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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Hey if you just went to this forum you'd surely think minivans were a hot market segment. I keep hearing about all the recalls and you also reference the 1999 Honda Odyssey vs the 2001 Caravan(which isn't much different fromthe one now). Seems that Edmunds did a long term study on both of those vans. You should read them pretty good stuff. Recalls problems Dodge- 10 Honda -3. from what I'd seen, Honda had 7 recalls in 1999?? where you get 3 from? Ohhh you're just counting current model?? How convenient!!!! I'll be damned if it isn't the same problems as mine just switch A/C condenser for weather stripping. I will not sit here and say all is perfect with honda.

    Here's how I see the advantages(not in any order)
    Honda
    1. Ride and handling - matter of personal opinion, I drove both and there wasn't any difference.
    2. Fit and Finish - This could easily go in DCX favor, especially when you factor in poor fit glove box doors, and ill fitting sliding doors.
    3. 0-60 times - Ohhh wow!! got me by 1.5 seconds here! Remind me not to race you at a red light!!
    4. Standard safety equipment - standard, yeah but available but DCX has some std equipment that's not hyped to death like kneebags and auto flashers for door opening.
    5. Brakeing - Ohhh wow, add 4 feet to my stops after ripping out from a red light trying to catch an Oddy, while some babe in a Miata is beating us both!!!
    6. Engine and transmission - My DCX vans have always be a pleasure to drive
    7. Fuel economy - Ohhh yeah, good winner here (NOT), go poll what Oddy owners are getting close to EPA numbers - not many!! Mine's not broken in and I get 25mpg on highway, 19 around town.

    Dodge
    1. Price
    2. Interior flexibility
    3. Mature product(possibility of less recalls) - LOL, not possibility, but ACTUAL less recalls. and if you go back years and compare recalls....Honda would be lucky to have less total recalls!!
    4. More available options
    5. Flexible configuration to meet any needs..i.e..short wheelbase, long wheelbase, 4cyl vs. 6 cyl
    6. Reliability
    7. dealer network and service
    8. fuel economy
    9. quiet ride
    10. lower repair cost to body damage if in accident
    11. better value

    I think the experts are right on the Caravan is a GOOD but a little old. The price difference and available options make it attractive for some buyers.

    But for my money 180.00 over invoice,the EX-L with RES works great for me!! What dealer did you get this from, is he on this planet???
  • 1996519965 Member Posts: 11
    **3. Mature product(possibility of less recalls) - LOL, not possibility, but ACTUAL less recalls. and if you go back years and compare recalls....Honda would be lucky to have less total recalls!! **

    WOW!! I think he's saying it's PROBABLY why there's fewer recalls.

    **But for my money 180.00 over invoice,the EX-L with RES works great for me!! What dealer did you get this from, is he on this planet??? **

    I'd like to know too... Thanks!!
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Rock Honda Fontana.

    Hell, the SXT got 17MPG and the EX 19 in consumer reports testing. This is not my fault. Eveyone says the overall fuel economy is better still not my fault. iIowned a Dodge for 4+ years now that was my fault. Did you look at all the problems that the long term 2001 DGC had 10 problems/recalls in 2 years and 37,000miles. Reliabilty was like mine BAD!!!! The 1999 honda had 3 problems and 1 was brake pads in 43,000 miles. If you think reliability is good thats your opinion no what all the auto reporting places (consumer reports et all) says again not my fault. Read all the reviews DGC poor fit and finish, Honda Odyssey good fit and finish. Now dennis you said you were in the car business so you would know well all these people are in the car business so they know (Right??) If you what to get from point A to point B and don't want to spend the money the Dodge is the car for you. Also you can say the same things over and over again but the dodge is GOOD and the Honda is Excellent in most reviewers minds. Dodge average reliability. Honda above average. You may have paid less for you van but I think I'll pay less at the pump and the dealer and that is just my opinion(common sense)
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    This was before the 2005 Honda came out, but where does it say Chrysler's fit and finish is poor?

    Read all the reviews DGC poor fit and finish,I

    "Inside the Chrysler’s styling is at least adequate, with sophisticated instrument graphics adding a touch of class. In the upper trim lines the seats continue to be upholstered in either a heavy grained leather (Touring) or a combination of this leather and suede (Limited). Both are attractive. I especially like the leather in the Touring. In either trim the Chrysler’s interior is the most upscale of any minivan. For 2005 the trim on the dash and doors has been revised for a higher-quality, even more upscale look and feel. Fashionable faux metal bits further improve the interior’s ambiance. I personally prefer the Touring, which does without the Limited’s fairly convincing faux wood"
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    There is the mention of poorly fitting interior trim pieces in consumer reports. I was also going by my own problems and my cars fit anfd finish. The 2005 may be improved, but I haven't seen many reviews. Sorry for stating something that maybe misleading. The VSC was the main selling point for me and the dodge I had before had oh so many issues for a 50,000 mile vehicle. I am almost 40 years old and have never replaced a car with less than 100,000 miles. When I bought my 2001 Caravan I got 5,500 off the sticker price. I thought I was getting good value. Well I didn't.It was marginal at best. BTW weren't you the one saying that the car crash data from Honda was being withheld. That data has been out for months. 5 stars all around(a safety concern with front driver side opening from side impact) and best pick for offset(Dodge is acceptable). Along with VSC and standard side airbags. As far as how quite my van is I got 3 kids 3-10 so IT's never quite in there . So I can't really comment on that. I only hear how great the dodge/chrysler vans are here comeon guys show me one reviewer that says dodge/chrysler is the top minivan. All you have is your opinions.
    Here is the other information from the edmunds town and country review that I never see anybody post here! All I see is the tight as a drum quote. I'll give you the pros and cons from edmunds review remember this is a top of the line chrysler.

    Pros Excellent ride and handling, good low-end pull from 3.8-liter V6, roomy and luxurious interior, innovative fold-flat second- and third-row seats.
    Cons Unimpressive reliability history, major safety features remain optional on lower-level models, no stability control

    Chow!!
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    When you talk about resale values, have any of you guys ever heard of the laws of supply and demand? When you have an limited amount of product available (Honda Odyssey's) versus a large amount of product available (DC minivans). The limited supply product always commands a higher price.Reference any High School or College Economics text. If you were a used car dealer and had 5 DC minivans on the lot and only 1 Odyssey, and an owner of either came in asking for a trade in price, who do you think would get the higher trade in value?
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Even what you posted said it had roomy and luxurious interior. Far from what you said before about it. Safety features remain optional, but they can easily be gotten if one wants to pay for it. Some don't. Unimpressive reliability history, I think they have done quite good in safety recalls in the last two years. only two last year, one for a fuel filter and another for a power steering hose. So far this year, it's only been a seat belt re tractor . Honda has had five in the last two years. Last year it was transmissions and fuel pumps. This year it's been electrical, brakes and steering column.

    "I only hear how great the dodge/chrysler vans are here comeon guys show me one reviewer that says dodge/chrysler is the top minivan. All you have is your opinions."

    I have never said the Dodge was a great van. That comes from 99% of the Honda owners about the Ody. They are always cutting down the Dodge van. I am saying the Dodge is a very good van and even though the Ody is a hair faster, turns a few inches shorter, supposedly gets a little better mileage, it's got it's share of problems Dodge/Chryslers minivans don't have. Noise, wind, sliding doors,etc. The difference in problems between the two vans can easily be seen in the posts on 2005 Hondas and 2005 Dodge/Chryslers. Very, very few 2005 Dodge/Chrysler owners are complaining with problems with their vans and they've been out months longer than Honda's. But still Honda owners act like nothing goes wrong with their vans.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Safety features remain optional, but they can easily be gotten if one wants to pay for it

    No VSC can't get it no matter how much you pay. I personally like the safety for everyone, too bad it prices some out of the market!

    When you talk about resale values, have any of you guys ever heard of the laws of supply and demand? When you have an limited amount of product available (Honda Odyssey's) versus a large amount of product available (DC minivans).

    Well how does this explain the Accord and Camry resale values. They are the top selling cars but hold way more value than the Dodge Intepid, Ford Tarus, Saturn L series, or Chevy Malibu. Maybe there is a little more to it. YOU THINK!!! And resale value at the end is a good thing to have. I didn't have any at the end with my caravan and Intrepid.

    Even what you posted said it had roomy and luxurious interior. Far from what you said before about it.

    I like to post the whole review not pick and choose. Edmunds reviews in my opinion are a little short sighted. Here is what consumer reports has to say LOWS- Seat comfort, interior trim materials, some controls and coarse engines.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    towards American vehicles. For instance they rate the Honda Ody as better than average in reliability, even though everything about it is new. But several American cars that are new this year, they only rated them as new. How fair is that?

    This clown that rated the Dodge Caravan said it was noiser than the top rated vans. While almost every 2005 Dodge owner that has commented on their van, has bragged on how quiet it is. No wind noise or rattles like many Honda owners have complained of.

    He says the engine only puts out adequate performance, when several revewers I have posted, claimed it put out a strong performance and was only less than one second slower than the Honda in the quarter mile.

    Then he complains the Dodge hasn't got adjustable arm rests. But no one ever mentions that neither did Toyota or the Saturn. I have never had a car, van or truck with adjustible arm rests. But again, it was his way of belittling the Dodge.

    He complained of the controls being (busy). What the heck does busy mean?

    He said the Dodge rode well at low speeds but on the highway it was unsettling and floaty.

    Read what this one reviewer said about the ride of the Dodge and and what another said of the Honda.

    Ride quality is supple and well-controlled on the highway. The rack-and-pinion steering responds nicely and provides good feedback through the steering wheel. The Grand Caravan tracks true at highway speeds, so there's no need for constant, minor steering corrections. Indeed, the Dodge Grand Caravan offers superb driving dynamics. Grand Caravan rides more softly than an SUV, gliding over potholes rather than trying to beat them into submission. It's an excellent choice when transporting passengers on beat up freeways and bumpy urban streets.


    As on its passenger cars, Honda tuned that suspension tightly. The vocal engine, decent tire grip, and busy ride quality make it feel connected to the road, and the turning radius is nearly as tight as a sedan's. Like the Accord it's based on, the Odyssey gives the feeling that it can be tossed around corners a bit. Taking it up on the offer ruins the illusion, however, mostly because the capsizing feeling that comes with any aggressive turn reminds you of how high you're perched. That, plus too-slow steering, plus the Odyssey's not-so-mini measurements, make mountain runs a nervous affair. It's probably best to be content with the Odyssey's feel in the city, and best to keep it there

    This is from Edmonds,

    Instrumented test numbers aren't typically the first item of concern when discussing minivans, but we feel it's important to mention just how quick the T&C feels for a minivan. At the track, it broke the front tires loose when punched from a dead stop, and the automatic transmission delivered positive upshifts above 5,000 rpm. Shorter, tighter gear ratios would provide even quicker acceleration

    Does that sound like the engine is just adequate?

    Different drivers, different opinions.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    No VSC can't get it no matter how much you pay. I personally like the safety for everyone, too bad it prices some out of the market

    Yeah, even those who need a new Minivan and can't afford $24k for a minivan. Ohh wait, they can buy a new Dodge for less than $20k...ohh they may not have VSC but it would probably beat their old vehicle in many areas.

    Well how does this explain the Accord and Camry resale values. They are the top selling cars but hold way more value than the Dodge Intepid, Ford Tarus, Saturn L series, or Chevy Malibu. Maybe there is a little more to it. YOU THINK!!! And resale value at the end is a good thing to have. I didn't have any at the end with my caravan and Intrepid.

    Guys!!! All anyone wants to talk about is "resale values", true the japanese have higher resale but their initial prices are higher too. Someone posted they saved $5000 on their Dodge, then complained about resale after years of use. He probably now feels great paying about/above MSRP for a Honda though, justifies it, and feel great with his extra $$$ at the end of 5 years. I'd rather have the extra cash NOW to invest, use etc...especially since we're talking Minivans. I think GM is on to something with employee pricing for all. It'll make purchasing str8 forward, like buying a toaster (not to offend but that's what Minivans are to me!!)

    I like to post the whole review not pick and choose. Edmunds reviews in my opinion are a little short sighted. Here is what consumer reports has to say LOWS- Seat comfort, interior trim materials, some controls and coarse engines.

    Hmmm you picked and choosed and added from CR above. From CR March 2005:

    Highs - Interior Flexibility
    Lows - Seat comfort, Interior Trim Mat'l, some controls.

    You're picking "coarse engines" from main body I believe.

    Overall the DCX is "recommended" by CR. For the money, it's hard to beat. My opinion, I love my questionable interior mat'l...perfect for my situation of hauling kids and dogs, camping gear etc... The Honda wouldn't last a month in my household. For example, the backs of my driver/pass seats are hard plastic with hooks built in for grocery bags! Each indentured servant, Opps, Kid, gets to carrying a bag into the house after returning from shopping :) Ohh and the hard plastic takes a beating better than the soft backs of Honda/Toyota. I'm still trying to figure out how to use the hooks to tie the kids down in place, while traveling :P
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Member Posts: 626
    "The price difference and available options make it attractive for some buyers. "

    Not some buyers, MOST buyers. By a large margin
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    ... in number of posts in their Prices Paid and Buying experience boards. It is interesting to note that the numbers of posts since July 28, 2003 were: Dodge/Chrysler vans 215.....Honda Ody posts 5,358. A difference of 5,143.
    I don't think Odys outsell Dodge/Chryslers 25:1. Chrysler owners indifferent?
    Or, Ody owners insecure? ;)
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • davids1davids1 Member Posts: 411
    Or......

    Dodge/Chrysler owners are out driving their vans instead of posting on this board!!!

    Have a nice day.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Look at the Dodge/Chrysler 2005 board. There hasn't been a post on it in three days and the last one was mine I believe. People are not complaining about the 2005 Chrysler minivans like Honda owners are, and there are a lot more people that have bought 2005 Chrysler/Dodge than 2005 Honda's. As a matter of fact, Chrysler minivans sold an all time high in May.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    As a matter of fact, Chrysler minivans sold an all time high in May.

    I believe this is due to "Stow N Go"!!! Funny thing...a buddy of mine works for GM. When he saw mine, he said "We've done market studies on what people want in seating flexibility, and people were very happy with our's, didn't care about folding 2nd row seat".

    Just like driver side sliding doors, I bet everyone is scrambling to copy DCX's!!!!
  • masterpaul1masterpaul1 Member Posts: 421
    All the talk about VSC not being on Daimlerchrysler minivans got me curious. I started thinking about how it is used in a given situation to see it's benefits. Correct me if I'm wrong, but VSC doesn't work when you are braking. Most accidents are from not allowing enough distance from the vechicles in front of you. (Finder benders) You have those that are preoccupied while driving: talking on the cell phone, looking at the NAV screen, putting on make-up, etc. You have those that run red/yellow lights. I read somewhere that having VSC prevented about 50% of accidents. What I would like to know is how did they come up with this number? (Maybe somebody here knows). I think having VSC is a good safety feature, even though we don't have it on either one of our vechicles. But I believe with careful driving, you can avoid accidents with the other current safety vechicle technologies. See, I have a problem with my vechicle being able to drive it's self when I should be telling it what to do. But that's just me. :shades:
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Just like driver side sliding doors, I bet everyone is scrambling to copy DCX's!!!!

    It is amazing how much thought went into designing those sliding side doors. How the motor draws the doors up tight after closing them. How easy they are to open and close, even doing it by hand. How letting people and cars coming up on the van from behind, know someone is about to exit. How the doors lock automatically over 12 mph and how kids can not open the doors until the transmission is in nuetral. Plus the three different ways to open or close them by just pushing buttons. If the motor quits, you can open them by hand inside or out. And that is just the sliding doors.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    It is amazing how much thought went into designing those sliding side doors. How the motor draws the doors up tight after closing them. How easy they are to open and close, even doing it by hand. How letting people and cars coming up on the van from behind, know someone is about to exit. How the doors lock automatically over 12 mph and how kids can not open the doors until the transmission is in nuetral. Plus the three different ways to open or close them by just pushing buttons. If the motor quits, you can open them by hand inside or out. And that is just the sliding doors.

    Also, how the doors won't open when filling gas, so you don't damage your gas door!!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    My other car has DSC (Dynamic Stability Control)....it's 5 years old. In all those years of driving, only once did it kick in to prevent an accident. Once when returning home during a snow storm, on a exit ramp, my back end starting slipping out on ice/snow. DSC kicked in immediately without warning. It was as if nails popped out of my treads and dug into the pavement. It was unbelieveable!!!

    I never should have taken car out....RWD and summer tires.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    I read somewhere that having VSC prevented about 50% of accidents. What I would like to know is how did they come up with this number? (Maybe somebody here knows). I think having VSC is a good safety feature, even though we don't have it on either one of our vechicles. But I believe with careful driving, you can avoid accidents with the other current safety vechicle technologies. See, I have a problem with my vechicle being able to drive it's self when I should be telling it what to do. But that's just me.

    Thats the problem we all think we can drive better than the computer. I've been out of control 4 times in my life(not that ofter I do about 25,000miles+ a year for 20years+, 3 times I was driving along and wtf. Next think I'm spinning, twice while raining. Once I hit some ice. Once the tires lose traction its a waiting game to regain control. Here's how ESC works.

    How ESC works: ESC is an extension of antilock brake technology, which has speed sensors and independent braking for each wheel. For ESC, additional sensors continuously monitor how well a vehicle is responding to a driver's steering input. These sensors detect when a vehicle is about to stray from the driver's intended line of travel (that is, lose control), which usually occurs in high-speed maneuvers or on slippery roads. Then ESC brakes individual wheels automatically to keep the vehicle under control.

    IIHS studies from like cars with and without ESC show 56% decrease in fatal single vehicle crashes. NOW THATS A USEFUL SAFETY FEATURE!!!!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    i am making reference to our 2000 Odyssey EX

    Also, how the doors won't open when filling gas, so you don't damage your gas door!!

    The Honda's door locks when the gas filler door is opened.

    It is amazing how much thought went into designing those sliding side doors. How the motor draws the doors up tight after closing them.


    The Honda's doors close, then pull tightly in line with the bodywork, sealing them.

    How the doors lock automatically over 12 mph and how kids can not open the doors until the transmission is in nuetral.

    The Honda doesen't bother with pesky automatic locks, it requires the tranny to be in park to open them.

    Plus the three different ways to open or close them by just pushing buttons.

    The honda opens via interior/exterior handle, remote key fob, or lockable buttons on the dashboard.

    I am not trying to take sides, just pointing out that these "amazingly thoughtful designs" are common to the New Chryslers and 1999-Current Odyssey EXs... :shades:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    A response to the statement,"Trade-in values are higher on Honda Odyssey because there are so few of them available compared to the DCX vans. the same happened with the Ford Taurus after the market was flooded with them."

    A question for you, hayneldan. If this is the reason, then why are the number one and two selling cars in america, the Toyota Camry, and Honda Accord, taking top dollar resale values? Are they not also flooding the market with well over 400,000 units being sold in America anually (over 100,000 more than the Taurus [which has fleet sales to its benefit])Because they are practically unmatched in reliability, value, and overall excellence. This is also true in the case of Honda Odyssey and Toyota Sienna demanding much higher resale values than DCX, Ford, and GM vans. Supply may play a part, but a small one.

    (I realize that this is a very old post, but reminds people of the real reason people pay more for cars. Quality, value, and excellence in their field. If don't have the money to put into the best car out there, the big three American Comp's offer big rebates, which is great for that set of individuals. Some people don't keep cars long enough to see a difference in reliability (people who lease, for example), but all will see the difference in when trade-in time comes.

    [and before you say anything Dennis or marine2, I am referring to the percentage lost as a whole, not dollar to dollar. I dont expect a $19,000 van to be worth the same $15,000 after 4 years as the $27,000 van is.])
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I will have to agree with you in large. Quality and reliability has more to do with it than numbers out there. I think Toyota has the best quality cars and vans on the market. I do think Honda's reliability isn't as good as people make it out to be though, at least on their minivans. So far my 2004 Civic has been trouble free though.

    But I think we are also seeing a much better Chrysler/Dodge minivan, especially the last two years. There were few problems with last years vans, and if these boards and recalls are any judge, it looks like the 2005 are even better. I can't comment on anything earlier because I didn't follow them.

    As for trade in value, I think that is also about to change. People love stow-n-go. Chrysler just sold a record number in May and I think they'll be hot on the used car market. Especially since no one else has it.

    Socalawd, Esc does sound like a great safety feature. Let's hope all vans and cars have it soon.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    [and before you say anything Dennis or marine2, I am referring to the percentage lost as a whole, not dollar to dollar. I dont expect a $19,000 van to be worth the same $15,000 after 4 years as the $27,000 van is.])

    I don't care if you're talking percentages or dollar to dollar. If you spend $5000 more for you Honda but it retains a higer percentage, you should look at whole big picture (speaking just purchasing here, not leasing). The value of money over time, say 5 years is significant. I paid $19k for mine, a Honda EX with dealer installed tow package approx $29k, add the 6% taxes on the added cost.

    From what I'm seeing in KBB doesn't make the Honda a better buy.

    Just for comparisons.....I went to KBB and checked trade in pricing for 2001 DCX ES and Oddy EX, using power sliding doors on both, 50,000 miles each and both in Excellent condition.....DCX is worth $10,600, Honda $13,350. Assume the Honda buyer paid just sticker for his (which was doubtful back then), and the DCX buyer negotiated $2500k discount, that $2500 would be worth over $3000 now. I would have expected Honda to do significantly better.

    If I had the time, it'd be fun to check out total recalls on both since 1999. I did a few, based on someone else's post. 1999 was terrible for Honda (7 recalls I believe), 2001 was terrible for DCX (6 recalls I believe).

    The perception of the Oddy is at odds with the reality. :shades:
  • mttskysmttskys Member Posts: 23
    Same link with resale/residuals I posted on another board:

    Cars.com minivan residuals

    What I was wondering is why the T&C is 11% higher than the DGC? Just the upscale quality of materials? Should the resale value of the T&C compared to the DGC influence our decisions between the two?

    The 6% diff. between the T&C and the Ody is one thing... but a 17% diff between the Ody and the DGC would be something to note.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Dennis...try to understand this...DC vans don't bring KBB prices! I wish they did since it would make my life easier! I wish I could get someone at KBB to write checks to my customers for what they think their cars are worth!
  • masterpaul1masterpaul1 Member Posts: 421
    Why do we continue to have this conversation about resale value? We all know and can agree that resale value only matters if a vechicle is totaled out or if you plan to sell it in less than 5 yrs. The one that's making the most money off of us after 5 yrs is the dealership. Why would anyone want to buy a used certified vechicle that is 3 yrs old that you are only paying a few thousand less then it was new? Reliability, maybe. For those of us that do purchase domestic used vechicles, we do better since they depreciate more. We pay less money for a new/used vechicle. Where as with a foreign new/used vechicle, you pay a lot more. After you really look at the numbers, you probably might think to yourself that you are better off buying new, since the new/used vechicle is so expensive without the long warranty and has more miles. Our 01 DGC EX at sticker price was around $27K. The only options for this model was driver and passenger side air bags and front license plate bracket. We bought our van in Sep. 2003 for just under $16K with out the taxes. (We had all the options). At that time, it only had 36K, to which we now have 60K. We only had a few minor things replaced from wearing out. (the battery, front end suspension work and gas cap. Both front window regulator motors shouldn't have went). Total was about $400.00 for all repairs. (We have an extended bumper to bumper warranty to 75K or May 2007). Outside of a possible light that might need changing in the gauge cluster and soon have to replace the cargo door lifters later this year, everything else works perfect. :)
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Honda's have a timing belt that needs replacing at about 60,000 miles. At least they use to. At a price of over 250.00, if I remember what my neighbor said correctly. Dodge has a timing chain that doesn't need replacing.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well, you are, indeed mistaken. It's 105,000 miles.

    Timing chains and tensioners wear out too although they have no schedule for replacement.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Was that for the older ones too? My neighbor said she had to replace her's at 60,000 miles. Her car is about six years old.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    It was 60,000 miles until 1989 when it went to 90,000. In 1997, the interval went to 105,000 miles.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I guess her dealer tricked her into doing it sooner by using the old numbers. About like they try to do us, by saying we have to change the oil on our Civic every 3,000 miles when the book say 5,000 with our driving and climate.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Dennis...try to understand this...DC vans don't bring KBB prices! I wish they did since it would make my life easier! I wish I could get someone at KBB to write checks to my customers for what they think their cars are worth!

    What do you recommend for reference purposes then?
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    What do you recommend for reference purposes then?

    Try trading one in. I got 800.00 less than KBB tradein and if my memory is correct from the Dodge prices pais Marine2 got 700.00 less than KBB tradein on his 2002 dodge dakota. Now thats real world BABY!!!
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Hmmm you picked and choosed and added from CR above. From CR March 2005:

    Highs - Interior Flexibility
    Lows - Seat comfort, Interior Trim Mat'l, some controls.

    You're picking "coarse engines" from main body I believe

    This information is on page 37 on the APR 05 issue to the TEE!!!

    I posted this in my post 3517 please read it(well before the post I am replying too)!!!!! I know you like things being repeated over and over again but I only want to write it once. Dennis you are alway complaining about all these little nit picky things glove boxes, weatherstripping, and recalls(in which not one's hade a accident or injury)OH MY!!

    But if I talk about 0-60, VSC, braking, resale value, and reliability you freak out. Relax you made the choice you wanted. You say DGC is the best value, It might be for you but intellichioce say HONDA ODYSSEY!! And I BELIEVE!!!!
  • ClairesClaires Member Posts: 1,222
    Folks, this discussion is intended for comparing the attributes of each vehicle so that prospective buyers can ask questions and make informed decisions -- it's not intended to be a spitting match. I understand the passion that some people here have for their vehicles, and it's great when they can explain why they made their choice. But trashing other people or their vehicles doesn't strengthen anyone's argument. Please stick to the comparisons and leave the insults out of it. Thanks.

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  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Let's start with controls that the idiot called (busy) and hard to read. You might want to explain busy to me, because I have no idea what that nut is talking about. Let's look at what another tester said in evuating the Dodge.

    The instruments are straightforward: big, round analog gauges with white faces. They light up green at night. The dash is canted slightly forward for better visibility. Indicators for the turn signals and high beams are cleverly located in a thin hooded display above the instrument panel where they are easy to see.

    Gee, are these two talking about the same minivan?

    Now lets go to his "Lows - Seat comfort, Interior Trim Mat'l.

    None of the Stow `n Go features would be all that great if the ergonomic design and seat comfort were sub-par. They are first-rate. Super High Density (SHD) foam, originally developed by NASA for astronaut seat comfort, is used for the seats, and it works just as well in a minivan as it does in space. Both first- and second-row seats recline up to 60 degrees for naps, and the second-row seats are adjustable fore-and-aft for legroom.

    We must be talking about two different vans again.

    "You're picking "coarse engines" from main body I believe"

    PERFORMANCE: With 215 horsepower at 5000 rpm and 245 lb-ft of torque at 4000 rpm, the Grand Caravan SXT's 3.8-liter V6 has plenty of power to move the minivan's mass, and it returns reasonable fuel economy as a bonus. An EPA rating of 18 city, 25 highway, with around 20 mpg average may not be in hybrid territory, but is considerably better than any SUV with a similar passenger capacity. Although minivans are not usually thought of as tow vehicles, the SXT can tow up to 2,000 lbs in standard trim, or up to 3,800 lbs with the tow package.

    I remember years ago we would put on new mufflers to try and get that sound. Only trouble, you only hear it when you floor it.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Gee, are these two talking about the same minivan?

    It is funny that people like different things and to one its great and to someone else it junk.

    I have no use for Stow and Go. Never had the seats out of my Caravan in 4+ years.But I do think they're a nice feature. Some say they are comfortable but I wouldn't be sitting back there anyway. ;)

    I think after looking at more information the Dodge/chrysler is trying to get there quality and reliablity(cars get better all the time) up and making strides. I had a 2001 with multiple problems. The 2 reviews I did find on the 2005 touchup said the fit and finish is improved.

    For me plain and simple the Honda with VSC(thats why I didn't even look at dodge), standard side airbags, easy to understand packages and size configuration was right on. If you are looking at this forum drive them both if the features are what you need. The dodge will be a good value if you keep it for 10 years(and the standard warranty is longer)Unlike what you hear the Honda is not selling for over MSRP(Some dealers will try and make you think you have to pay that) I got mine for 3000.00+ under invoice.

    I'm getting ready for a trip to sedona. I'll give you all the Pros and Cons of 7 hours with 3 kids in the Odyssey.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Unlike what you hear the Honda is not selling for over MSRP(Some dealers will try and make you think you have to pay that) I got mine for 3000.00+ under invoice. MSRP EXL-RES 32,610.00 Cars Direct price 30,386.00 What I payed 29,575.00, Invioce 29,387.00.

    Wow I should read what I write sometimes I mean MSRP. That's 3000.00+ less than MSRP. Wow I'm happy I caught that before someone else did.LOL
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I'm getting ready for a trip to sedona. I'll give you all the Pros and Cons of 7 hours with 3 kids in the Odyssey.

    I just went up to Prescot last week in my new Dodge. First time I had to try that big mountain on Rte 17. That old 3.8 engine and four speed tranny flew up that thing. My 2001 Dodge Dakota didn't do that well. It kept down shifting.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Guys, must be nice to claim there's no yardstick for comparisons like this. But you need to use something, not just vague, unsubstantiated numbers. KBB uses statistics from DOTs to calculate numbers so someone's getting them. Maybe Marine2 wanted to sell his car quickly...who knows.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    This information is on page 37 on the APR 05 issue to the TEE!!!

    You are correct, I forgot the automotive issue, was just looking at March Minivan comparison. You may want to be more specific so you don't have to repeat yourself in the future i.e...source, date etc..

    it's funny how CRs adds to the previous comments just a month old. Also...how in the posting the GM offerings are rated as "new" even though that's the furthest from the truth, and the Hondas are rated above? Which is "more" new?? definitely the Honda.

    But if I talk about 0-60, VSC, braking, resale value, and reliability you freak out. Relax you made the choice you wanted. You say DGC is the best value, It might be for you but intellichioce say HONDA ODYSSEY!! And I BELIEVE!!!!

    If we were talking sport cars....0-60, 60-0 would be major attributes worthy of nitpicking over 1.5 seconds or 4 feet. A majority of Minivan buyers could care less, and are more concerned with packaging, flexibility, features the improve the usefulness of their Minivan......Here DCX wins hands down.

    It's easy to claim "resale value" and "reliability" and not back it up with anything substantial. It's easy to ignore recalls or dismiss em but they're affecting someone out there - whether or not anyone's been hurt. I now see there's a serious problem with Honda's AC canisters being easily damaged by stones, some Oddy owners are adding a new "grill" (wire mesh) to their vehicles. Will this become a styling fad for Hondas??? $800 bill - Ouch.

    Regardless of what some "expert" says, people with their own cash are easily picking DCX vans over Honda. BTW - I'm friends with some of these "experts" from the auto mags here in Detroit. They're no better than most of us here, except they have a fun job
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    I just went up to Prescot last week in my new Dodge. First time I had to try that big mountain on Rte 17. That old 3.8 engine and four speed tranny flew up that thing. My 2001 Dodge Dakota didn't do that well. It kept down shifting.

    I took mine on trip from MI to WV camping over memorial day. Was fullly loaded - wife, 2 kids, 2 dogs, bikes, roof carrier and towing a 3500 lbs Coleman trailer.....the 3.8 didn't slow down a bit going up some VERY steep hills with lots of hairpin curves and no guard rails :) ohh and washed out roads too :) I kept her in 3rd gear. 17 mpg going there, 25 mpg coming back (without RV which I left at campsite since we're returning on July 4th week)
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Wow I should read what I write sometimes I mean MSRP. That's 3000.00+ less than MSRP. Wow I'm happy I caught that before someone else did.LOL

    Apparently the recalls and problems are catching up with Honda, dealers are realizing it.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    VSC or ESC is mostly beneficial where understeer or oversteer is involved.i.e Running onto the shoulder on highway...then turning to hard to get vehicle back on road. I have trouble believing the 56% reduction in fatal single car crashes. Maybe, 56% of crashes that involve over/understeer. If you are traveling to fast on slippery roads it wouldn't matter what saftey feature you had...the tires can't grip.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Member Posts: 626
    Dennis...try to understand this...DC vans don't bring KBB prices! I wish they did since it would make my life easier! I wish I could get someone at KBB to write checks to my customers for what they think their cars are worth! "

    Bringing it to a DC dealer or selling it yourself will yield much better results than bringing to a Honda dealer...
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I found this post on a Chrysler Club site.

    Seems like the same kind of message 2005 owners are giving out here. Nothing to write about. the 2005's work just like they should.

    2005 SXT Post

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Had the 2005 GC SXT with Stow-n- Go for eight months now

    Nothing to post about- I'm bored...

    14K so far, Had the oil changed as needed, rotated the tires, the headlights are actually useful (had a '96). Only wish that I sprung for the infinity stereo.
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Member Posts: 626
    Can the stow and go 3rd row seats be easily removed? I didn't know that...
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Can the stow and go 3rd row seats be easily removed? I didn't know that

    Why would you have too? What would be the reason to remove it with Stow-n-Go?
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I can see why some Ody owners never have to remove their seats, they are using roof boxes. If this guy needed more room, there is gobs behind the third seat and just about as much in the two wells under the second row seats of the Dodge/Chryslers. Or he could just stow the third row seat and have all kinds of room with that and the wells under the second row seats. There would be no need to take any seats out.(Or use roof boxes) Although that would still be an option if ever needed.
This discussion has been closed.