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VW Touareg SUV

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Comments

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    The brochure says it has a maximum cargo volume of 31 cubic feet? Is this a misprint? Or without rear seats folded (if they fold flat)?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    What happened to this model? It was listed in the early brochure passed out on the auto show circuit, but is MIA in the current brochure now at the dealers.

    The V8x was an off-road oriented version of the V8 model. It had a full-size rear-mounted spare tire, skid plates, side step bars, and a few other goodies. From what I can see, none of those features are even being offered as stand-alone options.

    Bob
  • ohiosuvohiosuv Member Posts: 33
    Thanks mml7 for you extensive comments! I completely agree. I had the same concerns with the Murano early on as you did. I have become comfortable with the vehicle (whatever it is classified as) over time. I am not sure that I "really like it", but what a price/value deal. I "like" the Murano, but also like the VW somewhat better. I just don't think it's $10K better!

    By the way, what did you end up buying?

    re: rkuehn - you are absolutely correct - VW blew it!
  • buyavwbuyavw Member Posts: 3
    Production for the Touareg V8x model is scheduled to begin the last week in July. So, they should arrive in dealer showrooms 2-3 months later. It will be equipped with everything on a Touareg V8 plus Air suspension, Bi-Xenon headlamps, fender protection, Full-size rear mounted spare tire, rear differential lock, side step bar, and skid plates. Base MSRP for a V8x is $46,165 (including destination). Which means the offroad equipment "exclusive" to the V8x is $1,250. The remaining options available on the Touareg V8, except the 19" Wheels, are also available on the V8x.

    Step bars will be available as an accessory for all models soon, but no plans yet for a dealer-installed, rear-mounted, full size spare.

    Also, I realize the Touareg is not a light-weight, but there may be some advantages to being heavy. The Touareg V6 has a curb weight of 5,086 lbs and a payload (maximum weight of passengers, cargo, and fuel permissible) of 1,400 lbs. These combined equal the Gross Vehicle Weight of 6,486 lbs. Since it is an SUV with a GVW greater than 6,000 lbs, it is not considered a "passenger automobile" by the IRS and therefore not subject to depreciation caps. This means a small business could take a tax write-off of the full purchase price in the first year of ownership, thanks to the new tax break signed into law by Bush in June. The only vehicle less expensive that could qualify is a Dodge Durango.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Thanks for the V8x update. Do you have any idea as to why that info was left off the current Touareg brochure? There's no mention of it anywhere.

    Bob
  • buyavwbuyavw Member Posts: 3
    Each Volkswagen dealer received 2 Touaregs and 30-60 showroom brochures at the end of June. The brochures went immediately on back-order and dealers are still waiting for more. My guess is VW wanted to have brochures available when the vehicle was released (for a change), and since the V8x is not scheduled for release until the forth quarter, it was left out of the initial showroom brochure. Other changes are being made to standard equipment and option packages listed in the initial brochure, as well. Such as a 6-disc CD Changer is now included with the Navigation system.
  • mml7mml7 Member Posts: 55
    Thanks mml7 for you extensive comments! I completely agree. I had the same concerns with the Murano early on as you did. I have become comfortable with the vehicle (whatever it is classified as) over time. I am not sure that I "really like it", but what a price/value deal. I "like" the Murano, but also like the VW somewhat better. I just don't think it's $10K better!

    By the way, what did you end up buying?


    I know exactly what you mean. Truely, if we could have gotten comfortable with the Murano's looks, we probably would have bought it...a bit shallow, I know, but you gotta be happy with the car! The Murano had the right price, safety features, and gadgets (memory pedals!).

    In the end, we bought a V6 Touareg with Premium Pkg. :-) With the NE emissions, it came out to a touch over $38K. While we spent a few grand over the Murano, we also spent $10K less than a similarly equipped X5....The Touareg has all the safety features and gizmos that we want and we are really happy with the way it drives and the way it looks.

    Ever see someone in a parking lot park really far away from everyone else and then walk backwards from the car admiring it? That's me. (did I say I was shallow? ;-)
  • beauxdadbeauxdad Member Posts: 4
    When you purchase a Touareg you receive a CD with very well staged movies on driving your new SUV off road. The featured hostess and driver is Jutta Kleinschmidt better known as "The Rally Queen". She can really put the T-reg through the "ringer", driving on the edge, in some breathtaking desert enviorns.
     But the real kicker is, she is driving a V10 TDI ( shots with the hood up are the only evidence.) The test car also features a wood rimmed steering wheel as in Lexus and like up-scale models. My guess is this will show up as an option on the V8x.
     I am still waiting for my car to show up at the dealer, should be here any day now, in the meantime I have the CD to watch. Not quite the same as the real thing!
  • ohiosuvohiosuv Member Posts: 33
    How does the V6 carry around all the weight of the Touareg? The VW weighs a whopping 1,400lbs. more than the Murano (nearly 40% more!), but yet has 220hp compared to the Murano's 245hp. I read somewhere that the V6 Murano is even faster the V8 Touareg! I drove the V6 and thought it was clearly underpowered for the vehicle, leading me to conclude that to buy the Touareg one really had no choice but to buy the V8. What are your thoughts?
  • allhorizonallhorizon Member Posts: 483
    I am not surprised she's pictured driving the TDI Tuareg - she won 8th place in the 2003 Dakar Rally in a 2WD Diesel Buggy!

    - D.
  • mml7mml7 Member Posts: 55
    Ohiosuv-

    The Murano may very well be faster than the V8, though that may be a function of the CVT tranny and the Murano's weight more than anything else. The MDX and X5 are faster to 60 than the V6 Touareg (it's extra 400 lbs doesn't help there either). In the V6, I feel that the programming of the 6spd Tip in the Touareg is a tad on the lazy side. The shifting is ultra smooth and I'm constantly finding myself traveling much faster than I had intended, but it doesn't always feel like it keeps the V6 in the middle of the torque curve. If you shift it to the 'S' mode, however, the V6 really comes alive as the programming shifts the car much more aggressively. We had thought about the V8, but we really wanted to keep the price as far south of $40K as we could. All in all, I am happy with the 6's performance, but another 20HP and 20ft/lbs of torque wouldn't have hurt...
  • clpurnellclpurnell Member Posts: 1,083
    0-60
    Toureg v6 9.5 v8 7.5
    Murano 7.0-7.5
    FX35 RWD 7.1
    FX45 6.3
    X5 3.0 8.0

    The toureg v6 is a pokey SUV indeed. The turbo diesel will be the engine for anyone looking for high perfomance but at a cost of well over 50 large it will be difficult to justify that for a VW.
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    NOTHING to justify to anyone...The operative word is VALUE...Shop and Compare...Performance, Warranty, Safety, and Style...
  • clpurnellclpurnell Member Posts: 1,083
    I respectfully disagree. I am a big fan of the way VW is headed and the toureg seemed great on paper. I know it is basically a 60k+ cayenne cheaper but that doesn't necessarily make it better. At 50k+ there is a lot of stiff competition X5 4.4, FX45, Navigator, Escalade, H2 etc etc Outside of the great off road abililties (how many people thrash 50k+ cars off road) what does it offer to stand out from the crowd. BMW and Lexus have status, Escalade, Navigator, h2 have Size on their side. The FX45 pure performance. At 35-45k I agree there is value to be had in a fine german engineered SUV for less than mercedes and BMW but you pass that 50k mark service, vehicle and nameplate are all weighed equally. To me it just a tough sell.
  • mml7mml7 Member Posts: 55
    At 35-45k I agree there is value to be had in a fine german engineered SUV for less than mercedes and BMW but you pass that 50k mark service, vehicle and nameplate are all weighed equally. To me it just a tough sell.

    Actually, you don't even have to pass $50K. A friend of mine recently picked up a very well equipped ML500 for $48K...about the same price as a V8 Touareg with Premium plus pkg. Still, one of the reasons we did not buy the X5 or ML350/500 was *because* of their 'status'.
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    I understand..."Outside of the great OffRoad abilities"...Why would anyone WANT an SUV?

    And, unless one is a really poor driver, going offroad and/or back road is not going to "thrash"
    their T-Reg...

    mm17 finishes the thought...Status is not something that VW people find very important, or as Fred Astaire so aptly put it..."You cannot buy class."
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Peter (VWGUILD) probably knows the specific issue(s) of Car & Driver that tested and compared the Touareg against many worthy competitors -- Car & Driver picked the Touareg as their "#1 Choice for Lux SUV."

    Car & Driver says it "better" than ANY of us on this board.

    Their reasons are there for all to see, their logic their ratings and rankings -- I am not a professional auto tester or journalist. I weigh and consider what C&D says -- and I lend credence to it.

    For all I know, all the Touareg bashing (or sort-of bashing) that appears to go on here from time to time may have merit. But, since we have so little experience to draw from, I say read Car & Driver, test the thing for yourself and then determine if the designation (which is, after all, ephemeral) Best Luxury SUV is deserved.

    I, for one, think it is.

    Of course, I, for one, also think that two of the greatest cars "no one" knows about are the Passat W8 and the Audi allroad 2.7T 6spd.
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    And, I should add an answer to my own question...

    "If, you are not going off road or on the back roads, why own an SUV?" For Towing!!! and the T-Reg has the greatest towing capacity of all the 'competition' mentioned above @ 7700#s
  • clpurnellclpurnell Member Posts: 1,083
    Listen I didn't intend to start an argument. I just think that over 50k The toureg has some very real and stiff competition. I have driven the v6 toureg with air suspension. The ride was superb for an offroad oriented SUV. The space was decent but in v6 guise the power was not there.

    Currently I drive a FX35 this is either a love it or hate it vehicle and I love it. It has enough passenger and cargo room for my daily needs and puts a grin as wide as the grand canyon on my face. But some people dismiss it as an odd looking wagon.

    Everyone has an opinion It's just that "I" would not spend 50k+ on a vw toureg. I might on an Audi version that forgoes some of the offroad equipment and substitutes more performance. I look at suv's for their cargo capacity, safety and perhaps most of all performance I am more of a sport sedan guy than a truck guy.

    The FX is my first SUV and probably the least like typical SUV's it offered ground clearance(to make it through hurricane rains) and cargo capacity with little sacrifice in sport sedan acceleration and handling. So it was the best fit for me. The toureg might be perfect for some but to me at the price point I was looking at it fell short in the performance category which I weighed heavily. Just my .02
  • JBaumgartJBaumgart Member Posts: 890
    I also was looking at the Toureg but unfortunate events intervened. I was involved in a multi-car accident with our allroad in late March, and when they decided to total it out [ :-( ] I needed a replacement vehicle real quick. I ended up with the FX45 which I am extremely happy with, especially the performance which is what this vehicle is all about. The Toureg was very interesting but the timing just didn't work out in our case...maybe next time. If so maybe the V10 would be available by then - that 2 1/2+ tons needs some serious torque to get it going!

    P.S. I agree with your overall sentiments completely - enjoy your FX.
  • knockoffknockoff Member Posts: 72
    I for one have been looking for a "luxury" SUV that can go off road. The market is very slim since about 90% of you buying SUVs don't go off road. I currently own a truck but I too want more people room & an enclosure for my 2 beagles. I have been looking at the GX470 but hate the back swing-gate. I don't like the Discovery. I have hung around the Infiniti chat rooms trying to see if anyone has off-road experiences with the FX but I think I am trying to put a round peg in square hole. Sooooooo.... thank you VW for thinking of me with some gr8 off-road equipment & packaging in a "luxury" SUV.
  • clpurnellclpurnell Member Posts: 1,083
    This is the SUV for you then. The fx should never be driven off road :) Also try the 4runner limited V8 it is a GX470 lite.
  • phastphilphastphil Member Posts: 22
    I have been following the Toureg since first announced, and was disappointed that upon arrival it was underpowered with the V6, pushing you into the V8 for any decent performance. I, as are 90% of us, are NOT off roaders, so I just can't convince myself to buy into the Toureg. The new crossover class, like the FX, the HPX and the new MB R-Class are more suited for me....a sporty, on-road SUV. I was impressed by the FX, but the poor residual value and 'unique' styling have kept me waiting. Also, our local Infiniti dealer is awful, so the MB would be much more attractive.
  • maxsymmaxsym Member Posts: 1
    When I first looked at the Touareg I was really pleased that I had found something different. Now that the flush of excitement has gone and I am waiting for my car to show up at the dealership and reading some of the comments (which are really helpful) I am having second thoughts. Having placed a deposit I have first right of refusal on a V8 with the premium plus package. I actually did not want this option but that's the only one available. So it will cost me $3K more than I thought I would spend. My biggest issues are:

    1. VW came out really poorly in the JD Powers relaiability survey.
    2. The salesman (although a decent guy) is total out of his depth
    3. The local dealership looks like "Al's used car lot" Why would VW allow such a competitive product be sold without upgrading its image?
    4.I'm not sure if the service I am going to get will be reliable.
    5.$48K+ for a VW???????

    Having said this I have had a BMW 528i for the past three years and believe me the service I received from the dealership is probably the worst I have ever received. Plus the car was unreliable and spent 2.5 months off the road.

    Any thoughts and suggestions?
  • svinaiksvinaik Member Posts: 84
    Just one comment. on TReg vs. Cayenne. I know that they share common platform but it does not make TReg a Cayenne or vice a versa. They have their unique engines, Brakes & transmission though basic ideas are the same but there is enough difference in the "Heart" of the vehicles.

    I have driven both, TReg & Cayenne. Try it back to back and you will not mistake one for the other. Both are great in their own ways but I decided to go with cayenne and have not felt any buyer's regret since but I am sure I would have been thinking after spending $ 48K+ on a VW brand. Long term quality on both the vehicles is still to be judged but my bet is on Porsche.

    just my 2 cents.....
  • ohiosuvohiosuv Member Posts: 33
    You and I are thinking exaclty the same way. I simply do not value the off-road capabilities and don't want to pay for it. Also, if I am going to spend $42K, I think I should get a premium nameplate. For comparison sakes, I looked at the XC90 (again). It is not nearly as good as the VW, but at least it has a "near-premium" nameplate. Thus, in some way I would be more comfortable buying the Volvo. I'm not, because that vehicle I think is rather spartan for the price, but at least they were smart too emphasize the safety rather than the off-road ability.

    As I said before, if the VW were $4K less (and it might be in 6 months) I would buy it. Or if it were an Audi nameplate, again I would buy it.

    I have decided finally to buy the Murano. Not quite the same quality vehicle as the Touareg, but probably a better brand name. The Murano can be had at invoice (w/o haggling), or over $10K less than the VW. That's huge! Since I never tow or go offroad, and literally just drive it to work and back (@50 miles roundtrip daily), there is little justification for a premium vehicle anyway even if I were comfortable with the VW nameplate. So I am saving the money and treating myself to the XMSR satellite radio and a TIVO for the house! Good luck to all those still considering what to do!
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    In November 2002, I picked up my brand new allroad.

    Every possible option and a 6spd man (0-100kph 6.8secs without the aid of a chip!) MSRP just south of $49K.

    Added 4 upsized Mich Pilot Sport A/S tires ($840), had the dealer (!) reprogram the 4 level suspension to go 1/2" lower (no charge) and had the A6 rear sport antisway bar put on the car ($200 including labor).

    Then I took it to a bodyshop and had the fender flares & front and rear bumper body color painted and clearcoated (burgundy pearl). This plus the Audi factory phone all together brought the "sticker price" to about $52K. The Audi dealer did all the above for me (except the sport suspension in the lease) and then discounted the car back down to about $48K, gave me the Audi loyalty discount and rolled it into a no money down no first month's payment 36 month lease (35 payments).

    Level 4 on the suspension is 8+ inches of ground clearance. The floorpan of the allroad is 20% stronger than a standard Audi A6 avant and it has front and rear skid plates.

    It is a mid-sized part sports sedan, part suv, part station wagon (gasp!).

    It goes like hell, corners with my 2001 A6 4.2 (which had the sport package), has On*star, sat nav, a very good sound system, great seats and plenty of room for 4 adults and OK room for 5.

    It is fantastic on trips at level 2, handles very crsiply on the twisties on level 1 and can go much further off road than 98% of us will ever do -- with aplomb -- and when it is all clean and shiny is an upscale German car.

    If any car was the Swiss army knife of cars -- this one is it. At this moment it can't do everything OFF ROAD that a Touareg can do and it can't tow as much either. However, it will out accelerate, out corner/perform the Touareg in literally all on-road categories. And if you compared the V8 Touareg with the allroad for gas milage you would have both higher performance and greater miles per gallon with the allroad.

    Finally with the addition of a mild chip, the performance characteristics can be increased significantly (HP will be taken to 300 and torque will increase to over 350 foot pounds).

    If your need is for heavy duty and serious off roading -- get the Touareg. If your need is for over 7,000 pounds of towing capacity, get the Touareg.

    If your need is to go virtually anyplace that a Jeep Grand Cherokee can go -- the allroad will do just fine.

    I am, despite my sales pitch in favor of the allroad, a Touareg fan. In no way does any of this imply I believe the Touareg is not all that Car and Driver claims it to be (The BEST Lux SUV on the planet -- at this moment).

    But once you get above $43K -- if you find yourself underwhelmed by the power of the V8 Touareg and not needing the superior off road capabilities or the extra towing capacity -- please at least take a long long test drive in an allroad. The Japanese cars/semi-SUV's listed and discussed in this thread are "posers" when compared with the allroad.

    And, finally, the Audi comes with 100% maintenance for 50,000 miles and a dealer network that while not perfect is generally much much better than the current state of VW dealerships.

    P.S. - due to the relative obscurity and lack of markeing that has been done on behalf of the allroad, most dealers have several on their lots and right now (and probably for at least another 60 - 75 days) they are discounted mightily.

    P.P.S - if this still doesn't float your boat, ther is NOW available a 2004 allroad with that super sweet 4.2L V8 engine with 300 naturally aspirated horses for your dining and dancing pleasure (of course that option makes it MORE than the Touareg; while the other version even maxed out will be less than a Touareg even before a generous discount).

    This is a GERMAN car chat room -- let's not have this Japanese discussion creeping into it :-)
  • treidnotetreidnote Member Posts: 2
    I know it's early in the game, but anyone have any real-world experience towing with the Toureg? Payload ratings tell only part of the story- how does it track, pull, etc.

    Need to pull a 4000# skiboat/trailer, and want something that has the stones to tow without getting winded or wearing me out on longer drives. And would really prefer not to have to go to a domestic SUV. The VW seems to be the only non-domestic with strong tow capacity(besides the Cayenne).
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The VW seems to be the only non-domestic with strong tow capacity(besides the Cayenne).

    Check out: 4Runner, Land Cruiser, Sequoia, LX/GX 470, Pathfinder, QX4, Xterra, Montero, Rodeo, and XC90. All are rated over 4000# for towing, and most are rated ~ 5000#, if not higher.

    Bob
  • beauxdadbeauxdad Member Posts: 4
    FYI, if you plan to tow with a Touareg , the VW tow bar will cost an additional 650 bucks. Dealers might get a supply for installation in a few weeks.
  • mml7mml7 Member Posts: 55
    Check out: 4Runner, Land Cruiser, Sequoia, LX/GX 470, Pathfinder, QX4, Xterra, Montero, Rodeo, and XC90. All are rated over 4000# for towing, and most are rated ~ 5000#, if not higher

    The Touareg is rated for 7700 lbs. None of those come close.
  • clpurnellclpurnell Member Posts: 1,083
    I agree the allroad is a dynamite vehicle. I had a little fun with one a couple of weeks ago. Stayed with him all the way to triple digits but let up because I had my family with me. The engine in that allroad (2.7t twin turbo) is what should have been the base engine it the toureg. I am very interested in the pikes peak if it does indeed seat 6 or more people. I agree Audi has some sleeper vehicles I would love to get my hands around the S8 :) I think you have strengthend my point at 50 large there are tons of alternatives. My budget however was 40k and at this price point nothing comes close to an fx35 in the crossover segment for features, dealer experience, Performance and price. Like I said at 50 Large the toureg while nice would be pretty low on the list. If I could have gotten a bi turbo, nav, rear dvd toureg for what I paid for my fx it probably would have been close but the toureg as it stands now just fell short.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    True, but the poster was looking for something to tow a 4000# trailer. All the ones I listed will do that with ease.

    Bob
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    MSRP for an allroad is $39,950 and change. Add the one super all-in-one option package @ $3,450 and the thing with even a lousy discount is $41K.

    Add two more options: BOSE and the cold weather package and the price before any discount swells to $45,535. If you ask you will get 5% off if you negotiate, you will get more. The lease deals are generous.

    Compare a slightly discounted allroad with other offerings in the "around $40K range" -- if absolute offroad capability is your need and you think a Jeep Grand would do the job, go ahead try the allroad. Then try the competition in the "sporting" category -- the allroad again will please.

    Wait, I've gone too far, too long. . .this is a Touareg board. I would be delighted to have a Touareg and until proven otherwise, I will still agree with Car and Driver and VWGUILD -- for its purpose the VW Touareg is CURRENTLY the best Lux SUV -- and the allroad is a major bargain and contender if you don't need that absolute towing and/or offroad increase that the Touareg provides.

    If you can afford an FX35 you can afford an allroad -- since I seem to have implied that you must spend $50K to have one -- not true, not true.

    If you are looking at the $50K VW and don't test drive an allroad, you're missing a truly remarkable car and I contend with the deals that are happening now, a bargain.

    Again, if the full out off road thing is for you, well the allroad won't get it, and ditto all out towing capacity.

    At this price point the VW Touareg and the Audi allroad are major players and deserve your scrutiny.
  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    It will be interesting to see how long VW can command full MSRP for the T-Reg. A month ago our local Volvo dealers were demanding full MSRP on any XC90, and that was one factor that affected my decision to the RX 330. In fact, one Volvo dealer was not willing to take my deposit and hold the vehicle for 5 days. He was convinced it would sell sooner. (The rest of that story... It turned out he was wrong.)

    The competition is very stiff. The Murano is a very competent SUV with a great V6 engine and great on-road handling. If we could have looked past the issues we had with the interior, we would be driving one now. It has been available at invoice for several weeks, maybe months.

    The FX35/45 offers a high degree of quality and on-road performance. At $500 over invoice, an FX35 with the nicely equipped Premium Package can be purchased at about $35K (RWD) or $36.5K (AWD).

    The '04 RX 330 is also being discounted at a majority of dealers. We purchased a FWD model at a price below $36.5K; over $3K off of MSRP. I think it is only a matter of time before more dealers start providing this level of discount; when supply catches up with demand.

    Even the MDX's are now being discounted several thousands of dollars now at our local dealers. I was told one buyer was able to negotiate down to $500 over invoice.

    All the other competition is also discounted, including the 4Runner Limited, GX470, ML350, Allroad, etc. Our local dealers are practically giving away the new Lincoln Aviators!

    I agree with clpurnell (and other posters here) that the lack of a "premium" name; the lack of a reputation for reliability; and the targetting of off-road capabilities instead of real world practicalities (for over 90% of SUV drivers) will not bode well for the T-Reg, at least not within VW's desired price range and sales volume.
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    many times before that the Touareg was created primarily for VW people, who have had to leave the brand to get an SUV...

    We will only get 23,000 for 2003 and another 40,000 slated for next year...And time will prove that the Touareg will be the overall favorite based on the same criteria that Car and Driver focused upon...

    A complete package for
    very special customers... Volkswagen People!!!!
  • rkuehnrkuehn Member Posts: 120
    ...to the sum of 80,000+ annually would have probably bought a mainstream VW SUV that was designed for the mainstream VW market ("young & fun", or pick your favorite other cliche) and the mainstream customer need (on-road emphasis).

    Instead we have the Touareg which is very nicely done, poor-mans' Land Rover. 40,000 units? Maybe. Volvo intended to sell 60,000 XC90s. Then 70,000. Now 80,000. VW started at 60,000 SUVs. Now its much less. Point is Volvo came up with an SUV for its mainstream market with an on-road emphasis. Not so sure the Touareg will do for VW's market presence what the XC90 has apparently done for Volvo.

    And if only the Cayenne looked more like the FX45...
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Peter, I think we are spitting into the wind, or some other phrase probably put to music some time ago by Jim Croce.

    I re-read the Car and Driver piece. I have not had the pleasure of test driving the Touareg -- I have been inside of both the Touareg and the Cayenne. I have peered into the Infinity FX X5 vehicle. I think that it looks cool, the Murano looks undercooked to my eye.

    Be that as it may. . . this seems to be turning into an anti-Touareg chat room for reasons I don't understand.

    Does Car and Driver's article have any credibility?

    I read the article and then happened to see the Car and Driver TV show on TNN and to this moment, which I grant is just a moment, nothing even comes close to the Touareg. Car and Driver has never been all that kind to VW -- but from time to time they say some darn nice things about a vehicle. Thus was the case with the Touareg. Other automotive journalists have also been willing to laud praise on the thing.

    Would someone who owns a Touareg V8 regail us with a story about the Best Luxury SUV?

    I shudder to think what will happen when the Phaeton comes out -- the crowd is getting ugly.

    I do not necessarily dislike some of the other SUV's mentioned here -- but isn't it just possible that the Touareg IS currently "better" than the Lexus or Infinity or Acura or Volvo? Again the word currently must be underscored.
  • rkuehnrkuehn Member Posts: 120
    Hey if you like the Touareg or Phaeton, go get 'em. All this is just opinion. Both are well done. But looking at VW with a sense of business objectivity, I just don't get it...

    The Phaeton has already failed in Europe (had been working over there most of the year until recently). VW should have done with the Phaeton what Toyota did with the Avalon. Take the current mainstream sedan (ie Camry, Passat) and go one size larger.

    Touareg is very well done but relatively low volume. Had VW had done an SUV to compete in its mainstream market (ie vs. Pilot, Highlander, Murano, etc.) I am convinced they would have had a high-volume hit that would have sold many, many more vehicles than they will otherwise sell now. Skip the off-road & luxury, etc. Would have been very good for the brand and market share.

    VW has made this obsessive move upmarket (Piech) and left its mainstream lineup underdeveloped and aged. There is plenty of competition in the Touareg/Pheaton space already. VW could have carved out a very unique space for itsself but didn't.

    And of course, its all opinion.
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    success or failure is certainly not going to be determined in a few quarters...
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    I cannot speak to the European market except to say that a product like the Phaeton will take some time to gain acceptance, and that is/was certainly no surprise to anyone in Wolfsburg...

    The US Market, however; is a different story...
    First of all, neither product was developed to capture a major market share or compete in any sort of mainstream environment...There is no expectation to sell 425,000 Touaregs, as Ford does with the Explorer...These two products are for Volkswagen Customers that heretofore have been forced to leave the brand to get an SUV or a Luxury, Sport Sedan like the s500 or 745Li...

    With a planned production of 23,000 Touaregs this year and 40,000 in 2004 we will be just fine. And, I will have a better feel for the Phaeton after it's arrival in November...But, for now...I am not concerned about it either...
  • clpurnellclpurnell Member Posts: 1,083
    I am probably the utmost target for the toureg. Young (27), Income between 75-100k, and have a family too large for any current vw offering (2 kids) passat too small and don't want a wagon. However I think they missed the boat I don't go off road. Most passat owners don't have jeep wranglers or liberties that they take off road. They want what the passat offers in an suv on road performance, quality and value. If they would have stuck to that (as addressed by posts earlier) I would probably have a toureg in my driveway right now. I came real close on my last car purchase (2001) to buying a passat glx but didn't for the following reasons. 1) too sluggish off the line compared to competition. 2) at the time 2yr b-2-b warranty. 3) too much body roll while conering.

    I really like the vw product line don't get me wrong I just think instead of this push to compete against mercedes and lexus. They should take the approach nissan is and offer counter programming to Honda/Toyota. That is where the volume and majority of the market is. Leave Audi to fight the BMW's and Infinti's of the world. Their two pronged highend approach would be like toyota wanting to sell sporty high end cars and lexus to sell luxury high end cars. It just doesn't make much business sense to me.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Car and Driver summarized their testing of the V8 Touareg thusly [excepted]:

    There are SUVs that are as quick [or quicker], handle as sharply, or are as capable off-road or as comfortable as our loaded Touareg, but precious few can match the VW in all the above, and certainly not at an as-tested price in the mid-$40,000 range. That's less than the cost of an Audi A6 with the same V-8 but no air suspension or locking diffs. Clearly, VW is buying its way into a new market segment with sweetheart pricing. Get 'em while they last!
  • pathfinder13pathfinder13 Member Posts: 110
    I was really interested in V8 t-reg, since I have 2002 Pathfinder I couldn't look for V6 due to less HP. The sales man asked me to put the deposit first, than I will get to take a test drive. Sorry VW, I rather look for something else or wait for 2005 pathfinder.
  • alman08alman08 Member Posts: 282
    a deposit first before a test drive?? what? he wanted a quarter for the gumball machine or something?? crazy!
  • ohiosuvohiosuv Member Posts: 33
    Complete agreement. If I could wait for 6 months, I would get the Touareg when they are forced to reduce the price (maybe to invoice) in order to sell them. I have waited too long already, in fact mostly waiting for the Touareg, so I bought the Murano. They did the right thing by offering an alternative to the Honda/Toyota offering. Some may not like the style of the Murano, but at least it has some styling compared to the no styling of the Pilot/Highlander.

    It is unfathonable to me why VW would choose to compete with Lexus/Acura/Volvo/Infinite when they have Audi for that!? They did not have to go outside of their normal pricing range to improve their image/quality issues - they just have to make better cars, which they are starting to do. I like what they have done to their cars, but this pricing on the Touareg is just dumb. And the pricing is a function of the capabilities of the vehicle, which largely is related to the impressive off-road (and towing) capabilities that almost no one values.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    And the pricing is a function of the capabilities of the vehicle, which largely is related to the impressive off-road (and towing) capabilities that almost no one values.

    I disagree. There are plenty of people who tow and/or go off-road. I for one, and same with my next door neighbor. Contrary to popular opinion, not everyone wants a crossover. Witness the huge popularity of the back-to-basics Nissan Xterra. They're everywhere! And let's not forget the Hummer H2, one of the most anti-crossover SUVs ever conceived.

    Also keep in mind that the Touareg is a "world SUV." I'm sure Touaregs in Africa, Australia, etc. will have their utilitarian capabilities put to good use. It's only here in America where SUVs are substitutes for station wagons.

    Finally, the Touareg is an excellent example of having your cake, and being able to eat it too. It drives like a good European sedan, yet is not afraid of getting its feet muddy when the occasion arises.

    Bob
  • mudman2mudman2 Member Posts: 152
    I have family in the auto trade back in the UK.

    Word there is not a'la Car and Driver over there in fact they are shocked by the article, reliability and build quality has plagued the T since launch together with dealer mismatch.

    Golf and T in the same stable !!! wrong segment.

    Phaeton is also going the way of the last 7 series...no one wants it
  • ohiosuvohiosuv Member Posts: 33
    Let me qualify my remark based on your comment - most people that are looking for "a car-based SUV" do not value off-road capability or towing. I agree there are many people where these features are important, but almost by defination they should/will purchase a traditional SUV for those things. That's why the other vehicles you mention will continue to sell well.

    I like the Touareg, I am just not paying $42K for a non-premium nameplate like VW!
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