Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

socalawd · October 2005

Carsdirect and Edmunds TMV do not always show the best prices.

This is true got my EX-L with RES for 700.00 less than Cars direct and 1K less than TMV.

aaron_t · October 2005

We both got what we wanted at acceptable prices. Agreed. You're not gruff!

I got the van 1.5 weeks before my first child was born and will probably have the next vehicle before the next child. I've purchased more expensive vehicles equipped exactly how I'd like. They were nice, but high mileage over crappy roads(24k/yr) accelerated repairs. So, I'm happy with small payments short term. There have been two vehicles I owned that I thought would last 10yrs of my driving. One, a 13mpg pickup. The other, a sport sedan that cost too much in suspension/wheels/tires to justify. I've lost some status, but I'm happier.

vango05 · October 2005

Had a 2002 T&C that I just traded with 64,000 miles. Luckily, I purchased and extended warranty at 37,000 miles. The last year I had it, I seemed to have a problem per month. Steering linkage, power steering pump, ABS sensor, Washer pump, electrical warnings that no one could find the cause for. I decided to trade out. Overall, Honda & Toyota are tops for quality and engineering. Word from inside Chrysler was that up to about 2000-2001, the "good ole boys" were running the business into the ground. Crappy cheap parts failed early and often, and were replaced with more crappy parts. Daimler found out, and began cleaning house. Quality is better, but not quite there yet. I do have to give Chrysler top honors for design innovation. Who else could make a station wagon sexy?
Honda is voted #1, that's why it's not as discounted. I have heard a few people got bad transmissions, but all that I saw said Honda replaced or repaired them. Toyota is a very close second. In the SE of PA, Siennas seemed easier to "deal" on and actually get what I wanted. The one salesman sold both, but recommended the Sienna for ride comfort, discount and availability. Honda offered larger but fewer "pkgs" but Toyota gives you more choices. I don't especially like leather seats and thought the carousel storage in the floor a bit much in the Honda. With pkg#5 on the LE, my Sienna was comparable to the ODY EX, with Stability and Traction Control. 180 HP is pretty good in the T&C, but getting 230 and 255HP with the same mileage is amazing, not to mention reassuring when pulling into turnpike traffic. The AT shifted very smoothly compared to the T&C. While the Dodge and Chrysler, Ford and Chevy may be priced cheap now, three years from now you will get much more back for resale or trade with Toyota & Honda. I'm 56 and my experience has been the [non-permissible content removed] make a hell of a good vehicle, even when they are built in the US!

socalawd · October 2005

I'd use Edmunds and carsdirect as a "stake in the ground" but nothing more.

They are a average price. It's a good price you should never pay more than TMV.
That said the TCO(5 year true cost to own) is 3 grand more for the SXT than the Ody EX. They use TMV as the cash price! It's abour a 2 grand difference!

minicoopercat · October 2005

I'm currently in the market for a new minivan and the Ody and T&C are my top choices. I love the conveniences & price offered by the T&C, but being passionate about cars, I prefer the performance and perceived quality of the Ody. There are some interesting and very passionate discussions here and I've found most the info useful, but my situation is a little different than most. I'm currently living overseas where I am only able to get about $1K (if that) off of MSRP on the Odyssey, but I can get at least EP on the T&C (if not more). From my calculations, an Ody EX-L with DVD, would cost me at least $3-5K more than a similarly equipped T&C Touring, especially with the new Signature series being offered. Is this difference in cost similar to what most of you are weighing when deciding between the two? After a few years, is the Honda going to be worth that much more than the T&C?

macakava · October 2005

http://money.cnn.com/popups/2005/autos/oct_cars/frameset_cnn.exclude.html

dustyk · October 2005

Having the highest prices used at close is not necessarily the definition of "resale value." Since Odys sell for higher prices I would expect them to be worth more at trade-in. However, that does not mean retained valve is better than something else. In addition, higher retained values in one part of the country does not mean that will be universal. And since used vehicle buyers are generally more price conscious, higher used prices usually mean the metal moves a lot slower off the lot.

Assuming a Caravan and an Ody being equal in age, mileage, and equipment, what is the actual delta between the two at trade in actual dollars and what was the cost to the original purchaser?

The answer to that determines the real "resale value."

Dusty

dustyk · October 2005

"Word from inside Chrysler was that up to about 2000-2001, the "good ole boys" were running the business into the ground. Crappy cheap parts failed early and often, and were replaced with more crappy parts. Daimler found out, and began cleaning house. Quality is better, but not quite there yet."

Throttle position, camshaft position, crankshaft position, speed, and distance sensors have been the most common problem generators for '98-'02 mini-vans, along with Central Timer Modules that had a high mortality rate. For some reason batteries that are on the threshold of failure (but not yet failed) often cause very, very strange things with the vehicle electronics on Chryslers and is quite often misdiagnosed. In some of those same years power window regulator chains and motors had a high failure rate. Overall Chrysler's supplier problems have been with their electronic component vendors. That's what they get for selling Huntsville to General Motors!

Recent build years appear to have resolved these problems, however.

Dusty

dennisctc · October 2005

Overall Chrysler's supplier problems have been with their electronic component vendors.

I resemble ...opps, resent that remark!!! I sold electronic components to DCX in the late 90s, and speaking for Tyco Automotive (who's CEO is now in jail for 25 years), we have an excellent record. We build the PDCs (power distribution centers/fuse boxes) for them, have since the 1996 MY......without any major problems. We also supply airbag connectors, the connections for the powertrain modules, seat sensors, battery terminals etc...

I'm almost positive Chrysler Huntsville was sold to Siemens, not GM though.

dennisctc · October 2005

Daimler found out, and began cleaning house.

Speaking from experience here, from my company's perspective, when Daimler took over Chrysler, Daimler called a meeting to talk about connector strategy. Chrysler was open to using almost any connectors or connector supplier if cost was right - period. My DCX engineers thought this meeting would be an open discussion of USCar and overall connector strategy for the new DCX. It wasn't!!!

Chrysler engineers were told point blank - you WILL use these terminal sizes, and you WILL use our approved suppliers - period. They didn't care about USCar or what Chrysler engineers were doing. You do it our way and start now. I think this was great (especially since my company was one of the approved suppliers).

A good example.....DCX uses one .64mm connector system now. GM uses at least 5 on the CTS!! Imagine yourself a mechanic at a Caddy dealership needing to splice in some terminals...are you sure you're using right terminal (they are hard to differentiate!!), are you using the right crimp tool? are you using the right gage terminal for the wire!!!!!

dennisctc · October 2005

The answer to that determines the real "resale value."

I think resale is a wash!!! My theory....if you paid $5k-10k less for a domestic and invested it over the course of a car loan, then add it to your next purpose etc...It's break even. Also consider the added interest by paying more....

hansienna · October 2005

DC minivans will have saved you that $10,000 difference you saved when you purchased the 2005 GC SXT instead of the 2005 Odd EX.

However, if a person MUST have the most high performance minivan, there is no further discussion. Buy the Odyssey if you can't also afford a Chrysler 300C or Charger R/T that each have a hemi 5.7L V8 or a more expensive, exotic, non-family friendly vehicle.
Meanwhile, I continue to enjoy my 2002 T&C LX with the lowly 3.3L V6 that has a long time average of 22.2 MPG for all driving....and one long round trip 28.2 MPG. Has any 1999-2006 Odyssey delivered this mileage? :confuse:

socalawd · October 2005

Assuming a Caravan and an Ody being equal in age, mileage, and equipment, what is the actual delta between the two at trade in actual dollars and what was the cost to the original purchaser?

The answer to that determines the real "resale value."

Here is the TCO for GC SXT vs honda EX.

#compare">link title
They say after 5 years of 15K miles the SXt would be worth $8891.00 and the EX is worth 12,919. But the overall 5 year cost of the SXT is 45,837 and the Ex is 42,609.00 These are based on TMV values so the SXT is EP+ and the EX is about the average(you could do better). Most people buy a car this way they finance and then trade in at the end. Maybe someones getting a 10K better deal but not often more like 2-3K. Invest that for 5 years at 4% and then see if you get close to the 4100.00 dollars differance for resale. I was amazed when I went from a Dodge Caravan SE and put the Ody on my insurance and it only went up $50.00 a year. I too think its about a wash so tell yourself do you want a SXT or a EX. If you finance and plan to sell in 5 years the TCO is better on the EX. Oh I think I put my hand in the hornets nest LOL.

Cheers,
TOM

socalawd · October 2005

DC minivans will have saved you that $10,000 difference you saved when you purchased the 2005 GC SXT instead of the 2005 Odd EX.

I've been looking at the paers and the TEASER ADS(1 at this price)for the SXTare only 3.5 grand less than the Honda EX TMV. Hans you looked for a good price on a Dodge and couldn't find one. Why are you propagating the 10K for everyone(Oh that's my take on the Honda Safety for everyone slogan) Myth??

Meanwhile, I continue to enjoy my 2002 T&C LX with the lowly 3.3L V6 that has a long time average of 22.2 MPG for all driving....and one long round trip 28.2 MPG. Has any 1999-2006 Odyssey delivered this mileage?

Hans don't ever sell that van I get about 27 hwy. More like 17-18city. I'm about 21.5 overall. My 2001 base Caravan got 17-19 it also had the 3.3L. You got a real gem there!! Drive that baby into the ground than 2 years after that!!!

dustyk · October 2005

Dennis,

I wasn't trying to cast aspersions on your company, or you. I was merely stating some facts. Specifically I've never seen or heard of a quality issue with the PDCs or the junction boxes. And if your company makes the new style water tight connectors, they're doing a good job, especially at the shift solenoids on the transmission.

But the various sensors (TRW, Valeo, Siemens, AEC, Omix-Ada) have been a problem as I mentioned in my earlier post. Nippon-Denso power window regulators and motors were also pretty punky for a while, although their alternators and starter motors have always been very good. Central Timer Modules have been a problem off and on, but the '97-'98s, '02-'03s have been more so a problem.

As to the previously Chrysler-owned Huntsville Electronics Division, which at one time was the largest single electronics manufacturing site in North America, I thought was purchased by General Motors. My company use to buy printed circuit boards from Chrysler in the '80s and when Huntsville was offered for sale I know GM was extremely interested and I thought bought them. They at least bid on the facility, but in all honesty I do not know for sure who purchased them. As far as I know the PCMs, TCMs, TCCMs, etc, are still made there.

Best regards,
Dusty

hansienna · October 2005

EXCELLENT. You are a responsible driver and another proof that EPA ratings are correct for a good driver.

I doubt that my son drives his 01 Ody EX as reasonably as you drive your Ody.
One daughter has a 99 GC SE w/ 3.3L V6 that had an overall average of 23.4 MPG the last time I was informed. However, the 02 T&C and GC clone weigh a few hundred pounds more than the 99's.

dustyk · October 2005

Of course, the issue wasn't about total cost to own, but retained value. The actual cost to own is not very predictable since different vehicles will experience different maintenance and repair histories, as well as different drivers will realize different fuel consumption. In addition, finance and insurance rates vary enough to make assumptions about TCO using "average" pretty soft, enough so that the 57 cents to 61 cents per mile assumed costs could easily be much different.

The equation that is not readily available is the actual cost to the purchaser when new. In the case of the Caravan, and its been mentioned here as a negative in the past, is that they are more deeply discounted than an Ody. And despite claims otherwise, buying an Ody around here at invoice at least is a complete myth. There is no incentive to discount a vehicle that has so much desirability, and in such "high demand."

So the true "resale value" is the difference in the established market value used against the price that was actually paid when new.

I ran a comparison of the Honda versus the Dodge on Kelly Blue Book using my zip code. The problem I found was developing a direct comparison between the two makes with models containing the same equipment. I believe I came close (2005 Honda EX/2005 Dodge SXT). According to Kelly the Honda had an original list of $28,745 with an average actual cost out at 27,595 (a difference of $1150). The Dodge had a list of $27,725 and a average cost out at 25,426 (a difference of $2299).

Current trade in prices at 12,000 miles and in excellent condition were $21,500 for the Honda (a difference of $6095 from average cost out) and $16,050 for the Dodge (a difference of $9376). That difference between the Dodge and the Honda is $3281 in Honda's favor, but the Dodge had an average cost out of $2169 less than the Honda.

In this scenario the true difference in retained valve is $1112 in Honda's favor. To a one, two, or three year owner that might be a difference worth considering. To a five, six or more year owner, its probably irrelevant.

Dusty

socalawd · October 2005

One daughter has a 99 GC SE w/ 3.3L V6 that had an overall average of 23.4 MPG the last time I was informed. However, the 02 T&C and GC clone weigh a few hundred pounds more than the 99's.

Hate to say it but my wife does most of the driving. I just pay the bills and get her to put the mileage on the reciept. I drive on the weekends/trips. I probably bring the average down. We also id alot of trips this summer now that the kids are back in school the mileage will go down. I'm hopeing for 20 during the school year.

socalawd · October 2005

In this scenario the true difference in retained valve is $1112 in Honda's favor. To a one, two, or three year owner that might be a difference worth considering. To a five, six or more year owner, its probably irrelevant

If ya keep it 10 years drive it 15K+/per year, resale isn't worth anything. but, most people can't go past there last payment before they want NEW! It is hard to know for sure about the what your cost will the TCO is very generic(average/estimate).

dennisctc · October 2005

I've been looking at the paers and the TEASER ADS(1 at this price)for the SXTare only 3.5 grand less than the Honda EX TMV. Hans you looked for a good price on a Dodge and couldn't find one. Why are you propagating the 10K for everyone(Oh that's my take on the Honda Safety for everyone slogan) Myth??

Putting words in my mouth?? I said $5k-10k range, NOT $10k for everyone. There's now been a numbers of DCX buyers, not just me, saying that's very possible.

I still see people on here paying sticker for an Oddy, or grateful for $500 off MSRP.....If you live in an area where the Honda dealers "coordinate" their pricing, god help you! That seemed to be the case in Detroit. Of course that same goes for BMW here....ALL the BMW dealerships in MI are owned by one family and have the same "take it or leave it" attitude.

I'd say 25mpg for any Minivan is easily doable. My last camping trip to Holland/Saugatuck Michigan netted 27mpg just sight seeing without the camper in tow. (once I set up camp).

dustyk · October 2005

Well, I don't think "most" people desire new before the last payment. The demographics probably find that more true for younger buyers in general, but not necessarily for mini-vans. By their nature mini-vans are purchased for more utilitarian reasons and in the past have had one of the longest durations of service with their owners. I'm not sure exactly, but I want to say the average is (was) around five years or more. That's an average, meaning there are others going much further. The average life of a car for one owner is 37 months.

In my experience friends and acquaintances are going seven to eight years on their mini-vans. That's at least true for Caravans, T&Cs, and Windstars. Maybe Honda and Toyota buyers opt out sooner.

Dusty

badgerfan · October 2005

I guess we are way out on the curve, as we are still driving our 1996 Caravan and it still looks and runs nearly like new. We actually bought it as a new leftover in March 1997, so we are nearing 9 years of owneship. At about 10k miles a year, we are probably under the average miles per year as well. A vehicle that holds its value means nothing to me, as once it gets up to ten years old or more, the shape it is in is much more important than the make, and none of them will bring much more than $2k or so on a private sale.

As well as our '96 is holding up, we may push it up to 12-15 years of ownership this time around. Obviously we are not ones who have to have the latest and greatest.

Even if the new cost advantage of the DC van over the Ody is only $2k, that $2k, if I assume it gained 5% a year compounded, leaves me with $3591 in the bank after ten years.

socalawd · October 2005

I guess we are way out on the curve, as we are still driving our 1996 Caravan and it still looks and runs nearly like new. We actually bought it as a new leftover in March 1997, so we are nearing 9 years of owneship. At about 10k miles a year, we are probably under the average miles per year as well. A vehicle that holds its value means nothing to me, as once it gets up to ten years old or more, the shape it is in is much more important than the make, and none of them will bring much more than $2k or so on a private sale.

As well as our '96 is holding up, we may push it up to 12-15 years of ownership this time around. Obviously we are not ones who have to have the latest and greatest.

Even if the new cost advantage of the DC van over the Ody is only $2k, that $2k, if I assume it gained 5% a year compounded, leaves me with $3591 in the bank after ten years.

If you keep it 10 years sure you could put some money in the bank. Most people finance and as said earlier keep a car around 3 years. There are also other cost insurance, finaning(for most), gas(milage), repairs. You also pay interest for you 5%(which is alot but rates are coming up)But one of the most importatant thing to me is can you afford it and are you happy with your choice. Then you'll drive it a long time. The Odyssey just had the features I wanted at a price I found acceptable, for a car I'll probably keep 10+ years.

dustyk · October 2005

Actually, the "resale" situation is just the reverse of what Honda advocates are saying because (using the average price paid figure from Kelly) you have to spend $2169 more for the Honda in order to realize a $1112 advantage in resale over the Dodge.

Regards,
Dusty

dennisctc · October 2005

The fact that people don't post in the DCX forums?

People DO post on DCX forum, mostly in regards to older models and issues. Occasionally, someone has major issues with their newer DCX.

Again, you take one portion of a debate, ignoring what brought it up.....I can't count the times I've seen comments like "I bought a Honda so I don't have to be at the dealer all the time" or "DCXs fall apart after 50k miles", or this latest "inferior" comment.

Heck there is a investagation on 2001-2002 DCX vans where 35,000 vans had warrenty work flickering/dimming and shuting off headlights.

You constantly find one of a kind problems and then push them as normal. Who's doing what???? BTW - I have seen people bring this up on DCX forum.

I called you out because not long ago you denied a condescending attitude.....this was classic:

I will say that owners of domestic vehicles seem to be more content with the problems they have with their cars because that's why they purchased them in the first place; so why would they post complaints to issues they're having when they're content with an inferior product? Oxymoronic don't you think?

Thank you very very much, but i'll keep my "inferior" Minivan, and the vast $$$$$ I saved over a Honda, with less recalls and problems!!

socalawd · October 2005

Again, you take one portion of a debate, ignoring what brought it up.....I can't count the times I've seen comments like "I bought a Honda so I don't have to be at the dealer all the time" or "DCXs fall apart after 50k miles", or this latest "inferior" comment.

I have no idea what your talking about I'm still looking for the DCX vans fall apart at 50K miles post. I probably didn't read back that far in the post and if so I'm very sorry. People forever think that the choices they made are superior. I bought a good van that had all the features I wanted and have had no problems with it and you feel the same way.

will say that owners of domestic vehicles seem to be more content with the problems they have with their cars because that's why they purchased them in the first place; so why would they post complaints to issues they're having when they're content with an inferior product? Oxymoronic don't you think?

Thank you very very much, but i'll keep my "inferior" Minivan, and the vast $$$$$ I saved over a Honda, with less recalls and problems!!

Now you know that this is not a quote by me! And you should keep your van the longer the better. But you never know your van could turn out to be a lemon. :lemon: As could mine! Of course if it did I really doubt you would tell us.

dennisctc · October 2005

But you never know your van could turn out to be a lemon. As could mine! Of course if it did I really doubt you would tell us.

No basis for this comment, just an opinion!!! BTW - I find it hard to believe you purchased an early Ody, yet weren't effected by any of the recalls????? Even the 85,000 one??? Hmmmmm

socalawd · October 2005

No basis for this comment, just an opinion!!! BTW - I find it hard to believe you purchased an early Ody, yet weren't effected by any of the recalls????? Even the 85,000 one??? Hmmmmm

Built in end of may 2005. I know the first year is usually worse than the next ones (CR's done a few articles)but I was ready and I waited until later in the year.

socalawd · October 2005

No basis for this comment, just an opinion!!! BTW - I find it hard to believe you purchased an early Ody, yet weren't effected by any of the recalls????? Even the 85,000 one??? Hmmmmm

Built in end of may 2005. I know the first year is usually worse than the next ones (CR's done a few articles)but I was ready and I waited until later in the year.

Here are the build dates for the recall 07/05/2004-03/07/05

link title

Here's the link to my buying experience! As usually I verified my story. But I'm sure just like other things I've shown before, I'll get nothing but I doubt it and I'm not buying it comments.

hansienna · October 2005

Odyssey automatic transmission has replaced the early DC 4 speed "Ultra-Drive" automatic as the most likely to fail. DC transmission problems have not been very common since the mid 1990's.

Even with all the problems with the Odyssey automatic transmission, I would not worry about one if I liked the Odyssey better than the Grand Caravan or Sienna. Honda seems willing to fix the transmissions unlike Chrysler was when the 4 speed "Ultra-Drive" initially had many failures.

dustyk · October 2005

Over the years I've been around I think Chrysler was always better about standing behind their product compared to Ford and GM. Of course, like the other two native American car companies they didn't feel as obligated as Toyota or Nissan. In recent years I think the reverse is true.

The early A-604s (aka "Ultra-Drive") had two rather debilitating issues. A piston bore that was machined improperly and premature governor seal failures. These issues have been resolved a long, long time ago, soon after the transmission was first introduced. I think what happened was that this transmission was overwhelmed with high infant mortality replacements at a rate that could not be supplied by the factory. After the first year or so this problem disappeared. The early A-604s could only be successfully repaired by replacing the entire transmission case.

After that the miracle of the world's first fully electronic and fully adaptive transmission became the victim of many people who didn't understand it or lacked the correct tools to properly diagnose problems. Many...and I mean many...A-604s were and continue to be unnecessarily "rebuilt" or replaced because of incorrect diagnosis. Many independent transmission repair places are biased to this day against Chrysler for introducing a transmission that requires special electronic diagnostic tools.

Regards,
Dusty

dennisctc · October 2005

I'll get nothing but I doubt it and I'm not buying it comments.

How bout something to verify your build date is "end of may"???

socalawd · October 2005

Odyssey automatic transmission has replaced the early DC 4 speed "Ultra-Drive" automatic as the most likely to fail. DC transmission problems have not been very common since the mid 1990's.
Even with all the problems with the Odyssey automatic transmission, I would not worry about one if I liked the Odyssey better than the Grand Caravan or Sienna. Honda seems willing to fix the transmissions unlike Chrysler was when the 4 speed "Ultra-Drive" initially had many failures

So I'm sure you have some info of failure percentage, or warranty claims per 1000 to back up this statement??? Or is it another there's a guy who needs a tranmission on the forum therefore all odyssey's need transmissions?

link title

here's a link to a company that does total quality for cars and other things they have the Odyssey as the overall quaility winner.

JD powers 90 day see mechanicial quaility these deal with transmission engine and braking. The DCX and Odyssey score the same DCX scores better in overall.

But in overall appeal the Dodge gets 2 and the Odyssey gets 5. And this is how owners feel about there cars!!

socalawd · October 2005

How bout something to verify your build date is "end of may"???

Posting a post to a remark i made about a car coming in for delivery on May 27th in June Isn't enough. The odyssey has like a 20 day supply at any given time what about that. In Ca, it's probably even less. Do you believe??Of course not because That makes me right again!! I would like to give you more info but you take everyone elses info as real and mine as fake. I think I'll post the van BOD. Then you'll say you found some guy to let me take the pic. Do you really think a Ody EXLw/DVD sat at the dealer for seven weeks. You really do entertain me!!

thegraduate · October 2005

I was going to make a most about how noone knows TRUTHFULLY how each other's buying experience went. Everyone could be coming up with a delightful story to better the next guy. We could also be downing our own cars saying how inferior they are without the opposing "team" ever mentioning inferiority. (Perhaps it is an inferirority complex?)

I'm afraid I have to agree with the, as dennisctc referred to him, the driver of the "superior" car (his words, not mine!) on this one. Odysseys with leather and VCM are zooming off the lots here in central Bama, leaving only an LX, four EX cloth, one EX-L NAV, and one touring on the lot of the local dealer nearest us.

dustyk · October 2005

"So I'm sure you have some info of failure percentage, or warranty claims per 1000 to back up this statement??? Or is it another there's a guy who needs a transmission on the forum therefore all odyssey's need transmissions? "

I'm sure there isn't any readily specific data on transmission "failures," how ever that's defined. But Honda deists are still in complete denial if they think that Honda automatics are as robust as their own superiority. Odyssey transmissions in particular. They are increasingly becoming more and more frequently observed at transmission repair establishments and Chrysler mini-vans much less. What the average rate is I don't believe anybody knows. But oddly, Elliot Spitzer, the attorney general of the State of New York has recently taken an interest.

Dusty

dennisctc · October 2005

If DCX vans were having as many postings on trannys, poor mileage, brake wear, pulling, recalls, AC issues, glove box alignment, etc....then there'd be major problems. But with Odys, it just envious DCX owners exaggerating the problems!!

dennisctc · October 2005

link title

here's a link to a company that does total quality for cars and other things they have the Odyssey as the overall quaility winner.

I went to this link but from what I can see, it's sorely lacking in data to really pick a winner. There's no data for "problem impact measure" and "customer delight index". How you can pick a winner with no data is beyond me???

What they do post is touchy feely stuff like.....

Satisfaction with complete ownership experience
Perception of quality
Emotional attachment to vehicle

Delight with the deal
Belief in getting a smart buy
Likelihood to repurchase, based on value

This is where the Ody "won". I'd say it's too early to call.

socalawd · October 2005

I'm sure there isn't any readily specific data on transmission "failures," how ever that's defined. But Honda deists are still in complete denial if they think that Honda automatics are as robust as their own superiority. Odyssey transmissions in particular. They are increasingly becoming more and more frequently observed at transmission repair establishments and Chrysler mini-vans much less. What the average rate is I don't believe anybody knows. But oddly, Elliot Spitzer, the attorney general of the State of New York has recently taken an interest.

Dusty

Ok Dusky,

Then you've got data for this too right?? Then tell me about your DCX van or Honda Van?? I think I remember you saying you had niether!! Then why would this be of importance to you?? I am not superior to anyone!! We are all the same the car you drive dosen't make you the person you are, if you think that is the judgement of man you have truely missed the mark!! I would love to hear what Elliot Spitzer has to say about Honda transmissions? As Dennis says lets see some facts so I can tell you I don't believe them!! Since Honda has backed there transmissions to 100,000 miles I wonder how many would end up in trany shops? Of course it's always fun to speculate! Then you don't really need to know anything!

thegraduate · October 2005

Seems to me that "Satisfaction with total ownership experience" is a fair way of comparing the Overall, hmm, whats a good word....satisfaction with a car. This IS after all what we are supposed to be discussing, not bashing each other's cars.

Why does this place have to be so darned hostal!?

It makes me tired just reading it, which is why i've been sticking to the sedan forums lately.

Claires · October 2005

This discussion seems to be degenerating into flames again, and could be driving potential participants away. Owner satisfaction seems to be the bottom line, since reports, articles, and negative comments don't seem to be swaying either camp into the other. Since those here seem to be pretty satisfied with their vehicles, regardless of whether they've chosen the Odyssey or a Dodge/Chrysler, why not talk about the features that "sold" you?

dennisctc · October 2005

Seems to me that "Satisfaction with total ownership experience" is a fair way of comparing the Overall, hmm, whats a good word....satisfaction with a car. This IS after all what we are supposed to be discussing, not bashing each other's cars.

We were discussing overall winner for quality per socalawd's posting. The link he provided chooses Honda Ody, yet they have no actual data to back any of this up. They use words like "perception", "emotional attachment", "delight with deal", "belief in getting a smart buy". These things mean so many different things to each one of us. When it comes to truly measureable items they have no data for their other areas on the link.

thegraduate · October 2005

Satisfaction is a perception, yes, but if you drove the top rated car in the world, but couldn't stand the feeling of the steering wheel, would you be very "satisfied"? No, you want everything to work as advertised in order to be satisfied. Following the lead of our host, now (whom I agree with)...

The silky engine of the Odyssey has to be one of the most pleasing facts about driving the automobile. Not to mention the 5-speed tranny and thick-rimmed steering wheel!

hansienna · October 2005

Many nice comfort and convenience features such as separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger in a vehicle with MSRP less than $23,000. Complete overhead console with trip computer for only $1400 in Caravan SXT and $ 990 in a SWB T&C.

Sadly, DaimlerChrysler has deleted some of the nice features that are on my 02 T&C LX. However, the Odyssey LX NEVER has had them even as options. :sick:

dustyk · October 2005

Well, you've asked me the question before, and I told you.

But then...you didn't believe them then so I don't think you'd believe them now.

Dusty

dennisctc · October 2005

The silky engine of the Odyssey has to be one of the most pleasing facts about driving the automobile. Not to mention the 5-speed tranny and thick-rimmed steering wheel!

Claires....I think we need to be politically correct here. Calling this "Honda VS Dodge" is too mean spirted, emotionally charged and divisive. We need something more like "I love my minivan", where we can gather to heep praise on our Minivans like Graduate wants. Anything with a "VS" in it's title should be eliminated because spirited debate alienates some Edmunds posters. Could you please check with management, and have some of these hostile catagories eliminated?

Also, while you're at it, could you check and see when Edmunds might update their DCX area with perhaps a new review, since the last one goes back to 2001.

I'll join in.....

I love my Dodge...I saved $10k over "competitive" minivans, get excellent gas mileage, better warranty, fabulous seating options, very smooth, quiet ride, lots of torque with a nice exhaust note, excellent quality. I have a thick padded steering wheel wrapped with leather. But the bestest part

is the power hatch, especially in the winter when cars get really messy in Michigan... I just push my key button (the key and fob are integrated as one like Mercedes does it?), the dirty hatch opens and shuts and I keep my hands spotless.

dennisctc · October 2005

Sadly, DaimlerChrysler has deleted some of the nice features that are on my 02 T&C LX.

I can't believe DCX did away with the front windshield defroster, that kept front blades from icing up!!!!!!! I notice that the Mazda 5 has this feature now!!!

jipster · October 2005

I would agree to a certain extent about the "Versus" part of your post. But, really don't see eliminateing "spirited debate" in these forums....which in my opinion there is nothing wrong with. And makes this site much more enjoyable than the other sites designed solely for one particular make and model of vehicle.The hostility comes from members post...not the title of the forum.

It's when someone goes on, and on, and on ,and on (with sarcastic remarks and inflamatory statements) about the same ole stuff with other select Edmunds members that is the problem. Personally, it doesn't bother me in the least. I find it somewhat amusing on occasion.

But, ya gots to know when to put a lid on it.

fish8 · October 2005

To be completely honest, I scroll past most of the posts from Dennisctc and Socalawd because they usually bicker (sp) about the exact same thing on every post. No one will ever convince the other that their purchase was smarter or better. Everyone purchases based on needs, price, reputation, past experience, etc etc etc.....

Do you guys really think it's fun to beat a dead horse to death? Yeah, I think my purchase of a '05 T&C Touring model was best for my family. Do I think my van is better than an Odyssey? No. Do I think the Odyssey is better than our Chrysler? No!! They are different Vans for different people. Diversity is good.

I also don't think it's bad to have a lively conversation about competing brands, but the constant back and forth is getting VERY OLD!!! :confuse: :sick:

Maybe I'll just skip this thread altogether and let you 2 go back and forth for ever.......enjoy

thegraduate · October 2005

That was my goal when I started a new topic...trying to move the dead, bloody horse out of the way, so at least a new horse can take the brunt! I don't want to eliminate the debate, just debate about something else for a change. Enough with DCX old transmission problems that aren't nearly as serious anymore, and enough with the: "Gasp, you paid HOW MUCH for a VAN?" That was my goal in bringing up a new topic; not to be chastised, but to discuss some other aspect of the vehicles.

Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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