Corvettes and all things about them

starrow68 · April 2005

Why not release it at the start of summer? Maybe they have thought this out, it's possible. Orders for the first how many units are already in hand at the large dealers for MSRP sales, that will take how many months of deliveries before any units actually get to a dealer to sit on the lot? There will be a few small volume dealers that will not take an order and get a few units that they will try to maximize return on, +$10k, maybe even +$25k for somebody that wants to bump into line that didn't plan ahead. Always a few with more $'s than good sense. If that does last for 6 to 8 months we are right around to Spring and the market demand will continue to suck up units for those that waited. I'm not so sure the intro date is a mistake.
Randy

gbjerke · April 2005

Randy--
You're analysis may well be on the mark.
However, what good does this do the General? The dealers pay GM "X" dollars for the car. If the dealer marks it up 10k+, the General gets zip in additional profits. The dealer likes the extra profit but that does nothing to GM's bottom line.
On the flip side, "price it for the masses" is my mantra; introduce it in a timely fashion and GM benefits in additional sales/profits.
I am involved in a couple of Vette boards and the consensus seems to be that if the sled comes in at over 65k, it will tank in the sales numbers. One fellow has two on hold but he has the option of bailing out depending on pricing. Over 65k and he is OUT! And that seems the sentiment of the board members. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
No question, the content of the new Z is incredible! Resale history is another matter. There certainly will be those who "gotta have it" right from the get go, no matter the pricing---the American way as such. I'm to cheap to pay the price. As stated, I will have one...just depends on when.
Good e.g., I wanted an '01 after all the car mags were positive about the car. May '01, the best I could do was sticker plus $3,500. End of May it was sticker. Early July is was sticker MINUS $5,000 so I bought. Granted, the '02's were about to hit the ground but a 2 month wait saved me $8,500. Same for my '03---bought that in August of '03. The '04's were already out but that $53,305 sticker was purchased for dealer invoice less rebates.
It all depends on how hungry one is.

ruking1 · April 2005

Looks like the time to get hungry is July to August!

ultraman19 · April 2005

Randy,Gbjerke and Ruking,
Agree with the excellent points made-as awesome as this car seems to be it is imperative that GM not make a strategic error in long term marketability. With all the internal issues facing the general, they have very little, if any, margin for error.
Everyone knows year two and three can be brutal depreciation wise, and availability could be easy. Given a choice most folks picked the vert over the C5-Z06, what makes us think the appeal of 500hp would make any difference this time around? In the fifteen years I've owned Corvettes, the vast majority of people I've met wanted the convertible, it was always way cooler and sexy than any powerblock. Me! I always chased the hp, in fact, I'm shopping for my first vert presently.
One of my former undergraduate students is a regional manager for a major electrical supplier, has GM as a client and even sells to the BG plant. He is an active racer and has owned almost thirty vettes to present. In February, he told me the new Z06 would come out of the shute about $62- 65K, but within 10 to 12 weeks it would be cheaper than a moderately loaded convertible.With the "junk bond" status pending, they have no margin for error and must maximize units sold.
He is also the guy who said two years ago the next vette would have expose headlights. We laughted two weeks over that one.

Soft sales for the new Z06? Too much $$ when the base models are so powerful?

xkss · April 2005

It was the C6-R's first victory in the GT1 class of the American Le Mans Series.

Also, the Panoz Esperante (handbuilt sports cars in Georgia) beat all of the Porsche 911s in the GT2 class.

Here is a picture from Friday's test session.

starrow68 · April 2005

The Panoz incident sure left people shaking their heads. The Panoz leads the whole way, I think, then after a caution it gets punted by a Porsche who then gets black flagged for a stop and go and let's the Panoz get back in front. The owner of Panoz is also the guy who has the controlling interest in the ALMS series, I think. Depending on your view was it politics that the Panoz won, or politics that Panoz didn't lose?
Great win for the C6-R's since they were faster on the track at Sebring but spent more time in the pits than the AM's. ALMS races may not hold a lot of drama but the LeMans race should get lots of attention, seems they love the Vette over in France, especially if it beats things from Italy and GB. Gotta love sport.
Randy

xkss · April 2005

The incident of that Porsche and Panoz seemed intentional (on the act of the Porsche). Don Panoz doesn't bend the rules in ALMS for his sports car.

The 12 Hours of Sebring was awesome to watch on tv. The Panoz Esperante will run in the 24 Hours of Le Mans.

starrow68 · April 2005

The same driver got punted in an earlier race but no black flag. Your view is I'm sure valid and supported by many Corvette folks I have heard, I just wonder if some Porsche rooters have a different view? Like I said, should make things interesting at Mid-Ohio. Finally found a reliable local spot for Speed, which I don't get, so I should be able to see some of the races there rather than listen to ALMS radio and watch the timing board.
Randy

xkss · April 2005

I hope these aren't too big.

starrow68 · April 2005

Thanks for posting, great to see someone happy to see an arrival. Now, what is the rest of the story? I thought it was a Z51 coupe until I noticed the badging and the brake duct behind the door. Wow! Where was this and any idea of what it is destined for?

xkss · April 2005

It was in Detroit.

here is the website where I found it.

Aluminum Z06

Also, the odd-looking thing in the second picture is the exhaust valve. It opens all the way after 3,500 rpms or when full-throttle is applied. I've heard it makes for a pretty cool exhaust note. Perhaps it makes grown men curse and children scream.

xkss · April 2005

Leighton Reese races a new C6 in the Speed World Challenge.

check out his website here

Leighton Reese

Lou Gigliotti

Lou Gigliotti and his Corvette

Tony Gaples

Tony Gaples and his new Corvette

starrow68 · May 2005

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=9505

Should be fun to follow this week!

starrow68 · May 2005

http://motoring.independent.co.uk/road_tests/story.jsp?story=633842

Not that it didn't leave me wondering what he really thought ...

xkss · May 2005

He is a real car enthusiast.

New C6

xkss · May 2005

Here is the brake duct of a new Z06. This Z06 was on a trailer.

Headed to the 'Ring?

lee21 · May 2005

I want some honest opinions. I bought a new C5 in 2004, September.... I have put alot of miles and almost out of warrenty. Should I purchase an extended warrenty for $1,700 +/-??? How many miles (80 mph reg. and running thru traffic pretty good). I take good care of and maintain well, use the best oil I can get, etc. Just wondering about what I can expect from the longevity of this car. I would like to keep this car for ever... but, should I sell after 50,000 or what.

Should I put an aftermarket air intake system on it ? Any suggestions for making the car last longer?

Thanks,
Lee :confuse:

espa · May 2005

I just came back from a local dealership here in upstate NY to negotiate for the only C6 they have on the lot. The best I could get was $500 off MSRP. They stated that these cars usually sell at MSRP or above in upstate NY. I think they may only get one C6 allocated to them and this one has been sitting on the lot for a while. None of the other dealers in the area have any in stick. Is $500 off MSRP a reasonable deal or can I do better shopping around? I wonder if the deal would be better in the fall as we approach snow season here. All advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

vcheng · May 2005

Two, Kerbeck's in Atlantic City, NJ, and Maxie Price in Atlanta, GA, specialize in Corvettes, and sell a lot of cars to out of state buyers with about 2-3k in discounts currently on coupes in stock. I am sure you can do much better than 500 off.

espa · May 2005

Thanks for the advice.

motorhead1 · May 2005

I need some help with a question about the mufflers on my 1991 Corvette. This car has only 20k miles and has been kept inside most of it`s life. I`ve noticed that when the car is running there seems to be only exhaust comming out of the two outside tips and not the inside tips, is this normal? By the way, my son and I are going to the Corvette plant for a tour this month. Maybe I will get to see the new Z06 being built,Thanks.

jasmith52 · May 2005

Anybody familiar with replacing an 85 rack and pinion ??

I am thinking about doing it myself but am not sure about a couple of things.

Specifically, What is the proceedure for disconnecting the steering shaft from the rack ??

Does anybody have a link to a step-by-step proceedure ??

starrow68 · May 2005

http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/people/columns/intelligencer/11902/

p3leo · May 2005

I just bought a 1977 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray with 15000 original miles. Everything works very well except for the radio. I can turn the radio on, and I see the little yellow light light up, but I don't hear anything. It's the original DELCO GM AM/FM Transistor radio with an 8 track player, but without the cb radio. Any thoughts? Thanks.

xkss · May 2005

check here

Corvette Racing

m1miata · May 2005

Was thinking of buying a Corvette of the C4 or C5 era. Which one in the long run may prove less costly. I know an '87 is priced pretty low these days, but I was thinking that the '97 may be more trouble free, and less expensive to repair. Or do I have this backwards?
Anyone own both a C4 and C5 and would like to share their experience in maintaining both cars.
Thanks, Loren

starrow68 · May 2005

The cars are night and day if you take the time to test drive them. The C4 was good for it's day but that was a long time ago and with high side rails, trouble getting in and out for some is a major issue. The engines are ok but the '96 with the Lt5 is the cream of the crop, the 90 or so switch to the LT1 was a step up to 300 hp but not even close to the efficiency of the LS1. The C5 is pricey compartively but you get a lot more, much better ride and just better all around package. After a year of using the C4 to keep mileage off the C5 it just wasn't worth it so I sold the C4 since I wanted to drive the C5 more. Test drives will tell you a lot.
Randy

m1miata · May 2005

Good point Randy, about the entry and exit on the C4. I did a test drive of one and it was second only to an MG Midget for get out of once seated for effort required. Would you say it is easy enough getting in and out of the C5 to use it as an everyday driver? Looks like the low miles on these cars indicate they are not used but on the weekends. Right now I am using a Miata for my sport driving, which is fun. They are awfully small though. I know people that are too tall for the Miata, so I use the other car when picking them up for a ride. Always liked the looks of the Corvette since I was a kid. Favorite became the C3 over the years, though I liked them all, like the split windows and the earliest models. Right now I have to leave the cars outside, so I don't know if that would hurt the Corvette. I imagine, if in a club, I could be drummed out for child abuse for letting a Vette get wet and too much sun.
Randy, thanks for you input, Loren

gbjerke · May 2005

I did not own a C4 but am on my second C5 ('01 and '03 Z06's) and I am very impressed with the build of my cars.
Seems the older generation Vettes were well known for multiple squeaks/rattles/cowl shake etc. When the C5 hit, all the car mags commented on the structural integrity of the C5 and that it was 'light years" ahead of the C4. I agree. Suspect between the Z's I have logged over 40k in miles and neither had a single squeak or rattle.
Panel fitment will not be of Lexus specs and all Vettes seem to have excessive orange peel.
However, for long term enjoyment, I suspect the C5 would win hands down.

starrow68 · May 2005

Having driven an MGB for a dozen years, about 20 lbs. lighter than I am today, the C5 is even easier to get in and out of than most low sedans. At 6'3" and mid 190's I find it to be a great daily driver and really hate when my logic overcomes my passion and I drive the Volvo to the train station to keep a few miles off the odometer. The C4 took 10k miles in a year and I still did 30k in the C5 the first 3 years. My prior commute car did 6k per year and had only 102k after 15 years when donated. I was trying to keep it at 6/60 but I'm now up to 9k in the last 7 months, so I'm failing happily. Lots to miles to the track and then 100+ a day on the track will add up quick. Where did all those extra miles come from ...

.

I've found the way to maintain value in a Vette is to keep it garaged or at least covered and yes the purists do get stressed about leaving them out. But mine is a daily driver, winter too, even had to return from a weekend track trip at Reno-Fernley Raceway through a blizzard down from Truckee one Sunday afternoon. Took weeks to get the grit out of many spots and I still come across a bit at times.

The C4 I bought was a '95, 8 years old with 18k miles and sold it a year later with 28k miles and it was garaged or parked in a highrise garage during the day. It had the glass roof so I didn't do much day time driving in it, I personally don't care for sun. Interior and mouldings were in new shape and that is what made it a great car to look at. When the wife got out of grad school and wanted another C5 that took the space in the garage and I couldn't see leaving the C4 out to lose value.

bhill2 · May 2005

To respond directly to your question "Would you say it is easy enough getting in and out of the C5 to use it as an everyday driver?", I am 56 yo, 6 foot 2, 210 lbs, and never was particularly athletic (OK, I was and am a klutz), and a C5 is my daily driver. I have no problem whatsoever. Part of it may be that I know that once I get in I'll get to drive it. In any case, entry and exit should not be a worry, and it is a truly great car to drive.

m1miata · May 2005

Thanks for all your replies. Looks like the best Corvette to get would be a C5. It will be on the upper part or the list of cars I am considering. Due to not having a garage at this time, I may have to delay purchase of a Vette for a few years. Will have to weight in the possible damage of sun, dirt and rain parked in the driveway, to having such a great car now instead of latter. I guess another option is to buy something like a Pontiac / Camaro, or Mustang for now, then get a Vette later on.
Loren

kyad · May 2005

Hi, I'm considering an 03 ZO6 with 10K miles on it. The dealer is asking 36,900. Is this a good deal.? Also what is the tire life on these cars driven normally, no frequent burnouts. I heard that they only last 10 to 12k and are very expensive to replace. Thanks very much.

starrow68 · May 2005

I have a C5 coupe, but I run Z06 wheels and tires sizes when I take the car to the track. The GY supercars are good for grip and performance and have a wear rating of 220. Compare that to the Michelin's I have on my stock wheels which are all season run flats and have a wear rating of 400. The GY's are not going to last as long driven the same way as the M's, simple info available on Tire Rack web site. I would guess, and it is a guess that you should get mid 20k miles on the GY's, and they are around $1,500 a set. I went through a set in about 4 months and 6 days on track, the tire store guys know me by first name and do give me a pretty good discount. I now run Kumho's on the Z06 wheels, several hundred cheaper and about the same performance as the GY's, there are alternatives.

But, if you want a Z06, why worry about tire wear, it's a performance car. Just from talking to other's with Corvettes the Z06 is a fantastic track car, a great weekend driver and works as a daily driver. Several I know put the Z06 in the garage and drive they C5 coupe or vert when the want to go on a trip, it is not set up for touring ride. Even the Z51, performance suspension, in the C5 is a better ride than the Z06, until you get them on track. FWIW

ruking1 · May 2005

I have a 2001 Z06, I don't track it. I use it a lot for long and longer distance touring. While indeed it is a bit more performance oriented ie probably not as smooth for more comfortable touring, the Z06 seems to just eat up American roads. The longest I have gone at a sitting was 963 miles in 10 hrs of driving time. I had actually wanted to keep going, but I had arrived at my destination

As Starrow 68 has said, the tires are more expensive, low of 700 to a more normal high of 1500. . Tire wear can range from a few track sessions to 60k . After the GY E F1 SC's I got a set of Toyo Proxes T1's. They are great for the trips that it "never" rains in the desert" times to Las Vegas and Las Vegas, NV to the Grand Canyon, AZ.

I have driven the GY E F1 SC's many times in the rain and also in the snow. I would not recommend driving in snow if you can help it

I am pushing 70,000 miles! I have almost loved EVERY one of those miles.

c5_4fun · May 2005

I have a 2001 and its been eating batteries? I generally drive it on nice weekends, and from one weekend to the next my battery will be dead. Seems as though if I leave it unlocked, the battery survives so I'm thinking it may be tied to the alarm....but wanted to see if anyone else knows of such an issue on these cars before I give it to the local mechanic at $100/hr to try to "duplicate problem".

starrow68 · May 2005

My OEM battery on a 2002 went dead at two years and I was trying to not use it as a daily driver, it was trying. I've read about battery issues with cars not driven regularly but no real data and I've had no issue since I started to drive the car daily. That doesn't prove a thing, I know. On the Corvette boards most swear by the Optima Yellow top or even the Red top if you want less chance of a leak into the electronics below the battery and better life. Most say the red is overkill.
Good Luck,
Randy

ruking1 · May 2005

less than half of that for oem supplied equipment

I think there is something to be said of the constant drain on Corvette batteries. Mine just gave up one day with almost NO warning at app the 4.25 year mark.
While I do not use a trickle charger, it makes logical sense that automatic recharge when needed, tends to let the battery last longer, but there is not a lot of anecdotal data, let alone side by side ( more) scientific testing.

On other cars, I am used to batteries going app 10 years before dying. So would a trickle charger use let this battery last longer? up to 2.35 x longer or 23.5 years?

Good ones can cost from 45 dollars on up.

So basically, I just replaced it with a 40 dollar, 3 year full replacement, 100 month prorate, Johnson Controls made battery. (Johnson Controls makes Optima batteries, among many others) So according to the warranty paperwork, if this new battery dies again (at the 4.25 year mark), I basically have to pony up a prorated 20 dollars for a new one. By that time this 2001 car will be 10 plus years old.

c5_4fun · May 2005

Randy and ruking, thanks for the response. I guess its time to try a different brand of battery.

I have now gone through 4 mid-level "die hard" batteries over the past year none of which would take a charge when I returned them for replacements.
I bought an "on-board" trickle charger that I used for a while, but I had two batteries go dead with that plugged in. I switched to disconnecting the battery after the weekend which works, but is an aggravation.
With the original factory battery, I could leave the car sit 3 weeks and start it right up without a problem. Now it only takes a week and the battery is dead.

dustyone · June 2005

On my wife's 50th AE convertible, battery died at 23 months, 8500 miles. Dealer replaced it with a 6 year, professional Delco at no charge. They give the story that batteries are wear items and not covered under warranty. The assistant service manger told the shop to replace the battery anyway at no charge. Stated on the service ticket that the battery had a bad cell, even though the Tech told the service writer that nothing was wrong with it. It will be an Optima soon for my '04 Z06 Z16. It has 9000 miles and 18 month on it. Will replace it before it dies

starrow68 · June 2005

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050613/dem041.html?.v=5

Pretty amazing, say $70k with what you need to run on the track without any of the extra weight that might just slow you down. Of course that's in Blue, extra cost option!
Randy

gbjerke · June 2005

Randy--
Agreed, a TON of content and I just hate drooling all over my keyboard with my absolute lust for this sled...and I will have one...just depends on how greedy (read instant gratification) I need here. Jump in early and pay list, or hang in there for the discounts/rebates.
Of interest here is the fact that a number of dealers are selling at sticker..NOW!
When the first Z hit in '01 it was sticker+. This one is a gonzo upgrade and to see the C6 version at sticker is a bit surprising. Suspect discounts will be early. GM is pricing real close to 911 territory and that is some serious competition from a resale standpoint as Vettes historically drop like a rock.
I'd love to be driving one this fall...then again, next spring may not be all bad if I can save 5k+.

starrow68 · June 2005

I don't think the price is really the issue. I, at this point, don't know that I could handle this rocket. I put oversized rubber on my coupe and I have very little oversteer issue and although I pass most everything at HPDE's it is still something that a modest driver can control. This C6 Z06 is a race car for the street and I'm thinking many with money will take it out and wreck it very soon. Like the Carrera GT that lost it at Pomona a week ago I think this may just be too much for many who have the money but not the skill. Call me a kill joy but I'd want to be very careful in one of these and I'm not sure I'm all that disciplined. Think I'll watch for a bit and I'm guessing that there will be some garage queens that sit around mostly for a year and may be on the market, of course there will be lots of buyers.
Randy

jmess · June 2005

I'm with starrow68, there are going to be some bent Z06s. The C5 and C6 are plenty fast and need to driven with respect/fear and good judgment. Add in more power with the C6 Z06 and you need to add in even more respect and judgment. The stability control system should help keep some folks on the road at rational speeds; as long as you don't find something that can't move out of the way.

gbjerke · June 2005

Well, I'm not a street racer but do enjoy HPDE's. However. I am old enough to be fairly conservative. Would love 505 ponies for the straights and the idea of having 6 piston fronts and 4 piston rears sure will help in the slowing down bit.
Old boys and toys----can't beat it.

starrow68 · June 2005

Guess I'm going to have to get just a bit older. The $65.8k base cost with needed options will get very close to $70k before tax and licence. When you compare that to a C6, Z51, and similar options you can get it for under $50k, say $48k currently and that $20k+ premium is a lot for lower lap times. The prior Z06 was about $7k for 55 ponies or 15%, vs. 105 ponies or 25%+. I don't even consider the street view as a factor, if I've got it I'm going to use it and don't much care what the outside view is. Interesting analysis, but my basic view is that some who can afford it will not take classes and hopefully do no more than put it in a wall learning on the job. Don't get me wrong, the price is a fantastic deal compared to similar performance rides, the base C6 is just a little better "deal" currently.
Randy

Claires · June 2005

Video: 2006 Corvette Z06
When the 2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 hits this fall, General Motors says it will be the quickest and fastest production car it has ever produced.

Follow-Up Test: 2005 Corvette Convertible
2005 Corvette Convertible: Still blazing after all these years.

starrow68 · June 2005

The muted praise for the C6 on the other hand is underwhelming. Of all the vert reviews that is the first I remember with complaints about the flex in the body. Since I don't have experience with 'better' shifters I guess I don't know what I'm missing. As cool as the no syncro shifting is in the formula mazda, upshifting doens't require a clutch after a day of practice, but I still think I'll take the Vette.

VIR looks like a kick of a track, hope to some day get a try there.

Randy

lastc4 · June 2005

Starrow68 - Your 95 C4 comment caught my eye. Just bought a 96 C4 LT1. When you put it in reverse there is a huge (Loud) clunk coming from what appears to be the Driver side wheel.

Kinda like in the early C4 years when you were missing a caliper clip. I pulled the wheel and inspected the clip and caliper. Rotor seems fine. No one, No one can seems to find the cause.

New to GA so I don't have a good wrench. Have you seen or heard of this issue. Bought the car from American Sports Car here locally and they are stumped.
All/Any Help welcome - LASTC4 :confuse:

starrow68 · June 2005

I don't know any cars that well, especially the C4 which I drove for a year and sold with nothing more than oil changes. However, try the Magazine Vette, I think the site is vetteweb, but not sure. They seem to answer lots of questions on older Vettes and have experts since those cars are now going the way of the hot rod in some cases. Good Luck,
Randy

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