Toyota Corolla Maintenance and Repair

footie · December 2002

If you are smelling 'rotten eggs' its almost certainly Hydrogren Sulfide.

Hydrogen Sulfide is dangerous in levels above 10 ppm. The nose can detect 1 ppm or less.

Hydrogen Sulfide is heavier than air. In an automobile if you are smelling it, it's getting circulated at head height for a least long enough to be picked up by your nose.

It's posionous and flammable. If you are experiencing this you should get informed about the danger of this gas.

It's affects are most pronounced when concentrations are highest. The smell goes from rotten eggs to a sweet smell. At these levels it can be fatal.

See the work advice at the Paper, Allied-industrial, Chemical and Energy workers webstie for a good brief on the effects of Hydrogen Sulfide.

The union is called PACE (paceunion). The have a .org website. And on that site you can find the information by looking for health_&_safety.htm.

corolla03 · December 2002

Thanks.
So, what can we do about the rotten egg smell?

nippononly · January 2003

a well-established issue now, and I am wondering if anyone has asked their dealer to fix it, and if so, what happened?

If not, someone should take theirs to their dealer and demand that the smell be removed!

boilerman · January 2003

ALL these Toyota dealers at least give you the same song and dance on the continued SULFUR SMELL that continues in a lot of 2003 Corollas (including mine). Vote for your choice of the BS story you get from them

A) Change gas and it will go away

EVERY new Toyota smells this way

C) SMELL? What smell?

D) Quit Complaining! The Nose Plugs we throw in for free!

*** For entertainment purposes only... LOL
Are these Toyota Dealers ex-politicians?

nippononly · January 2003

I have the Matrix which has the same engine as the corolla, and I have also been annoyed at how long it has to crank sometimes before it will turn over. Funny thing is, you expect a car to be harder to sart when it is cold, but mine always goes quicker at cold start-up than when it is warm, when it will crank for so long sometimes that I will give up before it actually fires.

I have a laundry list of little things like this that I want addressed at the first maintenance.

8u6hfd · January 2003

somedude: A lot of people have been complaining about chips on new cars as of late. At the auto store (and hardware store) you can purchase this "Rust Converter" which neutralizes the rust and forms a protective coating.

vishalthorat: Somewhat stupid response: If you turn the steering wheel all the way, what you're hearing is the power steering pump. I hope this is what you're talking about. It is normal, and you turn don't want to hear this noise because it will damage the pump if the steering wheel stays at its extreme position for extended amount of time (less than a minute can wreck that pump)

tja2 · January 2003

Using the contact us portion of their website I recently sent a note to Toyota Canada (www.toyota.ca) regarding the sulphur smell in my 03 Corolla. I received the following response:

"Thank you for your recent correspondence.

The smell that you are referring to is caused by the high sulphur
content in Canadian gasoline. The smell is in fact indicative that
your 2003 Toyota Corolla is operating properly. This is not an
uncommon situation with most manufacturers today.

The sulphur contained in the fuel transforms into sulphur dioxide
which is then transformed into sulphur trioxide by oxidation and
accumulates on the catalyst resulting in hydrogen sulphide by
reduction. This will generally occur when the vehicle begins to run
rich, such as when you are stopped, climbing a steep hill, or braking
hard to slow down. The hydrogen sulphide is expelled from the exhaust
pipe all at once. It is the hydrogen sulphide which is responsible
for the odour.

This odour is particularly strong when your vehicle's catalytic
converter is new and dissipates gradually as the vehicle gets older.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact us."

The query was sent on a Saturday and responded to the next day. The rapidity of the response over a weekend plus the obvious effort put in to the explanation makes me wonder if the answer had been prepared in advance or at the very least previously given to others.

I would suggest that others with this complaint attempt to contact Toyota directly. I believe that only with the weight of sufficient numbers will any solution be provided.

corolla03 · January 2003

How can we start a discussion here specifically on this subject alone? I tried and failed.

majorlag · January 2003

I also got a 2003 Corolla S and driving in around SF, Daly City. I too am getting only 250 miles/tank driving in city. Have you fixed the problem yet? I tried calling City Toyota and they said it costs more than $100 just to inspect it if it comes out there are no problem. SF Toyota says it is common since there are a lot of hills. I am not sure if they are telling the truth because my 1999 Honda Accord can get atleast 400miles/tank. What should I do.. I have heard people getting better than 30MPG. I hate poor mileage. One last question. Does toyota warranty covers inspection, which you "think" you have a problem, but maybe it turn out there wasn't?

nippononly · January 2003

LOL!

nippononly · January 2003

covers if it turns out there is some defect that is causing poor mileage, but if they check everything out and there is no problem, you will have to pay for the diagnostic, because fuel mileage is not guaranteed by the warranty.

I would think a lot of really hilly driving like in DC and the City would cause much lower fuel economy, especially if you were doing mostly short drives...don't forget your Accord's gas tank is a lot bigger than the one in the corolla.

boilerman · January 2003

I have had my 2003 Corolla LE back to the dealer several times due to the declining gas mileage in my car. They have done several OBD-II scans on my car and although no codes have been set off and I still have the problem with gas mileage, they did not charge anything at all for the tests. Before I went to a dealer, I did call Toyota Customer Service and had a person in the region get involved with the problem. I then proceeded to go to the dealer and have the tests done. No fix, but no charge at least. You may want to try this.. BAD gas mileage does suck!! Be prepared for the BS you will get about the sulfur smell if you have it. They tend to give EVERYONE a canned speech that must be coming from their corporate headquarters.. Good Luck!

toyotaken · January 2003

A couple of things to keep in mind for those who are experiencing reduced gas milage. Remember that the engine does not run at its most efficient until warm. So, obviously, until it warms up, it will get poorer gas milage. For anyone that lives where temperatures drop during the winter months, this can greatly effect the performace of your vehicle as it takes MUCH longer for the car to warm up.

Secondly, the type of driving you do has a great effect as well. Short trips turning the engine on and off, not letting the engine warm up exacerbate the occurance. Most likely most of you who are experiencing reduced fuel efficiency currently compared to what you had in the summer will see your high efficiency come back when the temperatures rise again.

Hope this helps.

Ken

jrct9454 · January 2003

...for modern engines is to dispense entirely with this habit of "warming up" an engine.

Start the engine - put on your seat belt - lock the doors - put it in gear - leave the driveway - drive relatively gently [nothing higher than 2500 rpm would be a good guideline] for the first mile or so. Carry on from there.

I can't tell you how many cars I see idling in driveways all around our little town when I do my morning jogging. It's just an incredible waste of time, fuel, money, and most importantly, emissions that contribute to air pollution. The oil, coolant, fluids, and bearings all get warmer faster if you just take the darned car out and start driving it. All you need is a few seconds for oil pressure to build up, and then be on your way - just avoid heavy throttle use for the first couple of minutes.

hhomer · January 2003

This is my first manual transmission, and I just want to check to see if what I am experiencing is normal. Whenever it is cold i.e. below 40 degrees, it is very difficult to get the car into the lower gears. For example, at a traffic light I have to really force it in to 1st gear before people start honking at me. But, when the car is warmed up it is perfectly fine. Is this normal? Thanks for your help.

nippononly · January 2003

that is typical with a manual when it is really cold outside, although if the car is completely stopped you should not have to "force" the car into first...if it is a little sticky, that is normal, if you have to use both hands, there may be something wrong!

nippononly · January 2003

managed to dent my Matrix today...how can body shop repairs be so much $$?

fgf001 · January 2003

Assuming there are no mechanical problems with the transmission, changing the transaxle lube to a synthetic lubricant (I put Red Line in my '03 Corolla) will absolutely stop the harsh shifting during cold temps.

hhomer · January 2003

Thanks a lot nippononly and fgf001! I feel a lot better now. I will look into the Red Line transaxle lube.

lovetosavegas · January 2003

Happens in a lot of cars. This is due to couple factors:
1. Engine control unit makes more rich gas mixture when the engine is cold.
2. (not 100% sure) cold air has more oxygen in it.
What does the mechanic say about long cranking? I would be interested in a few opinions.

nippononly · January 2003

does have more oxygen in it - engines run much more efficiently in cold air once they are warmed up than in hot air.

But I am talking about cranking that goes on longer than it should in any modern car...longer than 15 year old cars I have owned...longer than CARBURETED cars I have owned.

Karen_S · January 2003

The discussions in the Owners Clubs can only be created by the host....oooh, the power! ;-) This is done to prevent long discussion lists with few messages. However, you can at any time suggest/ask me to create a new discussion. Just drop me an email.

matrix123 · January 2003

I went to the dealership today to have some work done (moulding around the front pillar came loose and has to be replaced). I had them check for the rotten eggs smell which I have been experiencing for a while now. When I picked up the car, this item was showing on the invoice, but no action was taken. When I asked why, I was told that they have heard about it from Toyota. The mechanic asked me what kind of gas I was using. I am using regular, 87 octane. I was told that I should be using premium, because Toyota recommends 87 octane and up. When I asked why I was not told that I had to use premium gas when I bought the car, he told me that they didn't know and that they just found that out from Toyota. This doesn't make any sense to me. Sounds like Toyota just found something out about their vehicles and is trying to cover it up. The mechanic also told me that every time he gets asked this question, he copies a page in the owners manual which talks about using 87- octane gas or better and gives it to person asking the question.
Does this sound like a bit of misrepresentation from Toyota?

corolla03 · January 2003

corolla03 · January 2003

"Sulphur" is an understatement. What it really smells like is sewer gas. When I took a friend for a ride to show off our new car, and we stopped at a traffic light, he honestly thought we were parked near an open sewer.
Searching for low-sulphur fuel, I emailed BP to ask if this is available in our area (Atlanta). They said that all the premium fuel in BP stations in our area is low-sulphur, but only the premium.
Ugh! Fuel economy is one of the main advantages of a Corolla.
If I test this out, by filling up with premium, can I later switch back to cheap gas? Or will this lead to knocking?

fgf001 · January 2003

Matrix - the dealer is yanking your chain. Think about it, the entire premise of a Corolla is Economy & longevity. The engine is designed for 87 octane NOT premium fuel. I would go straight to the service manager or Toyota with this one. What a load!!

Corolla 03 - If you decide to fill up with premium fuel, a total waste of money, you can return to 87 octane at any time.

I would think Toyota is aware of this and is working on a solution. Meanwhile any person telling me to run premium fuel in an economy car means I go elsewhere because I am dealing with someone that is woefully misinformed or just plain ignorant.

nippononly · January 2003

I will second that enthusiastically!

Many dealership staffpeople, even the mechanics, will say anything just to get you out of there. You should NEVER have to put premium in an economy car.

matrix123 · January 2003

Just spoke with Toyota Canada. The person on the phone seemed to know right away what I was talking about. Her first response was - use premium gas. Then, when I said that the car was designed for 87 oct +, she changed the tune and said that the smell is there because of the content of sulphur in the gasoline and there was nothing wrong with the car. When I said that none of my cars (I drive a Nissan and used to drive a Honda) had this problem, they said that they couldn't speak for Nissan or Honda. They sent me back to the service. I phoned them and got the "get higher octane gas" story. Canada doesn't have regional reps (so I was told by Toyota Canada) and I can only deall either with Toyota or with the dealership. My car still stinks and I don't know what to do next....

rxsorent · January 2003

I agree with you, nippononly, that it shouldn't take that long to start. Like I stated in a previous message, I have been told by the dealer that it is the type of gas being used, normal for the car to do it, etc. My 2003 corolla does the same as yours in that it will quick cranking if it doesn't turn over within a certain time. I feel that sooner or later toyota will have to produce a TSB to show what is causing this problem and how to fix it.

Ile · January 2003

I was wondering about that S. smell also. What i have found out is that it takes as much as 23000 miles for it to go away, but eventually it will.

toyotaken · January 2003

Just a suggestion, but look at forums for Honda, Saab, and many other manufacturers and you'll find the same complaint. The biggest contributing factors are the newer emmissions standards and the higher sulphur content gasoline here in some areas of the US. For those comparing to their older cars, they don't have the same emissions requirements.

Now take this the way that it is meant. I don't like that idea of my car smelling like rotten eggs any more than anyone else, and I hope they (all auto manufacturers) come up with a solution soon.

This seems very similar to the problems that almost all car manufacturers had with brake pads when they first came out with the requirement to be organic in composition. For years almost all vehicles on the road had brake pads that wore out after as little as 5,000 miles. With time and work by the people making these catalytic converters, I hope they come up with a fix soon.

Just a litte food for thought and some perspective.

Ken

heggelke · January 2003

According to the Edmunds site, the EPA range for the Corolla S automatic is around 400 miles for city driving. Why is it that I struggle to get 300 miles in combination (city/hwy) driving? Tire pressure is at recommendations, engine is warm (eventually), I don't let the car "warmup" but I go easy until I see from the gauge that the engine is warm. What gives?

nippononly · January 2003

myself regarding the long cranking start-up with the following thought: given that the engine revs up to 2000 rpm or more when it first fires, long cranking helps to build oil pressure before this rev-storm occurs on a dry engine!

As far as mileage, I can't complain, because I am getting the fuel economy I was led to expect by the EPA sticker.

footie · January 2003

Go ask Toyota why only the Corolla and Matrix are letting this flammable, poisonous gas into their cars.

corolla03 · January 2003

23,000 miles?!?!
Did you say twenty-three THOUSAND miles?!?!

friendly_jacek · January 2003

Corolla 03,

I just saw on thecomplaintstation.com that the smell can persist for the life of the car...
This is to make you feel better ;-)

The good news is that according to my personal experience, the worst smell is when heavy acceleration (up the hill, etc) is immediately followed by deceration (braking).

This supports the theory that SO2 (normally produced from sulfur in fuel) is converted to H2S under reducing conditions during rich mixtures. So, one can try to avoid these conditions.
Also, Toyota should be able to modify ECU to avoid these rich conditions. Alternatively, the converted could be redesigned to avoid accumulation of sulfur.
This is a correctable problem. The issue is, is Toyota willing to spend money to please stinking car owners?
It sounds like they want us to use gas with lower sulfur (like premium) instead.

Karen_S · January 2003

...I've received only one request to create a specific discussion. I found this archived discussion in Maintenance & Repair that might be of interest.

Rotten Egg smell exhaust

friendly_jacek · January 2003

This link is a great resource.

Especially post #8. It confirms my conclusions.
Too bad the discussion is archived. I could never understand why selective discussions are closed on Edmunds.
The above posts document that the issue is very alive.

My additional thoughts on sulphur smell problem.
Usually, the smelly cars have poorer milage than average (mine averages 26-28 in combined city/highway). Perheps the mixture is too rich in these cars. I would consider checking the O2 sensor or other emission components at the minimum.

If the dealership people used their head and diagnostic equipment instead of giving away canned statements written by lawers, there would be a solution to this anoying problem.

This was supposingly a common problem with first cat converters in 60s and 70s.
C'mon, it is a 21st century now.

BTW, I am also pissed with the oil industry refusing to remove sulfur from the fuel. North America has the highest sulphur lewels in the world. Do we always want to be first?

nippononly · January 2003

in reference to that last remark, that I just came out of a week-long rental of a corolla LE that was brand spanking new - no break-in yet, in fact it only had 4 miles on the odo when I picked it up. After driving it about 800 miles this week, and only filling it up twice, I wound up averaging about 36 mpg in it. And it wasn't even broken in.

Take the complaints about the mileage in Edmunds with a grain of salt...the many many corolla owners that are happy with their cars and their gas mileage are out there driving them and are not apt to come in here and wax prosaic about their wonderful mileage, so you will only hear the negative stories.

No sulfur odors either, but I am in California where we use the really low-sulfur gas, and I think that makes the difference.

nippononly · January 2003

gas has sulfur content of between 15 and 30 parts per million...as opposed to the other 49 states, where it hovers around 300...

...so it can be done, and is being done right this very minute...

...and in California we have some of the highest gas prices of the entire nation...I pay $1.85 for 87 octane at the gas station down the street...

...so be careful what you wish for, but your point is well taken...

boilerman · January 2003

I also picked up MY 2003 Corolla ironically with also 4 miles on the odometer. Funny enough, I also averaged 34-36 MPG on it for a while. Low and behold, the sulfur smell developed and my MPG has dropped to almost 26 MPG. True, Nippononly, Many Corolla owners get Great gas mileage and have no problems, but there are some that have problems like myself with the car. The car's exhaust(inside) is covered in black crap,does smell like rotten eggs and does get poor gas mileage.(Just a Fact).I have owned 5 Toyota's in the last 10 years.The sulfur smell is not normal! (I have NEVER had this smell in any Toyota) Maybe why this is called an "open" forum, so ALL of us can tell their experiences(Look in other forums for Toyota "plants")ie: damage control .. Not just sing the praises of a car.. I would love to report a fantastic experience as I have had several friends buy Toyota's based on my recommendations. I just not have not had a good experience from it and will not recommend the 2003 Corolla to any friends.

Karen_S · January 2003

Archiving takes place when there has been no activity within the discussion for 45 days. Also, an archived discussion can always be reopened. I will talk to the M&R host about activating this discussion.

friendly_jacek · January 2003

The gas in US is so cheap that i would not mind paying couple of cents more to have cleaner air. Besides, gas should be more expensive to discourage selling deadly SUVs, to conserve resorces and to minimase cash handouts to the nations in the countries in the Midwest.

Acctually, if we had low sulfur fuel (like Japan), we could have lean-burning engines and engines with direct gasoline injection (1zz-fe engine was originally designed to be direct injected, but the design had to be scrapped).

These are more efficient and the gas savings could offset the increased cost of fuel. These new engine designs cannot work with high sulfur fuel.

Sulfur also poisons cat converters and increases emissions, and is responsible for increased engine (rings) wear in cold conditions (warm-up). Not mentioning the acid rain.

Keeping sulfur in fuel is a loose-loose proposition with only oil industry benefiting from it (cheap manufacturing).

BTW, the below link is to an article which assumes deacreasing sulfur levels in US fuel (table 1).

http://www.bst.com.au/resources/sulphur%20special%20report.pdf

Maybe the Toyota engeneers assumed that by the time 2003 corolla hits the US streets, the sulfur would be lower.

I guess a wrong assumption, based on the frequency of the complains.

BTW, premium gas tends to have lower sulfur.

So this is why Toyota recommends it hoping to buy some time and not having to fix the problem of smell.

friendly_jacek · January 2003

The European paper

http://www.aeat-env.com/Sulphur_Review/Downloads/sr-CLEPA1.doc

confirms that the H2S ("rotten egg" smell) is emitted under rich conditions and high converter temperature.

Again, this might be the link between the smell and poor fuel economy. The smelly cars may have too rich mixture. This should be checked for easily. The most obvious suspects would be O2 sensor, exhaust leak, misfiring, engine temp sensor, etc.

This also explains why Corollas have so many problems with H2S. The converter is placed near exhaust manifold for higher temperature for lower emissions (remember, 1zz-fe is ULEV certified). This is apparantly the condition facilitating H2S production.

Now, the question is why consumers have to do this research instead of Toyota doing its own homework?

friendly_jacek · January 2003

Check my posts in

Corolla & Matrix Owners: Problems & Solutions

Your Corolla maight be running too rich. The soot on the pipe seems to confirm it.

Check the codes and emission results.

http://www.grubinski.com/grubinski/56.pdf

has some good discussion on some of the issues with rich mixtures.

friendly_jacek · January 2003

Also, checked the spark plugs to see if it is fouled by carbon, indicative of rich conditions.
Some other person on Corollaland complained some time ago how come his 2003 corolla's engine was covered with carbon at 44,000. Well, this might be an answer.

boilerman · January 2003

My 2003 Corolla has 3975 miles on it and has had problems with MPG for the last 2500-3000 miles.. Thanks for the info!

terceltom1 · January 2003

I have 2001 LE Corolla with 12000 miles on it. I have only averaged 25 MPG.with almost all city driving. When I bought the car this is the mileage I expected to get. Consumers reports when they reviewed the "01" back then said this is what you should expect to get. But I must agree with you I have heard about so many problems with the "03" that I am glad I got my "01" when I did. I have not had one simple thing to complain about so far. Not even the gas mileage !!!!!!

Karen_S · January 2003

This discussion in M&R has been resurrected:

Rotten Egg smell

abwnd · January 2003

1993 Corolla - Temp gauge at idle is normal. heat coming out is excellent. As soon as I start driving or if I don't warm up the car the temp guage barely registers and very little warm air comes out. I suspect the thermostat.. Where the heck is it. Any good engine diagram websites?

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