Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

sevenfeet0 · September 2007

The 535i is the same size but is 300 lbs lighter. Shrug.

This is a poor rebuttle. My argument was that the CTS's measurements were within the parameters of the class. Weight was heavy, but still not the worst of the class.

Then what's the hangup on a barge like a 5 or CTS? Seriously you just went on and on about epa space and then come back by saying it's not important to you. So what is important? If space isn't an issue, then why opt for a car of that size?

When did I ever say that EPA space wasn't important to me? Please reread my post. I only used it to show the differentiation in the sizes of the vehicles. Everybody says the CTS is either better suited to compete against the BMW 3-series or is more of a "tweener" car in size. The measurements of this car say otherwise. You could successfully make that argument about the older car, but not this one.

Huh? 5 series and 3 series both have 3.0 300 hp engines compared to the Caddy's 300 hp V6. Strangely, that 300 hp 6 in the 5 and 3 propels both cars with electrifying power. What exactly is wrong with GM's engine development? The weight can't be totally to blame for the slowness of the CTS.

What I meant here was that virtually all the cars in this class (save Acura) offer both a V6 engine (sometimes two) and a V8 before getting to the "hot-rod" department. BMW has the 540i, Mercedes has the E550, and so on and so forth. Also, weight is a big factor in the performance of a vehicle but it's not the only factor. Available torque and where that torque is available on the RPM curve is very important. The CTS DI V6 has less torque than the 535i, and the CTS weighs more than the 535i. So noticing that the CTS is slower than the BMW isn't rocket science. Finally, gear ratios (transmission and final drive) are the third variable in the equation, but that's another discussion.

blueguydotcom · September 2007

Sorry, I understand fully why the %35 and 335 are much faster than the CTS. I just can't comprehend why GM came late to the party and forgot to bring the potato salad.

circlew · September 2007

2003-2006 Cadillac CTS Reliability
Trouble Spots
Consumer Guide's® Auto Editors have scoured repair bulletins and questioned mechanics to search for commonly occurring problems for a particular vehicle. In some cases we also give possible manufacturer-suggested solutions. In many instances these trouble spots are Technical Service Bulletins posted by the manufacturer, however, we have our own expert looking at additional vehicle problems.
Automatic transmission: The transmission may quit working due to fluid loss caused by the output flange nut coming loose. (2003-04)
Battery: The battery may go dead overnight if the brightness lever for the panel lights is set to bright and inadvertently goes far enough to power up the dash integration module, but not far enough to turn on the courtesy lights inside the car. (2003-04)
Electrical problem: The fuel gauge will read empty after filling up if the engine is left running. Trouble codes may also be set which will have to be cleared by the dealer. (2003)
Engine noise: The brackets attached to the catalytic converter may crack or break resulting in a rattle or buzzing noise that seems to come from the engine compartment. (2003-04)
Steering problems: -Service Steering System+ warning light comes on because of failure of the variable effort steering solenoid. (2003)
Water leak: Passenger side carpet gets wet in winter due to ice forming in the HVAC plenum drain hose unless it is modified. (2003)
Consumer Guide® Estimated Repair Costs
This table lists costs of likely repairs for comparison with other vehicles. The dollar amount includes the cost of the part(s) and labor (based on $50 per hour) for the typical repair without extras or add-ons. Like the pricing information, replacement costs can vary widely depending on region. Expect charges at a new-car dealership to be slightly higher.
Item Name Repair Cost
A/C Compressor $750
Alternator $460
Automatic Transmission or Transaxle $3,550
Clutch, Pressure Plate, Bearing $0
Constant Velocity Joints $1,550
Exhaust System $565
Radiator $780
Shocks and/or Struts $2,710
Timing Chain or Belt $750
NHTSA Recall History
2004: Driver+s frontal airbag and/or roof-mounted side-impact airbag in some cars could deploy when ignition key is turned to -on+ position.
2004: Washers for ball stud assemblies on lower control arm of some cars could fracture; separation of control arm from its knuckle will cause a corner of the vehicle to drop, and control arm may contact the wheel, resulting in dragging action and unwanted tendency to turn.

What makes anyone think this will change in 2008??

Regards,
OW

louiswei · September 2007

Well, who said that GM has to beat 335i/535i in acceleration with this new car. Granted that I LOVE straight line performance but I understand that not everyone is like me. There are people who value ride comfort, nice interior, sleek looking exterior (I am not saying CTS has one) and gadgets. The new CTS could by far has the best infotainment system in this class. I know that you don't value those much, for you it's handling and handling only but at the end of the day you are only one buyer out of millions. If people like you consist about 50% of the buying population then I'll start questioning Caddy for not making a 3-series replica.

The new CTS will not be my choice if I am buying a car today. As matter of fact it won't even be the top 3 choices on my list. However, I do give credit when credit is due and I say kudos to GM for providing another alternative for this segment. More power to the buyer.

louiswei · September 2007

1999-2005 BMW 3-Series Reliability
Trouble Spots
Consumer Guide's® Auto Editors have scoured repair bulletins and questioned mechanics to search for commonly occurring problems for a particular vehicle. In some cases we also give possible manufacturer-suggested solutions. In many instances these trouble spots are Technical Service Bulletins posted by the manufacturer, however, we have our own expert looking at additional vehicle problems.
Engine knock: The 3.2-L (S54) engine reportedly suffers connecting-rod-bearing failures at a higher than normal rate, perhaps because some car owners are not using the required 10W-60 synthetic oil which is not readily available in the aftermarket. BMW is extending the warranty to 6 years/100,000 miles, (2001-03)
Exhaust system: BMW issued a voluntary emissions recall to replace faulty crankshaft position sensors. (1999)
Steering noise: Steering wheel buzzes or vibrates due to poor isolation of the power steering pump. (1999)
Transmission leak: Manual transmissions' drain plugs may leak. BMW also suggests replacing the fill plug. (1999)
Transmission slippage: Transmission may slip and/or check-engine light may glow due to torque converter clutch (TCC) slipping and/or TCC solenoid failure. (1999)
Consumer Guide® Estimated Repair Costs
This table lists costs of likely repairs for comparison with other vehicles. The dollar amount includes the cost of the part(s) and labor (based on $50 per hour) for the typical repair without extras or add-ons. Like the pricing information, replacement costs can vary widely depending on region. Expect charges at a new-car dealership to be slightly higher.

Item Name Repair Cost

A/C Compressor $770

Alternator $640

Automatic Transmission or Transaxle $810

Brakes $445

Clutch, Pressure Plate, Bearing $725

Constant Velocity Joints $1,235

Exhaust System $895

Radiator $650

Shocks and/or Struts $1,320

Timing Chain or Belt $415

NHTSA Recall History
1999 323i/328i: Retaining clip that secures brake-booster pushrod to brake-pedal arm could detach from pin, allowing pushrod to disconnect, causing brake failure.
1999: Side airbag system is unduly sensitive to certain noncrash impacts, such as contacting large potholes or curbs at substantial speed; could deploy without an actual side crash. Battery Safety Terminal could also activate, disconnecting starter cable from battery, so engine could not be restarted after being shut off.
2000 323i/328i: Brake-lamp switch could fail internally, remaining either in "off" or "on" position; brake lamps would then either not operate or be continuously illuminated.
2001 315i/335i: On some vehicles, tires could lose air suddenly, affecting vehicle control.
2001 M3: Screws could fall into the parking-brake drum, reducing effectiveness or making screeching noises.
2001: Failure of engine-fan motor can cause electrical circuitry to overload and fail, causing fan to stop operating, with consequent engine overheating and possible engine damage.
2002 325Xi: There may be a crack in the rear brake rotor(s) that could expand due to braking torque, separating the brake drum from the disc.
2002 325i, 330i: The front strut could separate from the upper mount due to an improperly installed thrust bearing.
2003 325Ci/330i: Antiwindow pinching devices are not functioning properly on some vehicles. Dealer will inspect and replace all affected parts.

What makes anyone think this will change for the E90?

This is so pointless, I can make this argument about every car out there. :sick:

mz6greyghost · September 2007

What makes anyone think this will change in 2008??

What makes you think this WON'T??

Let's be fair here. If you can find out the info for the CTS, then post up the info from CG for the other cars on the list, notably the 3-series, C-class, IS, and G35.

Edit: Thank you louiswei

imidazol97 · September 2007

Thank you for posting.

circlew · September 2007

What makes you think this WON'T??

Because of GM's business model. As you can see, the cts had way more serious issues. I checked before I posted.

Anyone can find out the issues of all cars in the ELLPS category. Thanks for the feedback.

Regards,
OW

kdshapiro · September 2007

Do you notice the only issue of substance related to this conversation is for 2002? The M3 and 323 are so far removed from this discussion to be meaningless.

texases · September 2007

I put the Caddy, BMW, and MB in the same poor pot, based on a number of years of CR surveys.

circlew · September 2007

Agree. Asian is top, german next, US dead last, as usual. The dead last spot comes from many years of personal experience. :sick:

Regards,
OW

blueguydotcom · September 2007

Well, who said that GM has to beat 335i/535i in acceleration with this new car.

The law of the jungle. The escalating arms race necessitates that eventually somebody will produce a car with a Pratt and Whitney 50,000 HP turbine. I want to see that day and bask in the soul-warming heat of a jet-fuel-driven engine's exhaust.

The new CTS could by far has the best infotainment system in this class.

I don't even understand that. It's all just pops and bleeps to me unless you're outfitting the car with 50 caliber machine guns so I can take down accident lookie-loos and idiots that won't use turn signals.

shipo · September 2007

"The escalating arms race necessitates that eventually somebody will produce a car with a Pratt and Whitney 50,000 HP turbine."

Personally I'd be happy with a car powered by the venerable R-2800 (possibly/probably the finest example of a piston engine that will ever be built). ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

texases · September 2007

Personally I'd be happy with a car powered by the venerable R-2800 (possibly/probably the finest example of a piston engine that will ever be built).
This may be as close as we'll get:

shipo · September 2007

OMG! :surprise:

louiswei · September 2007

outfitting the car with 50 caliber machine guns so I can take down accident lookie-loos and idiots that won't use turn signals.

Trust me, I'll take the 50 caliber over any infotainment system, 30GB HD or massage chairs. I would love for my car to have a speaker that broadcast 3 preset messages:

1. Yes, it's you, stop looking.
2. The lady in the Camry, LETS GO.
3. What the *beep* are you doing?

However, like I said, I am pretty sure I am the minority here and most people do want a comfortable ride surrounded by 20 speakers.

sevenfeet0 · September 2007

Sorry, I understand fully why the %35 and 335 are much faster than the CTS. I just can't comprehend why GM came late to the party and forgot to bring the potato salad.

The CTS is hardly late...a five year product cycle is typical...for the record, the old car was sold for about 5.5 years.

Second, since the '08 CTS wasn't a "clean sheet" design, it has to deal with some of the issues of the previous car, namely the chassis. The chassis is an update to the same Sigma chassis found in the old CTS, the STS and the SRX. That chassis is known for its strength and all around performance, but it's not the lightest design out there. Some automakers are putting more and more aluminum in their chassis designs but this is expensive and have implications for repair shops. So the '08 CTS got an update on the old system, but at a cost of weight savings a new design would have brought.

markcincinnati · September 2007

The BMW turbo charged engine generates damn near weapons grade torque at damn near "nuttin'" RPM's.

The CTS DI engine generates adequate, nearly ample torque -- but not so much when compared with the BMW blown engine which generates MUCH more torque at MUCH lower RPM.

The CTS at this "point of inflection" is a direct competitor with the BMW 3, Audi A4, Infiniti G35, etc.

It's wheelbase, to be sure, is 5 series -- but that "don't make it -- yet -- a member of the club."

The CTS is perhaps a 4 series or whatever might be comparable in the imaginary car world.

This makes the CTS perhaps somewhat of a bargain, since it is priced like the cars mentioned above that actually are being produced today, but is somewhat "more" than its price might otherwise suggest.

It seems, to me, however, to be "state of the art" 2004 -- and that is NOT a bad thing, especially at the price most of us will be able to lease one for.

It is a great effort, a very nice car, one that I would not kick out of bed for eating crackers -- but it is NOT a car that leads in any area, save perhaps price.

Drive a $40K G35X sport back to back with a $48K CTS AWD DI and make up your own mind.

Despite what you might conclude, if the CTS had decent bluetooth, I'd probably pick it over the G, based on what I assume the discount on the CTS will, shortly, be normal.

Why? :confuse:

I love the interior of the CTS and I'm going to "vote" American if I can, this time.

habitat1 · September 2007

I put the Caddy, BMW, and MB in the same poor pot, based on a number of years of CR surveys.

What "years" of Consumer Reports are you referring to? The previous generation BMW 5-series got the highest rating ever given by Consumer Reports. Caused my former boss to ditch his Lexus ES and move up to a 528i which he still has with 140k+ miles and virtually 0 problems.

I'm not sure where the current BMW's stand in CR but the pre-i-Drive models were rated way, way, way above GM and way above Mercedes.

texases · September 2007

In '05 or '06 these models had worse or much worse than average reliability: BMW: 5 series, 7 series, M3, X3; MB: all; Caddy: SRX, STS
My apologies to the 3 series and the CTS, they're OK. (But I still cannot fathom iDrive)

dan12 · September 2007

(But I still cannot fathom iDrive)

Personally, I like it. I find it useful and intuitive. I also have regular buttons for the most frequently used functions but I find myself using iDrive for everything except vents and A/C. I can only talk about the 3-series iDrive which is supposed to be simpler than the 5 and 7 series. I haven't tried the more complicated systems, but the 3 is quite nice.

sevenfeet0 · September 2007

Hi Mark,

I can agree on some of your points and disagree on others. First, I do think the CTS is a member of the 5 series competitor club with the exception of the non-availability of V8 power. It has just about everything else. There are a few options sometimes found in this group (lane change avoidance) that are still only available on the STS, probably to keep some product seperation while that model goes on its long march to oblivion.

And regarding Infiniti, ah yes, they do upset the ol' product line apple cart, don't they? The M35 is on the large size of the class, mostly in terms of length (one of the reasons I liked it...it's always been on my short list). The G35 is supposed to be the BMW 3 series competitor, but in terms of size, it's the "tweener car" that the old CTS was. The G35 is a small midsize car that's on the small size of the 5-series class in terms of length and about and inch and change shorter in wheelbase. The width is narrower, much like the old CTS. As a result, it's playing in that "I can be a 3 series competitor and give you more room" role that the old CTS was doing. As a result, it's simular engine power but smaller mass gives it a small advantage to the new CTS but still nips the heels of the smaller BMW.

Given your previous posts, I know AWD is a bigger priority for you up in Ohio versus for me down in Tennessee. And that's fine by me. The G35 AWD will probably pull a more sporting performance that the CTS AWD given a likely 400-500 lb weight advantage. The CTS gives the driver more interior room (especially leg room) which is a bigger priority for me (top priority really).

Karen_S · September 2007

A reporter from a national newspaper is hoping to talk to consumers who have been shopping for a European vehicle (BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, Audi or others) and have found them to be more expensive because of the Euro exchange rates. Please reply to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Monday, October 1, 2007 with your daytime contact info.

blueguydotcom · September 2007

Isn't the writer assuming their story's angle is correct then? If the writer is only seeking buyers who think the price is too high based on euro exchange rates, then the writer's looking only for people who will support the story's thesis. Bad way to write an article.

habitat1 · September 2007

A reporter from a national newspaper is hoping to talk to consumers who have been shopping for a European vehicle (BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, Audi or others) and have found them to be more expensive because of the Euro exchange rates.

What does the exchange rate have to do with an American consumer paying US dollars in the US for these European vehicles? As far as I know, the European automakers haven't raised their US MSRP's due to the declining dollar. Those European manufacturers stand to make less money, having to convert their US sales to Euros when they repatriotize the funds. But until they start raising MSRP's. the US buyer could care less what the Euro exchange rate is.

And, by the way, the dollar has also dropped substantially against the Yen.

circlew · September 2007

That CTS is sure looking cheap to everyone in Europe and Asia. Too bad the import duties would raise a US car over the cost of domestic purchase of a home grown variant over there.

Regards,
OW

texases · September 2007

I sat next to a guy from Australia, showed him the CTS and its price, he said it'd be $80k (Aus$, about $70k US) if it sold over there. Ouch!

circlew · September 2007

Wow! "Made in the US" means big $$$ to the importer! What a rip!

Regards,
OW

texases · September 2007

I think it's also the duties/taxes/etc., too. BMWs are also much higher there.

louiswei · September 2007

Just for chuckles, in Taiwan...

330i: NT$2,520K = $77,538 USD (They don't have 335i sedan over there)
IS250: NT$1,960K = $60,307 USD (No IS350 over there)
G35: NT$1,920K = $59,076 USD
'07 CTS: NT$2,280K = $70,153 USD
C300: NT$2,430K = $74,769 USD (No C350 over there)
A4 1.8T = NT$1,679 = $51,661 USD (No 2.0T and 3.2 over there)

All prices are including tax.

Guys, we got it good here...

kdshapiro · September 2007

How many G35s would be sold in the US for $59K? :blush

habitat1 · September 2007

Interesting Taiwanese prices, Louiswie - but you know I have to ask - how much for a 911S??

louiswei · September 2007

Ferrari 612 Scaglietti 5.7: NT$ 15.3M = $470,769 USD
Porsche 911: NT$ 5.38M = $165,538 USD
Porsche 911S: NT$ 6.08M = $187,076 USD
Porsche 911 Turbo: NT$ 9.08M = $279,384 USD
Porsche BoxterS: NT$ 3.98M = $122,461 USD

circlew · September 2007

GULP!

I love the US!!

Regards,
OW

habitat1 · September 2007

Thanks. Guess I better wax my $200,000 911S Cab this weekend. While drinking a few $1 Yuenglings.

eljefe2 · September 2007

My A4 2.0T lease is up. Current deal was $1100 down with $409/month AT for 24 months. Looking at the same thing, Infinity G35, or Luxus IS250. Any strong opinions on which is the best car and if I can get a similar deal on the Lexus & Infinity?

Here is the offer I received on another A4.

2008 Audi A4
Model # 8EC5EH 4dr Sdn CVT 2.0T FrontTrak
PX - PREMIUM PKG -inc: leather seating surfaces, 17" x 7.5" 5-spoke cast alloy wheels, P235/45HR17 all-season tires
PT1 - BLUETOOTH PHONE PREP
36 month lease  12,000 miles per year
$ 2,122.00--> Total Amount due at Signing of Lease
- 750.00  Audi Loyalty Bonus
= $1,372.00  Total Amount due at signing of lease.
35 monthly payments of $404.24

$ 32,800.00 --> Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price - 1,887.00 --> Discount
= $ 30,913.00 --> Capitalized Cost
- 713.96 --> capitalized cost reduction
= $ 30,199.04 --> Total Net Capitalized Cost
$ 19,024.00 --> Residual value at end of month
.00128 --> Money factor

laurasdada · September 2007

Wax? Don't you mean Zaino???

Sorry, I have a Zaino problem (Z-7 & Z-6 into the dark of a Friday night. Thinking of Z-2 first thing in the morning...). But winter doth approach, ending my season of Zainoing.

blueguydotcom · September 2007

you're approaching your leases wrong. You should negotiate the price of the car and find out the MF and residual at another dealer. Never take the deal in the paper. Always negotiate the price of the car and call another dealer to get the Audi lease rates. You can save thousands this way.

markcincinnati · September 2007

I have found faults with the new CTS. For the most part, these faults would not rule the new CTS out. The thing is, to my eye, beautiful and seemingly well made (fit and finish wise, at least.)

I think it is an STS killer and if that does come true, it will probably enter the LPS class. It is, at this moment in time, still a "near" LPS contestant. NOT because I say so, heck it is virtually in the class now by most "measurable" accounts (content wise.)

It is not the most modern, it breaks very little new ground (if any) in the ELLPS or LPS class -- other than its styling. When compared with the LPS class it comes out as a bargain, when compared with the class "the pundits" place it in, however, it is about 15% or so too pricey.

I do not think it is Cadillac's Phaeton -- indeed, I think it will be thought of as the beginning of a new Cadillac. It will find itself -- if it is forced to play in the LPS class -- the bargain car.

That may not be enough.

I would compare the new CTS with the BMW 3, the NEW (not in the US yet) A4 and perhaps an Infiniti or Lexus of the tweener variety as you suggest.

Now, for me, the interior and the 300+ HP motor are winners -- and knowing GM, the lease incentives will start second quarter '08 and make the new CTS hard to resist for many of us who have "been there done that" with similar sized cars from Europe. My Audi is lovely to behold, but breathtakingly expensive to "hold" beyond the warranty period.

"All" my friends say their experience with 'merican cars and trucks have typically been experiences with reliability and longentivity, if not the last 1/10th of performance.

This might be quite refreshing.

As a fur instance: My wife's BMW's brakes (when they need repair) if the thing is out of warranty cost $950 per axle -- I hear they go out about 55K miles.

I can only assume the GM product would be friendlier to keep longer.

Moreover, despite my comments about the Cadillac being state of the art, 2004, well, that's not entirely a bad place to be.

As I get down closer to the final 5 or 6 months before I order the "next" -- more data will be available. Hopefully, I can turn that data into information.

:surprise:

kyfdx · September 2007

You won't be able to touch that deal with an Infiniti or Lexus..

$1372 upfront and $404/mo. for 3yr/36K is a good deal for a $33K MSRP car....

regards,
kyfdx
visiting host

david_fl · October 2007

I disagree with your comment about not being able to touch that deal. I just leased a G35 sedan last week for $1600 down and $440 a month for 39 mnth/15k yr. I know if I dropped my mileage to 12k a year my price would have dropped a bunch as well, so it would be even closer to the Audi deal.

I was also looking at the A4 and choose to pay a bit more for the G35. Here are some of the reasons I made that decisions simple just based on my opinions and time spent in the cars during the "fun" process they call car buying.

The G35 just started its current model, while next year at this time everybody will be talking about he new A4 model and I did not want to be tied into an old model.
I felt like I was getting more standard features with the G35 vs. the A4 (one of the real breaking points was the fact Audi simple could not offer me memory seating)
The engine simple blew the Audi out of the water. Low 200's vs. low 300's, come on... not even close!
I like the looks of the G35 body better than the A4. I do think the A4 with the S line exterior looks very sharp and sporty (which is standard on the 08'), I just thought it looked a bit dated, like I have seen that body style for a long time now
One nifty little feature that I first thought was gimmicky is the keyless entry and engine start. I do have to say I love not needing to pull my keys out, not sure if the "fun factor" will wear off on that :shades:

Audi did have some points that I thought were better than Infiniti though

The A4 has WAYYYYY better gas mileage than G35
I liked the fact the A4 had a CVT transmission, I felt it was smooth and more predicable.
I like the interior of the A4 a bit more than the G35. I thought the A4 was "classier" and had more of a premium look and feel, while I do think the G35 is nice I jest felt like it was colder and not as upscale compared with the A4

All in all I would really suggest you look at what you really want and if paying a few extra $$$ is worth it in the long haul. I simply said "it is only $40 bucks a month, I can bring my lunch for a few days to work."

Of course I went with an 07' G35 as an 08' simple did not justify the increased cost for the few extras is brought, a different story if going to actually purchase.

The Lexus is a nice car, but personally I think it looks a little weird and the seats were kind of small (front and back) and the lease rates where just not close to the A4 or G35.

blueguydotcom · October 2007

One nifty little feature that I first thought was gimmicky is the keyless entry and engine start. I do have to say I love not needing to pull my keys out, not sure if the "fun factor" will wear off on that

It won't. It's a fantastic feature. Once you live with it you never want a car with normal keys again.

habitat1 · October 2007

It won't. It's a fantastic feature. Once you live with it you never want a car with normal keys again.

Strong endorsement from someone who I thought abhorred luxury gimmicks. I'm probably putting words in your mouth, but can't I hear you saying "give me a lightweight car with a great chassis and stick the power windows and sound insulation up your ...."

Seriously, never had a keyless entry car - too advanced for Porsche, I guess - but a friend has had numerous problems with his. He works for Fox News and apparantly the electromagnetic interference from the broadcast tower screws up his keyless entry. And "Joe torque-wrench" in the service department isn't that great at listening to his complaints.

I'm of the opinion that all these techno/electronic do-dads that don't add to the DRIVING experience are conspiring to force people to sell their cars before the warranty expires. Our MDX navigation system (control unit) has been replaced twice in 2.5 years. The chances of me keeping another car 13 years and 155k miles like my 1995 Maxima are slim to none. Fine if you can afford to trade every 4 years, but that's not the strategy I used to get into a 911 in the first place.

So I'll take "normal" keys, thank you. Preferably ones that are inserted to the left side of the steering wheel.

kyfdx · October 2007

"Of course I went with an 07' G35"

Well... there you have it..

'07 models aren't going to be an option for very long.. Isn't the '08 model already on the lots?

regards,
kyfdx

circlew · October 2007

I'm of the opinion that all these techno/electronic do-dads that don't add to the DRIVING experience are conspiring to force people to sell their cars before the warranty expires.

That is exactly what is developing. Why buy a car that will cost more than fitting your children with braces just to fix the added gadgetry. More parts that will eventually fail.

I switched from owning to leasing as a result. No more warranty, no more car. The added cost up front is valuable to me in two ways: new cars every three years and paying up front for only part of the depreciation. The only way I would buy is with the intent to sell at the 3-year mark.

I know this is the more costly strategy. How much more is debatable and depends upon the model lease to lease. The enticing thing is opportunity to experience new choices as the market changes. Perhaps a Hydrogen-3'er soon!

Regards,
OW

fedlawman · October 2007

"I'm of the opinion that all these techno/electronic do-dads that don't add to the DRIVING experience are conspiring to force people to sell their cars before the warranty expires."

"Why buy a car that will cost more than fitting your children with braces just to fix the added gadgetry. More parts that will eventually fail.

I switched from owning to leasing as a result."

I switched from owning new cars to owning old cars.

blueguydotcom · October 2007

If I never have a normal key again, that'd be great. I see no advantage to fishing a key from my pocket, fumbling for the lock and then having to put the key in the ignition. Like I said, once you live with it...it's hard to go back.

I loved walking up to my BMW, getting right in and pressing go. All the old steps were gone. It just made getting my favorite part - driving - so much easier. Carrying groceries...boom right into the trunk, no stopping. Leaving the car - off, pull the e-brake, hop out and walk away. Can't be much cleaner than that.

leadfoot4 · October 2007

Hey all! I'm lookng for a little quick advice and or opinions. My wife's aunt has an '01 325xi with roughly 30,000 miles. She took it in to the dealer yesterday to get it's annual state safety inspection. Instead, she got the shock of her life...they told her that $1100 in repairs were necessary.

First off, they said the rear brakes were totally shot. I'm assuming the e-brake mechanism probably froze up due to road salt corosion. That, in turn, probably toasted the pads and then the rotors. Not happy, but probably logical, however $500 seems a bit high to buy 2 calipers, rotors, and pads, as well as replace the parts.

The second item on the list really got me, though...BOTH rear springs were broken...On a 30,000 mile car, that never has even seen anybody in the back seat! Another $500-550 to replace them. I'm not all that familiar with BMWs, does this seem normal??

Thanks for any info you can provide!

louiswei · October 2007

Can't agree with you more...

Before I have a smart key car I don't think this is a big deal too. I was like: how tough can it be to take the key out of my pocket, put it in the ignition and twist it? But after getting used to it I was so uncomfortable with a non-smart key car.

It's just one of those things that you really don't need it but once you get used to it, you can hardly go back. It's like drugs...

I can't see myself owning another car without this feature.

blueguydotcom · October 2007

Broken springs and bad brakes = tough or bad driving conditions. You mentioned road salt, so I presume she drives in an area with really bad roads - potholes, broken asphalt, etc? It's quite possible she did these things and as it typical of many people, simply won't cop to it or "forgot" about that or those incidents where she really slammed the car.

Obviously, going to an independent repair shop is a much better idea (and you'll save probably 30-40%). The BMW is way out of warranty, so why in the hell are you taking the car to a stealership. Dealerships make the majority of their money on two things: used cars and repairs. Selling new cars to you only starts the cycle...

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