Mini Cooper v. Hyundai Tiburon v. Acura RSX v. Subaru WRX

tsquish · July 2002

For everyone who loves the MINI (I'll probably get a few responses on this one). You may want to view the consumer discussion lists, there are numerous complaints about the build quality of the car from actual owners. I too thought it would be a cool car to look at, but after some research it appears it may be going the way of the Yugo, or Gremlin.

tollag · July 2002

I have a Electric Blue Cooper S, and can't say enough about the car... I find it hard to believe that everyone who gave the car a good rating, had it in the 9.5's upward, while a select group gave it anything from a 1-2... The build quality is excellent, along with fun of driving, and smile factor. If you don't like the new Cooper, or Cooper S, you should really consider having your head examined....

hpulley4 · July 2002

Check out many forums here and you'll find problems with most cars. People with problems look for discussion groups to try to get solutions and just to share their pain.

The 2002 MINI is a first-year car. Some have problems, but as I said above this is true of most cars.

Recalls and other problems don't seem to stop sales these days. Look at the Focus.

someblondeguy · July 2002

I picked up my Cooper 'S' 2 weeks ago.

I ordered it in January (and had to endure a 5-month wait).

I LOVE the car and bought it without comparing it to other cars.

Sure, I had a list of 2 or 3 other cars I thought about getting, but I realized that good things come to those that wait.

I wouldn't sell my car to ANYONE on the waiting list for an 'S'. Not even for $50,000 Cdn.

The car totally feels like a BMW. (I've been around MANY Bimmers, as I used to work at the dealership I bought my Mini).

Just take one for a test drive. The constant looks and smiles from passerby you'll get are worth it alone!

kevin111 · July 2002

Let me explain:

1. too short. At 11 feet long, shortest vehicle sold to the U.S. general public (per Car and Driver). I am hessitant to drive it due to crash protection. I am curious to see how it rates when the NHSA tests it.

2. I am not a big fan of the styling. Some people love it, I do not, both inside and out.

3. Reliability - new division, basically a new company. Yes it is under the BMW hierarchy, but it is being built by a new division in England. Basically, a new company with BMW looking over it. Because this is not only a new car, but basically a new company, I have a wait and see attitude on the quality.

4. Ride (this is second hand). I have heard that it has a very harsh ride, even though it handles extremely well.

Personally (IMHO), I would get an RSX. Would feel like I am getting more car for the same money.

drivinisfun · July 2002

When are you going to do some research on the MINI and get your facts straight, buddy???

Instead of issuing "Hear Say" armchair reviews and comments, stop by your nearest MINI dealer and TEST DRIVE THE CAR!

I suspect that after driving either MINI model, you'll soon begin to question your Acura RSX purchase....a few people that currently own RSX's after test driving the MINI have left deposits and put their overpriced Civiesque RSX coupes up for sale.

There is simply no comparison my friend!

TEST DRIVE THE CAR!!!!!

kevin111 · July 2002

Actually bought a WRX that I love. Has a legitamite back seat for when the relatives visit.

From what I have read, the Mini is a blast to drive, and is as close to a street legal go-cart, in terms of feel and handling, as you can get. The handling is supposed to be great. The problems I have are with the issues I posted.

I am just not a fan of the styling like others are, and am scared to drive it due to the weight and length.

As the colision specialist said, the cars that he witnessed that do the best in accidents are the bigger and longer vehicles. The ones that do the worst are the short and light ones.

Of course with being short and agile, you will probably avoid more accidents also.

tollag · July 2002

You can check it out at Mini2.com... Also, the Mini isn't that light... It weighs a little over 2,500 pounds! And yes, it's more agile than almsot any other car... The ONLY car that out-performed it in the 600 foot slalom test was the Porsche 911 Carrera 4, but that car costs over $100,000!!! Get a mini

muffin_man · July 2002

I'm under the impression that the Mini's laden weight is 2,315 pounds, which is lighter than the Miata (2,387).

As for the agility, that is fantastic but there are times when an accident is unavoidable, when somebody t-bones you in an intersection, or you are rear ended and rammed into the person in front of you.

My safety concerns aside, I definitely think that the Mini is an amazing package, but in a land full of SUV's, safety is a concern. 4 stars out of 5 isn't that impressive after all the hype I'm hearing - I was expecting 5. I mean, BMW this, stiffest steel that, and it got the same rating as a Hyundai Accent.

kevin111 · July 2002

Use that $24K and buy a Ninja from Kawasoki. Better handling, faster, better in the slalom test, seats 2 as well, and probably has almost as big a trunk. You will also have some money left over. Finally, it probably is almost as good in a crash as well. Maybe an MR2? Bigger front end, better in a crash, and a convertible. Is just as fast as well.

An Acura RSX is not a good comparison since the RSX is more of a primary car of many people, while it is unlikely a Mini will ever be someone's only means of transportation.

If I wanted a boutique second car, I would consider a Mini. Unfortunately, many of us just plan to have one car for all our purposes. For this reason, the Mini does not fit.

hpulley4 · July 2002

Kevin, you are just being silly now. Where you get $24K for a MINI is beyond me. $16K for Cooper, $19K for MCS. Next, of course a light motorbike is faster than a car, duh! But you'll never get 25 cubic feet of stuff in a bike and even the 5 cubic feet with the back seats up is way more than you'll get in that kind of machine (maybe a fat touring bike would fit that much). And if you think a bike is safer than a MINI... well, I'm sure you don't, you're just being rediculous. You just don't like the MINI. We understand that you don't like it; no need to repeat it.

Muffin, the 4/5 stars is for the european crash test; we're still waiting for the NHTSA and IIHS to test the MINI. No Hyundai in that test. Only two cars (not just in that size, but of all tested) scored 5 stars.

kevin111 · July 2002

I have never seen those prices for the Mini, but if you can get a decently optioned out Mini S for under $20K, then we are talking about a whole new ballgame. Mind you, I still would not buy one, but that is due to my preferences and my safety worries (whether realistic or perception). At $19K, we are no longer comparing the Mini S to the RSX Type-S but to the base RSX (with leather can get for $19) and the Hyundai Tiberon. If that is the case, then besides from the safety factor perception (again, whether it is real or not, just can not see myself driving a car so short), the Mini then indeed looks like a good deal.

My argument is when you compare a Mini S to an RSX Type-S at the same price. The reasons for my tirades on the Mini is that I have major issues with arguments of Mini owners stating their car is superior to an RSX. I personally do not believe this is true. This is strictly their preference, and should be kept in perspective. If you prefer the Mini, great, have fun with it. From what I have heard, it is a blast to drive. Just do not force your opinion on others.

BTW, I do not own an RSX and have no interest in purchasing one at this time.

Finally, these discussion, though lively and cantankerous, have been entertaining none-the-less.

muffin_man · July 2002

From what I understand, the Mini S can work its way up the pricing ladder with a few options. However, even at 19k, I still don't think it's clearly superior to a 20k VW GTI.

hpulley4 · July 2002

Yes, if you get leather seats, panoramic sunroof, navigation package, etc. then the price goes up quickly but isn't this true of most other cars with double sunroofs, navs and full leather?

muffin_man · July 2002

Double sunroofs? That is impressive. I suppose you're right, but I don't know. BUT, Do I think that anyone is walking out the door with a Mini S for $19k, no.

hpulley4 · July 2002

At least around here. There are base pre-specced cars coming in and people are buying them. It really depends on the area.

Some dealers won't let you order without buying at least a minimum amount of options and/or accessories but in low volume markets they let you have what you want. The base car, especially in the case of the S, is quite full featured. They are getting them for MSRP with doc fees, freight and PDI so there is a fair markup on them already -- those who charge above MSRP or demand other options are greedy and are taking advantage of a hot market. We'll see who still has customers when it cools off.

drivinisfun · July 2002

Right now you can order either a standard issue MINI Cooper or a MINI Cooper 'S' model at my local MINI dealer for MSRP with no mandatory packages or junk accessories. Just pick your color, place the order and a $500.00 refundable deposit.

So yes at my dealer it is perfectly feasible to get a new Cooper 'S' for under $20K.

kevin111 · July 2002

That sounds a little more reasonable. For 20k, it just comes as a matter of preference. It seems (from people I know that own both the RSX and the Mini), people who are buying the RSX are looking at it as their main and only car, while people buying the Mini are looking at it as a commuter car, and a fun on weekends car to supplement their other vehicles.

From the perspective buyer it just seems that the Mini is a car someone buys when their wife or second car is an SUV, station wagon, or a full sized sedan.

hpulley4 · July 2002

Our other car is a mid-sized wagon. That said, we do take our son with us on trips in the MINI and I've gotten groceries in it more times already than I thought I would (after work) so it _could_ be your only car (a Geo Metro was our only car for a while!). I'm not sure any of these cars are really practical as main family cars.

kevin111 · July 2002

Though I remember seeing a Porsche 911 with Father and Mother (at least I assume the Mother) in the front seats with two small children in the back. I remember saying to myself that this is the fastest family vehicle I have ever seen! (this was prior to the M5 being released).

I guess it is just a matter of preference. I know some people that swear by the Mini (just review many of the posters here!), and others who are not big fans of them (like me). That is why they make different cars and different models in different price ranges. To each his own.

drivinisfun · July 2002

I agree. We ordered the MINI Cooper for my wife to add to our existing large American sedan. We don't have any kids yet, but want to have the flexibility of a large, comfortable sedan and a practical nimble small hatchback. We don't like either SUVs or Minivans. I much prefer sedans, station wagons and hatchbacks. many small families don't need huge "Peter Built" SUVs or bulky Minivans. To me those vehicles are truly needed when you have more than 2 kids in the household and you need to carry loads of passengers/cargo in a daily basis.

Otherwise a family with 1 or 2 kids can do just fine with a full size sedan and a smaller, practical hatchback for the second car.

Kevin, you said you have a Subaru WRX...how do you like it?

kevin111 · July 2002

I was looking for a car with sportscar handling and acceleration, yet had a roomy enough back seat for my parents when they visit. Needles to say, there is plenty of room for my parents back there (I even took my dad with me when I went to test drive the car).

The interior is a little on the cheap side (as been mentioned countless times). The handling is very capable, and lane changes are virtually instantanious on the highway. The car has a fairly supple ride on the highway, and is fairly quiet as well (though not as quiet as say a BMW).

There is noticeable turbo-lag. As a result, I do not recommend the Auto. Accelerating onto the highway though, it is great.

O.K., I am gushing and overanalysing a little. Basically, I really like it!

P.S., I did look at an RSX before buying it.

drivinisfun · July 2002

Good to hear you are enjoying the WRX. I have seen very few new WRXs in my neck of the woods and in all honestly Ihaven't even been inside one yet. To me the WRX is the closest thing to an Audi A4/BMW 325ix in the $25K to $30K price bracket, a bargain. The WRX appears to be extremely capable (After all it is a WRC based car) but I have mixed opinions about its exterior styling and to which I attribute the relative low success of this car in the North American market (If you are not a WRC follower/fan this car has very little meaning to you).

Subarus have terrific 4WD systems, fantastic engines and very solid quality.

Enjoy it!

kevin111 · July 2002

Thank you. The same with your Mini. I have heard it is a blast to drive (I think I already said that).

If you have an interest in the exterior and interior stying, the WRX is not the way to go. I bought it strictly for driving and practicality reasons. The looks do grow on you though.

Where do you live? In Southern California, I do not see too many. I actually a great deal more 3-series than WRXs.

revka · July 2002

I see other vehicles are making their way into the discussion here. No problem. And since gildlb has not returned here since starting this discussion, I've just added the Subaru WRX onto the title. Hope this is helpful. Happy motoring!

Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards

kevin111 · July 2002

Damn, me and my big mouth! :-O

hpulley4 · July 2002

I consider the WRX wagon to be a hatchback rather than a wagon so IMO it could belong here too, though being a turbocharged AWD vehicle I don't know that it really belongs (though they rally Tiburon's too and there is rumour of WRC MINI Coopers in a year or two!).

kevin111 · July 2002

The Subaru seems to be designed with strictly performance in mind, while forgoing asthetics (though the seats are comfortable). The other cars mentioned seem to be more of a compromise between asthetics and performance.

In the Subaru, there are no options for: -
Leather
Sunroof
climate control
power seats

ponm · July 2002

ONE thing the two have in common is the desire for both cars to come to the states. Of course the wrx has been in production for countless years in japan while the mini is new and revamped for this model year. I own a wrx wagon and it is a blast to drive. I believe this whole interior jabbish about the wrx is overplayed. I think it was stated in a car mag and many people have taken the ball and ran with it. I like the concept and finished product of the mini, but curious how it will play out. The best thing about the mini is that the tach is dead square in the middle of the steering wheel, thats great! More car companies should take note.
-scott

muffin_man · July 2002

The WRX has to be attacked for its interior exterior apperances, because from a performance standpoint, there isn't much to complain about.

kevin111 · July 2002

I know with WRXs, it is popular to upgrade the tires, and possibly the engine. Just wondering. Personally, I am leaving mine alone for the time being. My first upgrade are tinted windows.

I will say this about my WRX, the interior is much nicer than my old Camry's interior! I guess compared to the $30K-something sedan crowd, the interior is substandard, but compared to the $20K-something, it looks pretty good. The seats are awsome as well.

drivinisfun · July 2002

Any car has a better interior than the Toyota Camry!

fxs · July 2002

I own a wrx, LT1 caprice, and a 2-door Tahoe. If I had the extra cash and garage/driveway space I would get a Mini. Al Roker of the today show drove around NYC in one for a few hours making stops at a toy store, Krispy Cremes, and the Home depot to measure how much "stuff" he could put in it and still close the doors and hatch. I always wanted to own/race a go-kart as a teen but was broke. If Al could fit in it plus pickup that guitar cowboy off of Broadway(who only wore a hat, briefs, and boots), I could easily fit at 230lbs. Maybe in a few years when the Nasdaq hits 4000 I could pickup a used mini and drive it to and on the tracks of the Southwest. I will test drive one when the opportunity arises.

seminole_kev · July 2002

They way things have been going lately, it's more likely that the NYSE's going to hit 4000 before the Nasdaq does!

ponm · July 2002

kevin
I have only owned my wrx for four months now, but i have added 17" wheels and tires. I have also added a larger rear sway bar. In the future I plan on adding a manual boost controller(very soon), and a vishnu stage zero ( I have to convince the boss"wife" first.) But it also seems the longer I own the car, the more I want to upgrade the suspension. We'll see what happens.
scott

kevin111 · July 2002

Maybe it is me, but the suspension seems like a very good combination of ride compliant and handling. I guess there is always room for improvement :-).

BTW, I saw a new WRX with leather seats. It looked very nice. After market, but about the same price as if they were an option.

ponm · July 2002

Kevin
I truly believe the engine is the last thing that should be upgraded on the wrx. But I also believe it is a persons intentions of the car that points the person in what direction they are going to go in terms of modifications. I'm involved in auto-x so it only seems handling would be the way to go.
scott

kevin111 · July 2002

Even though the engine in the WRX has a great deal of potential for upgrades. Problem is, this can also void your warrenty by playing around with the engine. For aftermarket WRX parts on the web (did a little surfing)-

http://www.wrx.org.au/links/aftermarket1.htm

Supposedly Possum Bourne (New Zealand) has a site for parts, but can not find it.

WarpDrive · July 2002

...that cracks me up. I also fall into the category of seeing friends being screwed over by Hyundais in the past.

I think Hyundai has to take the award of "most improved company". The Koreans are certainly making headway into the world market. Look at Samsung products, they are becoming world class leaders.

But the Tiburon is not the real deal IMO. It's handling and drivability is still sub-Honda/Toyota/Subaru levels. As long as you are taking that into context, they can be a good deal for the money. However, for us perfectionists, I still look to Subaru/Honda for our sports cars. I'd say give them another 5-10 years and we could be singing a different tune.

WarpDrive · July 2002

Hyundai - blech, a pretender.
RSX - Not bad, but I prefer the WRX's power, AWD handling and overall packaging.
WRX - have one. Love it. The true Swiss Army Knife of compact sports sedans.

So that leaves the Mini.

My take: it's great. But you can't compare it to the WRX. A whole different type of car. To illustrate this, if or when I get bored of my Miata, I'm considering replacing it with the Mini, but I *will* keep my WRX. To me, the Mini would be a nice plaything to toot around in and commute to work in, or the summer weekend backroad excursion. But I wouldn't trade my WRX for one even if I could get full new value for it.

I'm going to wait a few years until they get the kinks out of the Mini, there are too many different reported problems to buy this car IMO. The WRX was the same (to a lesser degree) but it seems to have calmed down now.

xcskier · July 2002

I just saw that BMW is recalling more than 40% of MINI's for some sort gear shift cable problem. They also have a separate problem with the brakes on X5's. The two recalls combined will cost the company over $6M. Ouch...

This might give some additional weight to the arguments about 1st year vehicles and problems needing to be worked out of them.

I'm sure that it's in all the automotive press, but here's a link to where I saw the story tonight:

http://wcco.com/trouble/StoryFolder/story_309186488_html

beesenitch · August 2002

Hmmm, so it would seem the Mini is not as great as some people swear it to be.

Kinda like how some people think the Acura RSX is the next best thing to sliced bread???

Funny how nothing lately has been said about the Tibby. I, for one, would rather have a Tiburon any time over an RSX or a Mini

nippononly · August 2002

I think the first thing most people upgrade on the WRX is the tires and suspension - adding bigger anti-roll bars and larger rims/tires. I don't think the powertrain needs much boosting, except a lot of folks change out the exhaust.

How could anyone say this car has "had relatively low success in the North American market"?? They sold twice as many as they expected to in their first year, just completed, and could barely build enough to keep up with demand!

muffin_man · August 2002

Tiburon over a base RSX and base Mini, or over a Type-S, and Mini S?

The only reason I could think of to buy the Tiburon is if you like the styling better.

hunter001 · August 2002

Actually, they sold 3.5 times the number they originally expected. In fact, the original estimate was to sell around 10K units....they sold over 35K WRXs.

Later...AH

hpulley4 · August 2002

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/020802-1.htm

Honda is recalling over 1 million vehicles for ignition problems. Acura recalls for brake trouble. Nissan recalls for suspension breaking problems. Hyundai and Daewoo recalls for airbag problems. Recall, recall, recall... no company seems to have perfect cars these days, who woulda' thunk'd it?

muffin_man · August 2002

Was there a time when companies had perfect cars?

hpulley4 · August 2002

No, but it sure seems like there are more recalls these days. In the 70's some cars had 5000 mile warranties and 20000 mile break-ins and the manufacturers didn't give a damn about customers so I guess we shouldn't complain but everyone (myself included) seems to get excited about recalls at present.

nippononly · August 2002

has been a new record-breaker for recalls...how could they be in the third year of production on this generation and still have this many problems? I would skip tiburon too - heavy cruiser instead of nimble sport coupe.

These other three are totally worth their salt however.

kevin111 · August 2002

IMHO - I think the recalls have increased due to the government keeping an eye on manufacturers more closely, and all the technology advances and increased circuitry and technology.

In the 70s, standard things like airbags, ABS, electronics, heck, even computers were not available to the average car. Nowadays, an regular common sedan, such as an Accord, comes with all of these, with all sorts of other electronic sensors and monitors. More complexity, more possibility for things to go wrong, even if the engineering tools have improved (CAD and CAM).

Mini Cooper v. Hyundai Tiburon v. Acura RSX v. Subaru WRX

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