conditions are slippery. Owner's manual recommends this for fuel economy also. Maybe the '01 cannot be turned off, our '02 TCS can be disabled.

4aodge · March 2002

Leave it up to dmathews to downplay one of the few significant safety features that the Honda Odyssey does not have, head restraints that recieved a "good" or even "average" rating in a simulated crash test. I would say it is more than 'nice' to have good head restraints when your in an accident and they save you from serious neck injuries. Wouldn't you?

And to answer your question, DC vans do not have shoulder belts for ALL seating positions. Hopefully they will in the near future...

dmathews3 · March 2002

Only trouble with turning off TC is than you start in 2nd gear, which in itself could be a problem over time.
Odyssey has great headrests and on ALL seats.

caviller · March 2002

The IIHS results are here:

http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_passvans.htm

Note that the 2002 Dodge/Chrysler vans receive an "Acceptable" overall rating ONLY if equipped with the optional side airbags.

Rear center seating positions without a lap/shoulder belt AND a head restraint are not recommended for passengers except for children in carseats or high-back boosters. Improved head restraint designs and proper use of head restraints can reduce whiplash related injuries.

It would be nice to have the latest head restraint and seatbelt designs in ALL passenger seating positions. Fortunately, a bill that would mandate rear center shoulder belts recently passed the Senate (S980). It also contains provisions for other important child passenger safety issues. With new government crash testing standards being phased in over the next few years, and with renewed interest in rear-impacts (especially for 3rd row seats), perhaps head restraint designs will be improved across the board, too.

dmathews3 · March 2002

Geez, does that mean that Honda which has headrests and shoulder belts AT ALL SEATING positions cares more about our safety than some stupid padded armrest? I guess Honda cares enough about us to put the money where it counts, in our familys lives.

4aodge · March 2002

"I guess Honda cares enough about us to put the money where it counts, in our familys lives."

After reading that, I could shead a tear. And I guess the millions of irresponsible unloving parents and family members on the road with DC minivans are putting their passengers in grave danger every time they turn on the ignition. Maybe in the world of Snobyssey owners like dmathews, but not in reality.

According to the link provided by caviller, the Toyota Sienna was ranked as the 'best pic' for safety, not the Honda Odyssey. And depending on the seat configuration, the DC minivans scored better in the head restraint test than the Odyssey, as I've already said.

calg · March 2002

I SINCERELY hope all the Gen3 seat belts in the back seats of Chrysler vans hold your children in safely... ABC's report was pretty scary. I hope you are all demanding a recall.. especially you, 4aodge since you would be sitting back there IF your parents ever get a chance to drive their van

caviller · March 2002

I wasn't going to mention the story, since it seems like a pretty rare type of 'failure' to me. In any case, here are the details for anyone interested.

http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/dailynews/primetime_chryslerseatbelts_020307.html

http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/DailyNews/primetime_chryslergen3seatbelts_020307.html

dmathews3 · March 2002

Must be one of the many reasons according to my morning paper that the Odyssey is STILL rated #1 with CR in their upcoming issue. I guess padded armrests down mean much with them either.

caviller · March 2002

If you look at the overall ratings, Odyssey barely nosed Sienna for the best minivan rating, and T&C/GC were just a hair behind Sienna. All received "excellent" overall ratings. Since all had average or better reliability, they (along with MPV) were also given "Recommended" ratings.

As for safety, as expected, Odyssey, Sienna and Windstar finished 1-2-3 but were very close overall with "excellent" ratings. MPV, T&C and GC had a "very good" overall safety rating.

Sienna and MPV led the predicted reliability charts, with both around 30% above average. Odyssey was about 10% above average. T&C and GC were about 10% below average. Note that anything between 20% below and 20% above average results in an "Average" projection. Given that average is only 0.21 problems per vehicle for the first 12 months, these projections seem pretty meaningless.

As I said in earlier posts based on their online information, no Odyssey remains on their "Used Car to Avoid" list. '99 and '00 Odyssey rated average, all other years above average. In fact, Odyssey made the "Good Bets" list for reliable used vehicles.

'94-'97 2WD GC/T&C were on the Used cars to avoid list with below average ratings, and also made the 'Reliability Risks' list. '98-'01 had average reliability. All years of the AWD models except '98 were on the avoid list with below average reliability.

As I said, I think CR makes too big a deal over reliability when the differences actually seem small given their average problem rate. Based on the overall ratings, safety ratings and reliability projections, Odyssey, T&C and GC should all be good choices depending on your needs.

Even if you don't like CR, the April 2002 issue is worth buying if only for the excellent article on safety from pages 10-17.

Cheers.

tomtomtom · March 2002

I don't know when the Padded Armrests became an issue. I remember it was just something nice to have when whoever bought this issue up and it got snowball after that. Since my driving habit is to steer with my left hand and right hand on the shift (in the van my right hand will be resting on the outer armrest and no I don't drive with both hands) I hardly use the armrest on the door, however, I notice all my front passengers do rest their arms on both armrests. So I guess the padded armrests on the door are useful for some people just like other features on both vans.

jmnygaard · March 2002

This is how the padded armrests became a big deal:

There is a certain individual who posts on several boards who is highly critical of the Odyssey and it's owners. He repeatedly misstates "facts" about the Odyssey, even when corrected. One of his assertions was that the Odyssey doesn't have padded arm rests. Of course, those of us who have actually been in an Odyssey know that this is not true. So, I corrected him again, and, as you noted, it snowballed from there. I'm just glad I didn't mention the grocery bag hooks!

Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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