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Comments
least out here, Boxster's are pricier than base Vette's. I
did look at the Boxster and the one I liked some was near $60k
vs. the $45k I got for all the options I wanted. All I'm
discussing is road courses, not autocrosses, and in that
environment as a leading edge baby boomer the Vette has
so far been superior to the Boxster with me behind the wheel.
That is a pretty big handicap since I've been to racing
schools where I'm 5, 8 and sometimes 10 seconds off the
younger kids driving equal cars. And I'm even giving up
more street tires vs. the occasional DOT-R shod Boxster.
Now I do realize that not everyone wants to drive on race
tracks, but for me it provides some measure. There's a guy
with a newer Cayman S that has more experience than I do in
other cars and has run just better than my Vette at some
tracks, just off at others, but I'll admit from other views
of the car it is better all around than the stock C5. There
are lots of 911's out on track and that means most pass me
but there are others that have much more performance available
but are slower. All that proves is that it is mostly the
driver and then how much you wish to spend on top of that.
As to apples and oranges, why so? Same price range unless
you want some of the pricier options on the Porsche. Just
because a stock Vette will compete with 911's doesn't make
that a better comparison, IMO.
I'd really be interested in why?
I didn't start timing until I had more than a year on track
but at some point I wanted to have a measure of improvement.
Actually, I came along as slow as anyone else I know. I ran
in entry level groups with instructors for a full two years,
hey it was free. Then I ran in lower intermediate for another
year + until I got kicked out at an event where there were
fewer folks in the next group up and they wanted to equalize
the track load. It never bothered me waiting for a signal
to pass, it was all about hitting the line. As I've noted
to several folks, if you aren't on the line, you only think
you're going fast!
Randy
You answered your own question - it's about the drive, not the speed/time.
It's about exploring/pushing limits in a controlled setting, experimenting with different lines/techniques, and learning to recognize and work the subtle cues that a fine sports car transmits through it's steering, brakes, chassis, etc. There's not much subtlety in a Corvette.
But I do agree with you in one regard - if you don't appreciate or care about the Cayman's impeccable quality, refinement, feel, and response, then save yourself $15,000 and enjoy the torque.
Well, if you think you're going fast, what else matters? But then, if you're like me, when I see a bike ahead, I have to catch him and see if I can pass. And, if I think I'm going fast, all is well until someone passes me. I would love track time IF there was a track close, and IF my priorities were to throw money at chasing a tenth of a second while chasing my tail round and round in a circle. Maybe at 21 it would have been top priority. And it was, but in different ways. I always had one of the faster muscle cars. Today, I prefer to spend my $$ in other ways, like a winter home in AZ, or play Scrooge McDuck. Oh, I would still run a course if I had the chance, just for the experience, but now, when I have done something I wanted to, I would rather move on and experience something else. I always enjoy those tight little roads though, and a Boxster or a BMW 335 is more than adequate for that. In fact, after driving all of the BMW's, the 335 is my choice with the 6xx series coming in second. 335 will whup the 6 though. The upcoming 1xx series with the same 300 HP twin turbo six should be awesome. It will be interesting to see how it does against the Vette. Especially if there is an M. Bad for the ego to get passed by a bottom line six. I found a track in Texas where you drive an outlaw car. Seems like it was a day or so, and you got 100 laps for $3000. THAT, I would love to do. I always felt that if I could find something that would leap up in the air and turn a somersault when I hit the throttle................ This would be about as close as you could get, other than a dragster of a funny car. On the street, my old Kawasaki 2 stroke 750CC triple was close. Within 3 months I had modified it. Couldn't keep the front wheel on the ground. Ain't toys fun. Takes lots more finesse to shave seconds off on a road course, I would guess.
But I do agree with you in one regard - if you don't appreciate or care about the Cayman's impeccable quality, refinement, feel, and response, then save yourself $15,000 and enjoy the torque. "
Well, I would agree that most don't feel the Vette is subtle.
On the other hand, it is a far different world with the C5
than prior gen's and the C6 is another step in the right
direction. Try one some time.
As for enjoying the torque vs. the Cayman S, I noted that it
is the better car although it's hard to say with equal drivers.
It takes more skill to drive the 911, or, I think the Cayman
than a 50/50 Vette. I see guys that can make 911 RS clones
do amazing things with much less HP. The Cayman takes more
talent as was evident when I coached a Cayman driver at the
Buttonwillow track for a day. Now, admittedly the guy was
never going to be very fast but the car made up for a lot,
until he forget that the blind entry to the Off Ramp went
off camber and instead of hitting the brakes before entry he
hit the throttle and then hit the brakes too hard after his
turn in. We ended up about 50' into the dirt and to give the
kid credit he did lock down and only slid sideways so he got
all the following wave of dirt through his window and not
mine. As I noted, he was very lucky, me too, since we only
got to about 4' from the tire bales. So, I appreciate the
Cayman and it may well be worth the extra $15k, but for equal
bucks, the Vette is far superior to the Boxster.
Randy
... "
I have to agree that if there is something up the next
straight that wasn't there before it gets me going since I
know I'm closing it. I don't know many on track that look
at it otherwise. As to chasing the last 1/10th, well there
aren't that many kids out on track, mostly folks that have
achieved something and do tracking vs. golf, etc. Racers are
a different crowd. As to getting 1/10th's off, I've been
doing it for 5 years and just set some new personal bests at
Thunderhill so there is always more to achieve. I'm glad to
say
Randy
Not to drag this on, but...regarding "equal bucks," I'd say the Honda S2000 is also superior to the Vette - and significantly less expensive. Apples and oranges I know, but the Honda is simply telepathic - magical (and I have a place in my heart for high-strung inline 4's).
Keep the rubber side down Randy.
Jerry
Suburu and Mitsubushi, WRX and Evo are a better bang for the
buck if someone wants to drive them. The S2000 is amazing on
track but is a handful with shorter wheelbase. The 2 4WD
cars can be driven what I call 'stupid fast', they go well
beyond what new drivers are capable of controlling, hence
I've seen several roll/flip at track days.
But, the S2000 was simply too small inside for me at this
point in my life, much tighter than my '72 MGB for instance.
And the other two are just not sporty, IMO, no matter how
capable. It is a matter of finding something that tickles
your fancy and being happy.
Thanks for the good wishes in all cases. I'll try to keep
the rubber on the road when I get over to Spring Mt. MSP
for the next event. And yes, my wife is a very tolerant
woman, in addition to having her own non-track Corvette.
Randy
I just stumbled across it. You want brute power? Here ya go.
Outlaw driving school
http://outlawdrivingschool.com/classes.html
http://www.tintdude.com/auto-detailing.html
I just use a polisher with just a touch of compound - scratch remover, whatever. Buff lightly until the compound burnishes out to a shine with just a light residue of compound left, then remove that with a cloth or towel. Experiment to find the method that works for you. On bad surfaces, I color sand with 1500-2500 wet-or-dry sand paper, then rubbing or polishing compound. Hand waxers may shudder, but it works. Once you get to this point, you can hand wax if you like. If a scratch has gone through the clear coat. there isn't much you can do, although I always wanted to carefully fill one like that with clear coat. and then color sand starting with a block, to get the surface level. Has anyone done this? Other methods/products?
I have a 99 C5 and in the next month I am going to strip off all the old wax , clean the paint, clay magic it, and reapply wax. Probably a 2 day project but the car should look pretty good.
I find the scratch and swirl removers make for good marketing.
just remembered i have to get a new air filter--just did a hard drive thru AZ and Nevada.
both our Vette's done a couple times. Whatever he did the
last time on my Electron Blue took out the vast majority of
the swirls and it looks good, except for the rock chips on
the head light covers and hood, not to mention under the
door panels. The wife's is Mill... Yellow and always seems
to look good. Then again it never runs on race tracks.
Zaino has some very good stuff. I use the spray on spot
cleaner and it does wonders.
Randy
Don't do it.
When it stops, it's full.
overfill. However, my '02 is like most older cars, it will
take whatever I want to add to round up to even $ amount.
Randy
And, on other forums with much, much more discussion that this one, most of them - when a pump hose click off, if you continue, it's going to go on the ground, after flowing down the side of your shinny car.
And, I don't know if the C6 started the design, but I know my 2007 has a split tank. There are about 10 gallons on the left side, and another 10 gallons on the right side.
And, there is a huge amount of hardware for the fuel tank. It basically has a large hose at the top that is used when filling to allow gas to flow to the other side tank. And it has a separate pump that does nothing but move gas from one side to the other where the actual fuel pump resides. And the computer looks at flow rates and if fuel is not transferring between the two tanks it will set an error message. And there have been cars towed because problems with this system.
On one of the other forums I noted, there is a picture of an entire fuel tank system pulled from a car. And a schemetic. Very complex.
So, something about this system allows gas to completely fill it up. To the top. More will run over.
And, like Corvettes do, some new ones will NOT take gas. People talk about 15 minutes to put 10 gallons in a car. This has happened to mine one time - it shut down at about half a tank.
Car: 2007 C6 Coupe, 3LT, A6, ‘Base Suspension’.
Use: 75+ percent = commuting in & out of Mid-Town HotLanta. The rest has been primarily the typical errand running, shopping, out-to-dinner and a couple of longer runs – 500+ miles in a long weekend.
Overall MPG: Current average for all use: 22.37
Highway MPG: Consistently over 28.
This is my first Corvette, and my first sports \ GT car – in over 38 years of buying cars.
There is much to commend the C6, and I have largely enjoyed the driving experience. I am glad I [ finally ] decided to buy a Corvette. A confluence of personal circumstances & the additional refinements of the ’07 C6 made this a viable choice – for me.
The fact that this very high performance GT car can actually be used as a Daily Driver & commuter is still rather surprising to me. The actual, average fuel mileage continues to be remarkable, though I had read accounts here & elsewhere regarding similar mileage before purchasing mine.
The acceleration is certainly exceptional. Under most driving conditions, the C6 is docile & not nearly as demanding, as noisy or as stiff riding as sports cars I remember driving & riding in as recently as 10 years ago. I find the ride and the seating quite livable, in both commuting and longer trips.
I have great respect for the Corvette team. They have developed an extraordinarily capable and rewarding vehicle to drive – at what I see as a very reasonable price.
And yet, when the time does come to sell or trade my C6, I expect that I will not replace it with another Corvette.
The reasons for that have more to do with my personal preferences and my use of the car as a Daily Driver than anything I’d describe as inherently ‘wrong’ with the C6.
For those who may care, my reasons to choose a different car than a Corvette next time include:
Life’s just too short to ( with rare exceptions ) repeat such things as car ownership. The selection of interesting vehicles available continues to grow each day, it seems. I enjoy variety, and even a significantly enhanced C6 will not likely be ‘different enough’ to sway me. But that’s just me & just my opinion . . .
More seriously: I had a significant trans. issue ( described elsewhere ) that finally resulted in ‘only third gear’ & a CEL at approx. 12,000 miles. The preliminary symptoms of that issue appear to be re-surfacing recently. This re-occurrence of a major ( supposedly ‘fixed’ ) problem, I find rather discouraging, troubling & very irritating.
I remain concerned each time I drive this car that I will smack something vulnerable under the front end. I am very careful at intersections & driving over \ through abrupt transitions – yet even the 2” drop, backing out of my garage scrapes the front spoiler every time. I understand that the lowness is an integral part of the Corvette Experience – and clearly contributes to the nimble and ‘confidence inspiring’ handling. I have seen threads here about raising the car – and it also appears that somewhat more aggressive damping ( Koni FSDs, perhaps ) might also help. But I doubt I’ll do either. I will just live with this until I trade. It annoys me that I have to.
The ongoing issues with properly lifting a C6 amaze me – and I am very glad that I have so far not had to take my car for service to any but “my” ( selling ) dealer. Seems to me that, at this point in the Corvette model year(s) cycle, taking a C6 to most any Chevy Dealer should not be a cause for nervousness & trepidation. But it certainly is, at least for me.
Although I had no problem with hand washing my C6 in my driveway every weekend, I cannot now ( legally ) do that. And with the current ( and likely future ) water restrictions here in North Georgia, I do now rue the fact that I cannot take the car through even a “high-end” car wash, occasionally.
I really miss a true sunroof \ moonroof. Much more than I expected that I would. I have had a tilt up or slide back clear roof on every car I have purchased since 1985, and several sedans I had before that had solid sunroofs. I have the clear top & purchased the headliner from DSVettes. The fact that I cannot tilt up the rear of the roof, for additional ventilation & the fact that when the top is removed, the resulting buffeting reduces the comfortable top speed ( for me ) to well below my typical highway pace combine to mean I really do miss the convenience a more traditional moonroof with sliding sunscreen offered – and a switch that conveniently & instantly allowed a number of combinations of sun, shade & additional fresh air. While driving. Oh, well. Having to re-apply silicone monthly to all top mating surfaces, to avoid annoying creaks, snaps & groans is a minor ( related ) annoyance.
The one time I had an issue with an OEM run-flat Goodyear ( even having done research on this here prior to purchase ) I was still amazed at the mis-information and lack of help I received from both Chevy Dealers and Goodyear stores.
I was and I remain annoyed that I had to spend additional $$s to make my Corvette sound like – well, like anything, really. The OEM system on my 2007 allowed virtually none of the characteristic heterodyne beat of a V8 motor to escape. And the ‘drone’ issue on any aftermarket A6 system makes this doubly aggravating. If I’d waited & bought a 2008, I’d have bought the new NPP \ dual mode OEM system. And a Mild2Wild ‘switch’. As it is, I have had a compromise \ hybrid system installed, that is “OK”.
I miss having more storage space in the passenger compartment.
I miss having a back seat. Though I rarely have used one for passengers, the additional room was useful for ‘stuff’ I typically carry.
Now I hasten to add here ( again ) that none of this is meant to disparage or ‘disrespect’ the C6. It is a commendable effort. Overall, it is a terrific GT car - and if any car with an MSRP over $50K can be termed ‘a bargain’, then I consider it to be a bargain. And it is the only GT car I can imagine that I could actually use as a Daily Driver. And I do recognize that any sedan I might choose will ( stock ) not be in the same acceleration or handling class as the C6. (( sigh ))
If I could justify having a car that was exclusively devoted to weekend “for fun only” duty, it would almost certainly be a Corvette Coupe.
Cheers,
- Ray
Hoping the next 15,500 miles will be even better . . .
different experiences that arrive at the present, so the
Corvette my be perfect for some and maybe have some issues
for others.
I really relate to your comment about newer cars vs. older
sports cars. I drove an MG for a dozen of more years in
the 70's/80's before commuting in a Nissan for 15 years, and
when I got the C5 I thought I would keep the mileage down by
going with a low mile C4 for the 5 mile commute to the BART
station. After a year, it was so much less satisfying to
get into the C4 that I unloaded it so I could drive the C5
more. 73k miles later I'm still pretty happy.
Randy
Spring Mountain Motorsports Park in Pahrump, NV, about 55 miles to
the NW of Las Vegas. There were about 100 Corvettes on track for
the weekend in 5 different classes. Some very fast race cars driven
by folks that compete nationally with SCCA and NASA as well as folks
who were out for the first time on track with instructors. The NCM has
several folks that organize and run events and with some support and
entries from GM staff it makes for a great weekend of meeting folks
from all over the country. Got to do some laps with one of the GM brass
and then provided rides to several folks and one spouse who wanted
to see the track.
Spring Mountain is the home to a Corvette driving school so they are
very familiar with the cars and the best line to get around the 3.1 mile
course we were driving. They provided some late Friday laps at lower
speeds to get folks up to speed on the upper Radical loop which is
new to most of the folks not from the So. Calif area. It is a portion of the
track not used in the regular school and is much tighter than the main
course. This resulted in a few offs during the weekend but nobody did
any thing fatal to their car's for the whole weekend. There were a few
mechanicals, but considering there were some GM staff cars that
were driving in four out of five sessions, the cars got used heavily.
The turn out was truly national as I got to talk to several folks from the
Bay Area, like me, and also three black Z06's that were towed in from
GA on a single 5th wheel rig by three couples. There were also guys
I talked to from WA, Chicago, NY and Maryland. It was worth the 1000+
mile round trip just to meet some of the top Corvette folks from GM.
Hopefully they will come out to the Bay Area one of these days.
Randy
Car seems to run fine. Thanks
But, yes, it could be something else in the fuel system rather than the cap. If the system is not air tight because of another leak, this message will be displayed.
It does seem the gas mileage is running a little behind right now.
Appreciate your insight
Thanks for any suggestions....
my GTO gas cap failed as many do, and was replaced under warranty. GM later sent a letter saying that the gas cap warranty has been extended to 100k miles for all GTOs.
in my case there was no pressure seal, but also no OBD dashboard warning - i drove it like that for months. mpg seemed lower.
Discusses current sales downturn and production. Also mentions future economy
http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/04/autos/corvette_not_leaving/?postversion=20080107- 14
This is about the future economy issue, I like the line about Corvette MPG being
better than smaller sports cars. Gotta love torque and that tall 6th gear.
What a concept--- a hypermiler in a Corvette!
I have an 89 Convertible that I'll probably put up for sale in the spring. I'm trying to establish a sale price but in doing a little research I'm seeing pricing for comparable Vettes that are just all over the place. Can anyone advise a good resource to assist in ascertaining a realistic fair market value ?
My Vette is real cherry with only a little over 17,000 miles and has seen no bad weather driving. Photos here: 89 Vette Photos
Thanks,
Chuck
Well would you throw rocks at me if I said "worn out as per a GM ignition switch?" (the C5s used to jam a lot IIRC)
But seriously, the advice still applies regardless of mileage. Good luck tracking this down.
Clark
Thanks again,
Joe
But if you seriously want to win and to lessen the chance of equipment failure, you really need to practice and correctly. My guess is the bunch of guys you work with have done this more than once.
I personally would not do it unless I was ready for a minimum of a new clutch, flywheel and throw out bearing combo. (before you do this, you might want to peg a cost) Also you can easily fry a set of 1200-1500 dollar tires. So really a set of drag strip tire and rim combo is almost a must.
Have the car warmed up, put the tranny in Sport mode, don't touch the paddles, leave traction control turned on, and just stand on it when the light turns green.
I think you will eat their lunch.