Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

jipster · July 2005

Thank you for that fine, perceptive, and very accurate introduction Hans. Yes, my neurtrality on these boards is very well known amoungst my fellow Edmunds members.

The hosts here on Edmunds have tried to present me many awards in testament to that fact...of course I have turned them all down.

Now down to business. Only someone insanely in love with the Ody...who thinks the sun rises and falls in Japan ...would pick the Ody EX over the GC SXT at that $6,000 price difference. But, that is good and fine if that is what they want and need.You want a particular product you have to pay the going rate.I think for most people the difference between the two vans is very little...so they are going to save 6 grand by picking the GC. This may be part of the reason Chrysler sells so many more vans than the Honda Ody.

In parting let me just say this...ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM !!!

macakava · July 2005

Toyota and Honda choose not to play in the low-end of the minivan segment, but rather to differentiate themselves from those players(for minivans).

It is a very sad day when Toyota offers to raise their vehicle prices to help GM and others recover from their bad financial situation.

Employee pricing by the Detroit trio is probably here to stay because that is the true market value of those vehicles. The buying public should expect nothing less!

Sounds like MOOZ MOOZ MOOZ!! (for bloated cows in Detroit)

marine2 · July 2005

I think it's a great idea that American auto makers cut prices to the bone to get rid of 2005 vehicles.

According to JD Powers and Consumer Reports, the quality of American vehicles has come way up. By cutting prices and getting thousands of these vehicles in consumers hands, if the quality is there, they will build brand loyality and when ready to buy again, the chances are good, they'll go back to the same maker. Which is not only good for American manufactures, but good for America.

jipster · July 2005

"Toyota and Honda choose not to play in the low-end of the minivan segment..."

We weren't talking about the low- end segment....which would be the short wheel based Dodge Caravan and Chrysler T&C. We were talking about the $6,000 price difference between the DGC SXT and the Ody EX.Comparitively speaking the Dodge Grand Caravan and extended Chrysler T&C start at about the same price as the Honda Ody LX.. So, take the small wheelbase Chryslers out of the equation and who is the top dawg in sales? Let's compare apples to apples as some of you in these forums is so fond of saying.

Some prefer to spend the extra 6 grand on image...which is fine if that is where you are in life. But, as Hans and the grand Grand Caravan gang are so fond of saying... sales numbers don't lie...or 50 million people can't be wrong...something like that.
The Ody is a very good van...but I've never read of a Chrysler mini owner saying they had to buy a "Mr. Grill" to keep a stray rock from puncturing the a/c condensor.

macakava · July 2005

"Some prefer to spend the extra 6 grand on image..."

Many of us choose to pay the extra to get the better energetic, engaging driving performance.

From the 70+ rentals of DGC's, including some brand-new loaded T & C's, I can see and experience the big difference each time I am in one.

Again, it all depends on your preference in the wide driving spectrum I have described in earlier memos.

nwng · July 2005

Just priced out a GC SXT on edmunds, comparably equipped with a ex: $24819. I don't know if this is what others are paying.

Edmunds tmv for the ex has been quite high for sometime, pretty much every one on the ody board ( and in da club) has been paying around $26k for a ex for quite sometime.

standard on the GC and quite important to many people besides the price difference is the power pedal and lift gate. If my wife is the primary driver, that might very well be the deal closer.

hansienna · July 2005

Normally have the 3.3L V6 which never claimed to have the performance of the Ody 3.5L V6...but the DC 3.3L V6 does deliver better fuel economy and is quieter than the Ody in real world driving. I know because one son has a 2001 Ody EX he purchased new and another son has a 2002 GC Sport he purchased used. My 2002 T&C LX is also quieter and smoother riding than the Ody EX.
However, the 2002 and later Ody had a bump in power and also got a 5 speed AT that makes it feel quicker than the 01 and earlier Ody.
After experiencing the comfort of separately controlled temperature for the driver and front passenger in the 2002 GC Sport, my wife and I could not own a vehicle without this feature that had been available only on luxury vehicles until DC offered it in most DC minivans beginning in 1996. Honda finally included the luxury feature in all 2005 Odysseys except the cheap Ody LX model.

Claires · July 2005

Nwng, to find out what others are paying (or have paid), stop into the Prices Paid & Buying Experience Forum.

socalawd · July 2005

but the DC 3.3L V6 does deliver better fuel economy and is quieter than the Ody in real world driving.
So far I have been getting better than 21mpg on my odyssey. My 2001 caravan SE got just over 17mpg (22MPG on the Odyssey)and the tranmission whine and the noise(with of course no go)when I tried to pass someone was horrible. I was coming back from san elijo and was smiling and saying to my wife how smooth and quiet this van is compared to the old one.

After experiencing the comfort of separately controlled temperature for the driver and front passenger in the 2002 GC Sport, my wife and I could not own a vehicle without this feature that had been available only on luxury vehicles until DC offered it in most DC minivans beginning in 1996. Honda finally included the luxury feature in all 2005 Odysseys except the cheap Ody LX model.

If your buying a EX this is not a problem Hans. Although the history and romance is interesting, the wonders of 1996 DCX minivans are lost on me.

hansienna · July 2005

JUST the facts. My son's 02 GC Sport got better gas mileage and was quieter than another son's 01 Ody EX. My 02 T&C LX gets better gas mileage and is quieter than the 01 Ody EX.

isellhondas · July 2005

You keep talking about this 6000.00 dollar price difference and I don't know where you get this?

People read and believe this stuff, you know.

You also don't bring up the horrific resale value Chrysler minivans have down the road. I have to deal with this on a daily basis when people want to trade them in on Odysseys.

As far as buying a "Mr. Grill" ?? Only in these forums have I ever heard of this.

socalawd · July 2005

JUST the facts. My son's 02 GC Sport got better gas mileage and was quieter than another son's 01 Ody EX. My 02 T&C LX gets better gas mileage and is quieter than the 01 Ody EX.

Ok maybe true I have no idea how ethier of these people drive. Also get a db meter drive them down the same street and we got something. Then we have the issue talking about a 2001 ody and a 2002 chrysler, when people are looking at 2005 vehicles that are at least in the case of the Honda it is much different.

jipster · July 2005

What...you think I'm making stuff up? We already know I don't do that.

I'm just repeating what I read on other posts here on Edmunds, as well as past/current rebates/incentives on the various makes of minivan.

Ask Dennistic( Post # 3991) in Honda Odyssey 2005+ about pricing. He wrote he saved $10,000 on his DGC over a comparable Ody EX. Since he has posted that figure(about 20 times) & explained how he got there, I tend to believe him.

You throw in a 3k-4k rebate, plus 1-2k dealer financing,loyalty rebates,special incentives etc., all of that off the invoice price...and it is easy to see how a 6k price difference is possible. Though I would say for a lot of people it is ONLY about 4k-5K.

The differences in resale is negated (90%) due to the Chrysler minis lower initial purchase price. Yes, Ody resale is good. Which is not good for those in the market for good preowned vehicles. I would not purchase a preowned Ody(or Sienna) because of it. Better off to buy new... or models 4 or 5 years old or older.

On the Mr. Grill... I have heard Honda has been selling as many of those "Mr. Grills" as George Foreman has lean, mean grilling machines.

socalawd · July 2005

Some prefer to spend the extra 6 grand on image...which is fine if that is where you are in life. But, as Hans and the grand Grand Caravan gang are so fond of saying... sales numbers don't lie...or 50 million people can't be wrong...something like that.

I have no problems with my image or what people think of me!!! I bought the odyssey for the standard safety VSC(which you can't get on DCX vans no matter how much money you have) side airbags, and superior offset crash scores. The handling and comfort are also in my opinion better. I looked on cars direct.com and a Dodge GC SXT is 23,681(No Options) and Honda Ex is 26,681. This is much closer to what normal people will get!! Dennis can post what he wants about his experience but it's unique and sets the honda at MSRP or above which is not the case at this time. BTW I checked and Honda dosen't sell anything for the Grill!!!! Are you just making it up to prove a point???

marine2 · July 2005

If you go to Chrysler's home site, they show the base Chrysler Town & Country priced at, $22,065. With employee discount, brings it down to $19,712. Then $2,000 cash allowance, brings the final total to $17,712. I would imagine if you bought the more expensive model with all the goodies on it, it would be about $6-8,000 less than sticker. As it is, you save over $5,350 on the cheaper model.

As for Isell, I don't think your going to see that big depreciation on the Stow-n-Go vans as you saw on the others. It's not showing here like that.

marine2 · July 2005

The Dodge doesn't have the VSC that you like and side airbags are optional. But the DGC SXT has a lot of stuff on it as standard that the Honda EX, also does not have but on the higher priced models or also does not offer at all. Such as elect. rear hatch, over head computer, battery saver, auto locks, signal lights that warn people coming up from behind, that someone is exiting the side doors.Cassette, plus CD, am/fm radio. Not sure if Honda offers radio controls on the steering wheel on the EX.

masterpaul1 · July 2005

We have a 2001 DGC EX with the 3.8L V6 with over 62K, mostly city miles, that gets between 17 to 18 MPG city and around 24 to 25 MPG Highway. Now from what I've been seeing here in Edmunds, our four year old DGC is getting about the same gas mileage as the new Honda 3.5L V6 with the VCD. Go figure.

marine2 · July 2005

I still have the sticker price on my DodgeGC SXT. Base sticker price was $26,680 plus $400.00 for the optional power liftgate. Brings sticker to $27,776 with $680.00 destination charge

Besides some of the things I listed before as standard, and what usually comes standard on all vans, I won't list. This is the rest, all standard on this van.

Four wheel disc anti lock brakes
Traction Control
Dual slidding doors,
Three Zone A/C
Power rear quarter vent windows
Remote keyless entry with engine Immobilizer
Leather wrapped steering wheel with radio controls
Eight way power seat on drivers side
Lockable storage bin under passenger's side seat
Power, heated, fold away, outside mirrors,
Overhead computer and universal garage door opener
AM/FM radio, with CD and cassette and six speakers.
Illuminated vanity mirrors
Fog Lamps
16 inch Aluminum wheels
Driver's knee blocker air bag
Cruise control
Roof Rack
Stow-n-Go seats
7 year or 70,000 mile powertrain warranty.

I take it all have power windows, door locks, automatic tranny & etc.

I bought it back last Dec. for $23, 750.50 with zero percent financing.

hansienna · July 2005

BUT...the 2004 Sienna LE WAS more responsive than the 2005 Ody EX when the accelerator was pushed hard to the floor...at any speed.

Overall I like the 2005 Ody EX better than the 2004 Sienna LE or my 2002 T&C LX....but I cannot convince myself that the 05 Ody EX is worth $27,206 vs 05 Sienna LE $24,900 vs 05 GC SXT $23,147. :confuse:

socalawd · July 2005

If you go to Chrysler's home site, they show the base Chrysler Town & Country priced at, $22,065. With employee discount, brings it down to $19,712. Then $2,000 cash allowance, brings the final total to $17,712.

Marine this is the SWB model with no stow n go and no antilock brakes. I had a similiar van for over 4 years anybody who thinks this is a deal should know better. I've seen this same van advertised for 16K in LA. The employee discount is a great marketing hype. People think they're getting someting but cars direct was lower on most GM models than the employee discount.

socalawd · July 2005

Now from what I've been seeing here in Edmunds, our four year old DGC is getting about the same gas mileage as the new Honda 3.5L V6 with the VCD. Go figure

It's VCM and thats great for you I didn't have near the experience you did!! The Honda is the best vehicle I have ever owned for my family. Love the features, not just the gas mileage!!

marine2 · July 2005

Marine this is the SWB model with no stow n go and no antilock brakes. I had a similiar van for over 4 years anybody who thinks this is a deal should know better. I've seen this same van advertised for 16K in LA. The employee discount is a great marketing hype. People think they're getting someting but cars direct was lower on most GM models than the employee discount.

It's about $300.00 more saved than what I got. But I also got zero Financing.

I knw it's the short one without S&G. Not sure how much better the discounts would be for the SXT DGC

dennisctc · July 2005

Marine this is the SWB model with no stow n go and no antilock brakes. I had a similiar van for over 4 years anybody who thinks this is a deal should know better. I've seen this same van advertised for 16K in LA. The employee discount is a great marketing hype. People think they're getting someting but cars direct was lower on most GM models than the employee discount

Nice thing.....Some people can't afford $24k for a new Oddy/DCX van, so what are they suppose to do? Buy a 2000 Oddy with 80k, questionable tranny and history or a new DCX van with warranty, better finance than used?

masterpaul1 · July 2005

Thanks for the correction. I was already typing my message when I thought about the VCM and couldn't remember the letters. So I guess in away, I made up something. Variable Cylinder De activation = VCD. I love our van, how it rides and all it's features. The 2005 Ody. is a very nice van, but if I had a choice between the two. I would stick with our 01 DGC EX. The only things that I would like to have on our van that is not a need is VSC, entertainment system, right side power sliding door, trip computer, automatic load leveling system and nav. system. I can have all of these installed on our van except the VSC, right side power sliding door and trip computer.

dennisctc · July 2005

What...you think I'm making stuff up? We already know I don't do that. I'm just repeating what I read on other posts here on Edmunds, as well as past/current rebates/incentives on the various makes of minivan.

Ask Dennistic( Post # 3991) in Honda Odyssey 2005+ about pricing. He wrote he saved $10,000 on his DGC over a comparable Ody EX. Since he has posted that figure(about 20 times) & explained how he got there, I tend to believe him.

You throw in a 3k-4k rebate, plus 1-2k dealer financing,loyalty rebates,special incentives etc., all of that off the invoice price...and it is easy to see how a 6k price difference is possible. Though I would say for a lot of people it is ONLY about 4k-5K.

The differences in resale is negated (90%) due to the Chrysler minis lower initial purchase price. Yes, Ody resale is good. Which is not good for those in the market for good preowned vehicles. I would not purchase a preowned Ody(or Sienna) because of it. Better off to buy new... or models 4 or 5 years old or older.

On the Mr. Grill... I have heard Honda has been selling as many of those "Mr. Grills" as George Foreman has lean, mean grilling machines.

Yeah, I admit I'm in a slightly different boat (Ugh....Detroit

but $5k is easily doable. I also think the Oddy resale is going to be effected by poor quality and recalls. I don't see much proof of the much touted "Honda Responsiveness" on these issues. Least they could do is throw in Mr. Grill with each purchase!!

We could go on for days with "My van has this, your's doesn't" even with safety systems like DCX's knee airbags, or Honda's stability control.

Of course "Isellhondas" doesn't want people to realize there's a huge price difference between the two. What Honda salesperson would want that known?

socalawd · July 2005

Yeah, I admit I'm in a slightly different boat (Ugh....Detroit but $5k is easily doable. I also think the Oddy resale is going to be effected by poor quality and recalls. I don't see much proof of the much touted "Honda Responsiveness" on these issues. Least they could do is throw in Mr. Grill with each purchase!!

Dennis you know and I know only a small amount of the Odyssey sold have recalls. Do I have to post the numbers again?? The price difference if you get something close to the EX in the SXT is about 3 grand!! Look at TMV carsdirect or Dodge website and copare to prices paid on this site. There is no Mr. Grill available so please stop pushing that junk. Look back at initial quality from JD powers for the odyssey since 1999 it's really never been great. But the wierd thing is look at long term quailty of the same year it's top notch. Now there's a car company that stands behind there vehicles. Not like I had to stand behind my Intrepid at just over 50,000 miles to push it off the road.

We could go on for days with "My van has this, your's doesn't" even with safety systems like DCX's knee airbags, or Honda's stability control.

This is what we are debating here. BTW I think Hans should buy a Dodge SXT it's his kind of vehicle!!! 50 million people can't be wrong can they???

dennisctc · July 2005

Well the Honda is Edmunds most wanted consumer and editor. Also the TCO of the EX for 5 years is 39,500 and the Dodge SXT is 45,000. So there's a way to get your money back. Pay me now or pay me later. I've had zero problems with my van. The initial quaility is great.

I wonder if Edmunds takes into account ALL variables...i.e...Rebates, Financing. I don't think they do.

I've also had zero problems with my van and initial quality is great!

hansienna · July 2005

Edmunds provides a great service in providing pricing data on new and used vehicles. However, Edmunds does NOT use the discounted pricing of new DC minivans. (My post will probably be deleted for obvious reasons). And as with any other pricing guide for used vehicles, Edmunds uses a percentage factor for any model of a particular brand applied across the board to the MSRP instead of using the actual vehicle content.
All said, Edmunds is still THE BEST SOURCE for data

dennisctc · July 2005

There is no Mr. Grill available so please stop pushing that junk.

Sorry Socalawd and other Honda owners, here's the posting to help you guys order Mr. Grill and save a $800 repair bill! Just being helpful here!!!

#459 of 514 Grille insert for 2005 Ody by rsblaski Jun 17, 2005 (6:39 pm)
Bookmark | Reply | E-mail Msg
A big thank you to jjtrindc for his info regarding Mr. Grille.
I just ordered the grille insert and will get 2 day UPS delivery for only $12 more.
You can find Mr. Grille with a simple search. Their phone # is 951-279-4360.
Having had one condensor replaced already, I figure $99 is cheap insurance against an $800+ repair (which Desert Honda, Las Vegas graciously picked up without my even asking).
We are taking a really long trip, picking up the grandkids in Wisconsin, driving to Florida to visit my mom and then to Disneyworld for a week.
On the way, we will stop at Mammoth Cave and Stone Mountain.
After that, a few more days with mom, then home to Nevada until we take the kids back home in August.
We'll probably log 10,000 miles in all, but it will give us a chance to spend time with the grandkids and have them visit with my mom.

FYI - I in no way, shape or form am endorsing Mr. Grill, since my DCX van doesn't need one. :P

hansienna · July 2005

THANKS for the posting. I like the 2005 Ody EX even though the 2004 Sienna LE had more pep. I was ready to place a deposit on a NEW 2006 Ody EX but the memory of the more exhilarating performance of the Sienna LE was too over powering...especially after reading the posts by mac on the outstanding power of the Ody.

I will write down the data on Mr. Grille to protect my new 2006 Odyssey if I don't get a Sienna LE or XLE because of the Sienna more responsive engine and transmission.
There would be no question on which minivan to buy if the Denver Region would sell the Sienna XLE without the stupid, over priced, mandatory option groups.

Claires · July 2005

Folks, a number of posts were removed this evening for being off-topic/disrespectful. Please remember that this is the "Odyssey vs. Dodge/Chrysler Minivan Discussion"... not the "Odyssey Owners vs. Dodge/Chrysler Minivan Owners Spitting Contest." Posts that continue to disrupt the discussion will be removed.

macakava · July 2005

"You keep talking about this 6000.00 dollar price difference and I don't know where you get this?

People read and believe this stuff, you know.

You also don't bring up the horrific resale value Chrysler minivans have down the road. I have to deal with this on a daily basis when people want to trade them in on Odysseys."

ISell: It is obvious that some folks have never attended the class, "Economics 101", that addresses the law of Supply and Demand!

macakava · July 2005

"We have a 2001 DGC EX with the 3.8L V6 with over 62K, mostly city miles, that gets between 17 to 18 MPG city and around 24 to 25 MPG Highway. Now from what I've been seeing here in Edmunds, our four year old DGC is getting about the same gas mileage as the new Honda 3.5L V6 with the VCD. Go figure."

For the same gas mileage with 40+ more HP in the Ody. Now that's remarkable!!
This is another positive performance differentiator!

macakava · July 2005

"This is what we are debating here. BTW I think Hans should buy a Dodge SXT it's his kind of vehicle!!! 50 million people can't be wrong can they??? "

TOTALLY AGREE! It is like an older married man(wife is DGC SXT) lusting for a sexy, lusty woman(Ody EX), but realize that he does not have the energy, assets and similar interests to keep her happy.

dennisctc · July 2005

"This is what we are debating here. BTW I think Hans should buy a Dodge SXT it's his kind of vehicle!!! 50 million people can't be wrong can they??? "

TOTALLY AGREE! It is like an older married man(wife is DGC SXT) lusting for a sexy, lusty woman(Ody EX), but realize that he does not have the energy, assets and similar interests to keep her happy.

Soooo Sad Guys!!!, if you truly think any minivan sexy or lusty!!!! Let alone a Japanese car.....they aren't known for their timeless styling! When was the last time you lusted after an old Supra or something???

dennisctc · July 2005

"You keep talking about this 6000.00 dollar price difference and I don't know where you get this?

People read and believe this stuff, you know.

You also don't bring up the horrific resale value Chrysler minivans have down the road. I have to deal with this on a daily basis when people want to trade them in on Odysseys."

ISell: It is obvious that some folks have never attended the class, "Economics 101", that addresses the law of Supply and Demand!

Try checking with your local DCX dealer, add the employee pricing and cash incentives, plus what dealers are willing to add......$6000 is very doable!!!! Ohh you could also go to other areas of this forum and see it too.

There should be no Supply and Demand issues any more with Oddys, since Honda brought up a second plant ..... should be plenty of capacity.

Take the $6000, put it in a bank earning just 5%/year.....in 5 years you have $7500, add that to the "horrific resale" and see which horse wins. Take the $6000 and blow it on a family vacation with timeless memories.

Ohhh another point, what Honda dealers actually want used DCX vans sitting on their used car lots??? NONE! Same for DCX dealers. So of course Isellhondas will give lowest possible trade in.

macakava · July 2005

The statement was used as an analogy! I am not sure if some folks get it.

Think more about the present.

Lexus SC430, 350Z or even the rear end of the Quest for some - curvy lines, sensuous, etc

Now think about the present Aztec from Pontiac today .... YUCK!

But then Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Just look at your partner.

dennisctc · July 2005

Think more about the present.

Lexus SC430, 350Z or even the rear end of the Quest for some - curvy lines, sensuous, etc

Now think about the present Aztec from Pontiac today .... YUCK!

But then Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Just look at your partner.

Key point "Present"......i'm thinking longer term. I think German cars, by far, exhibit timeless stying, with Detroit coming in second and Japan third. Personally, I can look at mid 80s BMW and still see a sharp looking car. Then I see an old Supra or Celica and wonder who designed it, especially since the Japanese have had CA design studios since the late 70s!!

macakava · July 2005

It is only when the American designers had more say/influence in Japanese designs for western use that we see the changes to our tastes.

Relatively, Hyundai and others did not have to go through that long evolution vs the Japanese. The 2006 Sonata, by copying some lines from other cars like Accord, etc is a good example.

Another analogy. German cars, relative to Japanese or even American cars for that matter, are like men who have faithful wives but seek out/keep mistresses who require high maintenance. And it is true - these expensive cars have the lowest reliability ratings and require high maintenance!

macakava · July 2005

"Take the $6000, put it in a bank earning just 5%/year.....in 5 years you have $7500, add that to the "horrific resale" and see which horse wins. Take the $6000 and blow it on a family vacation with timeless memories. "

For those of us who enjoy drivng a good handling sporty vehicle daily, that $6K, if it exists for feature to feature comprison/equivalency, pales in comparison to the extra driving enjoyment for those of us who are at that end of the driving preference spectrum.

"Ohhh another point, what Honda dealers actually want used DCX vans sitting on their used car lots??? NONE! Same for DCX dealers. So of course Isellhondas will give lowest possible trade in."

It's human nature as well as for a business because it is run by humans. A business with superior performing products has little/no interest in selling lower performing products. However if a customer(a wannabee for a better product) comes in and cannot afford the more expensive product, a savvy salesman would sell him a cheaper lower performing product if he can make a good profit on it. :P

nwng · July 2005

feature for feature, i still don't know how you get a price difference of $6k, unless you go with the screamer ad prices. you're looking at a comparably equipped dcx van for $20k. I would have sacrifice the tighter handling, nicer interior and comfy seats if i could get one at that price.

On another note regarding power. 40 more hp is meaningless if you are driving by yourself or with one passenger, but if you put 6 or more people (which I routinely do) in the van, the difference is huge. That's how i test drove the ody, caravan, sienna, quest before I picked the ody.

marine2 · July 2005

To be honest, I am very hesitant to purchase a domestic brand.

It's human nature as well as for a business because it is run by humans. A business with superior performing products has little/no interest in selling lower performing products. However if a customer(a wannabee for a better product) comes in and cannot afford the more expensive product, a savvy salesman would sell him a cheaper lower performing product if he can make a good profit on it.

There has been very few complaints on the Chrysler/Dodge vans from 2002-2005. In long term quality, JD Powers said G.M has "the top model in eight categories, the most of any manufacture" The Chevy Malibu and Buick Century beat out Honda Accord, Toyota Camery and Toyota Avalon. Ford had two brands, ranking eight and twelth. Chrysler was the only brand to beat the industry average and even beat out parent Mercedes-Benz. So lets hear it for domestics once again.

I put down what I paid for my van and what it has on it. I asked Honda or Toyota owners to tell me what they paid or would have to pay to get the same options on it. Haven't heard one come back yet. Maybe because it would be over $6,000 difference and you still wouldn't have a lot of the things the Dodge has?

Believe me, very few people can even tell if a van shifts 4 or 5 times. Most don't even care as long as it shifts.

socalawd · July 2005

Take the $6000, put it in a bank earning just 5%/year.....in 5 years you have $7500, add that to the "horrific resale" and see which horse wins. Take the $6000 and blow it on a family vacation with timeless memories.

Your getting 5% in the bank?? Maybe a long term CD?? I'm getting 2.8 in a money market right now looking for some good stocks to buy!! I paid cash for my car but most people would finance! You have to pay tax on earned interest so subtract some of that money. Better to increase the amount going to your 401K or paying off credit card debt. I think the horse race would be very close. I'm keeping the car for 10 years so it dosen't matter to me. I just found a car I really liked(It had all the things I wanted)and bought it(paid 180.00 over invoice)!!! My best family vacations aren't ones that cost alot of money I love camping or going to a nationial park!! Talk about memories!! I've done the big vacation thing a few times in my life and usually overplan!! Making everyone crazy LOL

masterpaul1 · July 2005

For the same gas mileage with 40+ more HP in the Ody. Now that's remarkable!!
This is another positive performance differentiator!

Correct me if I'm wrong, when 3 of the 6 cylinders shut down on the Ody., you should be consuming less gas and seeing a higher MPG in city and highway miles. The Dodge runs on all 6 cylinders all the time in city and highway miles. Yet the Dodge gets the same gas mileage, if not better, then the new Ody.'s engine. So it would seem that even though 3 cylinders shut down on the Ody. it still consumes more gas then our Dodge. As for the HP on the Ody., maybe you can explain to us how do you still produce 255 HP when running on only 3 cylinders? :surprise:

socalawd · July 2005

So it would seem that even though 3 cylinders shut down on the Ody. it still consumes more gas then our Dodge. As for the HP on the Ody., maybe you can explain to us how do you still produce 255 HP when running on only 3 cylinders?

I won't say which one gets better gas mileage my experience so far is that the Honda will!! The 255 HP is there when you want it. There are also a few things about the VCM that people that don't own a Odyssey EX-L and above wouldn't know. The VCM dosen't come on at under 15MPH, as the car warms up(until at temp), or over 80 MPH.

Here's a link to the motor trend article on the dodge sxt vs honda odyssey vs toyota sienna. They say the dodge got 18.4MPG and honda got 19.8MPG in the test. Also look at those passing numbers. It's nice to be able to merge onto the freeway(damn 405) easily!!

link title

hansienna · July 2005

Another reason I prefer the 2005 Ody EX (cloth) over the EX-L or Touring.
The first 2005 Ody (demonstrator) was a loaded EX-L with VCM. The VCM worked well and hard to tell when it activated or deactivated. Since they had sold the demonstrator (once the mandatory period set by Honda had expired), my recent test drive was in an Ody EX (cloth).
Living where winters are cold and summers are hot, we feel that cloth seats are more comfortable.

socalawd · July 2005

The first 2005 Ody (demonstrator) was a loaded EX-L with VCM. The VCM worked well and hard to tell when it activated or deactivated. Since they had sold the demonstrator (once the mandatory period set by Honda had expired), my recent test drive was in an Ody EX (cloth).
Living where winters are cold and summers are hot, we feel that cloth seats are more comfortable

Cold leather is the worst. The VCM is good if you take alot of road trips and set the cruise to 70. If not the gas savings aren't alot. I still love to watch the ECO light come on!!! I heard the cloth is nice right Marine!! LOL

dennisctc · July 2005

feature for feature, i still don't know how you get a price difference of $6k, unless you go with the screamer ad prices. you're looking at a comparably equipped dcx van for $20k. I would have sacrifice the tighter handling, nicer interior and comfy seats if i could get one at that price.

On another note regarding power. 40 more hp is meaningless if you are driving by yourself or with one passenger, but if you put 6 or more people (which I routinely do) in the van, the difference is huge. That's how i test drove the ody, caravan, sienna, quest before I picked the ody.

I decided on the Dodge because I didn't want to sacrifice $10k, a better warranty, interior flexibility, softer ride, and better tow capacity. On top of that, I was leary of first model year vehicle - even from Honda!

HP power is only one aspect of performance, as any automotive engineer will attest to. Torque is also critical, and where in RPM range does it kick in. For all the HP advantage Honda has, it doesn't provide for that huge a performance difference, and VCM has marginal, if any real world benefit according to owners here.

FYI - just for giggles, I'm checking with Golling Dodge (www.golling.com) on a price for DGC SXT....to include latest deals.

dennisctc · July 2005

"You keep talking about this 6000.00 dollar price difference and I don't know where you get this?

Here's one posting from prices paid area for DCX:

#66 of 68 Dodge Caravan SXT price negotiating by antelope1 Jul 17, 2005 (2:00 pm)
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I posted this on the T&C forum since that is where I started out (Looking for a T&C) so sorry for double-posting if you read both:

Went to look at the Dogdge Caravan SXT since it looks like a very similar car to the T&C. Found one with package I wanted, and after EP and rebate came to $21,073 (Included Bronze paint, 2nd row Bucket seats, entertainment package, etc.) This time, I tried to make it clear I didn't want to spend more than $18,000 before he even showed me a car. I said how I liked the car, but it was too much. I kept throwing out numbers and finally made it up to $20,000....but he kept saying that the EP minus rebate is as low as they can go. So I told him I would have to sleep on it.

I just want to hear if someone has negotiated a price (without trade-in) that is lower than EP minus trade in this month so I know if I can get them lower. $20,000 might be a stretch, but $20,500 should be OK on a price of $21,073, right?

BTW, this dealer is offering a Christmas in July deal - pick an envelop of the tree and get an additional $500 - $5000 off. I figure at a minimum, the $500 would cover taxes, tags, fees, and dealer-add ons.

marine2 · July 2005

Correct me if I'm wrong, when 3 of the 6 cylinders shut down on the Ody., you should be consuming less gas and seeing a higher MPG in city and highway miles. The Dodge runs on all 6 cylinders all the time in city and highway miles. Yet the Dodge gets the same gas mileage, if not better, then the new Ody.'s engine.

I'm pretty sure the Honda gets a little better mileage than the Dodge. But it seems to be only one or two miles per gallon better .I am sure the Honda is a little faster, but as I posted before with several testers, the Dodge has plenty of power to merge onto freeways, pass and climb hills. Even Edmonds talks about the power in the Dodge. Although the five speed tranny is nice, most people don't even feel the difference in the shifting of a four speed and five speed tranny. Most people want a van that has good power to get them up to traffic speed and decent mileage. Both vans do that.

So now lets look at some of the things that makes things easier for people who owns the two vans. If your carrying eight people, the Honda is better. Dodge only carries seven. If your carrying a lot of stuff, Dodge is easier, the second and third row seats will stow, Honda owners have to take their second row seats out.

Storage. Dodge, hands down over all makes.

Keeping the vans cool. I am sure both have good a/c in them. But Honda doesn't have the rear wing windows to open, to allow even flow of a/c all through the van. The Dodge does. Honda has the second row windows that open half way down. But that doesn't help circulate the a/c and is only useful if you stop in a drive-in restaurant to hang a tray on to it. Most people don't drive with their windows open because of pollution. Advantage Dodge.

Dodge has a power saver, which shuts off power to over head lights if one or more is left on, or if door is not shut tight. Honda doesn't even offer it. From the complaints I've read of dead batteries on the Honda, many Honda owners wish they did.

Auto door locks, standard on Dodge. Honda doesn't even offer it either

Overhead computer, universal garage door opener, compus. Dodge has it, Honda doesn't.

Rear electric hatch. Can be had on all but cheapest models of Dodge for $400.00 more. Honda only offers it on the more expensive models that cost over $30,000.

Tire pressure monitor, Dodge has it, one Honda owner said Honda doesn't.?

Air bags. Honda offers front and side as standard, Side bags on Dodge are extra. But Dodge has driver's knee protector air bag as standard, Honda doesn't offer it at all.

Turn signal warning to drivers or pedestrians coming up on van, that someone is exiting side doors. Dodge has them, Honda doesn't offer it.

There are a few more things Dodge has that I don't think Honda offers, but I won't put them down as I am not sure if Honda does or not. I haven't heard one way or the other.

Am/Fm radio with both CD and cassette with steering wheel controls,can be had on mid priced Dodge. Not sure if Honda offers both on any model.

Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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