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  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Sounds like he maybe should have gone ES. Road noise complaints in a performance luxury sedan?
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    I found the TL similarly to be noisy and unrefined. The front passenger seat felt like sitting in a pit with no support. On the flip side, the electronics were well designed, worked very well, and the car over all was reliable.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "Road noise complaints in a performance luxury sedan?"

    There is no excuse for road noise. My BMW was not isolated by any means, but it didn't transmit large amounts of road noise. It was not Lexus quiet, but I didn't hear tires slapping against the pavement. I heard the growl of the engine, but there was no wind noise, no creaking, no rattling.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    I always thought the TL attempted more sport than luxury...like a FWD BMW ;)
  • be325be325 Member Posts: 91
    Hi Forum,
    Can anyone tell me why more and more manufacturers (Acura TSX, TL, BMW,and others)are eliminating the protective side moldings? I like them. Is it not cool styling or what?
    Thanks.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    My guess would be cost cutting (which shouldn't be an issue in this segment) or they ruin the lines of the car.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    There is no excuse for road noise. My BMW was not isolated by any means, but it didn't transmit large amounts of road noise. It was not Lexus quiet, but I didn't hear tires slapping against the pavement. I heard the growl of the engine, but there was no wind noise, no creaking, no rattling

    I don't mind any of those. I mind that my e90 was too quiet. It was like driving in a tomb.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    LOL. One mans' tomb is another mans' noise machine.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,724
    Do you have the Bridgestone Turanza EL42 tires? If so, there's some of your noise...

    I have an '05 TL, noise hasn't been too much of an issue for me. But, I'm coming from a couple of Chrysler products, so a Kawasaki may have seemed quieter!

    I'm still enjoying my TL greatly!

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    LOL. N1.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    My'06 has the Conti tires...it's a tomb now but more like a noise machine with the BS EL42's!

    Regardless, the amount of steering feedback is tops in my experience so far.

    Regards,
    OW
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I mind that my e90 was too quiet.

    Why didn't you just open the windows and sunroof? ;)
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    This porridge is too hot...
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Didn't make a difference. The near silent engine and wimpy exhaust weren't improved with the windows up or down. The car's aural qualities are flaccid at best. So goes the path of BMW...
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "The car's aural qualities are flaccid at best"

    Maybe cut-out the muffler and re-route the exhaust pipe to be next to your ear?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    You have to understand, I came from a ZHP and grew up with a gearhead father (my parents have never owned a FWD car..and right now they own 5 cars!). Turning that ZHP on in the morning brought a smile to my face as the thing grumbled to life. The e90...uh it just sort of puttered to life like the bland mid-size car it's become. You could run it to redline and there was no drama, no sound, just a push. Blah.

    Hopefully BMW will come up with a ZHP version by 09/10.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    IMO, you need to be our guide by working with the new M3...this might bring you what you desire! I, for one, would value your feedback tremendously.

    Regards,
    OW
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    lol

    We'll see. From what I've read the new M3 is a step back from the e46 version.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    The near silent engine and wimpy exhaust weren't improved with the windows up or down. The car's aural qualities are flaccid at best.

    Ah, now I get it. It's not "road noise" that you were missing, but the sweet song of the engine / exhaust. Big difference.

    I'm fortunate in that respect. I never would have ordered the $2,400 sport exhaust option in a 911, but since the car I bought had it and it was lost in the $10k discount, I have it. Press that sport button and the car suddenly goes from reservedly quiet to the pleasant gurgle of a real Porsche. Almost back to the level of the 993 air cooled ones.

    And you are right, from what I've heard, the new V8 M3 is going to be a step in the wrong direction, aurally speaking.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Maybe cut-out the muffler and re-route the exhaust pipe to be next to your ear?

    A "friend" in high school did that to his 3.8L (?) Mustang (the hole in the exhaust...that is) to make it sound meaner...still was no 5.0
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I'm currently on a business trip in Michigan and today my client (whose spouse is a GM engineer) says, "Come on; let's go drive a new CTS." I agreed and away we went.

    First off, this car is actually halfway decent looking, and while the family resemblance to the butt ugly first generation CTS is definitely there, it is none-the-less sort of pleasing to look at in an angular sort of way. Then I got in and was surprised to find myself sitting lower than in my old 1985 Dodge Daytona (I was expecting a seating position more in keeping with my 530i), and while the seating position wasn't at all uncomfortable, I just thought it odd given that this car is a mid-sized sedan.

    The rest of the interior seems to be reasonably well thought out, and once again a vast improvement to the Gen 1 car. All in all, a place where I would generally feel comfortable for a long drive. Then there was the back seat, geez can looks be deceiving or what? Visually it looks large back there, however, upon entering I bashed my head on the steeply raked C pillar, and then landed with a thump down low once again. The problem here is that while the seat cushion in low, the floor isn't. I'm only 5' 8" and yet with my feet shoved as far forward under the front seat as I could, my thighs were rising from my hips at an angle of greater than twenty degrees. Said another way, my knees were a good eight inches higher than my hips, not a good recipe for a comfortable place to sit on a long drive.

    Speaking of the drive, the first thing I noticed was that the steering wasn't as heavy as I would have preferred, however, for the general driving public that may not be a bad thing. Personally I prefer the heavy steering of the BMWs; however, I've heard lots of folks complain that many models from BMW and Mercedes-Benz have steering that is too heavy, so for them, the CTS is probably just about perfect.

    Found a nice country road, pulled away from a stop light and nailed it, holding full throttle through the 1-2 gear change and beyond. Geez was that lame. The software that controls this thing actually backed the throttle off so that the tranny could sort of ooze into second gear. Ewwww. FWIW, I mentioned to the spouse my impressions of the gear change issue and was told later in the day that a software fix was already completed and this car just needed to get patched. Personally I could care less about how the automatic performs as I'd rather have a manual, but come on; our minivans have more positive shifting than this thing. I found myself asking out loud how a transmission like that even saw the light of day.

    Back to the drive. If that engine has 300 horsepower, then either that car is seriously heavy, or that engine is seriously anemic. My butt-o-meter tells me that the new CTS with a slushbox tranny is probably no faster than say 0-60 in the low sixes. Ride wise, the car was reasonably compliant and seemed to handle well enough, that said, the tires on this thing seemed to be of the relatively narrow all-season variety, so I'm assuming that this wasn't a sport model (if there even is such a thing), and as such cannot judge it too harshly.

    Long story short, BMW needn't be worried about this car, it seems to be targeted more at the Toyota Avalon / Lexus ES crowd than at the folks who buy 3-Series and 5-Series cars for their driving dynamics.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • be325be325 Member Posts: 91
    I asked this question before but it generated no interest.
    Perhaps this question needs to be placed in another forum .... which?
    Why the protective modling on the doors is disappearing, especially on luxury cars?
    Did customer survey revealed that people didn't like them and preferred smal dents and nicks? Or perhaps the strips ruin styling? I wonder why those 'strips' are missing in new BMWs, Acuras.....?
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I think it is strictly a design issue. You can add side moldings to a TL but, IMO they don't look good with the current styling. Same is true of the BMW. There were side moldings on my 1995 Maxima and, for that particular exterior style, they look pretty good. But with the new designs, they wood look a little too much like an aftermarket add on that contrasted with the "flame" lines of BMW and creases in the TL.

    As far as preferring small dents and nicks, I still got a few of them on my Maxima. You need to be pretty lucky to have the offender's door height match your 1" wide molding.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Shipo, thanks for the excellent insight on the '08 CTS. I believe the only sport model will be the V (MT) variant for now.

    As usual, the engineering seems to have missed the mark, as I expected. I anticipated nothing more. It will be good for some, I would think, because at least the design has improved as you noted. Surprised at the tranny trouble since the slush boxes are usually good.

    Perhaps they will add a CTS-S model down the road! :confuse:

    Regards,
    OW
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,704
    My worries confirmed...so much for reasonable back seat room...Lexus did the same thing (low C pillar) to the new ES...like they needed to make that look 'sporty'
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    As habitat1 said, it's a styling thing. The way cars are designed these days, side molding usually ruins the look and is generally just plain tacky looking. Also, those little strips don't do diddly for preventing you from getting door dings and nicks. So I'd rather not have them and just be more prudent in where I park.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    There is/will be a Sport model with a manual transmission besides the V series.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,504
    to the guy (Rocky?) who claimed for months/years that the '08 CTS was going to be the second coming?

    Now that the car's actually out, he's nowhere to be seen.

    Strange.

    Thanks, Shipo, for the interesting review.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,930
    Most of the reviews I've read still say pretty positive things about it. The 1 negative I know off-hand is, I believe, in the new Automobile. Yet, they drive a slushbox CTS and compared it to a 335 6-speed. Huh?? And, on top of that, the test numbers they use are from different parts of the world on different days! Jigsaw puzzle stories like that just make me sick.

    I'm still going to wait on real reviews of real production cars before jumping to any conclusions, personally.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... And, on top of that, the test numbers they use are from different parts of the world on different days! Jigsaw puzzle stories like that just make me sick.

    Amen, Brother! Preach it! I can't stand it when they use hodge-podge numbers, either. I've seen articles where the reviewer will supposedly be reviewing an updated sport model of a car and post numbers from a non-sport model from TWO YEARS prior!! :surprise: I guess they forget that the people who actually read their rags are enthusiasts, not idiots. :sick: (Most of us, anyway.)
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I use reviews as a very loose guide. The buttometer is the only real guage...and Shipo gave us a good indication of the second generation CTS in his review.

    The rest is for everyone to decide on their own. For me, in Dec. '08, I'll check out the next iteration of the CTS but I highly doubt it will meet what BMW will offer at that time.

    Regards,
    OW
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    Also, those little strips don't do diddly for preventing you from getting door dings and nicks. So I'd rather not have them and just be more prudent in where I park.

    Absolutely 100% correct.
    The side molding do NOTHING for protecting from dings.
    Each and every car's moldings are different in height and the out most edge of somebody's door is very likely to not be at that same exact height dimension.

    These moldings are now called "protective" but are nothing more than styling stick-ons.

    Wanna protect your car from dings...
    Park on a different planet and walk, like I do, or wrap your car in bubble wrap when you need to leave it in a parking lot. :P
  • be325be325 Member Posts: 91
    I agree that being careful (regardless what I drive, I try to give the other guy or lady more room to open the door) is more important than having a plastic strip on the door. However, those little strips saved my butt a few times in my garage when I opened (too wide) the door of the other car.
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    Like I said, they do work, if the offending door meets at that specific spot.
    Sounds like you need one of the inflatable door protectors hanging from the ceiling! :P
    Hanging door protector
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Absolutely 100% correct.
    The side molding do NOTHING for protecting from dings.

    Absolutely 100% eh?

    I had them put on my wife's TL. There are a few nicks in them already and NONE on the door sheet metal. Also my daughter left the back door semi-open before my wife pulled into the garage. Sure enough the door bangs into the garage door jamb. Now there's an even bigger ding in THE MOLDING, and not the door.

    Not sure where your anti-molding slant comes from, but they do serve a useful purpose. And we park on this planet.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    I gotta say the door edge from our Odyssey lines up perfectly with the MOLDING on the TL when parked in our garage.

    Funny huh?
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Now there's an even bigger ding in THE MOLDING, and not the door.

    So, is that supposed to look better? Are you going to have the molding replaced, or just leave it there with the "bigger ding".

    In 3+ years, I've gotten one noticable door ding in my TL and it cost $79 to remove using one of the paintless dent removal services. So far, 0 dings in my 2 year old 911. But when moldings are dinged or scuffed, removing and replacing them can be considerably more expensive.

    Strictly personal taste, but I think given the nice exterior lines of the TL, the moldings are a detraction. Not so on my 1995 Maxima, but the moldings are scuffed and faded over the years to a slightly different color than the metal.
  • be325be325 Member Posts: 91
    I agree with you goodegg.
    It is important that the moldings on two cars are aligned but even if they are not, the door of my car or the door of the other car hits my molding not bare metal. I wonder how cool is it to drive a $40k+ car with dings and dents?
    Again, personal taste and for some, little bit of peace of mind when parking at WalMart .... 600 feet from the entrance.
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    I have a good idea...
    Let's keep echoing the same point over and over again.
    This is fun!

    I have an 06 MDX.
    Parked next to the 2007 TL Loaner with the side trim pieces, the MDX door hits the TL in a place where the trim does NOTHING to protect it.

    Yes, if the trim just happens to land in a place where offending door hits, it offers some protection from dings.
    That is not argued.

    All I'm saying is that the circumstances have to be just right.
    I'd rather park in the far corner of a lot and hope for the best than to stick $500- worth of crap plastic on the side of my car.
  • esfoadesfoad Member Posts: 210
    I've decided that since the car is replaceable, I will park wherever it's convenient and live with it. For example, you can park as far away as possible and then on the drive home a stone hits and cracks the windshield! I know, it's not bodywork and paint, but let's face it, some of us take this too seriously.
    Finally, for those dings that do occur, there are many guys out there who can repair door dings without bodywork. I've had it done and for most dings the results are amazing!
    I agree that adding strips and cladding that did not come with the vehicle can be tacky (excuse the pun ;) ). It's hard to do that without hurting the lines and the design of the automobile.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    On a related note, the "Ding King" that Billy Hays advertises on TV really works! :) It takes a LOT of attempts to get the little dings, but it actually works to make the ding at least 97% disappear.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I wonder how cool is it to drive a $40k+ car with dings and dents? Again, personal taste and for some, little bit of peace of mind when parking at WalMart .... 600 feet from the entrance.

    If you are worried about looking cool in your $40k car, you might want to shop somewhere other than WalMart or park even further than 600 feet from the entrance. From what I've seen, 50% of the vehicles in the lots are pick-ups and most of the rest of the cars look like they've been to hell and back. Not exactly the best place to keep your car from getting dinged, moldings or not.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    True about the looking cool thing but I feel no bumps/scratches/dents are acceptable. My fiancee used to freak out that on Saturday mornings I go out to her A3, clear out her coffee cups and other junk, wipe down the doors, seats, etc. She now understands it's just how I am about cars - keep them spotless. Dirt is hard to avoid but scratches, dings and dents aren't...and if they show up, get them fixed immediately. I can't fathom driving a car with a scratch or dent.
  • billyperks1billyperks1 Member Posts: 151
    I see eye to eye with you on this, I wash my cars every Saturday and I also get rid of my wife's accumulated junk for the week.When I had the TL, it was spotless along side the Accord.Now its only the Accord and our 94 Camry but they are kepy immaculate.The soon to be bought GS350 will be spotless has well.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,724
    I'm with you and BillyP here. Evil wife treats her RX300 like a closet/kitchen table on wheels (yeah, I know. That's how it drives too! Beat you to it!). I clean her car out/wash/wax. She pretends to appreciate it, but doesn't really care whether it's clean or not. The dried/crusty piece of American Cheese and lollipop sticks stuck to the leather that I pull out of it just ruins me for days... :sick:

    As dings/scratches drive me nuts too, I made a bit of a blunder buying a dark blue car. Zaino Z5 helps, but I know they're still there... :cry:

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    I know the forum-visitors to car boards are already a breed apart but do most of us share common characteristics vis-a-vis car maintenance/cleaning/state?
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    Meticulous won't even begin to describe me when it comes to cars. I don't even like for people to put their fingers on the door handles when opening or closing the doors. All you need is just the bottom edge of the handle or, at most, the back side of the handle. No need to slather your greasy finger/handprints all over the handle/door! :mad: Touching the glass will send me into cardiac arrest! I need help, badly! :sick:
  • kominskykominsky Member Posts: 850
    Couldn't care less! If it's nice enough outside to wash the car, it's nice enough to go for a drive instead. :shades:

    I live in farm country... after washing my car, within about 10 miles, it's got a covering of dirt, pollen, manure, bugs, possum innards, and who-knows-what-else covering it... I couldn't keep up with it even if I wanted to.

    My car gets washed every few weeks and gets a quarterly application of Klasse. Vacuum the interior? Huh?! Only when I can bribe my wife to do it for me or if my daughter wants to make a couple of bucks.

    I am, however, pretty picky about the windows and lens covers being clean.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,724
    Ok, we have our first Oscar to several Felixes! ;)

    But I do understand. It is such a chore to clean those "innards" out of the grille and door handles... ;)

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • kominskykominsky Member Posts: 850
    I just re-read your post and have to add...

    I am extremely anal when it comes to maintenance, just not that cleaning stuff.
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