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Toyota Matrix vs. Mazda Protege5
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Comments
I know, I am going to test drive the P5 when I have time to test drive the P5 and finish my story...
Specs...
* Base Number of Cylinders: 4
* Base Engine Size: 2.4 liters
* Base Engine Type: Inline 4
* Horsepower: 157hp @ 5600 rpm
* Torque: 162ft-lbs. @ 4000 rpm
Where were we?
"P5 under powered? Are you nuts?"
IMO, of course;-)........
As what I said before, I am worried about the durability of those little engines in Matrix. I know Toyota want to use Matrix to aim at those young (Generation X Y or Z or whatever) so they make it more sporty by putting a high rev engine (BTW, I think Toyota did an EXCELLENT job for sound isolation). It would be pretty sporty or quick JUST with the driver (may be one passenger), like the normal load in a Celica. But Matrix is designed to be versatile and carried more people and 'stuff'.
The RAV4 engine should be a good fit, and the MPG should be better too!! (consider the weight difference between those two)
Just my two cents
I think that despite the marketing hype (boy racers), a majority of Matrix will be sold to people who basically want a small, sporty, mini-minivan.
Having to rev the engine pask 6k to get to the horsepower just doesn't suit that buyer.
Just my conjecture.
The reason that I considered XRS is their 4 wheel brakes. That is the only trim level come with rear disc brake... Also, I never own a 6 speed manual...
I find that the brakes are fine even if they're drums in the rear. Since the front brakes do most of the work, and most of us don't do repeated stops from high speed, I doubt there is a significant difference in performance.
Of course, if you absolutely must have a moonroof, or you really love shifting a 6 speed gearbox through traffic, knock yourself out.
Good news: precise steering, short throw shifter (a little rubbery), agile, powerful (feel) engine, decent price, good dash layout, comfortable seat
Bad news: the sales person was a jerk!, ROAD NOISE, less cargo room than Matrix, cramped interior, dated (compared to Matrix) dash design, did I mention road noise and sales person was a jerk?
Overall, P5 is very good, but just not for me. It drives very much like my 92 Honda Civic Si. I drove a lot at hwy speed, Protege 5 is much nosier than the Matrix. To me (just my opinion) that is very important(more head room is a big plus as well). Also it cost more to insure the P5 than Matrix.
Fantasy: Matrix with Acura RSX Type-S engine & 6 speed gear box...... , now we are talking fun & practical......... just a dream
Now, I will agree that the Matrix has a lot more room in it and is very airy with the high roof line (frankly, makes it feel like a minivan to me), and if space is your main concern, then the Matrix should win for you. But let's be fair, that doesn't make the P5 "cramped."
Oh, and I'll take the "dated" P5 dash over the Matrix's faux chrome rings and terrible constrast ANY DAY. Chrome is evil, and why anyone would want it on the dash, glaring up into the windshield, I'll never know.
But yes, the Matrix is quieter, can't argue there. Not a big factor for me, but if it is for you, score one for the Matrix.
I just needed more room, and the Matrix has a lot more room - 53.2 cubic feet of cargo room with the rear seats down. The P5 has only 24.4 cubic feet with the rear seats down. Cargo capacity is very important to me, as I tend to "load up" quite a bit. But of course, it's all relative to what your needs are........
I know I have piled TONS of stuff in my car and when I go recycling (many months worth) on Sat. I will take a picture of the loaded car to show just how big it is back there.
As far as front and rear seat room, I can only say this... I bought the P5 becasue I fit in it in every seat... comfortably. And I am 6' tall and f-a-t. :-) It is also one of the few "compacts" that can fit a rear facing infant seat easily, and without pushing th efront seats way forward.
I've never even sat in a Matrix so I cannot comment on it's room.
Meade
Pat
I do hope you're not an English teacher :-)
On a car note - perhaps the PT Cruiser fits the bill as a competitor too, but most people can't get over its dated and boring looks (I know, there is a contingent of those who thing the opposite is true) and truly pedestrian handling - not to mention legendary (NOT!) reliability that it inherited from the Dodge Neon.
No, I wrote "less appealing" and "futuristic" in reference to the Matrix' appearance when contrasted with the PT Cruiser. When you compare the Matrix with the Cruiser, you gain Toyota reliability, but you lose style points.
"I do hope you're not an English teacher :-)"
I am. I do hope you're not one of my students ;-)
"On a car note - perhaps the PT Cruiser fits the bill as a competitor too, but most people can't get over its dated and boring looks (I know, there is a contingent of those who thing [sic] the opposite is true) and truly pedestrian handling - not to mention legendary (NOT!) reliability that it inherited from the Dodge Neon."
Most people seem fascinated by its retro looks, as I'm seeing more and more of them on the road these days, and Chrysler continues to ratchet up production. And its reliability has had good early returns, as shown in Consumer Reports' string of perfect red targets, although I will admit that long-term durability is a concern. As for truly pedestrian handling, I think that's where the Matrix and Cruiser are perhaps most comparable. Both are tall cargo-friendly wagons that try to mask an unsporty drive with a stylish veneer.
Pat
Maybe it's just me? However, the Cruiser is trying to look like something it is not (a hot rod coach from the 50's)! Yikes it's odd looking and derivative, lol! (Like my grammar Mr. English Professor?)
;-))) Worse yet, it's fancy sheet metal sits on a Dodge Neon's chasis, ugggh!
The Vibe/Matrix seems to be a tad more original and for better or worse, contemporary. I prefer it's styling and admire it's cross-over SUV aspirations. BTW, the Vibe/Matrix rides on a top box Toyota Corolla chassis, does it not?
-lovetrain
Preference is all about personal taste. It is your prerogative to prefer the styling of the Matrix, or any other car, to the PT Cruiser. I do not believe it is a matter of personal taste, however, to assert that the PT Cruiser and the Matrix are comparable vehicles, which is all I have done in this forum.
You wrote, "Maybe it's just me? However, the Cruiser is trying to look like something it is not (a hot rod coach from the 50's)! Yikes it's odd looking and derivative, lol! (Like my grammar Mr. English Professor?)
;-))) Worse yet, it's fancy sheet metal sits on a Dodge Neon's chasis, ugggh!"
I think the disappointment some people feel about the PT Cruiser is that they expect it to be fast only to find that it is not. They want looks, utility, and speed for under $20,000 and are disappointed not to find it. But Chrysler has never marketed the vehicle as a blazer; it is a cruiser. Like the Matrix, it is a space-efficient tall wagon that tries to provide SUV utility on a compact platform with some style.
You wrote, "The Vibe/Matrix seems to be a tad more original and for better or worse, contemporary. I prefer it's styling and admire it's cross-over SUV aspirations. BTW, the Vibe/Matrix rides on a top box Toyota Corolla chassis, does it not?"
One could just as easily argue that the Matrix presents itself as something it is not. It looks sporty, but it is built on a Corolla platform with the same 130 hp Corolla engine. Even the upgraded XRS engine and its 180 hp are not terribly sporty, offering a weak torque curve and no appreciable benefit below 6,000 RPM. Like the PT, it is simply a cargo-friendly tall wagon with some style.
Ultimately, for vehicles that offer such similar qualities, the comparison comes down to style, value, and reliability:
1) Style -- do you prefer retro touches or futuristic styling?
2) Value -- how much do comparably equipped vehicles cost? Looking at the figures, the PT costs more, but dealers are more willing to bargain (check the TMV), and Chrysler is more eager to offer incentives.
3) Reliability -- which car will last? I'd put my money on the Matrix, as Toyota generally and the Corolla specifically have held their quality and their value. Although, these vehicles were made in conjunction with GM and are built in Canada, so it's not as if we're discussing a Japanese car made in a Japanese plant by Japanese workers using Japanese parts. On the other hand, my biggest concern with the PT is that it is a Chrysler, an American car built in Mexico. In its favor, however, Chrysler had the fewest initial defects of any American carmaker according to Consumer Reports, which also described the PT as having "much better than average reliability" illustrated with a string of perfect red targets. And they back that report with a new 7 year / 70,000 mile powertrain warranty to bolster consumer confidence, compared with the traditional 3/36 for Toyota.
In short, they are very comparable vehicles, playing similar roles and providing similar functions for similar dollars. Thus, I think the PT Cruiser, rather than Protege5, is the car with which the Matrix best compares. The Protege5, which I also like, probably competes most directly with the Ford ZX5.
Pat
For what it's worth I think I like the Vibe better than the Matrix for looks. I hate to say it but it's more subdued (except for the front end) The Matrix just looks odd to me.
My personal choice was the Protege5 because I wanted 4 doors and a hatch w/sporty handing and a good price tag. To get hte good handling version of the Vibe/Matrix you had to buy the higher end model. I didn't want/need the plastic cargo area. I don't like having stuff richochet around the interior of my car when I drive with some "zest".
by hardoo
Thank you for validating my right to have fun on my Gateway EV500. Relax my good friend, "it's all good"! ;-)
-lovetrain
By Pat
Pat, I agree with your theory and applaud your common sense. I do not believe Toyota markets the Matrix/Vibe to the "20 somethings"; demographic group. Toyota created the SCION brand to capture that demographic. I trust that most Matrix/Vibe automobiles are sold to 33 to 45 year old couples with smaller families. This segment would shop the Matrix/Vibe tall wagon as an alternative to the higher priced, less fuel efficient Mini-SUV.
-lovetrain
Toyota has Camry, Avalon, and Corolla for the adults. Matrix fits the bill for the crazy kids who know sport coupes and Utes aren't all that. It just so happens that Toyota 's reputation brings the older folks in, too.
Having said that, I see a lot more 35+ drivers in Matrices than P5's. The P5's taut ride requires a young body, or at least a young mind.
Protege5, on the contrary, are almost exclusively driven by younger folks (men & women), from what I've seen on the road around here......
As far as Toyota's Matrix marketing budget, if it is being used to target Gen X and Y,...they surely know more than I. Nonetheless, I'm not convinced a Toyota Wagon with SUV-CROSS aspirations will sell in big numbers to those demographic groups. Popularity with the younger (20-30) group is a hard to pinpoint. The Volkswagen Jetta has "it", the Nissan Sentra doesn't. The Honda Civic has "it", the Toyota Corolla doesn't. The Ford Focus has "it", the Dodge Neon doesn't. I predict, the Mini Cooper will ALWAYS have "it", and Mitsubishi (as bad as they want "it") will never have "it"! "It" is, of course the hip, cool, popular appeal that only the 20-30 demographic can define with their wallet.
-lovetrain
I agree with your "it "list, and add the P5 has so much that it's nuts! The Protege sedan still doesn't have it, although the ES is getting there.
Has Toyota managed to buy "it" for anything? I think not. Certainly, the Matrix does not have the it of which you speak.
VW Beetle: 78,500 vs 65,000
PT Cruiser: 123,500 vs 105,500
(Figures from "Automotive News" site)
I think these numbers show that "retro" designs may be hits their first years out, but they have much less long-term appeal. Probably why only a few automakers have embraced these types of designs.
The VW Beetle prolly is a victim of "limited appeal". I for one was never a fan of living in the past. IMHO, the new VeeDub Bug has a very limited audience. Nonetheless, by most accounts, the VW Beetle is a very competent auto?
Now, maybe it's just me, but the Chrysler PT Cruiser is the perfect example of a "lack of long-term appeal". The expectations for high levels of fun and performance were never really met? Just a Dodge Neon in fancy sheet metal. There is still some hope for the new 2003 PT Turbo Cruiser and the new convertible PT Cruiser.
-Larry
On topic bit.
So do you think they would ever make a convertible Matrix? (GRIN)
No admission from manufacturer until the government released their crash test results...
Sounds like Focus all over again...
I guess I better stick with my ugly Matrix.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Yes, rust is higher on Toyotas, but seriously - how many new cars would rust in 5 years versus 7 or something?
Any other warranty coverage variations that I may not be aware of?
And, oh - Proteges (including the P5) rule, Matrices drool! (in keeping with the juvenile nature of the last few posts)
5/60 on all new Toyotas, as it should be with all cars these days, IMO.
Isn't being juvenile fun occasionally?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Megan
If I remember correctly, Toyota traditionally nickel-and-dimes the buyer for everything, and has some of the weirdest option groupings of all manufacturers - don't know if that's true of the Matrix, though, But I think the P5 options are still somewhat acceptable!