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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
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Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Since my wife doesn't really need the T&C anymore (I know it's still fairly new) and I want a navigation system AND luxury, the new Acura MDX is looking more tempting.
That would mean no more potential Chrysler worries that I hear abut from friends, the news, Dateline, etc. I'm sorry but potential fuel leaks, potential failed seat belts, and who knows what next is finally starting to bug me. In my first van, it was the opening rear hatch. If I still had my second van, it would be the fuel rail leak and weak seat belts. In my present van, it's the potential fuel leak in a crash and the weak rear seat belts.
I may like Chrysler, which I still do, (I've had 3) but I'm finally getting a LITTLE tired of Chrysler that after nearly 20 years in the business, their vans are still popping up with little problems, not to mention all the potentially deadly problems that have and still are surfacing. Who knows what next will be found potentially deadly or wrong on the Chryslers? It seems there is always something newly found wrong with them when talked about in the news and such.
The point is, while yes I've praised my last two vans for their reliability (for my family), luxury, and utility, there are still the blaring facts that Chrysler does not put out the safest minivan it could be and after 20 years, you'd think they'd be able to come up with at least a van that could hold their passengers in a crash. (Yes, I know, there aren't any hard facts right now about that, but when was the last time a Toyota or Honda was accused of somehting as deadly as that) Call it media hype, whatever, it's starting to get to me.
The Acura MDX has all the space we need, a navigation system, Honda reliability/safety, comparable luxury (I can live without the power liftgate), and it actually holds its value. It would get my last kid to college well, and I think my wife and I realize that the kids aren't 3 and 8 anymore, and we really don't need another van.
Considering my youngest is 17 with his own car, and we've been driving Chrysler minivans for nearly 15 years, both my wife and me feel it's time for a change...plus my son would actaully drive the new car :-) We'll see...
I like the Honda Pilot, too, for it has a very attractive price and you do get a lot of content. Plus, it is a little larger than the MDX.
Yet after having two fairly loaded T&C's, I've become accustomed to the trip computer, memory, heated seats, etc., that my last two vans have had. I know, it's a big price to pay for those things, but that was the very reason why I never could justify getting the Odyssey. It was too spartan for me :-)
Anyway, I do have to say the MDX has a lot more style flair IMHO than the sorta boxy Honda Pilot. I'll just have to check out this summer and compare the two, becaue I'm pretty sure it will come down to a Honda Pilot or MDX for next year when our lease is up on the T&C.
BTW, leases on new Chryslers I've noticed are NOT attractive at all anymore. I'm probably going to buy my next car, though. Renting a car for 2-3 years is sorta nice, but I want to go back to being able to say I OWN my car.
Yes, I used to contribute here regularly. Not necessarily in a positive way at times.
To add to this conversation I would like to mention one area both vehicles lack, the spare tire. The best would be a full size internal tire like most sedans.
The T&C has a full size that is kept under the rear. Pain to lower and replace.
The Ody has a internal minispare but no place to keep the old tire.
Couldn't DC make the spare internal? Couldn't Honda increase the area for a full size spare. These vehicles cost between $25,000 - $30,000 and are the largest minivans.
Which of these two are better?
Yes, the minivan is nice for getting kids to college, having already taken one with it, but the Acura MDX is more than suitable. Not only does it have the versatile fold flat seats in both rows, with its the third seat down, it only has 6 cu. ft. less of cargo when the third seat is taken out in the van.
I think I'll do all right. Trust me, my wife and me, while still having good luck, want a change. 15 years with Chrysler minivans has been great, but it'll soon be time for something a little different.
odd1, you are right on about the pickup truck boards. I'm shopping for a truck, and gave up trying to have fun on the Pickups Town Hall. Uptight and defensive, especially when Tundra is brought up.
dave210, you are right on about the MDX. I test drove one when shopping for our Odyssey. If you don't need the extra room, and can spend a few thousand more, I highly recommend it. FWIW, the driver seat is more comfortable than our Ody.
we drove several before we bought and we went back to DC. please note..I am not saying anything negative about any other brand.. I just know my experience and it has been very very positive with DC vans..
I have been concerned over people mixing ody01 and me, odd1, up due to the similar screen names. But, I decided not to change my screen name since I've been using it over a year now.
PS Thats the EX w/ leather that you will want and if you value your family's life, its worth every penny of that 2 grand more.
BTW - for all you T & C fans - Just my 2 cents.
I'd get the Odyssey too if I were you, good move. Sienna is a bit small and you don't want to deal w/ Toyota sales/service either. They are awful.
You need to put -conclusions- to your blurbs.
"Odyssey much more luggage space and more power than DC minivan. DC minivan nice looking. Both much better mileage than some smaller minivan with less power." yeah, and so?????
Chrysler need Magic Seat to tie Odyssey best minivan.
Insignificant differences in gas mileage, magic seats, HP ratings may really be very low on some peoples requirements priorities Just a thought..
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
You also said "while people have made due for 15+ years without it." That could also be said for the lack of padded armrest, or the 3rd zone heating/cooling that Odyssey don't have that the DC fans like to throw up in our face. What you did say that the DC fans backup and I for one am glad to hear is that the quality is getting better and better. Everyone wins on that.
Well done. I have had a 2002 T&C AWD for three months now. You folks did an excellent job. Beautifully assembled. I measured the body seams and the worst fit was off by only 1 mm, most were fractions of a mm off. The trip computer is reporting 19 mpg in suburban driving, better than I expected.
I have wanted a minivan for years, but I did not want to give up the good ride and handling of a modern sedan. This latest generation of Chrysler minvan, as well as the Ody, deliver a sedan driving experience combined with a versatility that no sedan can match.
Please pass on a well done to your fellow workers who are doing such a terrific job. It is appreciated.
Ed
It's not just about a fold down seat my friend. There are lots of other differences between Honda and Dodge/Chrysler. Things like engine horsepower, 5 speed transmission, independent suspension, 4 wheel antilock disk brakes, side air bags, etc. Most importantly, there's the resale issue. Like it or not the van will be worth something whenever you decide to sell it. While build quality may be coming up on some vehicles (I'd rather not call them domestic, or U.S. autos because last time I checked, there really aren't any true domestics any more, especially with Diamler Benz in the ownership seat) it still is not enough to support higher resale values at any point in the depreciation curve.
Lastly, the magic seat is a nice feature. Hard to grasp if you don't have it, but nice. Ever gone on a trip loaded to the max with your seat out, only to wish you had it in once you got to your destination? Ever gone to a store and on the spur of the moment decided to buy something that wouldn't fit in the back with the seat in there? Ever had to lug that seat out of there and pretend it's really no big deal? Features and options while nice to have, don't necessarily appeal to everyone in the same level of intensity. That's why there's a minivan out there for everyone!
does anyone have data on the 0-60 time and the passing on the new Ody and the DC?
As for magic or non magic, it really depends on the situation that occurs the most in order to pick which vans is a better fit. If the van will carry 5 passengers all the time, I guess the magic seat or the bench seat in DC will lose its edge.
There were many who said back in 2000 that the Chrysler 3.8 while only making 180hp was comparable to the 210hp 3.5 on the Odyssey. And they were right. While the old and new Chrysler 3.8 is less refined than the Ody 3.5, they produce more torque at lower RPMs than the Ody which really gives it an edge and they don't have to work as hard for it either.
Granted, I have never driven a Honda Odyssey with any of the newer engines. But from my experience with my friend's 2001 Accord EX coupe 4 cyl and review's I've read, I can say with certainty that you have to really steep on a Honda VTEC engine to make it go. Personally, I would rather take it easy on the RPMs with an engine (like Chrysler's) that might not be as sophisticated and refined but doesnt have to roar to 3,500 to 4,000 RPMs to really get going when I want it to.
MY 2001 Odyssey 210 HP @ 5200 RPM. 229 Torque @ 4300 RPM with Redline 6200 RPM.
2002 Chrlyser also need higher RPM than 2000 Chrlyser. 2002 3.8L 215 HP @ 5000 RPM with Redline 6500 RPM (Chrylser brochure) vs 2000 3.8L 180 HP @ 4300 RPM with Redline at 6000 RPM.
2002 3.8L 245 Torque @ 4000 RPM vs 2000 3.8L 240 Torque @ 3300 RPM.
According to brochure dash photo, 2002 Chrylser higher redline than 2001 or 2002 Odyssey.
Here's the link to the 0-60 times if you don't believe me: http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/20838.htm
If Chrysler engines and transmissions are so incompetent and outdated, why did edmunds determine the engine performance of the 01 T&C was better than that of the 01 Ody? In fact, the comparison test also determined that the transmission of the Town & Country also tied the performance of the Odyssey's. I would not surmise from the results of the test that the Odyssey outperforms the Town & Country with its fancy, high reving VTEC engine.
Not only did the Town & Country either beat or tie the Odyssey in engine and transmission performance but it also beat the Odyssey in the categories of suspension and tire performance, steering, and most importantly...the fun to drive factor.
bdaddy, I'd love to race just for kicks. I know the 3.3 in our van would run out of breathe much sooner than your fancy VTEC engine, but prepair to be beaten off the line and probably all the way to 35mph. The good ol' reliable 158hp Chrysler 3.3 V6 makes alot of its power early in the RPM band.
In closing, here is a little article for you DC bashers out there on Chrysler reliability. According to this article found at Detroit Auto News the Dodge Caravan is rated as the second best reliable minivan in the category. It looks like its getting harder and harder for DC bashers to play the reliability card when bad mouthing Chrysler...
Heres the link...
http://www.detroitnews.com/2002/insiders/0205/14/insider-486681.htm
-Adam-
"Has anyone heard about Differntial Bearings problem in 2001 model. My Odyssey started having transmission problems and started leaking fluid. I took it to a dealer and found the problem in Differential Bearings inside the casing along the axle. The dealer recommended replacing the whole tranny - estimate $5100. I took my odyssey to a local transmission shop and they also said the problem is in Differential Bearings. My mechanic also told me that he just got another Odyssey with the same problem. I wonder if this is a common problem for 2001 odyssey?"
I doubt this would happen, but even if it would, your lead would last all of 2 maybe three seconds.
I owned an Acura Integra with a 1.8L DOHC. The engine loved to be revved. Mine saw redline hundreds of times. I sold that car with 150,000 miles on it - original clutch, no major problems. The only thing I ever did to it outside of routine maint. was replace a door handle after an ice storm and an air conditioning relay under warranty. I agree with dmathews, the Chrysler powertrain without significant mods. would blow up at higher horsepower/higher revs. Again 4adodge, you really should drive the vehicles you are comparing so you have a basis for comparison and not merely conjecture and hearsay.
Transmission problems have yet to be seen on 02 models. If you're comparing 01 models I'd suggest you also look at crash test data. Your D.C and T&C didn't fare so well. Safety is an important factor in minivan purchase rationale.
The Detroit News article you posted refers to initial quality. It's easy to confuse that with reliability, but they are not the same. Most products have a "bathtub curve" of defects. They start high, drop, level off for some time, then steadily increase again. Ideally, you hope to measure the initial rate for new car buyers concerned with defects from assembly and such. You'd also like to know the failure rate when it increases later in life, for those who keep their vehicles a long time. That's where CR and the JD Power Dependability surveys come in to play. If you want to talk reliability, you can find those results at their websites. If you're really interested in determining how common a particular problem is, I suggest you create a scientifically designed survey, and send it to hundreds of randomly selected owners of each of the vehicles you compare. Anecdotal responses from forums or mechanics have little if any statistical value.
As for acceleration, the 2002 AAA Auto guide posted these numbers for 0-60 times:
2002 T&C with 3.8L 215 HP V6: 9.8s
2002 Odyssey with 240 HP 3.5L V6: 8.5s
For 2001, from CR for 0-30, 0-60, and 1/4 mile:
2001 GC with 3.3L V6: 3.8, 11.4, 18.5
2001 Odyssey with 215HP V6: 3.7, 9.9, 17.6
Motor Trend had these 0-60 and 1/4 mile times:
2001 GC ES 3.8L V6: 9.7, 17.2
2001 Odyssey EX 3.5L V6: 9.6, 17.2
1996 T&C LXi 3.8L V6 auto: 11.0, 18.1
1995 Odyssey LX 2.2L I4 Auto: 10.3, 18.3
This topic came around once before, and I ask the same question again. Do you have any data to support your claims from any print or online source, or are you just guessing? Do you have the HP and Torque curves for both models, or just a static point for the peak numbers which are relatively meaningless?
Personally, acceleration numbers don't impress me when I'm making a purchase much at all, unless it's really pathetic, which doesn't appear to be the case for either model. My pride won't be injured when you find a source that shows the 2002 T&C besting the Odyssey by 0.3s in 0-30 or 0-60 times....
Many here try to belittle my comments by saying I haven't driven an Odyssey which gives me no credibility. However, I would be willing to bet many of the DC bashers here haven't driven a new DC van with the 3.8 engine either. It goes both ways.
dmathews3, I'll keep those padded armrest inside the vehicle for now. I know they must seem expendable to an Ody owner like you who is not familiar with the simple luxuries and amenities offered on Chrysler vans.
As for racing, bdaddy already offered. I'll pass, in the name of safety... You're welcome to have bragging rights as to how the vehicles "feel". Until you accept bdaddy's offer of the race, I prefer to go by the book numbers for sake of any arguement.
My post was not meant to belittle you at all. I haven't driven any 2002 Chrysler product, and really don't much care one way or the other. But if you're going to debate the point, the published numbers do a lot more than guesswork. In a similar regard, I'll stick with published crashworthiness figures over hearsay, too. Others prefer to justify their choices by claiming their vehicle is better than crash tests indicate because they've seen real-life tested ones in junkyards or whatever. To each their own.
Cheers!
You're missing the point 4adodge. 4 "probablys" in one paragraph. Now that's conjecture. That's as bad as a post I saw on the Kia Sedona vs. Odyssey board where the poster said 'the Odyssey might Be faster, but the Kia just FEELS faster.' Wow! I'm not going to get into the merits of a faster vehicle anymore either, unless you show up at my door with pink slip in hand. I didn't buy my van for it's speed or lack there of. I just wish people would post facts and not feelings when making comparisons. Just remember, the best vehicle is not necessarily the one your dad owns. Live with a few vehicles for a while and you'll have a better basis fo comparison. BTW - I did drive an 02 DGC with the 3.8. It was a nice van, but I made my decision based on a lot of factors and in the end, could not rationalize the purchase of the Dodge.