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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    None for me!!

    Wow!!! you get free oil changes???? Well I guess maybe 20 years of free oil changes would cover the price difference.

    Well you cound watch me pull away from you and then rear end me. Then you'll see the difference!!!

    Nah, I'd catch ya before the end because you'd have to pull over for gas sooner or swing by dealer for a recall or some other problem.

    The 2006 warranty is the same as the 2006 DCX. ITs about 3000.00 if you add side airbags.

    Wow, you must have excellent intelligence....I can't find anything on 06 warranties for DCX Minivans yet. On Edmunds they still show 7/70 for Magnum. What's your source, for both the warranties and pricing? I've seen Honda people spending $2k in this Forum...guess you can't blame em heh?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    That's not sarcasm I sense, is it dennis? More power to you! (pun intended for Odyssey owners)

    FYI - I don't own a 911 YET :) it's just my dream car, same as the Oddy is my dream Minivan of course :P
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    The truth is that these magazines, CR or otherwise, are not all that consistent nor conclusive. In production vehicles there are often...normally, actually...variations from vehicle to vehicle that can determine the outcome of a speed test. CR only tests one sample of each vehicle. Chryslers are notorious for long engine break ins and tight drivetrains that contribute to high initial friction losses. Honda engines have a long reputation for low intial engine friction (that's a compliment to Honda, by the way).

    The true test would be an average over a number of vehicles. In addition, testing them after mileage accumulatiuon is far more accurate since the performance will be more representative of the average life of the vehicle.

    Dusty
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Wouldn't it be safe to go by the Chrysler website? It claims 10.2 sec to 60 mph. Honda made a claim (if i'm not mistaken, of 8.6 sec). = 1.6 sec

    Just adding info...
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    Honda is recalling 85,154 2005 Odyssey minivans because a faulty sensor for the front airbag system could keep a warning lamp on the instrument panel from illuminating.(85,154 out of 121,292 sold year to date is about 70% of the production).
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Are you sure this isn't #4 from a few months ago? Sounds very similar.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    is from 9/25/05 Chicago Tribune and recall is dated 8/7/05.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Because my 02 T&C LX 3.3L downshifted 2 gears when I stomped on the accelerator at 60-65 MPH in the same place as I stomped on the accelerator in the 2004 Sienna LE which just quickly downshifted and rapidly accelerated to 75-80 MPH. Yes, the engine was more roar than go BUT I do not feel a minivan is an appropriate vehicle to drag race. My T&C has always been able to go as fast as I have felt safe anywhere I have driven it and it has delivered BETTER gas mileage for me than my son gets with his 01 Ody EX ( 5 to 8 MPG better on road trips).
    2002 T&C LX 3.3L 26.5 MPG and 28.2 MPG on 2 long round trips. ;) Ody got between 20 and 24 MPG on road trips when it has been checked. :sick:
    Maybe my son is like some Ody owners and feels he has to jack rabbit accelerate and pass everyone else on the highway?
    My close comparison of minivans proved to me that the GC SXT gives the MOST for the lowest actual price paid.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    You may be right about his driving style, because at a steady speed of 77 (cruise set for 200 miles) my family's 2000 Ody got 25.5 mpg on our last trip to Gulf Shores, AL (where IVAN hit) from Birmingham, AL. Coming home my father drove, and did 80-85 (I-65 is a FAST highway through lower Alabama) and got 23.8. Slightly below epa when going that fast, but accurate to slightly above when going under 80) I've gotten 27 before, but that was going the speed limit in the hills of NE Alabama (70 mph).

    Who drag races minivans? Do you know, in all honesty, that of our many miles I have never floored our Ody. It is DEFINITELY not necessary, since it will accelerately rapidly without doing so. Good to know the power is there should we need it (can't say the same of our 1996 Accord 4-cyl, which has had a couple of nerve-racking merges on the same uphill on-ramp, in which I HAVE had to floor it and wind the engine up to reach 65 or 70 {short ramp!})
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    The DCX vans (WITHOUT rollover protection) get the same rating as the Honda Odyssey (WITH rollover protection), 4 stars. So is it really needed in the DCX vans?
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    The DCX vans (WITHOUT rollover protection) get the same rating as the Honda Odyssey (WITH rollover protection), 4 stars. So is it really needed in the DCX vans?

    Well what happen is when a inpending rollover happens the pretensioners are activated and the sida airbags are deployed(To protect your head from hitting things and keep you in the vehicle). Now maybe you don't want this feature, I know I do!!! Also the VSC will help you avoid this in some situations. In a word do you need it. No!! But if you rollover(which is second highest percentage of deaths behind frontal) I would be wishing I had got it.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Nah, I'd catch ya before the end because you'd have to pull over for gas sooner or swing by dealer for a recall or some other problem

    Well with a bigger gas tank and better gas mileage on the Honda. I don't think so but don't let logic get in the way. As for recalls I haven't had any. So if you do and I don't will that make your cars worse?? As usually grasping at the only straw you can find!! Talk about I'm superior complex!! ;)
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Well with a bigger gas tank and better gas mileage on the Honda. I don't think so but don't let logic get in the way. As for recalls I haven't had any. So if you do and I don't will that make your cars worse?? As usually grasping at the only straw you can find!! Talk about I'm superior complex!!

    There's only one flaw here, according to CR, you're not actually getting better gas mileage, and if you're speeding away from a stop light you'll never hit close to EPA numbers.

    Seems like your chances for recalls are much better than DCX owners - based on actual recalls and problems.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    The DCX vans (WITHOUT rollover protection) get the same rating as the Honda Odyssey (WITH rollover protection), 4 stars. So is it really needed in the DCX vans?

    Well what happen is when a inpending rollover happens the pretensioners are activated and the sida airbags are deployed(To protect your head from hitting things and keep you in the vehicle). Now maybe you don't want this feature, I know I do!!! Also the VSC will help you avoid this in some situations. In a word do you need it. No!! But if you rollover(which is second highest percentage of deaths behind frontal) I would be wishing I had got it.

    Minivans have one of the lowest chances of rollovers of any vehicles. Unless you're driving like an idiot, racing from stoplights to prove your manliness or something, you are probably safe with your DCX. If you haul a lot of kids, opt for the side curtain airbags ($600) or spend $5000 - $10,000 more on an Oddy.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    "As for recalls I haven't had any." Congradulations on being part of the "lucky" 30% of the last recall. Post #4595
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Some Honda owners are very lucky!!!! I can think of one Honda owner who's never had a single problem with theirs, hits the EPA numbers or probably exceeds them, and purchased it close to Honda's cost.

    I was getting worried the past few days though, there's been very little posting on the Honda Problems area. I knew it wouldn't last long....one owner putting new brake pads on after 10k miles!!! Pads must not last too long in order to provide the vastly superior braking that Oddys are touted for.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Minivans have one of the lowest chances of rollovers of any vehicles.

    Wow, I thought an Odyssey would roll over before a Lotus would...

    Baseless information?

    Why not go the extra mile with stability control?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Why not go the extra mile with VCM?

    Sure, if one's willing to spend the $$$$ on it, or buy a less equipped model. My other car has DSC, and in 4 years of ownership, it's come on a few times - only in non emergency situations like hitting a bump on a wet road.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    In my 1996 Accord (this was a while back), I got passed on a two-lane, arching-uphill, no-passing zone (obviously) bridge. [Apparently 50 in a 45 wasn't FAST ENOUGH ! LOL]The car passing me (an F-150) met an oncoming car, and swerved back into my lane, causing me to swerve. I skidded out of control, spun twice, and ended up eating the guardrail that kept me from falling 50 feet into a railyard. It's these kinds of emergencies that make the cost of that safety feature worthwhile to me. If you never have an incident like this (hopefully nobody will!), then you may have (seemingly) spent money for nothing. It is worth the security to me, as I'd give the 3 or 4 grand to not have persistent back trouble from that wreck!

    (Sidebar: The car was not totaled, despite the fact that it impacted the rail at 45 mph while skidding sideways, and drug the front portion (bumper, grill, headlights/blinkers) of the car completely off :sick: . I was not hurt, except for back pain that rears itself e pretty often. The truck that caused this never stopped, and no witnesses got tag numbers. You can see why I like Stability Control and have a hard time understanding why someone would opt out of it. I do my best to realize that not everyone can, or WANTS to spend extra money on a vehicle for one option, especially when the alternative vehicle is still quite safe without it. I wanted to make my case known, and thanks for understanding.)

    I hope this is the last beating that I have to give this dead horse... :)
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    saddle up graduate... ;) I would opt for VSC if given the choice. But, from what I understand of VSC, if you turn and skid before braking then VSC does not come into play. Don't your brakes have to be engaged to activate VSC?

    Going 50-60mph...all it takes is one quick turn of the wheel to lose control of the car. Doubtful if VSC would make much of a difference. The testing done on VSC is pretty much based on theories/computer simulations....not real life field tests.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    So you don't think that, given VSC, that scenario could have been made more preventable with VSC? Interesting...

    BTW, brakes were activated the within the second he came towards me, ( I dont think I mentioned whether or not I did) probably adding to the severity of the skid. With proper, individual, wheel braking, I think that the skid could have been avoided, even if I had ended up in the wall anyway, skid prevention is ALWAYS a benefit.

    What do you mean, saddle up?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Going 50-60mph...all it takes is one quick turn of the wheel to lose control of the car. Doubtful if VSC would make much of a difference.

    I was wondering that too.....but I'm no expert, and can you count on technology in every situation?
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    May be a repost but: Pollution measured in pounds of smog producing material in 15,000 miles.
    Dodge Grand Caravan 3.8 V6 = 12.3 - 12.9 lbs
    Honda Odyssey 3.5 V6 = 20.8 - 25.0 lbs.
    Source, Edmunds model comparasion. It seems that extra second or so of acceleration produces more than speed.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    There's only one flaw here, according to CR, you're not actually getting better gas mileage, and if you're speeding away from a stop light you'll never hit close to EPA numbers.

    Here are the CR numbers DCX 11mpg city 25 hwy overall 17mpg!!! Honda Odyssey 12MPG city 28MPG hwy overall 19mpg. 2 MPG overall better for the Honda. Should I just copy and save this because that is the fact.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Minivans have one of the lowest chances of rollovers of any vehicles. Unless you're driving like an idiot, racing from stoplights to prove your manliness or something, you are probably safe with your DCX. If you haul a lot of kids, opt for the side curtain airbags ($600) or spend $5000 - $10,000 more on an Oddy.

    5000-10,000 Not even close!! No side airbags with sunroof too. Just strange!! As far as rollovers here are death rates from minivans. Not very many people drive minivans like a idiots, so lets not go there please!. This comes from IIHS data Honda deaths per 1 million registered vehicles per year! 1999-2002 Honda Odyssey 16(1 rollover) 2001-2002 Dodge GC 52(11 rollover 20%+ from rollovers) 2001-2002 Dodge SWB caravan 83(16).

    While minivans aren't as bad as SUV's and pickups they are not as good as most sedans!!
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Sure, if one's willing to spend the $$$$ on it, or buy a less equipped model. My other car has DSC, and in 4 years of ownership, it's come on a few times - only in non emergency situations like hitting a bump on a wet road.

    You proved my point the DSC came on and there was a nonemergency situation after that. BTW weren't you the guy that said you started sliding in snow and the DSC brought you back in line!! I gotta find that post LOL!!!
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    saddle up graduate... I would opt for VSC if given the choice. But, from what I understand of VSC, if you turn and skid before braking then VSC does not come into play. Don't your brakes have to be engaged to activate VSC?

    Going 50-60mph...all it takes is one quick turn of the wheel to lose control of the car. Doubtful if VSC would make much of a difference. The testing done on VSC is pretty much based on theories/computer simulations....not real life field tests.

    VSC comes on automaticly. It senses your car starts going of coarse and brakes individual brakes to bring you in line!! It will also reduce engine output. Antilock braking is what your thinking of, that is a lower fucion of VSC. MB has done research on cars with and without this feature and found the cars with it had much fewer crashes!

    Heres another article with research into same model cars with and without. Seems to help most with single vehicle crashes and in reducing fatalities.

    link title
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Dodge Grand Caravan 3.8 V6 = 12.3 - 12.9 lbs
    Honda Odyssey 3.5 V6 = 20.8 - 25.0 lbs.

    This surprises me, I thought Honda were all LEV or ULEV? Also I thought I saw this info on Window Sticker and Honda's are very low?? Are you sure?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Here are the CR numbers DCX 11mpg city 25 hwy overall 17mpg!!! Honda Odyssey 12MPG city 28MPG hwy overall 19mpg. 2 MPG overall better for the Honda. Should I just copy and save this because that is the fact.

    This from the latest issue of CR??? I see the Dodge in there concerning fuel economy at all?? Please clarify if you can.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Not very many people drive minivans like a idiots, so lets not go there please!.

    Sorry but I'm not the one who brought up racing from a stoplight and leaving me in the dust.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    You proved my point the DSC came on and there was a nonemergency situation after that. BTW weren't you the guy that said you started sliding in snow and the DSC brought you back in line!! I gotta find that post LOL!!!

    I was on exit ramp going around a curve, with a little snow and it kicked in. I was not doing anywhere near the speed limit. I have my doubts that it could work in high speed situations.
  • aaron_taaron_t Member Posts: 301
    I don't think this is the place to argue the merrits of stability control. Honda has it, DCX does not. If a prospective shopper values it, they know what dealer to hit.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    May be a repost but: Pollution measured in pounds of smog producing material in 15,000 miles.
    Dodge Grand Caravan 3.8 V6 = 12.3 - 12.9 lbs
    Honda Odyssey 3.5 V6 = 20.8 - 25.0 lbs.
    Source, Edmunds model comparasion. It seems that extra second or so of acceleration produces more than speed.

    It is a repost, but I've still never seen how Edmunds came up with this data. According to the EPA Air Pollution scores, they are rated as follows:

    Dodge/Chrysler 3.8L - 2 (39-40.6 #/15,000 miles)

    Honda 3.5L- 6 (12.2-12.9 #/15,000 miles)

    This information can be confirmed at www.epa.gov and http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/best/rating.shtml

    According to greenercars.com the Honda Odyssey is the highest rated minivan, with an ULEV II rating. The Dodge/Chrysler 3.3L is ranked one behind the Honda, but the 3.8L is not listed at all in the top ranked vehicles.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    Don't know where you came up with your numbers, because checking the referenced site which is based on EPA mileage ratings and many assumptions."Numerous assumptions and calculations are necessary to estimate full fuel-cycle greenhouse gas emissions in carbon dioxide equivalents. Because of this, estimates from different sources will vary somewhat. Our estimates are taken from the U.S. Department of Energy's GREET model, version 1.5 developed by Argonne National Laboratory." This referenced site lists greenhouse gas emissions in tons/year and lists the 05 Dodge at 8.60 tons for the 3.3 V6 and 9.40 for the 3.8 V6. It lists the Honda Odyssey at 8.90 tons for the 3.5 V6. To be fair, I don't know where Edmunds comes up with their numbers, more research is needed
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    Here is the site (Edmunds) I referenced.
    http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison;jsessionid=D5NkztfbxDpFSLLhsLT77- TKS72wN6Ry9bpPlx5T8h27Qk7GQndjc!1816916779?styleid=100625408&styleid=100385998&maxvehicles- =5&refid=&op=3&tab=ratings
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    I don't know if VSC would have made a difference in your situation or not. I suppose it just depends on a variety of factors and variables. i.e speed,slope, angle, reaction time differentials. With your added information of brakes being activated very quickly I think it probably would have. As I said before, there really isn't a whole lot of test data on VSC...none that I have seen didn't seem worth much. My thinking is, once you hit a certain speed and lose control of your vehicle....not much you, or the car, can do but hold on and pray. I think once you get over 45-50mph, the VSC would become less and less a factor in preventing a skid/accident.

    You said it was hopefully the last beating you had to give this "dead horse"(VSC)...hense my "saddle up" response. As I reopened the topic of VSC with my question. I guess that joke needs to be shot :sick:
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    In the days I managed a large auto repair facility, I had to deal with people sometimes who could go through brakes in 10,000 miles or less.

    It's the DRIVER, not the car! I don't care what make the car is!
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    The Greenhouse Gas Scores are directly a result of fuel mileage. The higher the EPA mileage, the lower the greenhouse emissions. No real testing going on here.

    I was referring to the Air Pollution Score, which is directly related to each engines output of various pollution. There is a chart which references how much of each gas is allowed to meet a corresponding score, the vehicle is rated based on those output levels. This is what was referred to by Edmunds, since they called it smog-forming pollutants. From what I have gathered, Edmunds numbers don't match up with anything.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    As far as the saddle up thing, sorry I wasn't thinking about the obvious pun I had made... Wasn't paying attention I guess...

    I agree that once control is lost, VSC wouldn't help regain it, but VSC is programmed to keep you from LOSING control, not help you regain it after it is lost. It is supposed to keep you stable in the first place, not get you stable after spinning around...

    To get to the point, I don't honestly know (no one does) if VSC could have prevented my wreck (like you say, circumstances will be different for each and every one), I do know that if a violent skid was already underway without VSC intervention, that it would be highly unlikely that it would be able to take me out of the skid. I think it would prevent a skid altogether. I'm not a computer tech for cars, a safety designer, or a Honda expert (yes I drive one, but have had 2 DCX made vehicles), I just feel safer with VSC, knowing that I will never know how often it saves me from crashing, only how often it fails to.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    :) For most minivan drivers, IMO, a power advantage would be beneficial when merging with a load of kids/people and/or cargo, not drag racing. If merging isn't commonplace where the driver of the van lives, then having more power would be less advantagious as compared with a daily driver of 2 different interestates, meaning any engine over, say, 150 hp should be quite sufficient to the non-merger. Can't we agree to this? If I didn't drive on a freeway where the average speed was 75, and my on-ramp wasn't dreadfully short and uphill, I'd be in a mileage-monger instead of a powerhouse engine, trust me! :shades:
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Good link for folks that don't understand stability control or want to know more.

    http://www.esceducation.org/index.shtml

    I know many of the car mags complain they can't get max performance out of vehicles with stability control because it doesn't let them push the vehicles to the limits. Some are more obtrusive than others. The fact it won't let the vehicle be pushed to the limits says something.
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    vsc IMO is invaluable. You can skid in roads with light to moderate snow going 25 mph around a curve, let alone having black ice on the road. It happened to me a few times last year and I am a believer of vsc.

    as far as hp goes, there is virtually no difference if you only have one or two people on board these vans. But if you stack 6-7 people in them, there is a big difference in acceleration, braking and handling between these two vans, and the other ones as well. I don't know whether it's the engine or tranny or gearing. That's how I tested them before I purchased the ody.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    Just where on that site is this posted?
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    VSC applies the brakes to the wheel that needs braking just prior to a skid, thus preventing it from skidding. If you have already applied the anti-lock brakes, as most people would do, how is VSC supposed to help prevent a skid? See Google VSC.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    This from the latest issue of CR??? I see the Dodge in there concerning fuel economy at all?? Please clarify if you can.

    Its available online at CR free until 9/30. Just look under the CU vs government tests. If you looked at the latest addition it says to look there for results on all cars.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    In the days I managed a large auto repair facility, I had to deal with people sometimes who could go through brakes in 10,000 miles or less.

    It's the DRIVER, not the car! I don't care what make the car is!

    You may want to post this on the Honda - Problems and Solutions part of this forum. Some recent postings from Honda owners, think it's a Honda problem....brakes lasting 10k miles. I have seen people with brake lights on and accelerating at the same time!!!
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    VSC applies the brakes to the wheel that needs braking just prior to a skid, thus preventing it from skidding. If you have already applied the anti-lock brakes, as most people would do, how is VSC supposed to help prevent a skid? See Google VSC.

    Ok I'll try this one more time. It keeps you from losing control. Have you ever slid out from wet/snowy roads?? You are slidding way before you hit the brake. There's just not enough time to react. So it sees the car is starting to go off course and then brakes individual brakes and reduces the engine torque to keep you in line with where the driver is steering. If you applied the brakes the ABS should help reduce skid and still leave with ability to steer.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Only once or twice in my lifetime. Some of us learn fast and do not drive faster than the road conditions permit us to drive safely.
    I have NEVER been in an accident that caused any measureable damage.

    I feel that the DRIVER is the most important item for safety and for determining how long brake pads last.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Here is the EPA site.

    Under air polution score which is tailpipe emmisions that cause smog and health issues. 10 being best Honda Odyssey-7 Dodge 3.8L- 2. The greenhouse gas sroce was also higher. If those numbers come from the EPA wouldn't you think the EPA would have the right info?? The Honda Odyssey is the highest rated minivan by EPA standards. The Dodge is just rated.

    Here's the link!!

    link title
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    The info posted in 4646 is still incorrect. There is no 50 state Odyssey data, only California only and 49 state versions.Only 50 state versions of the DCX 3.8 are listed. Still no apples to apples.If you look at the little green U.S. map you can clearly see this the TRUTH. Poster Sebring95 is the poster I refer to that did not post where they got their data from.
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