Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

socalawd · September 2005

What is so amazing about it, is it get's that bad with all that hi tech on it.

Its a 4400 lb beast, so starts and stops will be bad on it. Also the VCM is almost useless around town. Here are instances when VCM dosen't work, less than 15mph, on warm up, accelleration, going uphill, and over 80mph. So as its sitting at a stop light or in traffic on the 405 it's just like any other engine. Now since this is a comparation of DCX vs Odyssey CR also states overall MPG Dodge SXT-17mpg Honda Odyssey-19mpg. That with the almost 20% quicker 0-60 times is pretty hitech. Heck at this point spending 11% less on gas than a SXT owner is pretty good!

marine2 · September 2005

Now since this is a comparation of DCX vs Odyssey CR also states overall MPG Dodge SXT-17mpg Honda Odyssey-19mpg. That with the almost 20% quicker 0-60 times is pretty hitech. Heck at this point spending 11% less on gas than a SXT owner is pretty good!

I think CR was going by EPA figures then. It will be interesting what they come out with now.

marine2 · September 2005

I will give Honda this much. According to CR, Honda had the lowest amount of problems for newly designed vehicles from 2000-2002, than any other auto company. That will probably raise some with their 2005 Ody. But that's a great track record.

Most of the high priced European models were the worst.

jipster · September 2005

You are right..that was a small amount of logic.

The CR study focused on actual mpg in city driving "versus" EPA's estimated mpg in city driving. So, finding those numbers for the DGC and Ody would be more relevant to the current CR discussion.

jipster · September 2005

Yo hans, haven't heard much lately about which van you're considering purchasing. Appears as if you have crossed the Ody off your list. Which would leave the Mazda MPV and the Dodge Grand Caravan as the best remaining candidates.

hansienna · September 2005

Right now I have found NO new minivan as desireable as my 2002 T&C LX which has some nice features that are found on NO other minivan at a reasonable price. My 2002 with 3.3L has an overall fuel economy average of 22.6 MPG with a high of 34.6 MPG and a low of only 14.1 MPG. (Dismal but NOT as low as the 12 MPG the Ody delivered for CR).
Odyssey EX: Very comfortable seats for all passengers and driver but NO overhead console with complete, versatile trip computer and outside temp and compass. No heating coils at base of windshield and controls on doors are not lighted. Disappointed with engine and transmission response of 2005 Ody I test drove.
Sienna LE: Must upgrade to an XLE to get separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger and Denver Region does not import base XLE. MSRP to get what we want is over $32,000. The 2004 Sienna LE was THE BEST performing minivan and Sienna is probably the most reliable.
Grand Caravan SXT: Most 2005 models are sold and no information but Edmund's pricing yet on 2006. 2005 GC SXT does NOT have the heating coils at base of windshield, controls on door are no longer lighted, and trip computer no longer has "Current" fuel economy that is on my low end 2002 T&C.
MPV: Was too small for our needs and NO reliable data on next MPV...but if rumors about 2007 MPV are true, it could be a viable possibility.
Sedona: Could jump to # 1 on my "most probable next new vehicle" if the data on the 2006 Sedona proves to be accurate.
I would not consider any minivan but 2006 Odyssey, 2006 Sienna, 2006 GC/T&C, next generation MPV or 2006 Sedona.

dennisctc · September 2005

Its a 4400 lb beast, so starts and stops will be bad on it. Also the VCM is almost useless around town. Here are instances when VCM dosen't work, less than 15mph, on warm up, accelleration, going uphill, and over 80mph. So as its sitting at a stop light or in traffic on the 405 it's just like any other engine. Now since this is a comparation of DCX vs Odyssey CR also states overall MPG Dodge SXT-17mpg Honda Odyssey-19mpg. That with the almost 20% quicker 0-60 times is pretty hitech. Heck at this point spending 11% less on gas than a SXT owner is pretty good!

Back from a weekend camping trip to Canada, 4 adults (no complaints about 2nd row seat comfort for 4-5 hour drive), 2 dogs, loaded DCX Minivan and Coleman Popup RV...18 mpg overall, doing 75mph highway, and thru many small towns etc....not bad! Lowest was 17mpg, highest was 22mpg. Not bad considering only 7200 miles on her so far.

CR is good only for very data they collect i.e testing similar vehicles at same time with same instruments, in a very scientific method. Their write ups are very slanted, always favoring Japanese vehicles even if totally new i.e..the Oddy.

We've been seeing for months now, the dismal MPG the Oddys are getting. Maybe on the CR test loop it gets better mileage than a Dodge, but real world experience isn't close.

I wonder how the HEMIs with cylinder deactivation fare? I haven't read latest CR yet.

So are we now playing the percentage game ??? Like having 1/4 of the recalls of an Oddy is pretty good? or how about spending 20-30% less on a Dodge minivan is fantastic!!!!

swb9 · September 2005

....and would appreciate input. I'm brand new to this forum, which I'm excited to have discovered. As I said above, we're looking to buy our 1st minivan, but have very little knowledge of minivans or brands, aside from what I've read concerning Oddys, Siennas and T&C in places like CR. :confuse: I had been looking for a used 2002 Odyssey w/low miles, but I'm getting a little nervous after having read of the problems that forum members have been having with the transmissions and other parts of the 2002s.

Is there a consensus in the Odyssey v. Town & Country debate? I know even less about the T&C than I do the Oddy....does the T&C suffer from the problems that many American vans have? Will it only be reliable for 100,000 miles and then die an untimely death? Also, is there a model that's smaller/shorter than the others?Also, whether I ultimately buy an Odyssey or a T&C, are there any years/models I should stay away from?

Sorry for the 20 questions. I would really appreciate any and all comments/thoughts/suggestions/advice. Thanks in advance for your help!

marine2 · September 2005

The Odyssey had transmission problems for that year as Chrysler did a few years before. But Honda does give you a 1000,000 mile warranty with it. I wouldn't buy a Chrysler before 2002 as they had a number of other problems. From 2002-2005, the Chrysler/Dodges seem to be pretty problem free. The Dodge does offer a shorter model to go with their G.C. and it comes with a smaller engine.

I would say as long as your going for no older than a 2002, either van would be a good one.

hansienna · September 2005

Agree with marine2 with a few additions.
# 1. There was a Chrysler Voyager clone of regular, short wheel base Caravan from January 1, 2002 until the name was changed to Chrysler T&C. The T&C with no letters after it is a short wheel base clone of Dodge Caravan. In 2002, each had a 7 year 100,000 powertrain warranty that would be transferable to next owner IF the original owner had purchased an additional DaimlerChrysler warranty for other items. That made the original 7 yeard 100,000 powertrain warranty transferable for the same length of time as the additional warranty.
# 2. A used 2002 Odyssey will cost you about twice as much as a used Grand Caravan or Town & Country in same condition due to the perceived better reliability of Honda which may or may not be the case. An equally nice 2002 Sienna would cost slightly less than the 2002 Odyssey but each costs much more than Grand Caravan or T&C.
# 3. Have you considered either a NEW 2005 Caravan or T&C with the HUGE discounts now in effect as long as dealers have NEW 2005 models? :confuse: They would cost not much more than a used 2002 Odyssey or 2002 Sienna and you would have a NEW vehicle with a long factory warranty.

# 4. Also to look at are NEW Kia Sedonas or Mazda MPVs that also have large discounts and are very reasonably priced

or even a used 2002 MPV or Sedona?

dennisctc · September 2005

1) Check out the different areas of this forum...it's invaluable

2) If you want smaller minivan, there's the SWB Chrysler vans, and also Mazda MPV. I was very impressed by Mazda but needed LWB for extra space. In my opinion, for the difference, I'd go with a larger minivan.

3) If you go to the Chrysler minivan problems on this forum, you'll see many owners wtih many many miles on their DCX products. Any modern vehicle can last 250k+ miles, it's just maintaining it and taking care of little things as they come up.

4) One other thing to consider...how you going to use this? Hauling kids around and Home Depot runs? or empty nesters? I think the Honda and Toyota are "too prissy" i.e..nice, to stand up to some abuse.

hansienna · September 2005

One other item:
The smaller minivans ( MPV, Caravan, SWB T&C ) would fit more easily into the smaller garage of older homes or even new homes when space is at a premium. The smaller minivans can still carry 7 people with seat buckles for all and have adequate cargo space for many people unless 6 or 7 people are going camping or must take a large quantity of luggage.

jipster · September 2005

Yeah, I would go short wheel base MPV or Dodge Caravan instead of a used Honda Ody. Why pay 18k-20k for a used 2002 Ody with 60,000 miles, when you can get a brand spanking new MPV or Caravan loaded fairly sweetly for the same amount? Plus, you'll be getting piece of mind with 4 years/50,000mile warranty of the MPV or the ,,,what 3yr/36,000 bumper to bumper and 7yr/70,000 powertrain warranty on the Dodge. Of course if I had to choose between the two I would pick the MPV....which I did.

Zoom Zoom

masterpaul1 · September 2005

Me and my Wife back in September 2003 were in the market for a used minivan. Safety, reliability, cost and features were all considered. After doing careful research here on Edmunds and using other resources, we ended up buying a new/used two year old 2001 DGC EX for $15,995.00 with only 37K. (This was well below the budget we set). We were able to get the rear cargo organizer, an alarm, Maximumcare bumper to bumper warranty to May 2007 or 75K, (the original warranty expired from miles) and paint protection with all taxes and title included for just over $19,000. At the time of purchase, according to KBB, our van was worth over $18,000 to which the original price new was around $26,000 -27,000. So we were blessed to find our vechicle of choice with color, features, reliability, warranty and cost. We paid cash, so no car note. Man what a good feeling to own a new/used car with no car note. Out of five cars I've owned, I only had one car note which was my Wife's car that she had before we got married. (To which we own together now). We now have over 64K and the only problem that we've had, was right after purchase when both front window regulator motors needed to be replaced. Replaced the battery in mid 2004 along with the gas cap. We had some front suspension work done from a knocking noise. (Covered under warranty). Outside of these few things, everything works just as it's suppose to and our van has been very reliable. Although now we are going to have to replace both lifters on the liftgate sometime in the future, since they are getting weak from time and use. It will only cost us under $50 and time of course. Good luck with your research and future purchase.

socalawd · September 2005

We've been seeing for months now, the dismal MPG the Oddys are getting. Maybe on the CR test loop it gets better mileage than a Dodge, but real world experience isn't close.

I have the numbers from CR they are free online until Nov. 2nd. 2005 Honda Odyssey Highway EPA28 CR 28 City EPA 20 CR12 Overall 19 EPA 23. Overall a 17.4% shortfall for the Odyssey.
Now Dodge GC SXT City EPA-18 CR-11(Even less than the Ody) Highway EPA 24 CR-25(Not bad) Overall EPA 21 CR-17. 19% shortfall.
Stil better overall mileage! Even the 12 MPG city looks good compared to DCX.

I wonder how the HEMIs with cylinder deactivation fare? I haven't read latest CR yet.

This along with 4 other models were tops at underpreforming in percent from EPA for that type of vehicle! 300C 41% less than EPA.

So are we now playing the percentage game ??? Like having 1/4 of the recalls of an Oddy is pretty good? or how about spending 20-30% less on a Dodge minivan is fantastic!!!!

The best thing to do is go out and try and find the best van that suits you. Cost features etc. The price of the Ody is high(now 20-30% is a little out there for the same features) but I think It's worth it. I am happy with the added safety features I have standard. I can only say no problems here and I expect the Odyssey to be at least average in reliability. The 2006 should even be better!!

socalawd · September 2005

I had been looking for a used 2002 Odyssey w/low miles, but I'm getting a little nervous after having read of the problems that forum members have been having with the transmissions and other parts of the 2002s.

The main problem was a lack of lubrication to 2nd gear. All of these trannys should have been inspected and modified(if no damage was found) or replaced. Honda also has a 100,000 mile warrenty on it. As with anything that mechanicial these vans do have some problems. You can get quite a bit for your money from a 2002/2003 Dodge or Chrysler(which I prefer because it holds better value) the Honda is in high demand so resale value is a little high. The SWB/MPV route is fine it you have 2 or less kids. The storage behind the 3rd row seat is tight to say the least.

Is there a consensus in the Odyssey v. Town & Country debate? I know even less about the T&C than I do the Oddy....does the T&C suffer from the problems that many American vans have? Will it only be reliable for 100,000 miles and then die an untimely death? Also, is there a model that's smaller/shorter than the others?Also, whether I ultimately buy an Odyssey or a T&C, are there any years/models I should stay away from?

You can make cars last a long time no matter what the brand. The main thing is to stay on top of the maintenance. I had a 2001 DCX van it was ok but first year of model so I had my share of unscheduled dealer visits. Never got stranded, so not too bad. 2002+ should be fine. CR rates them average, cars are so dependable now average is great compared to 20 years ago. 1999 Odyssey also had quite a few more problems than the years after that! Hope you find a good car!! GOOD LUCK!!!

aaron_t · September 2005

I question CR's test methodology. I have yet to read or hear of people getting as poor city fuel economy as they did for a several of their vehicles. Lower than EPA, yes, but 40% lower? Not one account. How is their information useful except to get people upset?

badgerfan · September 2005

I question both EPA and CR methodologies, especially so when it comes to city driving mileage. It can vary so much from driver to driver and city to city that it is almost impossible to develop a one size fits all test. If you live and drive in a very congested large city you could spend an inordinate amount of time sitting and idling. On the other hand, if you drive in a less congested city or drive primarily in less congested suburb areas of the larger cities, or in a less congested "midsize" city, your city mileage could easily beat the CR or the EPA city ratings.

Add to that the ability of the manufacturers, with the sophisiticated software now used to control engines and transmissions, to design their engine/drive train control software to beat the EPA test, it is nearly impossible to determine in advance what kind of mileage an individual driver will get, relative to anyone's published data.

hansienna · September 2005

Excellent analysis.
Many years ago before the freeway became crowded one co-worker was bragging about city mileage but when questioned, her city driving was 15 miles interstate with only one stop light going home from work or to work. She lived a few blocks from the freeway and work was just one block off the freeway with one "right on red" stoplight intersection enroute to work. We worked the 2:30 PM to 11:00 PM shift when traffic was normally very light each way.
On the other hand, I had a total of 5 miles each way with 7 stop lights with less than 2 miles on the freeway. Our "city driving" was so different that no reasonable comparison on gas mileage was possible based on driving to and from work. My vehicle had just warmed up to ideal operating temperature.

The ONLY reasonable comparison of mileage between vehicles is to drive them each on a round trip on exactly same long route at the same time...and that is virtually impossible. The EPA "Highway" rating is the closest to fair comparison that can be made and then as badgerfan pointed out, manufacturers can cheat on that test. :confuse:

jipster · September 2005

What is EPA's or CR methodology in conducting city mpg??? CR sure didn't indicate how their test was set up. One would think they would have...wouldn't one :confuse: i.e 3 five second stops per mile...accelerating at such a such a speed to such and such a mileage.

sebring95 · September 2005

CR is not good at disclosing the details of anything. At least JD power gives you problems/100 or whatever they're using to measure. Better than a black dot, red dot.

I think the Ody being over-rated on the EPA is realistic because of the VCM which would be far more active at the speeds the EPA uses. Same goes for hybrids, they're most efficient at the speeds EPA tests so they're going to get really high marks on paper. Now if everyone actually drove the way the EPA tests, everything would be pretty good.

For the most part, I've always gotten very close to EPA on many of my vehicles. The Ody is the first to stay closer to the city rating on a mix, but I'm not anywhere near CR results. My overall average stays between 20-22mpg in general use. That's about what I was hoping to get so i'm not disappointed. The V8 Tahoe I replaced averaged right around 16mpg for the same trips and I've not given up anything in terms of size or performance.

The Ody did drink the fuel more quickly when it was new, averaging 18-19mpg for the first couple thousand miles. It also felt a bit lethargic at first, so I would have to guess the engines are pretty tight coming out the factory door. Now coming up on 6k miles, it's come around in both performance and economy. Oil change is due, might go up a bit after that too. I suppose if CR has a very grueling city test and a very green engine, they could get that. I'll bet I could get 0mpg if I wanted to with any vehicle.

aaron_t · September 2005

Along those lines CR did say the vehicles tested were conditioned with 2000 miles. Based on the 7 2000-2005MY vehicles I've driven regularly, I'd say 10k is truly broken in getting the best fuel economy and performance. One had no difference over 30k miles. The rest gained 2-3mpg from new to 5-10k miles.

swb9 · September 2005

My wife and I bought an immaculate '02 Odyssey EX with 19,000 miles on it for $18,200 yesterday. Using the information found on here about the transmission issues and warranty issues concerning Canadian v. US models, I was able to ask intelligent questions and get answers which assuaged my fears. Thank you again for all of your help!

fish8 · September 2005

Are those Canadien or US dollars? What options? I couldn't imagine paying $18,000 for an almost 4 year old Minivan.

jipster · September 2005

Well, it does only have 19,000 miles on it. Thats about 30,000 miles less than normal. How much is the low mileage and the fact it is probably in close to mint condition worth? 2 or 3k?

hansienna · September 2005

Just checked Edmund's Used Car pricing and the Retail for a 2002 Odyssey EX in Outstanding Condition with 19,000 miles is $20,517 and $22,631 for a Certified Used 2002 Odyssey EX with only 19,000 miles.

fish8 · September 2005

Well, it does have "only" 19K miles, but the car is still almost 4 years old. As we all know, when a car ages issues can start to rise. As long as SWB9 is happy with their purchase that is all that matters. But a 4 year old car is still a 4 year old car. After 4 years the tires most likely will need to be replaced soon. How about the hoses?

I could be way off base here, but I wouldn't of made the purchase.

To each their own though!!!

fish8 · September 2005

I actually did check Edmunds used car pricing and was surprised at what I found..... :confuse:
$22,631 for a Certified used Odyssey? I know it's a "Honda" but I bought a loaded (minus Nav) 2005 T&C Touring model back in May for a little over $23,500.

hansienna · September 2005

Is this a typographical error and you meant $33,500?

or was it a USED 2005 Touring that had been a rental or fleet vehicle with 50,000 miles or more on it? :shades:

fish8 · September 2005

I am not sure where you are getting the $3,500 figure. In my post I said $23,500. We bought out NEW T&C Touring for, I think to be exact, $23,750. MSRP was about $33,500 +/-.

dennisctc · September 2005

That's very possible, I had almost same deal on my Dodge GC SXT.

Some people just love Hondas soo much. ....to each their own.

hansienna · September 2005

Typographical Error on my part. CONGRATULATIONS on your exceptionally good deal for a New 2005 Odyssey Touring for almost $10,000 less than MSRP.

When I first checked 2005 Odyssey prices, the Touring was listed at $35,020 MSRP according to the entry made in my 2005 Odyssey brochure.

I would now be driving a new 2005 Odyssey EX (cloth) if I had been able to purchase one for a similarly good deal within the past 2 months...say $20,000?

socalawd · September 2005

am not sure where you are getting the $3,500 figure. In my post I said $23,500. We bought out NEW T&C Touring for, I think to be exact, $23,750. MSRP was about $33,500 +/-.

I looked at TMV and for a 33,300.00 touring MSRP. The TMV was 28,300.00. A nice 5000 off but not 10000. You got a steal are you counting 0% financing as 5000 dollars of this??

socalawd · September 2005

That's very possible, I had almost same deal on my Dodge GC SXT.

Some people just love Hondas soo much. ....to each their own.

He made the choice be felt was good for him. I enjoy seeing just how high resale values are for Honda's.

fish8 · September 2005

I guess I need to clarify....

I purchased a CHRYSLER TOWN & COUNTRY TOURING MODEL, not a Odyssey. It sounds as though many of you think I bought a Odyssey. My deal was almost $10,000 off MSRP. I can say though, if I could of gotten the same deal with the same features on a 2005 Odyssey it would be in my garage.

dennisctc · September 2005

I can say though, if I could of gotten the same deal with the same features on a 2005 Odyssey it would be in my garage.

Given all we know now about Oddy recalls and problems, I'm so glad I didn't buy one last December!! I looked and test drove them at about 5 different dealers, all had the same take it or leave it attitude.

fish8 · September 2005

I agree about the take it or leave it attitude, but I would deal with the recalls. I think a majority (same with the T&C) of Odyssey's are pretty reliable minivans. Though I am happy so far with our T&C. Though I will have the dealer look into my "disappearing" power steering fluid.

Overall, good van though.

aaron_t · September 2005

I looked at TMV and for a 33,300.00 touring MSRP. The TMV was 28,300.00. A nice 5000 off but not 10000. You got a steal are you counting 0% financing as 5000 dollars of this??

Incentives were much better from Dec 2004 through May 2005. DCX also raised MSRP about $1000 on DGC SXT & T&C Touring over the course of a year. The employee pricing plus promotion is significantly worse for some, only moderately worse for others. It was up to $3500 rebate w/ TMV price near invoice. Some dealers had extra cash (I got $2k in May) to give. Lease loyalty was another $1k. My sales price on my 2005 T&C Touring was right at $20k w/ $28.5k MSRP, and I didn't even get lease loyalty. Also, DCX employees had two control numbers to give to anyone last year as well as this year to receive the employee price before this employee price to all program. In fact, it is still valuable to those interested some of the vehicles excluded in the Employee price plus program like the 300/Magnum/Charger.

So, $10k off MSRP on a DCX LWB minivan was reasonable in some cases. Now, not so much. Wish I had gotten a Special Edition or Signature Series, though.

hrao · September 2005

Chrysler will be coming out with all new resigned 2007 Chrysler Town & Country available as early as 2006 fall for a preview.
some one told me that Chrysler 300C technology(Mercedes) and trendy design (something like Jeep Commander-retro boxy looking ) will be the feature of the 2007, even dads will get fired up driving a minivan.
any scoop ?

hansienna · September 2005

They are now when they drive an Odyssey.

dennisctc · September 2005

For once I agree with the Oddy side!!! Yes!! dads are fired up, especially having to take their Hondas in for recalls, door issues, AC issues, cracked windows, etc..... who wouldn't be?? :P

hayneldan · September 2005

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/d/88792/d_ams_fotoshow_detail?ski
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/d/88792/d_ams_fotoshow_detail?skip=1

hansienna · September 2005

WOW. What else can one say? I hope it has the 5.7L V8 Hemi and Mercedes 5 AT. :P

marine2 · September 2005

I don't think so. They look more like the Chrysler Pacifica. I read once that a Chrysler executive said unlike G.M. that tries to make their minivans look more like SUV's, Chrysler will stick to the traditional minivan look. Those two don't look anything like a minivan. More like a station wagon.

hansienna · September 2005

I can not be too quick to condemn Honda for Odyssey recalls as the 2002 Chrysler T&C LX has had 4 recalls (for trivial items like upper power steering hose, another for lower power steering hose, and latest for speaker wiring in rear may short out from condensation from rear A/C). :confuse:

hansienna · September 2005

I think it looks more like a blend of the Pacifica/Magnum/current T&C.
For some unknown reason, I quite like it and I do NOT like the looks of either the Pacifica or Magnum.

and I also do NOT like the looks of the 2005/2006 Odyssey.
The 1999-2004 Odyssey is ALMOST as attractive as the 2002 - 2004 Town and Country. :shades:

hayneldan · September 2005

Pacifica's do not have suicide doors. Notice the sliding door tracks under the 3rd window. These are not Pacifica's

marine2 · September 2005

They are also not American. You can look at a Honda in Australia and it will look different than the American version. I think all that is, is a modified Pacifica built for the European market.

marine2 · September 2005

European Honda minivan

http://car-reviews.automobile.com/Honda/picture/why-doesnt-honda-bring-its-mini-minivan-to- -north-america/380/1

dennisctc · September 2005

head restraints

From the Detroit News....FYI

Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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