Questions About Auto Insurance and Accidents

sableowner2 · June 2002

I was recently involved in a fairly serious accident. At an uncontrolled intersection I attempted to make a left turn--the vehicle coming toward my had his right signal on. When I had already started to turn left I realized he had passed the cutout to make a right turn and was going straight. We collided head on. I think my car might be declared a wreck even though it is fairly new ('98 Sable) and w/decent mileage. Both airbags deployed, the windsheild was cracked, the bumper needs to be replaced along w/one head light unit and the hood. I also think the radiator was punctured bc when I went to the towing company's lot today there was fluid leaking over both front tires. In addition to this damage the front quarter panels seem damaged and I think one of the front wheels is bent. The KBB Retail Value for the car is about $11,800. The KBB Trade in Value is about $8,000. I am assuming the "Fair Retail/Market Value" will be somewhere in the vicinity of $9,500. Assuming this is the case will the car be totaled? If so how long does it take for me to receive the check? I almost hope they declare the car a wreck bc I have heard horror stories about cars that never run right after being involved in a serious accident. But at the same time I would not be looking forward to waiting for a check to arrive and searching around for another Sable. Any response would be greatly appreciated.

kinley · June 2002

What is the salvage value? You are making claim under your own policy are you not? "Within a reasonable period of time" to settle with you could be up to three months. Sorry you were faked out by a turn signal.

sableowner2 · June 2002

Just spoke w/adjustor today--someone will examine the damage tomorrow and they should have a decision by Monday. She also said if they decide to total it I will receive a credit for MA sales tax--I hadn't even thought about that. My only concern is how much $ I would receive for the car--I kept my car in flawless condition (well not anymore...) and it was fully loaded. Well all I can do is hope for the best...

kinley · June 2002

If it is totaled.

alexb757 · July 2002

As the innocent party (got rear-ended)in an auto accident, my car has been repaired and is back on the road.
Prior to any work being done on it, I switched from the other party's carrier to our own for a variety of reasons. I am happy with the repair work but by going with my own ins. carrier, have had to swallow our $500 deductible, plus I have a small (<$50) car rental claim as our ins.company only covered $15/day.
When I asked my insurance they said that they will subrogate our deductible but we can claim any other out-of-pocket expenses directly with the other insurance company.
My question is this: how long will this subrogation normally take & can I expect to get all of my deductible back?
I should add that the original estimate was for $200 MORE than by going with my own shop/ins.company and we did not rent a car for the whole time that ours was off the road. Thus, in the final analysis we actually saved the guilty-party's insurance company some money. I think most people would consider these very reasonable expenses & we do have receipts , of course.
Thanks.

kinley · July 2002

Present the car rental bill and any other accident related bill to the adverse carrier as well.

Kirstie_H · July 2002

A reporter is looking to interview an accident survivor who was injured because he/she wore his/her seat belt the wrong way, and a back seat rider who didn't wear a seat belt and then injured riders who were wearing theirs. Responses from New England are particularly welcome. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com by Thursday, July 25 with basic details if you have a story to share.

sjg35 · August 2002

mia, i read this column w some interest since i just had an accident w a progressive driver who admitted fault in the accident. i have been dealing w the progressive adjustor who has been v helpful although we are at a crossroads in that the extent of damage of my infiniti g35 was more than initially estimated approx $6500 now more like $12-15000 b/c ripples and bends seen across the frame where car was hit in back door and rear panel. now i am hoping they will "total" car. it was only a month old and perhaps with 1000 miles. she wants to see my bill of sale(i had trade in and a billing statement for new g35). she states it is v hard to get parts for new model and harder to make estimates since experience is so low. although i am not dealing w a progressive repair shop, they have a good and honest reputation, and had to call the adjustor out again after they dismantled the outer damage and took out the rear seats. any helpful comments or advice?
i sustained only minor injuries(will not pursue, nor will i pursue "diminished value" if they decide to repair since this is not recognized in the state of florida). rumor is that progressive is "tight" but i think they have been responsive and thus far, fair in my estimation.

kinley · August 2002

you got. That would tempt her to duplicate the price shown for the new one and without a trade it may not be possible to get such a deal again.
Deduct 10 cents a mile and that is the extent of wear and tear on your new g35. Shop for a replacement ASAP and Good Luck.

im_brentwood · August 2002

Tell her to look up MSRP on a new one... those are selling, nationwide, for an average of $280 off of MSRP at the moment (I.E. most places they go at full pop).

If it is fixed, I would also want about $4,000 in compensation for diminished value.

Bill

sjg35 · August 2002

in reply to above, unfortunately inherent diminished value as a concept was ruled invalid by the florida supreme court in june. if only i had the accident a few miles north of here in georgia where they do reimburse for diminished value.

the infiniti dealer will sell me a new g35 at the same price i bought the original. i don't know how i would get around not giving copy of bill of sale to the adjustor when she specifically asked for it. i don't want to make a profit off of this affair, but neither do i want to be in the hole for something that wasn't my fault.

the salesman at infiniti did try to show me current showroom g35s w more options, intriguing??

thanks for the comments.

im_brentwood · August 2002

Crap.

I'm in FLorida. I'd say then sue the guy that hit ya (Assuming you were not at fault) for the diminshed Value. That's the first I have ever heard of it and it STINKS.

Bill

bolivar · August 2002

..bill include a new clause that says they no longer pay for diminshed value.

I'm in Oklahoma.

kinley · August 2002

avoid paying DV under their Liability portion to a 3rd party. DV is as valid as "loss of use" in FL and Jeb should know better. Sue em.

im_brentwood · August 2002

(did I SAY that?) with Kinley.

SUE them. If you get hit, you DO have DIminished Value. Try to trade that G35 in to me with paintwork all over it, and I can assure you that we will wholesale it and the car will take a beating. Ergo, its' value is lower.

Sue them if you have to...

Bill

sjg35 · August 2002

i agree with the concept of diminished value(inherent), but it is null and void as a legal concept in the state of florida. i have already discussed with an attorney familiar with recent ruling.
i think progressive will probably try to fix the damage since this is most likely the most cost-effective measure. i would like a new car, but i don't think they will be that generous.

im_brentwood · August 2002

I must call my atty on this one in the morning.

This is NUTS

sjg35 · August 2002

progressive made a decision to "total" the car, but i am probably out $1000 for 2 mos use and 3000 miles. if i buy at the same price, i would be paying over msrp for a new vehicle. is this fair??? i understand that the vehicle has depreciated, but i suffer a loss in an accident that wasn't my fault.

CarMan@Edmunds · August 2002

That's great, sjg35. Even though it is terrible that you were in such a bad accident, having your car totaled is much much better than having extensive repairs done on it without any compensation for diminished value. Thanks for taking the time to keep us all informed. Are you going to get another G35?

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sjg35 · August 2002

i think progressive did a pretty good job in resloving this accident. i went to the dealer yesterday and he was unwilling to negotiate a lower price for me, though he was willing to go with the price he sold the car to me originally(about $7-800 off msrp). i can tool around in my miata a little, see what the new honda accord and z car looks like, try the rsx-s again, but still leaning towards purchase of g car. i don't think i can wait for the rx8...styling just doesn't grab me.
ciao

kinley · August 2002

I don't think the I R S enables a deduction this low. When I retired I think they allowed 39 cents a mile so only taking 33 sounds good to me.On top of the car's value, Progressive owes you for the pro rata balance of license and part of the vehicles value is any sales tax as well. Good Luck with your next purchase.

sjg35 · August 2002

kinley: progressive would not pay for administrative fees that included the licensing(my dealer charges $269), but they did give monies for the sales tax. they also use a different formula instead of 33 cents a mile, which would have been to my disadvantage as explained to me by the adjustor. when i called my own insurance to get some guidance, they told me what i was getting probably couldn't be appealed since i was getting more than if i had taken the car off the showroom floor and tried to sell it. i guess one can look at it from different viewpoints, and while i didn't get all i wanted some consider me lucky things turned out as well as this did.

kinley · August 2002

you can't buy a new car without paying the fees, $269, just as you can't buy or repair a car without paying the sales tax. Administrative fees and licensing are expensed to the cost of the car and as such Progressive is obligated to pay that also. I'm curious to know which state you were involved in the crash. Check with that state's Insurance Commissioner. Progressive can always issue a "Supplemental Draft".

izzy300 · August 2002

I've just recently been in a car accident. The other party made a left hand turn trying to turn into a grocery store parking lot, and did not see me driving down the street. He turned right in front of me and I hit him on the side of his car. There was a police report and he was given a ticket.

Now the damages to my car were enough to render my car undrivable and I had to get it towed. I've been without my car for 2 days now and I'm getting very irritated. I finally got a hold of the adjuster today and told him my side of the story. He says that he must talk to the other person before he can establish liability. Meanwhile I'm out a car and with no rental. How much longer will this whole process possibly take??? Also as we were ending our conversation he made a comment that the accident might be "a little bit your fault and a lot his fault." What the hell does that mean? How can it be my fault for driving straight down the street? The other guy got the ticket, doesn't that clearly establish it as his fault? Also does anybody know if I can get diminished value in Oklahoma? The car is only a year old, and it's an import luxury vehicle that's still worth quite a bit.

His little comment that it could be a little bit my fault has me very irritated to say the least.

kinley · August 2002

be to some percentage at fault. The only thing you might have done is leave skid marks indicating you were speeding, thus causing you to be comparatively negligent. If you don't have any injury to your body and we're talking about only your car, the adjuster's case load is like this. First he deals with deaths, Second he deals with injuries to people, and Lastly he may get around to property damaged. If I were you, I'd take my car to the shop of my choice and begin repairs. Then I'd rent a car and keep track of the costs. Just because a cop gave the other guy a ticket doesn't mean he gave you a clean bill of innocence. The cop doesn't decide the insurance company's problem. So if you were not injured, you are involved in a third rate claim and should be pro active as suggested. As for the diminished value, check with your state insurance commissioner office. If it is a high mileage vehicle diminished value is diminished. And while communicating with the insurance commissioner ask if your state is a "Comparative Negligence" state. If you are determined to be 20 percent "at fault" you could be liable for 20% of the other guy's injuries and property damage. As such, report this to your company ASAP.

izzy300 · August 2002

I wasn't driving very fast, and the impact wasn't hard enough to set off my air bags. It was rush hour traffic and there was a red light ahead, so I wasn't going to go barreling towards the stop light and come to a lurching stop. The other driver was driving east, and I was heading west. He was trying to make a left hand turn into a store parking lot, and tried to gun it and make the turn across 3 lanes. Unfortunately I happened to be in the far right lane, and he claims that he did not see me. I certainly did not see him until the very last second.

My car is a 2001 Lexus IS300. I've only had the car for a year, and the damage estimate isn't going to be pretty. I will need a new hood, bumper, radiator, headlights (these cost $1100 each!), the frame will need to be straightened, and who knows what might be damaged in the engine. We had just paid off the car in May as well. We are considering trading in the wreck to the dealership as well as the check given to us to repair the damages, bite some losses and just get a new car. All in all this sucks.

kinley · August 2002

see what your collision carrier will do for you. You could be ahead using your collision coverage and paying up to a $500 Deductible. After your company subrogates against the other company, you get your deductible returned to you. No way will you drive a frame damaged car, right? A $12,000 repair job is going to take over two months so you are better off driving the new one now. Good Luck to you.

artz4 · August 2002

My 18 yr old niece was hit from behind a couple days ago, the guy admitted fault at the scene and we got an estimate the next day. The problem we have is that because of her age she can't drive a rental car, since she travels an hour to and from work everyday, taking a taxi will likely cost more then her daily pay. What options do we have, is the other guys insurance responsible for lost wages if she can't get to work? She has already taken her vacation this year so that is not an option and she only has two sick day's available. The body shop said as it stands now it will be at least a week to repair the damage, although they wont know for sure until they open the trunk and see if there are additional damages. I am concerned that she may get fired if she has to call out for that long. We are located in New Jersey, if anyone has any advise it would be appreciated. BTW - She does not have full coverage on her car.

CarMan@Edmunds · August 2002

Artz4, if you are willing to help your niece out, you could always let her drive one of your cars and rent one yourself to drive and have her pay for it. This would allow everyone to have transportation.

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artz4 · August 2002

She's 18 and I drive a Mercedes, as much as I love her...No way :-)

CarMan@Edmunds · August 2002

Ahhhhh, very good point, artz4. The fact that you drive more car than one would want to lend to a teenager who just got into an accident did pop into my head after I made my last post. Have your niece call around, you may find that there actually are rental car companies that will rent vehicles to younger drivers with some sort of additional surcharge. If I recall correctly the age of 25 or so is the cutoff for normal rental car rates, but I have heard of people who were younger than that (in their early 20's I believe) who were able to rent with at a higher rate. Perhaps this will work in this situation.

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izzy300 · August 2002

Farmers Ins has me livid right now. We got the estimate from the body shop for $10,900 worth of damages. BUT Farmers refuses to proceed with my claim because they still haven't heard from the other party (ie their insured.) They said they've called and left him 2 messages but he hasn't returned their calls. OF COURSE he's not gonna call them back, he knows he's totally at fault and I just got a copy of the police report and it couldn't be more clear who was at fault. He was given the ticket, the police report says that he "Failed to Yield" and made an "Unsafe left turn." I faxed the police report to Farmers, the adjuster still wants to wait and hear from the other guy. Now on to the beauty of the situation. Most likely the guy only has liability insurance, and most likely he's only covered for the legal minimum of $10,000. Which means it will not be enough money to cover the repair of my car, nor enough to pay for my rental. My car has sat at the body shop for a week now and work has yet to begun on it. We will most likely have to place a claim through our insurance and have them subrogate against Farmers. So my question is, if we do this will our premiums go up? Should I take the other guy to small claims court if Farmers finally comes around and make him pay for anything that his insurance does not cover?

traindriver · August 2002

Sorry about your accident. I had a similar problem 2 years ago. I am not an ins. agent or adjuster but this may be helpful:

1. had same problem as you with the other party not returning calls. The ins. co. had to send a letter to the other party stating that they must pay the claim as "izzy300 and the accident report indicates that you are at fault and since we can not contact you, we must pay the claim as it has been presented to us...blah...blah...blah"
Ask them to send a letter---I am not sure what this is called in ins. lingo but it was the last ditch effort in getting the other party to acknowledge the accident.

2. In South Carolina, my insurance did not go up when I subrogated my claim. I took it upon myself to rent a car using my credit card with the expectation (hope) of eventually being reimbursed. I personally did not have rental coverage on MY POLICY, so my insurance company could not/would not include the rental in the subrogation claim----I had to pursue that myself through the other insurance co. It took about 6 months---but I was reimbursed.

3. Presumably, the other party had enough liability coverage to cover my damages so I can not speculate on that part of your problem. Perhaps your insurance will have to cough up some $$$ regardless of how you persue the claim.

All in all, I was pleased with my subrogation. At least it will get the ball rolling and get your car fixed or replaced. I would immediatley call my insurance company and at least advise them of the situation and talk with a subrogation guru and ask him/her some of the specific questions that you have posted in this forum.

manamal · August 2002

Go to your ins co. (assuming you have collision). They will subjugate the claim, and (asusming what you said is correct), your rates should not go up, and you will (eventually) recover your deductable.

Also, if you have un./under insured coverage, and the other driver is at fault but coverage does not pay all the damage, that ins. will cover you.

kinley · August 2002

Using your insurance will not increase your rates.

You can ask the adverse company what the limits of Liability are on his policy.

Primary evidence the other guy is at fault. Thus, the adverse company is obligated to rent a car for you from the getgo.

You are going to have to be pro active in this case.

anonymousposts · August 2002

Here's my story. I just bought a 2002 Civic SI on July 27th. Today on my way home from work I was heading west bound at about 40MPH on a 4-lane road (2 lanes in each direction + 2 left hand turn lanes). As I approach the intersection a later model Grand Am making a left hand turn fails to yield and I plow into the side of her car. The impact spun me around approx 180 degrees. It set off my airbags, it pushed the engine into the exhaust (you could see the pipe along the bottom of the car was bent), it pushed the passenger side wheel into the fender, and the radiator was busted. It looks like the ABS system, electrical, and and since it's FWD and with so much movement of the engien the tranny may also be a question. And since it's a new Honda the intake is on the front of the engine, which no longer exists, so that was probably affected as well. The car had less than 1600 miles on it. Luckily I walked away without a scratch. The other drivers were taken to the hospital but I assume they were minor injuries.

My question is how severe does the damage have to be for the car to be unrepairable? Since the engine was obviously impacted in the accident, is the engine something that they can replace? With this kind of damage what chance do I have of getting a replacement because I just wouldn't be comfortable with the car anymore.

kinley · August 2002

about anything including the engine. There are a lot of questions to be answered and speculation is all we can come up with at this time. Just go get a new car and work out the details afterwards. Good to know you were not seriously hurt. At the right time, tell the adverse insurance company to issue you a draft for the cost of your replacement. When you get a new car now, they don't have rental expense to pay while they figure it out. The potential rental expense should balance out any depreciation they might mention. Be pro active.

anonymousposts · August 2002

I went and took another look at the car and took some pictures and I don't see any way they can NOT total this car. The engine was pushed back at least 3" into the firewall, it pushed the exhaust back enough to knock my rear bumper out of line, and all of the electricals surrounding the front and passenger side of the engine are pretty much toast. I have kept in touch with her insurance company and they said that they have left 2 messages and she has yet to call them back. I just don't feel comfortable dropping another $18,000 for a car when this one isn't settled yet. We have 2 other cars so a rental car can be put off until they talk to her.

kinley · August 2002

24 hours to communicate with you and her insurance company. Otherwise she will be on the hook for your attorney's expenses plus his actions that will amaze her. Send a copy to her insurance adjuster and your attorney.

mackabee · September 2002

What kind of settlement should one expect for "pain and inconvenience"? Wife was in a 4 car pile up on a busy street. She was rear ended by a 21 year old who "fell asleep" at the wheel. He says he was doing 40 miles per hour when he hit her. She was in stop and go traffic. Everyone else involved were doing 5mph, her car was totaled, air bag went off as she hit the car in front of her, and the car in front of her hit the car in front of her. Only persons injured were my wife and the kid that hit her. She's been out of work for three weeks now and will probably be out for 2 more. Cuts and abrasions, and airbag burns to her face, bruised arms and shoulders, and she suffered a concussion. Still get dizzy to this day. She's terrified to drive. Kid's insurance co. calling every other day pressuring us to settle but have not made an offer. We consulted an attorney but have not engaged one yet. I was advised by a friend of mine (vp of an insurance co. here) to wait until their insurance makes offer then get attorney or try to settle ourselves without one. What is your take on this?

Mackabee

kinley · September 2002

she deserves all she can get. Question ?? How in the world does the kid know how fast he was going when he says he was asleep? Do whatever is necessary to get him off the road for life. What are the outstanding warrants on him?

mackabee · September 2002

Thank you for your quick response. I was out for the weekend and just got back today. The accident information exchange sheet said he was doing 40 mph. According to him he had been at work the previous night and did not get enough sleep and fell asleep at the wheel. I'm getting a copy of the police report. His insurance co. is Deerfield which is handled by Allstate. I figure he is high-risk and probably has bad driving record already. My wife is now having to go to physical therapy also. She is not a happy camper and is really stressed. Has not worked in 3+ weeks and she is going to have a hard time getting time off from work to go to therapy sessions. I will be getting in contact with an attorney tomorrow that was highly recommended to me by a friend as the kid's insurance co. stated we would get the same settlement whether we had an attorney or not.

: )
Mackabee

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2002

Hi everyone. Sorry to interrupt, but a journalist has made the following request to our PR department and I thought that this would be a great place to post it. Those who are interested in a little fame please feel free to contact the necessary individuals...please note that Edmunds.com is not responsible for providing any sort of protection from the groupies that this new found fame brings you

.

"A magazine journalist is looking for the following:

-People who have gotten dropped by their insurers
-People who have spouses that are causing their insurance rates to go up.
-People dealing with how to insure their teenage drivers
-People who learned the hard way not to report a lot of piddling little claims, like bumper dings or windshield cracks, to their insurance companies

If you'd like to be interviewed for this story, please respond with a synopsis of your experience no later than Thursday, September 12 to jfallon@edmunds.com."

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forester13 · September 2002

My wife's beloved 1996 Chevy Cavalier (mint condition, 50,000 mi.) was rear-ended by a woman in an SUV who admitted not paying attention, apologizing all over the place, etc.

Rear of car crushed.. everything from rear wheels forward looks okay... body shop says its a total loss.

Value of our car approx $5,200.. wife wants to get it repaired for total of approx $2,000 additional.

But I'm concerned about salvage cost I must pay Prudential.. plus hassle of getting salvage title, new inspection, re-build title, Prudential says will not allow any further collision coverage on this car.

Also.. can I go after other party's insurer for the extra $2,000 expense to bring the car back to pre-accident condition?

stinkypinky · September 2002

And you should also go after them for diminished value, if you choose to get the car fixed. Others in here can better tell you how to do that.

anonymousposts · September 2002

I wouldn't want the car back after it was salvaged. I was elated when the other party's insurance company told me they were going to total my 2002 Civic. Sucks to get a car that new back when it's been wrecked.

kinley · September 2002

Salvage value possibly $2,000. Pru gets that while you get the $5200. No insurance company is going to finance her love affair with the car & with it being almost 7 model years old with 50,000 miles, diminished value is not even in the discussion. A replacement car is to be considered and kiss the Cavalier bye bye. The good part is wife person is not injured and that's the important part of the situation.

bolivar · September 2002

Come on now, you and the wife think about this more clearly.....

Get your money and buy a much better car.

forester13 · September 2002

I'm taking the $5,100 from Prudential.. wife just saw the new 2003 Blue Cavalier and loves it.. goodbye totalled car.. thanks for all the smart words..

michaellno · September 2002

7 weeks ago, my wife and I bought a '98 Chevy Tracker for $8K for our son to drive. A week ago Tuesday, said son rolls car 3 times while negotiating a corner on a dirt road at a high rate of speed. No major injuries (son, daughter and friend were in the car at time of accident).

Here's my question: I've faxed in the bill of sale to my insurance company; what are my chances of getting the whole $8K back (minus the deductible, of course)?

Please, no comments about overpaying for the car in the first place (price was a bit above Edmunds TMV) or son's driving ability (he had license all of 5 weeks when accident occurred). We're all just glad that no one was seriously hurt.

Thanks in advance...

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