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VW Touareg SUV

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Comments

  • scirocco22scirocco22 Member Posts: 721
    jeff-- According to a current thread over at VWVortex, late summer or early fall 2003.

    --'rocco
  • hschultzhschultz Member Posts: 42
    powered VW SUV over here before we get a diesel version.
  • knockoffknockoff Member Posts: 72
    I have heard bits & pieces that VW dealers may not be up to selling $40,000+ vehicles as far as service is concerned. Any thoughts or experiences?
  • wolfxwolfx Member Posts: 72
    at $40K + per car, you're going up against traditional elite marques that have been perfected their "kissing up" to the customer attitude which VW has never cultivated among their staff; Jaguar, Lexus, MB, BMW, Lincoln, etc... i've been to many VW dealerships, and although they may be better than Honda dealerships, they are a far cry from the elite
  • rjr57rjr57 Member Posts: 7
    The entry into upscale with the Touareg and Phaeton is very important to VW, so I think we can expect some changes in (at least) how owners of these two models will be treated during service. To hedge the bet, I left a deposit on a new Touareg with a combined Porsche/Audi/VW dealer, which has an integrated service facility. These types of dealers will have the necessary experience to deliver the appropriate level of service.
  • poseidonposeidon Member Posts: 30
    I love the idea of/ the specs on the V10 diesel, but it sounds like it may be a ways off. Where does VW stand on hybrid engines? Any rumors of putting one in the T-reg or any other VW platform? Thanks.
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    There is in place a Volkswagen MarketPlace Initiative & a Volkswagen Brand Standards Program... both of which will insure a Sales & Service Experience commensurate with both the
    Touareg & the Phaeton. Dealers who fail compliance will not be handling these products.

    VWAG is developing Diesel products because shortly America will be rid of the filthy diesel we now have available...The Diesel fuel available and standard in Europe is almost drinkable in comparison to the crap US Oil Cos.
    serve up today for us. We have Diesel engine project cars that develop 100+ miles per gallon.
  • poseidonposeidon Member Posts: 30
    Sounds good about the diesel. How soon will be rid of the filthy stuff? What has transpired to cause the sudden change? Just curious.
  • nedzelnedzel Member Posts: 787
    my experience with dealer service on my 2k GTI has been horrible. Took them 7 tries to fix my rear shok-top mounts. "Could not duplicate" is their favorite term. Most recently that resulted in my having to pay to replace coil pack and plug wires (which should have been covered by emissions warranty). Whatever breaks, if they figure out what needs to be replaced, they won't have it in stock. As a result, you can count on at least 2 visits to get anything done.

    They don't have loaner cars on site. Rather, when you get there, they call up Enterprise, which doesn't open up until 8 AM. Enterprise will show up around 8:30, drive you to their office, where you wait in line. If you're very lucky, you're out of Enterprise by 9 AM, so you'll be late to work. And you'll have to leave work early to return the rental car.
  • geoffdgtigeoffdgti Member Posts: 83
    tidester, host, suggests:
    I am sure you meant Plain Old Silly! :-)

    Since most US VW Bugs, Golfs, and Jeddas come from our NAFTA buddies south of the border, POS clearly stands for Product Of Spanish-speakers. If you thought Tequila gave you a bad hangover, try a Mexican-built VW.

    Disclaimer:
    My Brazilian-assembled GTI has been trouble-free. I guess Portugese is a more reliable language than Spanish.
  • geoffdgtigeoffdgti Member Posts: 83
    vwguild writes:
    There is in place a Volkswagen MarketPlace Initiative & a Volkswagen Brand Standards Program... both of which will insure a Sales & Service Experience commensurate with both the
    Touareg & the Phaeton. Dealers who fail compliance will not be handling these products.


    My dealer is in the process of building a brand-new facility. I expect I'll be paying an extra $10/hour to have the exact same mechanic work on my VW. The only difference will be the "comfort level" of the waiting room. I'll now be drinking my watered-down coffee and eating my stale Dunkin Donut (no Krispy Kreme here yet) on a cloth sofa in a color-coordinated room instead of a vinal-covered chair in a cinderblock room. I'm sure the TV will still have 24x7 Oprah.
  • lsclsc Member Posts: 210
    I don't know about VW's reliability or if they have improved, but the build quality sure is top notch. When I helped one of my friends buy a VW Passat, I couldn't help but to notice the impeccable build quality as well as material quality of every single component.

    It sure was a far cry from my fast but hardly well built Altima.

    I don't know how the new Touareg will be in terms of reliability but the interior is about as luxurious as anything I've seen. Plus, it sure feels good to know that it's chassis is shared w/ none other than a Porshe. Pretty high structural standards, don't you think?

    The new FX45 may be another alternative, but I like the VW approach. Infiniti is trying to make everything sportier - they think this is their niche...so you sacrifice something to get something else. i.e. ride quality for top notch handling, so you have to compromise.

    VW is using the old Honda method - see what the competition has to offer and just make the car/suv equal or better in all aspects w/ no weakspots. Kind of nice to know when you are spending your hard earned money, that you are getting more for your money w/ little or no compromise.
  • geoffdgtigeoffdgti Member Posts: 83
    lsc writes:
    I don't know about VW's reliability or if they have improved, but the build quality sure is top notch. When I helped one of my friends buy a VW Passat, I couldn't help but to notice the impeccable build quality as well as material quality of every single component.

    The Passat does not get assembled in Mexico.

    I'm hopeful that the Touareg won't suffer from the first year build quality problems of the US-assembled Mercedes and BMW SUVs. Personally, I'd rather wait a year or two and get some history on the design before I take the plunge.
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    www.epa.gov

    Then do a search for *diesel*...
  • knockoffknockoff Member Posts: 72
    Where will the new "T" be built?
  • poseidonposeidon Member Posts: 30
    Thanks for the link re:diesel. The best I can determine is 2006. That's still aways off for me. Do any oil companies voluntarily offer clean diesel now? As for where the T-reg will be built, awhile ago someone in this thread said Germany, but I never confirmed that myself. Perhaps that person can re-post and enlighten us all again.
  • big_guybig_guy Member Posts: 372
    I read an article that states that the Touareg will be assembled in a VW plant located in Bratislava, Slovakia. I don't know if any other VW products come out of the same plant so build quality is unknown to me. I understand the Porsche gets the Cayenne bodies out of the same plant. Just my $.02
  • rjr57rjr57 Member Posts: 7
    Bratislava is a new plant, so there isn't much of a history regarding quality track record. I believe (but not 100% certain) this plant is dedicated to the production/assembly of Touaregs, and the body stamping and chassis of Cayennes (which are ultimately assembled in Leipzig Germany). The Touareg diesel and W-12 may ultimately get final assembly in the new (see-through) Phaeton plant in Dresden, Germany. I'm sure the Bratislava site is very closely monitored by the Wolfsburg brass - it's not that far away. I would expect high quality output. Let's say I hope for high quality output, since I have a deposit on a Touareg.
  • nedzelnedzel Member Posts: 787
    It doesn't matter to me how pretty the waiting room is if it takes the dealer 7 visits to fix my car. What I want is for the dealer to FIX IT RIGHT THE FIRST VISIT!!! Why oh why is this so hard for VW? I can accept that my VW won't be quite as reliable as a Honda. That's ok. What I can't accept is that when things break, the dealer 1) can't diagnose it and 2) doesn't have the parts to fix it once he does.

    Focussing on fancy new showrooms is putting the money in the wrong place. I would much rather that the dealership take the $5M they were going to spend on a new showroom and instead spend that on 1) training service techs, and 2) parts inventory.
  • SporinSporin Member Posts: 1,066
    The Infiniti FX45 and the VW Touareg are really catering to 2 very different buyers.

    The VW is very much a luxury SUV in the truest American sense with some very serious off-road hardware. The off road bits and the traction enhancing devices actually compare almost point-to-point with the new Range Rover.

    I suspect people who cross shop the Touareg will be looking at Volvo XC90, Discovery, and top-of-the-line Grand Cherokees, Pilots, 4Runners, Pathfinder, and the Acura MDX.

    The FX45 is very much a tall super-wagon. 0-60 in 6 sec., 60-0 in 170 ft, .89 g's on the skid pad.... those are super-sedan numbers, but all with more people space. The FX makes no pretense of being an off-road vehicle other then available AWD. 20" wheels, low ground clearance, etc.. it's a road car.

    I suspect people who cross shop the FX45 will be looking at E-class MB wagon, BMW 540i Touring (wagon), and BMW X5

    Both are very cool, but also very different, vehicles.
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    are available in VERY limited quantities
  • allhorizonallhorizon Member Posts: 483
    Who says the Touareg V10 TDI is a Pumpe-Duese? A regular TDI (as the ones currently available in the US) can take the high-sulfur US Diesel fuel. And for an SUV that is classified as a truck, not as a car, emissions regulations are a joke.

    "May be available this year".

    - D
  • knockoffknockoff Member Posts: 72
    hey thanx... all good stuff!
    Yesterday I went to a dealer to get the brochure, 1 dealer here in downtown Salt Lake wouldn't give it out & the other didn't have them. I went south about 40 miles to Orem where the dealer had boxes of them & couldn't believe they wouldn't give them out saying "They're for the public to sell the vehicle". Just wanted to put a plug in for the Orem dealer 'cause he was so nice.

    The brochure is limited in info but really wets my appetite. The info states you can only get skid plates if you get the V8X package (maybe the most expensive). Hope this is not completely true.

    I am concerned about getting good service after I buy one though.
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    These Brochures are "limited" by design...These units will not be here for 5-6 months...Think
    "Marketing"...They have been published to whet the appetite.

    Rest assured...the Dealers that have new MarketPlace facilies and more than one Touareg, ie. a continuing availabilty...will give you top notch service.
  • knockoffknockoff Member Posts: 72
    think???!!! about what????
    All dealers here are saying they will have vehicles in March/April. If they are not wrong that is not 5 months away.
    And I don't know what a new "MarketPlace" facility is. One of the SL dealers I mentioned just built a new place... if that is their new "MarketPlace" then I guess we are terribly lacking here in the "small" market of Utah because the attitude didn't change with the new facility.
  • batuceperbatuceper Member Posts: 4
    I read in one of the UK car magazine reviews that of the 320 VW dealers in the UK, only 40 will get to sell Touaregs.
  • big_guybig_guy Member Posts: 372
    I went to the local auto show over the weekend and was disappointed not to see the Touareg on display. They did have a Porsche Cayenne though. If the interior volume is similar between the VW and the Porsche, there won't be a whole lot of leg room for passengers in the rear seats. The biggest problem with those auto shows is the disconnect the battery so you can't adjust any of the seats. Every one of the power seats on all the vehicles was set all the way back with the seat back tilted back a bit. I don't mind the seat all the way back (I need it that way to fit into the vehicle) but I hate to "lay-down" while driving. It also cuts way down on the seat room behind the driver making it difficult to judge actual room.

    I was also hoping to see a Phaeton there but no such luck.
  • tbrethtbreth Member Posts: 8
    Hi folks, I am from Austria in Europe and had the chance to drive a Touareg V10 Diesel yesterday. I just can say WHOW! The interior is luxury pure as Austria only sells Touareg with leather seats. Additionally the pneumatic suspension is great offroad I must say.

    For any Questions - just post.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Welcome to Edmunds!

    We always love to hear from our European friends!

    tidester, host
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    If you go to www.VWGuild.com and click on any
    picture it will link you to a picture of a New
    MarketPlace facility.

    Production of the Touareg for No. American Delivery begins in April; so the East Coast & parts of the Midwest will get theirs first. Here
    in Ca. we have to wait a bit longer due to shipping time.

    And for big_guy...Power is disconnected and gas tanks are emptied as Fire Protection in closed venues.
  • aubrey4x4aubrey4x4 Member Posts: 11
    VWGuild/Others---Thanks for all the info.; regarding MPG, any city/hwy MPG info available for Touareg V-6, V-8, V-10 TDI ???
  • tbrethtbreth Member Posts: 8
    Here are as follows the Informations regarding fuel comsumption in liter per 100 km as used in Europe. Eventually somebody will be able to transfer:

    city/highway
    V6: 19,1/10,8
    V8: not yet available
    V10 diesel: 16,6/10,8

    Greetings, Tom
  • big_guybig_guy Member Posts: 372
    Using the information provided by tbreth above, the mileage would be as follows
    City/Hwy
    V6: 12/22
    V10: 15/22

    The 12 mpg city number looks a bit suspect but the ratings used in Europe don't always translate to the same figures you see stateside.

    I have seen other report that put the V10 TDI in the 19 mpg city and 24 mpg hwy category.
  • tbrethtbreth Member Posts: 8
    Well, the fuel consumption calculations in Europe are done to some European artificial norm. Anyway, what I read concerning the V6 is that it can consume even more if a pushy driver is using it. As the speed limits in the US are lower than in Europe I suppose, that the official fuel consumptions may somewhat be accurate for the US.

    Generally don't expect a car not drinking when buying a Touareg.
  • poseidonposeidon Member Posts: 30
    Can you give us some more details about your driving impressions for the V10 (and V6 if you've driven it too). I'm sure everyone else is chomping at the bit for more info at this point. Thanks.
  • tbrethtbreth Member Posts: 8
    Okay, well, your wish is my command.
    I have only driven the V10 until now but I do plan to try either the V6 or the R5 TDI which will be available in Austria soon (can already be ordered) and which is my choice of engine (little fuel consumption, sufficient "punch").

    I had the chance to drive the Touareg in an off-road area and a little onroad. (For anybody to know: I am driving a Mitsubishi Pajero, I think its called Montero in the US with a 2,5 liter diesel engine in the short edition)

    First, when you get into this car, you have to admit that VW was able to show quality. Everything is looking, feeling and sounding quality. Seats are covered with cricket leather which is a kind of grainy leather so you wont see those usual cracks in aging flat leather. everything feels fine, except the foot rest for the left foot, as VW has introduced a parking brake activated by foot (as Mercedes has since ever) and the pedal is somehow disturbing when placing the foot, not when resting it. Controls are very self-explaining.

    Driving off-road:
    Well, as the V10 has the air suspension I must say it did not feel too much off road. I am not saying that is good, when really on your way in hard terrain, but it is good for most gravel roads and the Touareg won't see much more off-road. As the front hood is quite high, you don't see the terrain close to the car in front, which I really hated when the terrain was tricky. I heard others say that the view was good. Well I don't know american SUV's but the Montero feels better concerning control over things.
    So closing I would say that the type of off-road usually driven with a car that price and size won't be a problem, harder terrain would not be a problem as for the capabilities of this car, but it doesn't feel good. For that kind of off-road driving take a Wrangler or Hummer.

    On-road:
    Best SUV-feeling I ever had. Even better than X5, except you really like it hard and supersporty. But for most of us that's the driving we want. Only thing to say is that the V10 is pausing some milliseconds before accelerating from 0 as the Turbo-hole is feelable. But afterwards the pressure's on.

    Hust to say how lucky you guys in the US are: the car is cheaper than in Europe and in Austria we do have taxes, you would like to run away. For the Touareg it's 39,2%. So if I can settle for one, it will be the small R5 diesel. And I read that the normal suspension is almost as good as the air suspension, only in fast turns you can feel the difference and on very bad roads.

    So thats it for now, questions welcome,
    Tom
  • tbrethtbreth Member Posts: 8
    when I had my long test drive with the Touareg. But its a very searched for car, I'd say, as a test drive could not yet be arranged.

    Tom
  • tbrethtbreth Member Posts: 8
    A quite good homepage would be www.touareg.at

    Its the Austrian VW-Homepage for the touareg. It should be quite selfexplicatory, even when not german-speaking. At least some Information. There is even a configurator, but be told that the prices do already include all taxes (39,2%).

    Also bear in mind that these are Austrian Touaregs. There are even differences to german ones, as eg in Germany, the V6 is sold without leather and leather as an option.

    Most of the words on the right should somehow be understandable, which will only be really diffcultm when there is a lot of text.

    But there you may find all weights, speeds, consumption, colors and so on.

    Hope you have fun.

    Translation questions german-english can be answered ;-))

    Tom
  • idletaskidletask Member Posts: 171
    has been made by the Belgian magazine "Le Moniteur Automobile". Proof that EPA or EU cycle is very short of reality, they averaged 18.9l/100km with the V6 and 13.5l/100km with the TDI (resp. 12.4 and 17.4 mpg). Note that at the lowest the V6 could not even achieve the V10's average consumption (14.1l/100km minimum). Both cars were not broken in (none had more than 3000 miles). The V10 outperforms the V6 easily, and on average, it is much more adapted to the 2 tons of the Touareg than the V6 is (the V6 has 303 Nm torque at 3200rpm whereas the V10 TDI has... 750 Nm at 2000rpm. Night and day!). Both were equipped with the automatic transmission (the 6 speed ZF found on the 7 series, S Type and new A8, among others).
  • poseidonposeidon Member Posts: 30
    I read somewhere in a US magazine that VW would be offering behind the steering wheel, paddle style shifters (like on the automatic BMW M3) for the T-reg, either this year or next. Do they offer this option in Austria or any other European country? If so can anyone confirm if they will be offered here? Thanks.
  • poseidonposeidon Member Posts: 30
    I hope those mileage conversions/estimations are a bit off. For myself, I might accept 12 mpg from the V8, but not the V6. As for the V10, I really was excited about the prospect of 300+ hp and better than 20mpg. If reality proves to only be 17mpg I may have to reconsider my options.
  • rjr57rjr57 Member Posts: 7
    I have one of the marketing brochures, and the dashboard photo shows a paddle shifter behind the steering wheel on the left side. It's a European model (speedo in km). In the spec inserts that come with the brochure there is no reference to paddles, and there is a disclaimer stating some of what you see in the photos might be different in the U.S models.

    Also, many thanks to our Austrian friend tbreth for taking the time to share his observations. I was wondering if you had any thoughts on the rear seat roominess and comfort level.
  • poseidonposeidon Member Posts: 30
    Yes, thanks to Tbreth and rjr for the quick answers and responses. Much appreciated. Does anyone out there have any personal experiences with driving the v-6 yet? I'm really wondering if this engine has enough get up and go for nearly 2 tons. Thanks in advance.
  • idletaskidletask Member Posts: 171
    Unfortunately, no, my conversions are dead accurate, or else it means that my HP 48GX has fooled me for an incalculable number of years :)

    Remember that these mileages were obtained:
    1. from non broken in vehicles,
    2. in the hand of automotive journalists,
    3. including performance measurements.

    This magazine is dead on when it comes to driving vehicles the way they're normally driven (except for performance measurements - not everybody measures the kilometer from a standstop), and this is why it's my ultimate reference when I look for a car. They obtained a mileage of 29.1 mpg for the 330d but I do 35 with mine, so again it all depends on your driving style.

    And the paltry mileage for the V6 is easily explained: this engine is already a gas pig in other VW models (Phaeton, Golf R32, Passat) and here it has more than 2 tons to move, added to the fact that the auto is constantly hunting gears due to the serious lack of torque.
  • poseidonposeidon Member Posts: 30
    Wasn't suggesting that you couldn't operate a calculator (thanks for that btw).... more like I was hoping for some inaccuracies from the reporting source or someother contributing factors (like you described) that may have contributed to poor mileage figures.

    Now I'm really hoping the V10 comes here and soon.
  • tbrethtbreth Member Posts: 8
    As to the prive list I found on the internet and to the articels I read about the Touareg, yes, the shifters are an option, available to all Touaregs with automatic transmission.

    Concerning roominess and comfort in the second row, I have to say that even behind me ( I ussually sit very far backwards as I am quite big and like to have my legs not crmaped) I could sit in the back seat. I would touch the front seat a little bit but not too much, so I could even sit there for some time. The back row has a center and two side air outtakes which is more than usual. With the 4C air condition the back row can even adjust the temperature individually (but thats an option). So as a conclusion: Very good sitting for two, the third in the middle is a little bit worse, as usual.
  • JBaumgartJBaumgart Member Posts: 890
    I was wondering if the rear seats can be moved forward and back, like the rear seats in some other SUV's. Also, how flat do the fold down when you want the extra storage space?
  • tbrethtbreth Member Posts: 8
    As far is I know (please don't be to angry if wrong because it did not interest me too much) the seats are not sliding.

    Concerning folding down the rear seats as to what I saw from photos they folded down fully and on one photo there was some angle left (not much) so I suppose from the number of photographs that they rather fold down totally.
  • kmhkmh Member Posts: 143
    From what I saw on the VW site, the rear seats folded pretty flat though I don't believe they do have any forward or rear adjustment.
  • zackiedawgzackiedawg Member Posts: 10
    The seats can fold two ways...either dropping the backrest to a near-flat fold...or if flatness is a must, you can remove the headrests, flip the seat portion up, then fold the backrest down giving a full-flat cargo area.

    As for Marketplace dealers...I am one of the lucky ones whose local VW dealers has always been very good, with friendly sales staff and excellent service. A few years ago, they became one of the first Marketplace dealers, and they are quite a bit more than nice sofas.

    Gunther Volkswagen of Coconut Creek has a huge 4-lane wide, 8 bay deep service lane, 40+ bay indoor garage facility for the service department, and beautiful showroom. Sales experience includes receptionist in the center to greet all incoming, coffee and tea bar with cafe tables, and a sales staff with excellent knowledge of every vehicle. They are friendly and courteous. Service is the same, and includes washing your car when serviced, rentals on site for all warranty work, and courtesy vans. They are easily equipped to service $40-$70K cars to a level those buyers will be satisfied with...better than anything I have yet experienced from my local Mercedes dealer or Acura dealer, and at least on par with the best I have seen from Lexus.

    I have driven the Cayenne this past weekend just to get a first taste of the vehicle...it certainly drives more sports-car-like than the Touareg will...but is roomy in all 4 positions, comfortable from the driver's seat, and looks capable off road (again, not as much as the Touareg will).

    For those looking to cross shop X5s, MLs, GX450s, and the like, you will find the Touareg to be a more luxurious vehicle, with more cargo and passenger room than all but the Lexus, and on-road handling and comfort the equal of any of them.

    For those looking to off-road, the Touareg will simply put the others to shame. It is in a league previously reserved for a rare handful of vehicles...Range Rover, Hummer H1, and older Land Cruisers. On vwvortex, I was asked to compare the off-road prowess of the Touareg to the Hummer H2, which is not too likely to be cross shopped by too many people, but has a certain off-road image which makes it appear capable of anything (it is not). It was very interesting to do the research...with information provided by each manufacturer's own spec sheets:

    1) Max ground clearance -
    VW - 11.8”
    H2 - 10.7”
    ADVANTAGE: VW

    2) Max approach angle -
    VW - 28 degrees
    H2 - 40.4 degrees
    ADVANTAGE: H2

    3) Max departure angle -
    VW - 28 degrees
    H2 - 39.6 degrees
    ADVANTAGE: H2

    4) BREAKOVER ANGLE
    VW - 29.4 degrees
    H2 - 25.8 degrees
    ADVANTAGE: VW

    5) Max center ground clearance angles -
    VW - 11.8”
    H2 - 9.4”
    ADVANTAGE: VW

    6) In-cab adjustable tire pressure -
    VW - no (may be optional)
    H2 - no (may be optional)
    ADVANTAGE: DRAW

    7) Locking differentials -
    VW - center and rear separately
    H2 - center and rear separately
    ADVANTAGE: DRAW

    8) Transfer case with high and low -
    VW - yes
    H2 - yes
    ADVANTAGE: DRAW

    9) Visibility while off road -
    VW - excellent (thin pillars, low hoodline, good
    greenhouse area, small frontal section)
    H2 - poor (high beltline, small greenhouse, high frontal
    area, large A, B, and C pillars, poor rear visibility
    ADVANTAGE: VW

    10) Max water fording depth -
    VW - 23”
    H2 - 20”
    ADVANTAGE: VW

    11) Hill descent and ascent controls -
    VW - yes - crawl 36:1
    H2 - yes - crawl 33:1
    ADVANTAGE: VW

    12) Max grade percentage -
    VW - 45 degrees
    H2 - 45 degrees
    ADVANTAGE: DRAW

    13) Max cross grade performance (i.e. sideways on a hill) -
    VW - 35 degrees
    H2 - 37 degrees
    ADVANTAGE: Draw

    14) TOWING CAPACITY
    VW - 7700 Lbs.
    H2 - 6500 Lbs.
    ADVANTAGE: VW
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