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Toyota 3/4 Ton with Big Block V-8

ak4x4ak4x4 Member Posts: 126
edited March 2014 in Toyota
Considering Toyota has yet to make a Truck that Is a true "Full Size" And no, the Tundra is not a real Full Size(See MT issue this month I think it is MT Has a stang on the cover) I would really like to see a Toyota 3/4 ton but I think the I force 8 needs to be re-vamped for this truck. 240Hp dosen't cut it in the Tundra. They need at lest 285 Hp the Tourque can stay....
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Comments

  • mrb11mrb11 Member Posts: 58
    Do you think we'll ever see it? If not, why not? If they did ever produce a true 3/4 ton V-8 I'd bet they would dominate that portion of the truck market.
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    Just like they are dominating the 1/2 ton market?

    This was a nice morning chuckle
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    Ford F-Series
    118,793 -2.8% YTD
    February 2002: 63,423
    February 2001: 63,220

    Chevrolet Silverado
    113,616 +8.9%YTD
    February 2002: 62,432
    February 2001: 56,678

    GMC Sierra
    32,340 +16.7% YTD
    February2002: 18,730
    February 2001: 15,037

    Chevrolet Avalanche
    15,003
    February2002: 8,369
    February2001: n/a

    Toyota Tundra
    13,775 +1.2% YTD
    February 2002: 6,817
    February 2001: 7,413

    WOW even the "Ugly" as most of you see it OUTSOLD the tundra
  • mrb11mrb11 Member Posts: 58
    I said a true 3/4 ton!! I know they don't even build a true 1/2 ton.
  • themailman1themailman1 Member Posts: 95
    Have you ever heard of brand loyalty? I read that 80% of buyers go back with the same manufacturer when it comes time for a new vehicle. The chevy avalanche is not a truck but a plastic wanna be truck, chevy is alright but they have problems, just ask me father who is on his second in 2 years.Ford f150, junk. F 250 would be the only american truck to buy but don't get a ford engine get the power stroke diesel.Now my tundra is not perfect but I don't use it for work, I use it for play. 245 hp in the tundra cuts it but it comes higher in the rpm band than I would like, low end torque, needs just a little more. But look at it this way, my tundra will outlast a ford chevy or dodge any day. As for toyota making a 3/4 ton, don't hold your breath. They still have to work out offerings on the tundra and improve on something that already has a good start.Oh and wasn't that ford's sales rating a negative?Everyone has their choses but for me it was the tundra, some don't like it some do.
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    Where ARE all of those long lastin' toymotas ????

    (Rustin' in piece!!!)

    Face it. Toymota isn't going to dominate the market for a long time when only you gen-X squids are buying them.

    Besides, none of you work your Tundras to have a clue about what survives. Nor will Tundra surpass Dodge any time soon no matter what Consumer Reports says. The Ram is all new, and will sell 300k+ units in its first year. Toys aren't in the game. They need an infusion of "tough" (meaning no tacoma drivetrains).
  • vwracervwracer Member Posts: 90
    RYANBAD

    It Is NOT fair to compare feb 2002 truck sales of any manf to those of 2001 because of the events of the economy after 9-11 and the 0% financing available today.
  • losangelesemtlosangelesemt Member Posts: 279
  • kg11kg11 Member Posts: 530
  • hillhoundhillhound Member Posts: 537
    All you do is post some unbiased simple factual data and the Tundra pundits get their bowels all kinked up and call you names, tell you those sales figures are unfair, and call some domestic trucks "turds"!! Typical.

    Also, it's nice to hear "Confuser Retorts" thinks highly of the Tundra. On occasion I consult that rag when I'm in the market for a new blender or alarm clock. However, when I'm in the market for a 30K truck I'd rather put my trust into a publication that specializes in testing trucks and cars. That's why you don't see mags like Truck Trend rating carpet steamers.
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    Why does everyone wants to blame 9/11 on everything? Looks like ford did the same over a 1 yr difference. Chevy and gmc did alot better and only toyota did worse. So toyota not selling as many trucks was because of 9/11? PLEASE give me a break.

    I didnt compare feb 02 to 01. WWW.PICKUPTRUCK.COM did thats where i got the info. Thats how they do their sales figures. All factual information sorry those numbers arent made up.

    Reality bites eh guys?
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Member Posts: 897
    Heh.....in Ranger vs Tacoma forum, us Taco owners have been quoting different magazine sources for a while now, like fourwheeler mag, etc. You know what the reaction of Ranger crowd is? "Sure, 4-wheeler named Tacoma best 4x4, they have a huge Toyota ad in the magazine". What publications do you consult? Did any of them name Trailblazer "best truck of the year"?
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    we are talking about NONBIASED truck sales figures. Not an award but raw data.

    Cant dispute raw data
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Member Posts: 897
    Sales volume does not mean quality. Best example of that is WalMart and McDonalds.
    When I look at sales, I tend to check out growth instead of "Oh, Ford sold 60,000 F-series trucks last month". Sounds great, but if they sold 70,000 the month before, picture becomes somewhat grim.
    Just wait and see. What do numbers look like compared year by year, 2001 vs 2000, or anything other than month by month?
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    did you even see what i posted?

    lemme show ya again

    Ford F-Series
    118,793 -2.8% YTD
    February 2002: 63,423
    February 2001: 63,220

    Chevrolet Silverado
    113,616 +8.9%YTD
    February 2002: 62,432
    February 2001: 56,678

    GMC Sierra
    32,340 +16.7% YTD
    February2002: 18,730
    February 2001: 15,037

    Chevrolet Avalanche
    15,003
    February2002: 8,369
    February2001: n/a

    Toyota Tundra
    13,775 +1.2% YTD
    February 2002: 6,817
    February 2001: 7,413

    Like i said ford stayed the same, chevy and gmc increased and toyota decreased.

    What more evidence would you like?
  • tonyytonyy Member Posts: 26
    All this bashing is very destructive to a site. It would be nice if the kids could have their own site while the men discussed the knowledge they have acquired through many years of personal experience on a no kids allowed site.
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    so posting factual data is bashing?

    Interesting
  • kg11kg11 Member Posts: 530
    If Toyota sells 60,000 next month do they become MacDonalds? Can I supersize ?
    kip
  • hillhoundhillhound Member Posts: 537
    I like Truck Trend for one, and I'm being fair here when I say it because they've praised the Tundra (and I'm a biased GM fan!). The reason I like T.T. is that they seem to do REAL and EXTENSIVE tests on trucks in things trucks are meant for, such as towing, loading the bed and driving offroad. By EXTENSIVE for example, they not only report how the truck corners or accelerates unloaded, but give data and opinions on the same factors with the truck loaded.

    In my opinion, 4-Wheeler is a good one too, especially for info on aftermarket offroad items and do-it-yourself mechanic instructions. Car and Driver is not so good for useful pickup info, but it beats C.R.! At least the next page after the truck article has more auto info and not a page on what's the best bargain electric hedge clippers! LOL!
  • tonyytonyy Member Posts: 26
    Data is good, I can appreciate a conversation backed up with data. It is the lack of data and knowledge that must require references to "squids & turds" to be used in place of intelligent dialog.
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    Scorpio,
    You make a good point, that sales don't have to equal quality. The problem is, the other toy lovers like to say that because of the quality, everyone would be buying toys, and toymota would be dominating the 3/4 ton market if only they made one. Several problems with this argument. First, it's hypothetical since there is no 3/4 toy. Second, toymota hasn't proved anything even in the 1/2 ton class.

    Let's turn the clock back...to when you were thinking...."Gee, if Toyota only put a V8 in a 1/2 ton class truck, anyone would be a fool to think they wouldn't dominate the market."

    And now...the brand new Avalanche is outselling the established Tundra in Feb 2002.

    No joy in a boring, light duty compact billed as full size.
  • xyz71xyz71 Member Posts: 179
    is lame. Is the Camry a low rent piece of crap because it is the #1 selling mid-size car?
  • hillhoundhillhound Member Posts: 537
    Since you seem appreciate a topic backed up with data and intelligent coversation, why not quit focusing on this thead's detractive aspects and add your thoughts on the mentioned truck topics to the mix. What's your take on this question of mine:

    "Many folks on this and other truck forums think the Avalanche is ugly, overpriced and useless yet it's outselling the Tundra. Brand loyalty should be a small factor in this since the Avalanche is a niche vehicle. What's your take on this phenomenom?? I can't figure it out-the Tundra should be, as far as I'm concerned, a more popular, economical and useful truck than the Av. So why is the Avalanche so popular??"
  • tonyytonyy Member Posts: 26
    My guess would be that most of those are first time truck buyers. I expect a lot out of my trucks and they get used hard. I think this vehicle under hard use will develop a lot of annoying BSR issues.
  • hillhoundhillhound Member Posts: 537
    Could it be that percieved "quality" is less important in some folk's eyes than straightforward performance??

    I say that if Toyota would have soundly beaten at least one of the Big3's 1/2 ton trucks in size, capacity and engine power the Tundra's sales would be much, much higher. Instead they made a sub 1/2-ton size but high-quality truck that is average to below-average in truck performance aspects and now the sales are telling the tale.

    American truck buyers want bragging-right type performance in their pickups, and the Tundra doesn't deliver. Like it or not, I think quality is secondary in this market.

    TONYY:
    You may be right. I'm guessing alot of Avalanche owners will keep theirs' short-term and trade in on a conventional pickup or maybe an SUV after the novelty wears off. On the other hand, they do deliver good truck performance and are useful for some people. Because of this there may be a long-term market for the Av or variations of it.

    Now back to the 3/4 ton Tundra. Alot of Tundra owners are first time truck buyers also. Most first time truck buyers opt for 1/2 tons or mini-pickups. Toyota has had a fairly easy time selling the smallish Tundras, but few first time truck buyers go for a 3/4-ton. Since there's no first-time truck buyers market for a 3/4 ton Tundra, I think Toyota would have a hard time getting a 3/4 off the ground. For the first several years, sales would be a fraction of what the Tundra's are now which means Toyota would lose alot of money waiting and hoping the thing will justify it's existance. Are they willing to go for it? We'll see....
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    >I say that if Toyota would have soundly beaten at least one of the Big3's 1/2 ton trucks in size, capacity and engine power the Tundra's sales would be much, much higher. Instead they made a sub 1/2-ton size but high-quality truck that is average to below-average in truck performance aspects and now the sales are telling the tale.

    American truck buyers want bragging-right type performance<

    Well, not exactly. Bragging rights are fine, but the real issue is cost. The hypothetical, big capacity Tundra you refer to, that soundly beats the big3 in size, capacity and engine power will get trounced on from the large scale production economies of scale that are the domain of the Detroit automakers. Consider for example, the Silverado/Sierra can be optioned about as completely as any Yukon, Tahoe, Denali. But a Tundra LTD doesn't even approach the level of sophistication or refinement of Land Cruiser, Sequoia which have disc brakes on all corners, more sophisticated 4wd systems, and other improvements. If it did, it would be too expensive to compete with domestic trucks, but of less concern to the typically more wealthy or status conscious luxury suv buyer.
  • bamatundrabamatundra Member Posts: 1,583
    Leave this topic for a day and the Chev boys (babs,quad,hillyhoundog,KG, etc.) come back in force! This topic has gone to heck in a handbasket!

    We are talking trucks here, not overweight, underpowered, Mexican built, cheesy-plastic clad expensive junk.(Ava-lose-my-lunches).

    And I don't know where bab's source got their info,(Maybe from unemployed Enron accountants?) but the Ava-lauch-my-lunch does not outsell the Tundra.
    Sheez!
  • jcmdiejcmdie Member Posts: 594
    If Ryan's numbers above are acurate, the Avalanche IS outselling the Tundra.
  • mrb11mrb11 Member Posts: 58
    Wow!! Did my subject start a lively debate or what? Why are you all so against each other? It's proven fact that full size domestic pickups do things that Toyata Tundras can't do and Toyata Tundras will prove out to be more reliable than domestic pickups. I think we all agree that Lexus builds a more reliable vehicle than a Cady or Lincoln, a Camry is more reliable than a Tarus or Chevy Malibu and a Corolla is more reliable than any Ford or Chevy compact. I'm not saying I'm a Toyota fan I'm just stating the facts. I drive a HD 3/4 ton 4x4 Chevy with a 454 big block. Consumer reports is the best place to receive factual data on the reliability of vehicles. The data comes from you the consumer. I know the Truck Trends and al those other magazines are better at reporting performance, looks, etc., etc. But.....they don't track the reliability of a vehicle year by year like Consumers does. Reliability history show Toyota's mini pickup to be number one. I'm not saying the best performer just the most reliable. I think Toyota has just started to dabble in the full size pickup market. The Japanese have beat the snot out of the domestic car mfgr's. You have to admit.....They could copy your favorite Chevy, Ford, or Dodge pickup to a tee with far superior reliability if they wanted to . Again I'm not any big Toyota fan I own a Chevy. I just realize that facts are facts.
  • bamatundrabamatundra Member Posts: 1,583
    But babs numbers aren't correct. It is sad that Chev is putting $2000 rebates and 0% financing on their plug ugly abomination and the Tundra STILL outsells it.

    Let's face it - I wanted a US built pickup - not something with "made in Mexico" tags on it.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Member Posts: 897
    What I'd really like to see is a longterm test (2 years, maybe) of a group of trucks, compact pickup or fullsize. Take those trucks, and put them to work they were designed for, and record everything they do, like gas consumption, breakdowns, cost of repairs, etc. That would be a fair test, not any of those "Best Truck of the Year" awards that give an award to a Trailblazer that starts stalling 6 month out. Unfortunately, no magazine has the funding to do that kind of test, nor, I think, automakers wouldbe willing to do it. Chevy would not be willing because it seems, by Chevy owners admissions, they spend too much time at the shop. Ford..well, my uncle just had his front pass. brake fall apart on a freeway and lock up on him in a 2.5 year old F150. Luckly he was on a feeder road when that happened. Not sure whether or not Toyota would do it, Tundra is pretty new and has its own little problems.
    So we'll just have to keep fishing around the magazines. I just ask my mechanic what trucks he sees most at the shop :).
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Member Posts: 897
    xyz71: People seem to be under impression that truck that sells the most is the best thing since sliced bread. It isnt so.

    kg11: Yes, and you can get a bed-full of fries too.
  • mrb11mrb11 Member Posts: 58
    sc0rpi0: Consumers report is the very best source for reliability statistics. Have you ever subscribed to the magazine? They are influenced by no one. They advertise for no one, and will sue any manufacturer of any product that uses the Consumer reports name to promote their product. All the reliability facts come from people who own the product. I receive a Questionaire form every year from Consumers Reports regarding my vehicles. They want to know component by component what problems you've experienced with your vehicles. Engine, tran's, brakes, electrical, suspension, driveline. Air cond., body integ, hardware, etc., etc., etc. This year they polled a total of 512,000 vehicles in the USA. Pick up a copy of their annual auto addition. Look at the repair history of a vehicle you've owned and you'll see they're right on. I take a copy to the dealership when I'm buying a new truck or car to point out the historically unreliable components of their vehicles and they never argue. It helps in my negotiations. A mechanic can't possibly see enough vehicles to make an accurate assessment on what is reliable and what is not.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Member Posts: 897
    I am not against things like CR. In fact, it makes me feel good that Tacoma scored high in it. Unfortunately, Ranger fans won't accept that, because "Toyota must be paying CR off", just like "Toyota paid fourwheeler mag to rig the 4x4 truck of the year contest to put Tacoma in first place". What I'm usually against is the junk awards given out, like best new truck of the year, blah blah blah. Those are worthless.
  • mrb11mrb11 Member Posts: 58
    I totally agree with you on the car of the year truck of the year garbage. If a magazine is advertising for a product they're judging and or reviewing, you gotta be awfully naive in believing what they print. If the Ford Ranger folk don't believe what Consumers has to say, they need to consult with the all the Ford Ranger folk that fed the information to Consumers Report. I'm not saying I'm a big Toyota fan. I own a Chevy pickup. What Consumers says about my truck is pretty much right on.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Member Posts: 897
    So does your truck need a lot of repairs on average? In one of the forums there's a guy who said his Silverado spent 4 month in a garage. And how old is your truck?
  • mrb11mrb11 Member Posts: 58
    I have the old K series. I ordered it new from the factory back in 1998. I have only 34,000 miles on it. I could have ordered the the new 1999 Silverado but I wanted to remain with the 10 year old body style and tried and true 454 big block. So far it's been a good truck. The only thing I've had go wrong was a gas guage. I only use it to tow my boat and 4 wheel to my mountain property here in Colorado. I guess time will tell on it's continued reliability.
    How has your Tacoma treated you? I also own a Lexus ES300. It's a fine fine automobile. There is not any American car that compares with its fit, finish and reputation for reliability.
    Some folk won't admit it but Toyota = QUALITY
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Member Posts: 897
    It's only 4 month old, with 6K miles on it. But it's been nothing but sweetness. And there's no problems with buying it, bought for something like $200 over invoice. The only "problem" it had was that the strip of plastic that holds carpet under it on drivers side was loose on one end. Took it off, found that the screw was not put in place properly, and fixed it. Other than that, no problems. No water leaks, no dash squeaks (two problems that for some reason people say Tacoma has), nothing.
    And seats are comfortable. 1.5 month after purchase I drove to Denver from Austin, TX. No back pain, no pain in legs. I used to have a '93 Blazer S10, and after 4-5 hours in it my legs would go numb below the knees, seat was cutting off circulation (even though it seemed more comfortable at the time). Interior is nice, functional and comfortable.
    Overall, everything I wanted (and I got exactly everything I wanted from the dealer).
  • plutoniousplutonious Member Posts: 799
    magazines don't have long term tests on vehicles because of costs, but right here at Edmunds such tests exist. Go ahead and read 'em and draw your own conclusions. It's uncanny how the long-term tests seem to agree with Consumer Reports on vehicle quality and reliability. For the record, I agree with what many say about Consumer Reports' recommendations being worthless. Heck, they didn't like my Tacoma 4x4 basically because it rode too rough for them. But the magazine is still a good source for reliability information and they admitted the Tacoma is a reliable workhorse.

    A lot of people keep complaining how the Tundra isn't "full-size." Many Silverados and F-150s are actually smaller than the Tundra because of how they are configured (short-box, single cab, step-side, etc.). I don't see all the Ford and Chevy boys admitting these trucks aren't full-size. Brand loyalty at work. Whatever...

    At least when somebody buys a Tundra, they can see first hand its size and smallish rear-cab and make a conclusion as to whether the truck will fit their needs. How many people have bought newer Chevy trucks thinking they were "heavy-duty" only to find their $30K+ new truck plagued with bad transmissions and knocking engines - so bad they're engaged in bitter disputes with GMC and the BBB seeking refunds and lemon-law benefits? At least with the Tundra, you know what you're getting into. With the Chevy, it's roll the dice and take your chances.

    Don't get me wrong - I think Chevy USED to make a good truck. But the new stuff is garbage with a capital "G."

    I've said it before - the reason why everybody is so hot and bothered about the Tundra is because it represents Toyota's entry into the truck market. And we all know what happened when Toyota entered the sedan/compact car market...it dominated.
  • jcmdiejcmdie Member Posts: 594
    Bama, I'll take the numbers from pickuptruck.com over your opinion any day. Ryan's numbers are right on. Even butt ugly can out sell inadequate. Even a reliable inadequate one.
  • jcmdiejcmdie Member Posts: 594
    What problem are you referring to?
  • kg11kg11 Member Posts: 530
    The undisputed king of the dwarves,Toymota,had a daughter ,Blundra.She was much larger than the rest of the dwarves and she knew it but inside she was still a dwarf.She looked at the larger races and thought she was more like them.Then she noticed she was more like the males than the females and she started to cry.Her loving father Toymota asked why and she said "everyone who looks like me can work very hard and can pee standing up".Toymota wanted his daughter to be happy ,but he knew he couldnt make her what she was not,so he devised a plan.He told her that he had an elf put some magic into her tiny 8.4 inch pumpkin and now she could do all the things the men could do.So she tried to do everything like a man ,but she failed.No-one would ever respect her father if they knew he lied so she pretended to believe.She knew she needed to convince others and soon in a place in the south she found a gulible troll who quickly fell in love with her.He didn't need her to work like a man and didn't care what happened when she tried to pee standing.They were married and she's happy to be loved .The troll ,knowing Blundra couldn't work ,got a job right here insulting Chevy and Ford owners.

    BY-BY

    kip
  • kg11kg11 Member Posts: 530
    You hit the nail right on the head with that one.
    kip
  • bamatundrabamatundra Member Posts: 1,583
    Ava-lose-my-lunch Feb sales - 8,805 (all built in Mexico)

    Tundra Feb sales -9,468 (all built in the good 'ol US of A!)

    Ava-lose-my-lunch sales 1/1/02 to 03/09/02 - 21,227 (all built in Mexico)

    Tundra sales 1/1/02 to 03/09/02-
    22,677 (all built in the good 'ol US of A!)

    Chev is offering $2000 rebates and is STILL sucking wind. (Maybe they should offer free salsa with their Mexican truck)

    Tundra sales are up 12.5% from last year - not too shabby!
  • kg11kg11 Member Posts: 530
    And where's this mythical offspring of Blundra's?Does she have dwarf(Taco )parts too?Does her 8.4 inch diff allow her to tow 15k?If so ,that IS magic.
    kg11
  • kg11kg11 Member Posts: 530
    That you can give that user name and profile and I get deleted for talking about it here?
    Bama why do you call me a "Chevy guy"when you know I've owned 6 Toyotas and ONE GMC with a lemon law buy back claim against it?If you read quad's post #29 you'll understand why there aren't more Tundras on the road.I like MANY "big three" owners wish Toyota would get in the game and offer some REAL competition.
    kip
  • ndahi12ndahi12 Member Posts: 235
    I tried to find the numbers that Ryan quotes on the Autosite web site BUT COULD NOT FIND ANY. I only found the January numbers. I have no idea where the numbers that pickuptruck.com posted come from. The source of the Autosite numbers is the Automotive info center and they are for January

    Tundra
    Jan 2001 6199
    Jan 2002 6958 12.2% increase

    Rado & CK
    Jan 2001 47663
    Jan 2002 51184 7.4% increase

    F Series
    Jan 2001 59041
    Jan 2002 55370 6.2% decrease

    Ram
    Jan 2001 25178
    Jan 2002 26019 3.3% increase

    As you can see these numbers dispute the ones on pickuptruck.com. They are for January though. The numbers for February are not up on the Autosite page.
  • eagle63eagle63 Member Posts: 599
    I've got a serious question here: Let's just pretend that Toyota was an American auto company, based in Cleveland. And instead of "Toyota," it had a tough, blue-collar name like: "Dirk Motor Company." Would you all still hold the same animosity towards it's vehicles? (assuming they are exactly the same as they are now) I guess what I'm getting at is, do you really dislike the vehicles, or at some level are you just angry because it's a foreign company?
    I'm not trying to start a war or anything, and I sure as hell don't want to start a debate about global economics or what really constitutes an American company anymore. But I do wonder sometimes if there's other reasons beyond a truck simply "not being full sized."
  • tomh12tomh12 Member Posts: 240
    I don't object to Toyota just because they are a Japaneese company. I object because they say they are offering a "full size 1/2 ton pick-up, and instead, we get the 7/8 size Tundra. Fine for what it is, but not up to the use that big 3 full size pick-ups are CAPABLE of. If you didn't have a bunch of trolls wandering around trying to convince people how their Tundra's can out perform the true 1/2 tons, you wouldn't have so much verbal fireworks. I respect toyota for it's quality. But,never have I been behind the wheel of a Toyota SUV or pick-up and felt there was even an ADEQUATE amount of power. I have always believed that part of the reason they last so long is because they are UNDERPOWERED, or perhaps marginally powered. I owned a '76 Toyota Landcruiser station wagon 4WD. TOUGH...but the 6 cylinder was just like a '53 Cevy. I have gone with my wife to BUY a 4runner or a landcruiser on two different occasions since '94. Both times, we test drove them and said "not enough power for the weight of the vehicle." Tundra is smooth, but not able to be optioned out to do heavy work. Great for the grocery store or even a trip off road, but don't be tryin' to work 'em now!
    Tom
  • bamatundrabamatundra Member Posts: 1,583
    I see that people that brag about how huge their trucks are do this because they feel inadequate in other ways. This seems endemic to Chev owners who like to brag about their big back seats. I think that they really wanted minivans. I guess it pertains to GMC owners also.

    Your post #49 reads like something a 12yr old would write. I'm trying to figure out whether you really are 12 or just acting like it.
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