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Corvettes and all things about them

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Comments

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    What you are probably noticing is improved throttle response and induction noise. This tempts the foot to be heavier and gives the sensation of greater speed. Probably you actually aren't going any faster, or if so, very very fractionally. Be sure to keep those K&Ns maintained carefully if you continue to use them.
  • starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    Another from the old school and when I got the '02 everyone
    on the net was saying change at 500 miles to get out metal
    particles. The '02 did not come with standard magnetic drain
    plug, you had to add as aftermarket. The wife's '04 did
    have the magnetic drain plug and it did have shavings at the
    first change, not much since but with her's I did the first
    change at about 3k miles. I still have the extra mag drain
    plug I bought to install in that car.
    With my car, since it does track duty I change at 3k miles
    or after 3 track days, which ever is first. Actually the OLM
    doesn't come down that fast even with moderate track duty.
    I get the engine oil temps up into 270's about 3 to 5 times
    a day at the track while on a road trip it never sees over
    about low 200's.
    I'm betting that with standard use anything under 15k miles
    is probably still overkill but what the heck on a 50k car!
    Randy
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    On a 2001 Z06, I actually experienced the same thing (sotp) with any of the below actions:

    1. 2002 air filter cover (much greater openings cost $45.)

    2. drilling holes in the stock 2001 air filter cover (to make much greater openings; cost ZERO)

    3. removing the air filter cover all together and plastic tie the stock oem filter in place (cost ZERO).

    You can do a search on the Z06 site. It is also complete with dyno tests!

    The key point here is Corvette specifies their off the shelf vehicle with an unseen test passage of snow prophylactics. In the worse case, the car after being confronted with a 3 foot wall of snow will prevent possible hydro lock of the engine by advertent or inadvertent ingestion of snow. Bottom line is that is the real majority reason for the constriction. So if one does not need, want, or is willing to self insure, just the air filter cover removal is good enough for more freer breathing.

    I would not use a oil media filter for it increases the likelihood of the intake portion being coated with mineral oil, as it simultaneously allows more silicon (grit) into the intake system than a stock oem filter. This of course adds to wear.

    With 60-70,000 miles I have actually used a soapy water white cloth to clean the insides of the intake (clean side) and the white cloth showed literally no dirt. There was no oily residue, but predictably that was due to NOT using mineral oiled media. Also if you use oil media products, use increases the chances of coating the very expensive intake sensors, which increases the chances of failure due to corrosion of those sensitive sensors.

    Far less important (on the consumer side, but probably the real core reason on the vendor side) is how much you pay for "mineral oil". 1 gal retail is app $21. How much does one pay relatively when one buys the 8 oz bottle or spray? (per gallon?)
  • motorhead1motorhead1 Member Posts: 110
    Can someone tell me how the top option works? I see that when ordering a car the top section says removable top $0 dollars, glass top $750.00 and both tops $1400.00. Doesn`t the removable hard top come with the car anyway or is it a different top from the other two tops?
  • gbjerkegbjerke Member Posts: 158
    The car comes standard with the painted top.
    The $750 option gets you the transparent top IN PLACE OF the painted. The $1,400 gets you both tops.
  • motorhead1motorhead1 Member Posts: 110
    I see now, The hard top is more expensive.
  • gbjerkegbjerke Member Posts: 158
    No, the painted top is standard....no extra charge.
    For $750 you get the transparent top IN PLACE OF the painted top.
    $1,400 gets you BOTH tops.
    Mine came with painted only, which is what I wanted...like the look of painted only. There have been some complaints of excess heat with the transparent top, obviously from areas of the country that can get pretty "toasty" although you can purchase an interior cover (after market) to cut down on this. I sure didn't want both tops....just something else to store in the garage.
    I wouldn't mind the "view" with a transparent top but I just much prefer the solid color look rather than the 2-tone look of the transparent one.
    It's a matter of personal taste.
  • atb84atb84 Member Posts: 5
    I'm not sure if this is the best board for this but I feel compelled to alert any and all fellow corvette owners of a problem I've just found out about. However, I must attend to selfish motives too: so if any of you have any knowledge/experience to this problem I'd love to hear from you and how you resolved it.

    I have a 2002 triple black convertible C5. I've owned it since new and it has 25k miles on it. I've had very few problems with the most expensive on being about $600 to fix a headlight that wouldn't go down. After calling corporate and telling them the car just went off warranty last week, they helped me out a lot. Now, just one month after paying the car off, the dealer tells me I have a electric brake control and brake pressure modulation valve that needs to be replaced. Cost: $4000. I literally thought he was joking when he called me. After five minutes of laughter I finally realized he was serious. He said "hey, you got a vette" as if I should have expected this. BS! Last I looked GM/Chevy may not have been at the top of JD Powers or Consumer Reports, but I'll be damned if they were at the bottom.

    Is anyone familiar with this problem and its resolution, options, alternatives, etc.. Oh, I find this out a week after I listed the car for sell. Fixed or not, I will NEVER buy another vette and would advise anyone that does to lease it and send it back b/f the warranty expires. Oh, and find a more sympathetic dealer/service department. I've called corporate again, but haven't heard back as of yet.
  • starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    Well we only live so long, you will only have a few more
    experiences that will make you swear off a few more makes
    and models but fact is, today things are expensive. I have
    a 2002 with almost 70k miles at 6 years old. I got the ABS
    system replaced around 4.5 years and close to 50k+ miles. At
    that time they said the unit was $2,700 + labor. It was
    covered under the 6/60 warranty I had from when new. Also
    watch out for the rear brake light module, that was also
    replaced. Fact is you either pay for new and depreciate or
    you pay to repair and only you can tell which is less painful.
    Randy

    BTW, the brake system is what makes the 4 wheel ABS capable
    of the small interventions that make Stability Control
    possible. It helps if it works right.
  • motorhead1motorhead1 Member Posts: 110
    I just wanted to let people that are planning to buy a new or used Vette that the painted top is very easy to remove. I got both tops with mine because I was worried that the painted top would be heavy but it is very light and easy to take off and put on. The painted top makes the car much easier to cool, so unless you want the glass top save your money.
  • starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    I agree that the clear top is not worth the extra, but my
    wife has one and it is used mostly in the winter, hence not
    much heat issues and at night for driving on trips when
    having the Moon up is really great. It can be fun if you
    learn to live with it at the times it adds some value, not
    what they charge but some.
    Randy
  • stuntmanstevestuntmansteve Member Posts: 1
    I am going to order a base model 2008 corvette and I am trying to determine if I should get the performance exhaust system and the 2.73 axle ratio. Any advice would be appreciated.
  • will42will42 Member Posts: 21
    I ordered a base model with the performance axle. I have read in magazine articles it does make a noticeable increase in mid-range power. Also, the 2008 has a quicker shifting automatic. I passed on the exhaust because of cost to horsepower ratio. It adds 6 horsepower. I haven't driven one with the performance exhaust, but read it sounds real nice when you step on it. Hmmm, maybe I should have gone for it.
  • gbjerkegbjerke Member Posts: 158
    I opted for the dual mode exhaust in my '08 and happy I did so.
    I had an after market exhaust on my '03 Z06 which barked pretty good but at crusiing speed there was a "drone" which was a bit annoying.
    The stock exhaust on the coupes was just OK...too mild for me but an after market cat back exhaust is about $1,500+ and you may again end up with the "drone" at cruising so the $1,200 cost for the dual mode made it a no brainer for me. Certainly not worth the $$$ for only 6 horses but I wanted it for a more aggressive sound. The drawback here is that the valves open at about 3,500 rpm and unless you are tracking the car, one would not get to hear the open valve sound very often.
    Now, all one has to do to keep the valves open at all times is to pull the fuse for the dual mode (it's a stand alone fuse). Sweet music but the dreaded drone at cruising could wear on you.
    SOLUTION--and this is awesome. There is a vendor who sells a "MILD TO WILD" unit which is ultra slick. $100 gets you the unit. It plugs into the dual mode fuse (a 2 minute install) and comes with a FOB so with a push of a button you can either leave them in the stock position or open the valves at anytime. It's a small FOB so I did the velcro bit and put it right next to the start button so I can open/close the valves at any time. The best of both worlds to me.
  • will42will42 Member Posts: 21
    I wish I could of talk to you first. That sounds like a excellent set up. My car will be in Monday or Tuesday, so it's too late.
  • motorhead1motorhead1 Member Posts: 110
    I read in my Corvette magazine today that the six speed auto starts the car off in 2nd. gear from a normal start, not in 1st. Has anyone else ever heard this before.
  • gbjerkegbjerke Member Posts: 158
    That's true, but you can over ride this feature.
    Here's the deal...If you put the gear selector in "D", it shifts just like a regualar auto does...i.e., starts in 1st gear, up thru 6th.
    Put the selector in "S" WITHOUT TOUCHING THE PADDLES and it operates like the regular auto with firmer shifts.
    Activate the paddles and it will start out in 2nd but a flip of the paddles and you can put it in 1st.
    More confusing than it needs to be but it becomes second nature after you have driven it a bit. A peek at the HUD shows what gear you are in. Easy to get used to.
  • newbe3newbe3 Member Posts: 12
    On a 2007 c6 coupe i am shopping for a cat back system .. some like the bassani have muffler under center of car and others like corsa have mufflers in rear like stock. which is better or quiter in cab of car, their also pushing a b & b system there are so many companies like corsa,magnaflow,borla,bassani b&b etc. which is the best and the best for less noise in the cab help ???
  • will42will42 Member Posts: 21
    Which vender did you get the "milder to wilder" exhaust override switch from. I funny thing happen to my 08. When it came in, the targa roof didn't fit right. On further inspection from the dealer (removing the rubber seal) that goes around the back where the targa roof hooks in, was a crack and damage. The engineers looked at the pictures the dealer sent and decided the car would be sent to a body shop, fixed, and sold as new. Well, I'm not buying it. So, I'm ordering another one from a different dealer, and getting the performance exhaust. Another bit of info. My car had a build date of September 24th, the day of the strike. The dealer checked with salaried management not on strike and confirmed my car was somewhere on the line that day. I sure hope the assemblers are happy with their new contract and build my second 08 a little better.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    have any of you actually seen a newer corvette being driven fast on the highway? they're always slogging along in the right lane. fellow bald guys, live a little, step on the gas now and then.
  • bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    140mph on I40.

    I'm old, fat, blind, but still have my hair.

    My wife and I have both been lately stopped for 7 or 8 over the limit, both were warned only, so we're not going to be pushing it much in the future.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I'm not sure if you were stopped and warned for going 7/8 mph over on I40, but it struck me more of an effort to create a "speed" check (show of force-whatever one wishes to call the demonstration) for those "X" number of cars who saw and passed by the two stopped cars.

    On one of our local speed "traps" they have taken to using 5/6 patrol cars. One car is the lead radar "gunner". If you happen to see him and slow down (pretty hard and DUMB not to), one tends to speed up down the road- some distance later: which would be a mistake, as down the road the other patrol cars sit...waiting to either stop the car/s the lead gunner radio's or gun you separately as you... speed up.

    One of those officers was either bored or had a hunch, (being in a "Corvette") came out of a dusty hiding spot and got behind as I was going 60 mph in a 65 mph zone. He almost rear ended me as he caught sight of some soccer mom in a Honda (or something) whizzing by. (presumably WAY over the speed limit) He popped on the lights and almost caused a further accident down the road, pulling this Honda over in a major transition turn off exit!! :) :confuse:
  • vettevervettever Member Posts: 20
    I have a Borla cat back with 2 giant tips on my C-5 ZO6. All I can say is it sounds great both in and out of the car. The 2 tips, when you add an exhaust plate look real good.
    The mufflers are in the back but it's still pretty loud in the car but you are driving a Corvette, enjoy the growl!
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    Speeding really should be left on the racetrack. Most of the time when I see Corvettes, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Porsches, they're being driven responsibly, yes, by more mature people. ;)

    It's the kids driving wrecklessly who don't deserve to drive faster cars.

    I'll get off my soapbox now.

    That being said, I do drive in the fast lane sometimes. :D

    tom
  • gbjerkegbjerke Member Posts: 158
    Bummer about the targa but to me, you now can get the best of both worlds.
    Seems we can put a web site here but if this post gets removed, private me at gbjerke@aol.com
    The Mild2Wild I have can be seen/purchased at www.nakidparts.com
    Awesome service also. I was leaving for a golf trip up north on a Friday and it was now Wednesday. I wanted overnight delivery but there was no provision on the on line order form so emailed them. Within minutes, the response was they would do the overnight. Sure enough, Thursday a.m. came the Fed Ex truck. 2 minutes later it was installed.
    It comes with 2 FOBs. One of my FOBs worked, but the other didn't. Another email and again, with 15 minutes I had a response. Likely a weak battery and he asked I check the brightness of the red light on the "bad" FOB. Did so and it was weak so just picked up another battery---problem solved. They even advised that they would send me another battery. Not necessary I told them but it gives you a hint af their service.
    I did the velcro bit on the one FOB and stuck it right next to the start button. Never thought I'd ever need/want a second FOB but they come in handy when someone wants to hear the difference. Car sits idling and while back there a push of the button opens or closes the baffles. COOL!
    As I probably mentioned earlier, the stock exhaust is pretty tame soundwise so a unit like this is perfect. Library quiet when you want and a great BARK when you feel like it.
  • will42will42 Member Posts: 21
    Thanks for the info. I am ordering another 08 tomorrow with the performance exhaust.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    i'm not asking "why don't vette drivers drive recklessly", but merely "why don't they seem to speed at all on the highway" - for example, 75 or 79 in a 65 or 55 zone seems reasonable/common/safe, which is the speed of a large percentage of traffic around here.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Not causing or being in an at fault accident can reflect in a shade over $300 full coverage (years) insurance, which is better than say 600 per year!

    Not getting caught?! :) PRICELESS!
  • 5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    Motor Trend just did a piece on the C7 Vette, and what it should be, mid or front engine. Here is my 2 cents worth that would maximize volume and reduce costs.

    Front or mid engine?

    Vette : front engine, and refine, refine, refine.

    New upscale exotic: Mid engine at a slightly higher price point - say $10-15k. A Ferrari kicker. Use as many Vette componments as possible. Needs a new name. Maybe share the name with a super sport sedan, see below. Something exotic, like Zastra.

    Then move the Cadillac to this platform with a similar hike in price and go luxury sport. Now, you have a range of models.

    Could even do a super sport sedan off of it. Same components. I like that thought. Isn't Porsche doing it? Emulate the very best in the world. M5 maybe? AMG?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Isn't Zastra an erectile dysfunction medication?
  • 5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    "Isn't Zastra an erectile dysfunction medication?"

    Dunno, I don't have that problem. How did you happen to think of it? Seriously, it just popped into my mind as I was typing and I couldn't think of anything better. Suggestions?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    I don't know. As soon as I read the word, that's what I thought of :P

    Why not just call it "Corvette?"
  • hal56hal56 Member Posts: 94
    or just 'Vette
  • 5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    Front engined would be a Vette. Something new, exciting, exotic etc. with a mid engine is not the same car, would sell better and be distinguished as an upscale product. Besides, it's not the same car.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Do you really believe Chevy could produce an exotic, mid-engine, hand-built Ferrari fighter with high quality materials and sell it for less than a Ferrari?

    What parts could they carry over from the Corvette to build this new exotic? Maybe the lug nuts...
  • 5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    "What parts could they carry over from the Corvette to build this new exotic?"

    You would probably surprised what could be used. Brakes, engine, radio instruments and much much more. That just scratches the surface.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Brakes? OK, sure.

    Engine? Let's see - Ferrari 112hp/liter; Porsche 133hp/liter. Corvette 72hp/liter. :sick:
  • 5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    "Engine? Let's see - Ferrari 112hp/liter; Porsche 133hp/liter. Corvette 72hp/liter. :sick: "

    Didn't catch the word 'could', I take it. They 'could' make it anything they wanted to, including the engine with twin turbos. Are we in a pissing contest here?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    No, just a healthy discussion.

    I've been intrigued by the Corvette for a long time and I very much like the C6. I think it is the first true American alternative to some of the best sports cars in the world, and I'm looking forward to watching it "grow up" as the C7 and beyond come along. But the Corvette is a uniquely American sports car - possessing a driveline and suspension that, while terrific for what it is (the archetypical American sports car), is a relatively crude sledge hammer by European standards.

    I just think GM is a "bang-for-the-buck" company with little financial (and management) leeway to build a car without compromise - which is what would be needed in order to play with Ferrari or Porsche on a level playing field. To build a true exotic, GM would have to start with a completely clean slate - a daunting and expensive proposition that would be a huge financial gamble that I don't believe GM management and stockholders would tolerate.
  • 5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    OK. Fair enough. Now we're having a conversation. I understand your position. I don't mean a car equivalent to a Ferrari. That wouldn't make sense. But I think the monkey is coming off GM's back, and maybe, based on risks like the DTS and CTS, they may see that gambles will pay off if done right. Cadillac has come a long way, as has Saturn. The new Malibu looks like it is light years ahead of that fleet car box it replaces.

    You know, there are many, many stories where the underdog had the fever and dedication to defy the odds and win. The old American spirit we seem to have lost. Drag racers like Sox and Martin. They showed the factory that they could win and got factory support and sponsorship. Then there was a guy named Carol Shelby with the Cobra and Mustangs. Ford supported him. The cars are now classics. And it seems that there was a group within Ford that came up with a lowly GT40, and probably on a budget too. Didn't they go to Europe and beat Ferrari? Maybe I'm not too out of line mentioning that name. Then there was a guy named Duntov that worked wonders with the Vette. Surely you have heard of him.

    What I'm saying is that it can be done. Someone needs to have the dream and the passion - and support. Surely GM has the technology. The expertise is out there with guys like Shelby. Hell, hire Schumacher to evaluate the machine. He surely knows what a Ferrari is. The American automotive industry needs a shot in the arm and it will take something special to allow them to hold their head high again. I would like to see them go for it. Using components in production cars would ease the financial pain. Really, how much more does it cost to manufacture parts that are properly designed? With todays technology, machining and manufacturing to tight tolerances should be a snap. Out with the old and in with the new. And that goes for people too. If you can't adapt to today's world, hit the road.

    Now, I have driven Japanese cars and bikes for over 20 years because I couldn't accept the junk being shoved out over here. Patriotism only goes so far. I work hard for my money and I will spend it on the product that is right for ME. When they wouldn't step up to the plate while poo pooing the Japanese, I left. Lately though, I like what I see from GM. A year ago, I took the leap and bought GM stock at $25. My gut told me to do it. Lately, it was around $47. I still can't get myself to buy the product though, but they're bringing me in closer and closer. The new CTS looks like a winner. Now if they could just do something about resale values................
  • bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    Have either of you guys driven a C6 Corvette? More than 'just around the block'?

    It is far from a 'crude sledge hammer'.

    What is the comparison with Ferrari? Or Porsche? This is a $50,000 comparison with what, $90,000 and $135,000?

    Why would GM want to inflate their price and cut out probably 40% of their current buyers? Just my wild guess, but if you read on other forums, there are a lot of 'payment' buyers of Corvette. Buyers that would not be able to make the $100,000 plus market of the car you seem to want the Corvette to turn into.

    I think GM knows exactly where the market for their car is, and what they need to do to place the car there. And, they have the Z06 for the really go-fast market. Like the base motor, with a top speed of 186mph isn't quite enough?

    The current car has much more power than the average buyer needs, and probably can 'handle'. Turn the wheel slightly, jump on the gas, and the car will go sideways before the traction control can kick in. I have driven mine for 11 hours, and I am no longer very young, and I felt better than any other car we have ever owned. While cruising, which the car can do at 100mph+ if you don't value your license, it is very quiet (runflat tires road noise is the main thing you will hear), tracks great, looks stunning. If you open it up, the exhaust howls, all that I would ever want to hear.

    The car is what it is. If this isn't what you want, find the car that is. And, probably dig much deeper into your pocket to get it.
  • 5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    Fed: "I very much like the C6"

    I thought I had mentioned that too, but guess not. No, I have not driven the C6, but I understand it was a big leap forward. Bout time. I drove a Boxster, and was very impressed with the refinement and that wonderful mid-engined feel. A friend that owned a 99 Vette suggested that I not buy one because of lack of refinement. That may explain the sledge hammer comment. Comparrison tests I have read came away with the same conclusion. Lots of power no doubt. I hope the C6 minimizes that. The problem is similar to high end audio. Once you get used to the refinement - and it may not be obvious at first, the lack of same just jumps out at you when you go back to something less. Things can be very impressive IF you have not experienced better, generally speaking. It may or may not apply to the C6. I wouldn't know. Too much bulk for me. I do know a Boxster has been on my short list, and while not being a Ford guy, the 05 Mustang is the first of that breed that I could own, based on what I see. But, I have not driven one of them either. That could change my mind.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    I didn't say it was a "crude sledge hammer." I said it was a "relatively crude sledgehammer by European standards."

    I have driven the C6, and as I have said before, I think it is a terrific sports car. I just don't think it possesses the chassis or driveline refinement/composure that a Porsche has. I think for starters, the next generation Corvette would benefit from a fully independent suspension and a smaller, more efficient (but just as powerful) V8 with multiple cams and variable valve timing.

    The Corvette is what it is - an American icon that is not intended to steal sales away from Porsche or Ferrari. And I think the Corvette is exactly what it should be - don't make it mid-engined, don't build it out of carbon fiber, and don't jack the price up to $90,000+.

    No, the original point of my musings was simply to state that I don't believe a smattering Corvette parts could be assembled to create an exotic American sports car that competes head-to-head with the imports.

    That's basically what I think. :)
  • starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    I'm thinking you are right on! What some call refinement is
    nothing more than spening more money, in many cases for far
    less performance. I see comments about how great the Boxster
    is and have read the articles in the mags about how it is
    great on track. I then see that they were using an autocross
    (slow speed) track. Take it to a road course, 2+
    miles with some room to get into triple digit speeds and even
    a stock C5 will be passing it with equal driver. After I had
    spent about a year on track I've never been passed by a
    Boxster, even with R compound tires and after market suspension
    set-up. The Cayman is another story, very capable but again,
    spend more and you usually get more. The 911 is great if you
    can master it but again the base car is sometimes 50% more
    than a base Vette, so why compare?

    As for why compare performance on track, when I started going
    to track events almost 5 years ago they were not that popular
    unless people had a dedicated track car. Yesterday I went to
    a track day at Thunderhill Raceway in Nor. Calif. and we had
    over 100 Corvettes on track. Amazing! Lots of first timers
    but also they filled the advanced and upper intermediate
    groups a couple weeks before the event. That worked out as
    an indicator of how many owners have taken the time to get
    on track with instruction in the past. I've even seen some
    all marque events that don't sell out so getting that many
    Vettes on track for a day was fun. There is another all
    Corvette weekend at Spring Mt. motorsports park in Pahrump, NV
    in two weeks. Sponsored by the Corvette Museum.

    If all you want is a touring car there are lots of choices,
    some are more sporty than others, enjoy what you choose and
    I will be having fun driving my C5 to Pahrump and then
    having a capable track car as well.
    Randy
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "What some call refinement is
    nothing more than spening more money, in many cases for far
    less performance."

    If by "less performance" you mean possessing linear and communicative steering, sublime suspension compliance, and a shifter that snicks into gear like hot butter on teflon, then I guess I agree with you. ;)
  • 5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    Bottom line is, we all work hard for our money and should spend it on the compromise of our choice. That's what the whole world is - compromises. Obviously it should be an informed choice, and these forums are an excellent way to learn what that is. Of course, it's no substitute for seat time. I have owned 2 Vettes. Enjoyed both of them and belonged to a Corvette club. Times have changed and so has the Vette. Neverless, the top 2 choices on my 'fun' list are the BMW 335 Twin Turbo and a Boxster. I will rarely see triple digits, as most of us won't. We did test the Boxster at over 95 on curves and it was like it was on a rail. Triple digits should be a piece of cake. No, it won't match a Vette on brute power. Handling? The Vette should handle with all that meat on the wheels. But from what I read, the Boxster holds it's own and more in the twisties, and with lots less power too. Yes, the Vette weighs more, but that's offset by huge tires and brute power. It's a super powerful V8 against a six ctlinder with what, half the power? It should be no contest. especially at high speed. Anyone see Leno wipe out in a Porsche at 175 mph?
  • 5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    "What some call refinement is
    nothing more than spening more money, in many cases for far
    less performance."

    I fail to see why it has to be either-or. Having worked in design and development, drag raced bikes and cars, and own a 55 Chev with a 425 HP 396, I have seen both. I just don't see why something can't be designed to be refined and perform also. It's just a mindset, and it shouldn't cost much more to do it right in todays world of computer control, precise machining and robots, but the design must be right in the first place. Foreign manufactures seem to have figured it out. Any reason why we shouldn't measure up? I do think we have come a l o n g way though.
  • starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    "If by "less performance" you mean possessing linear and communicative steering, sublime suspension compliance, and a shifter that snicks into gear like hot butter on teflon, then I guess I agree with you."

    If all that refinement means that on the 12 turns at Sears
    Point I gain .1 sec per turn for 1.2sec's and loose .5 sec
    on each of the three long straights to a stock Vette that
    came off the showroom floor in 2001 for $45k, I guess I
    agree that the Vette will be leading at the end of the lap.

    The wife's 2004, end of the run for the C5 came off at
    $39k. That's a good reason to wait for the end of the C6,
    IMO. Now what were they getting for the Boxster in 2001?

    To those that want a street touring car, ok the Boxster is
    probably fun on a canyon road, just like my old MG was fun.
    More refined, sure, but never going to do much more. And
    considering all the bicycles on canyon roads in CA, I'd be
    very careful on that drive. I've done over 100 track days
    in the last 4+ years on a stock engine coupe that now has
    just over 72k miles and all it gets is oil changes and lots
    of tires and new brake pads/fluid. Weight does have a cost.
    As for the sophistication of OHC vs. push rods, do I really
    care when I put down the right foot? And on road trips,
    really going touring, the 24cu ft of storage is truly
    amazing.
    Randy
  • 5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    Refinement - We apparently have different ideas on what it is. You seem to be talking ultimate performance. I am not.

    Canyon roads or less are where most of us will probably be driving. You seem to assume all of us live in CA. I ride and drive roads like them though, and seldom see a car. Deer - a BIG problem, an Amish buggy once in awhile, a flock of wild turkeys maybe. I'll occasionally run up to 130 with my VTX 1800, but can't get the same sensation with a car, so why bother? Same at the drag strip. A bike is more fun. Twisties? That's another story, but I think a smaller Boxster will give me a sweeter experience. But then, It's my buck, isn't it? I'll buy anything if the price is right. Could even be a Vette. I certainly have nothing against them. Just overkill for what I'll use it for at this point in time. And, I have always felt that if I was brand loyal, no matter what, I was cheating myself of different experiences. When I try new things I learn.

    Boxsters start in the lower $40k range. They are NOT equivalent cars. It's apples and oranges. Take your pick, you're paying for it. Yes, they're both sports cars, but that's about it.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Randy, I've been lapping since 2003 and I have never timed a single lap - I could care less.

    Obviously, you enjoy fast laps and gobs of torque - the Corvette is the perfect street/track weapon for you. I happen to enjoy a different kind of car - a lightweight, 4 cylinder that can barely hang with a V6 Honda Accord in a straight line, but on a road course, would give your Corvette fits. It's playful and easy to drive in all conditions, forgiving in nature, super responsive and communicative, and simply a blast to drive.

    The point is, both the rapier and the broadsword are very capable and can be a lot of fun. Both have a loyal following and both are worthy competitors. You favor one and I favor the other - and neither of us is right or wrong.

    The difference between us is that, while I respect and admire the "broadsword" for what it is and acknowledge it's strengths, you dismiss the rapier as weak, inferior, and overpriced. Why don't you just admit that the two are equal, yet different in their approach? Apples and oranges as '55396' accurately pointed out.
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