Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

1…199200202204205…435

Comments

  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    It's all relative. 90%+ of drivers see no advantage to "fumbling" with a manual transmission, let alone their ignition key. And about 99% wouldn't know how to roll up windows by hand. Personally, given the enhanced ability to venture "off course" and detour my way around traffic jambs, I won't own another car without a navigation system.

    I'm sure I'd find the keyless entry feature convenient, myself. But I also forgot to mention that my 911 was in for service last week due to a convertible top that has been acting possessed. Occasionally gets stuck in the down position. I expected to hear that it was a malfunctioning motor. As it turns out, the motor is fine, but the convertible top "computer" was not getting/sending the proper signals and needs to be replaced. A friggin "computer" for the convertible top?? I am beginning to think there really is a geek conspiracy out there.

    P.S. A couple of years ago, a business associate who's home was the second highest in elevation in Contra Costa County (his one uphill neighbor gets the prize) had his low mileage BMW 7-series struck by lightening, while parked in his driveway. A dime sized burn mark on the hood was all that was visible from the outside. The car was deemed "totaled" by his insurance company and went to the boneyard. A $50k+ write-off. Apparantly, replacing every bit of fried electronics would have been more labor intensive than building a new car - with no guarantee that they wouldn't have missed something.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    True. For me, never having to go for a key is just a godsend. Essentially, I carried just my BMW fob and that only left my pants/shorts when I'd get home. Otherwise a keyless life is nice.

    Navi to me was great in Europe. Around town, I know all the streets and it's easy to detour in San Diego (N-S-E-W is about as easy as it can get).

    But I get ya - one man's gold is another man's soft useless metal.
  • bruceomegabruceomega Member Posts: 250
    FWIW,

    We used to own an '01 330Xi, purchased as a previously owned car circa 2003 with less than 15,000 miles when we bought it. Within a year, we had to replace a broken rear spring.

    We bought it from a (non BMW) dealer who specialized in prevously owned BMWs, and they claimed they performed a thorough inspection at the time of sale to ensure the car was in good shape.

    We discovered the problem the first time we had 5 people on board, about a year after we bought the car when it had about 30,000 miles- it was making a funny noise over bumps with that load.

    I have no idea how or when the spring broke as we don't abouse our cars and we had no specific incidents per se.

    Thanks
    Bruce
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    I've heard of the rear shock tower mounts failing (pretty common, actually, and no big deal), but I've never heard of a spring breaking.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    It's all about the computer/program from now on. It really is a bitter-sweet evolution. Soon you will need a nuclear physics degree to maintain the damn things! Hydrogen, lithium-ion/hybridization, and lane-departure technology are a far cry from seat-of-the-pants and 4-on-the-floor!

    The 7'er story is an eye-opener. That's what I would call a very neat and thorough "Fry Job". Quick and painless! If your computer can't be fixed to open/close your top, ask your business associate if you can park your car in his driveway for a few weeks! Then you can get your GT2!!!

    Regards,
    OW
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,708
    The price is no surprise, but, like the others have said, the springs are. Get it to an independent garage and get a second opinion.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I like the way you think, but I need to get my 911S above 105 mph before I trade up to a 205 mph GT2! That, and find another $100k+ in loose change between the seat cushions.

    Besides, I bet they don't even come with a navigation system and I know they don't come with keyless entry!
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I figured you buried that mark by now. I believe you have just over 10K miles now. Heck, 105 is a quick stab for your ride or track day should do it.

    In any event, in the GT2 you'll have a blast getting lost...and won't loose any real time when you finally find your way!

    Regards,
    OW
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Seemed the reviewer thinks the V6 is the option people would be intrigued by? Why? Quattro 2.0T with a chip is more powerful and a good 300lbs lighter.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Because "most" people buying cars don't even know what a "chip" is nevertheless what does it do to a turbo charged engine. All they know is their butts are telling them that the V6 feels better and smoother than the 2.0T.

    Keep in mind, people who spent times here are a rare breed.
  • dan12dan12 Member Posts: 114
    I suppose you also can't "chip" a car if it's leased and it may void your warranty in which case you may not want to do it even if you buy it.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    People chip leased cars all the time. In fact it makes more sense to chip a leased car as you needn't worry about any long term damage. By the time it shows up it's someone else's problem. Leased car = drive it like you stole it.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Note to self...do not buy CPO cars originating from southern california....
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 237,051
    Are you kidding? Every time he gets a car, I note the year, make, model, color and options... and, write any cars that match off of my list.. ;)

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    :P

    I'm not beating on my Cooper. And a guy in SF now has my 06 330i.
  • dan12dan12 Member Posts: 114
    I'm not beating on my Cooper. And a guy in SF now has my 06 330i.

    I hope he doesn't read this board! :)
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    lol He's a good guy and last time we spoke the car's been perfect for him. Of course, by the time he got it I already had BMW fix the broken HVAC and bad brakes.
  • leadfoot4leadfoot4 Member Posts: 593
    Blueguy, when dealing with "old timers", you have to understand 2 things. First, they probably did whack a few potholes, however they don't even remotely remember doing it. It's tough not to do in western New York.

    Secondly, a lot of the oldsters think they'll get better treatment at the place they bought the car, and our aunt is no different. I did manage, however, to at least get her to go to the "high end" import repair shop in our area for a second opinion. Even though I don't have imports myself, I go there because they have the latest and greatest Hunter alignment and tire equipment, and I'll vouch for the quality of their work.

    Much to her surprise, they did agree with the dealers' diagnosis, but were significantly less money.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Out of warranty = can't imagine ever going near a BMW dealer.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    To me, out of warranty = new lease.

    Regards,
    OW
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Out of warranty = now I get to play with my tools.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    lol, true
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    rothflmao :):):)
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,708
    Take a look, he likes the CTS:
    Karls comparison
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    He compared the cars against what "he" alone wants in a car and not against what the models in this segment should offer the people who shop for them.

    He doesn't like the G35 because it's too sporty :confuse:

    "Ride quality [in the CTS] is softer than either, and it feels like the biggest and heaviest of the group"

    Oh yeah, that's what I look for in a Sports Sedan... Soft, Big and Heavy!

    Dumb article
  • billyperks1billyperks1 Member Posts: 151
    Scott- question,I was at the Lexus dealer on Saturday testing the GS350 AGAIN.I noticed that they do the installation for the 3M product and when asked about pricing this is what my sales guy said.For the hood and the mirrors its going to cost me $695, for the hood, the bumper and the mirrors its going to run me $1295.00- does this sound correct?
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    No, that's way too steep.
    The guys on the Lexus forums are paying fairly high prices, in terms of comparisons to other car models...but no higher than I paid in the G35.

    Mine was originally $795- but after laughing at them, they came down to $695-

    That covered the whole front end.
    Front bumper including lower spoiler, mirror fronts, hood and fenders.

    The GS is slightly bigger, yes, but not enough to justify that price. $1295 is just too much.

    Are you located in the North East?
    I can recommend my installer if needed.
  • billyperks1billyperks1 Member Posts: 151
    The power of networking- thanks for the heads up, I actually line in Connecticut (Fairfield County).Let me know if you are close by.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,708
    You can also go to the 3M web site for installers - probably who the dealer uses, anyway
    3M film installers
  • billyperks1billyperks1 Member Posts: 151
    Guess what? with the link you gave me, I did a search and an installer is literally 3 miles from my home.He said the basic package will run me 400 to 500 bucks which includes the front bumper, hood, fog lights and mirrors.For a more custom package that includes the scuff plates, it would cost a little more.He also mentioned that there are a lot of rip off installers out there that uses a material of lesser quality that turns yellow in a few months.Is this true or is he just selling a pitch?
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,708
    I'd stick with 3M - who knows what the others are like?
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    I foundmy installer the same way, through the 3M website.
    Luckily, they had one at my dealership in Warwick, RI.
    I had them do the job for me, $100- less than I could find anywhere around town and the car was done before I tok delivery.
    The job is 100% perfect.

    Inskip also sells Lexus, so the guy is very experienced with those as well.

    Inskip Reconditioning in Warwick, RI
    401-821-1510
    Installers name is Alejandro Creamer

    Sales Manager's name is Manny Taveres
    He's the guy who tweaked the price for me and set up the appt.

    It's not in CT, so you may be better off with a quick 3 mile trip.
    Which ever you choose, good luck.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    I checked out the new CTS over the weekend and I've gotta say, I'm pretty impressed. One caveat: I didn't drive a manual, so I won't talk about performance/dynamics right now. Suffice it to say the ride/handling compromise is class appropriate, with a refined driveline that has no bad manners or noticeable deficiencies.

    Sure, it's not the sportiest car in this segment (it's far to big and heavy for that), but I respect the fact that Cadillac didn't try to beat BMW at their own (increasingly ambiguous) game.

    Instead, Cadillac has built a car that has one of the nicest, roomiest cabins in this class, and trimmed it with high quality materials and appointments. It's easily the nicest cabin I've ever seen on a GM, and a match in quality and layout to anything in the class. The stitched seams on the soft-touch dashboard covering, and the wood and metallic accents are very pleasing. I found the backseat to be quite comfortable too, although as previously mentioned, the footwell is tight.

    Exterior styling is definitely too contrived (subjective, I know) - too many angles and random acts of chrome for my tastes, but again, it looks modern and aggressive - even attractive - and for its part, at least it doesn't look like every other car on the road. I have to respect GM for trying something different and mostly pulling it off.

    Personally, I think the softer, larger, and heavier 3-series has alienated many of the driving enthusiasts interested in this segment, and it will be up to the lighter, more compact 1-series to win us back over BMW. I don't know if the CTS now defines this segment - bigger and more luxurious yet still sporty, but it definitely compares favorably with the BMW and Infinity on the performance-----luxury continuum. Every car in this segment has slid way to the right on that scale over the past few years, so who can fault Cadillac for grabbing tightly onto the right end?

    What remains to be seen is whether GM can sell it in the volumes it deserves. I don't think the CTS will fail because of its quality, styling, features, or luxury. I think the toughest battle the CTS faces is still the stigma associated with the badge it wears on the hood.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,504
    Interesting. Thanks.

    You could well be correct with your assessment that Cadillac has squandered their once-revered status. Could be worse, though -- think Lincoln.

    Either way, the CTS carved a decent niche with its first version, and most appear to fall all over themselves exclaiming over how much better this one is.

    If Cadillac can get even a few BMW/Audi/Infiniti/MB people to come over, there's a huge cadre of "buy American" folks who'll drive it for that reason alone.

    Looks to me like it's going to be a winner, though it does look strange & a bit gaudy (for my taste, such as it is).
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Agreed.

    I think those of us driving enthusiasts who favor BMW's are inherently opposed to gaudiness and flash. Unfortunately, I think we are in the minority.

    There are many others that want a car that is sporty and luxurious, yet also serves as a fashion statement (style, status, etc.).

    I've seen enough BMW's wearing 19" chrome wheels to know that the CTS will be a big success.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,504
    ". . .BMW's wearing 19" chrome wheels. . ."

    Oh yes.

    One of the things than endeared me to the Lincoln LS early on was one of the senior sales executives who would come down like the hammer of Thor on any dealer that put a "carriage roof" treatment on an LS. He was a real car guy, but the dealers were as clueless as the day is long, to say nothing of the people who drove Lincolns in 2000 -- all moot these days.

    BMW endures much of the same, though Cadillac may siphon off some of the more ostentatious with the CTS. That's a good thing.

    Drivers, unite!!
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I loved my LS...now Lincoln is sadly....GONE.

    I agree with both fed and yourself regarding a nice package for the CTS...but the styling still alienates me, not to mention the Catera heritage and the stigma of arrogance from most dealers I associated with in the past in NY.

    I think the global enthusiasts spoke loud enough to create the 1-series. No doubt this will be a success in 2 ways...since the base model will attract yet even younger buyers and the 135 the crowd that craves perfection!

    Funny thing is when I explained to my wife the 1-series would come in smaller than the current 3'er, she was shocked that I would consider such a small car. She worries I will wedge under a semi and never be heard from again!

    Regards,
    OW
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Member Posts: 486
    I think the reasonings behind BMW doing the 1 series are pretty simple, and I doubt it came as backlash from 3 series owners (that car still has crazy sales numbers). The fact is that the BMW 3 series had grown in size and purpose from its 2002tii roots and that there was a potential model that could be inserted there now. That combined with the fact that the 3 series is getting so expensive that it is pricing itself out of the hands of its youngest customers makes the business case.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    All these entry levels are expensive, the 250 isn't expensive. The 1 series will appeal to the Mazda 3 and VW GTI crowd.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    I agree.

    I also think it will also appeal to the Audi A3/A4 crowd, the Mazda 6 and Accord Coupe crowd, and perhaps most of all, the BMW 3-series crowd (the ones that want an E46, but shopping the E90/E92 because it's the only game in town).

    It'll be interesting to see if the first few months following the 1-series debut has an effect on 3-series sales.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Except it's the size of a 5 series.

    Not a 3.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Uhhh, what?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    I think he's referring to the size of the CTS.

    Yup, the CTS is big, but all of the cars in this segment are growing faster than The Incredible Hulk. Eventually, if this segment continues it's current trend, all of these cars will be as big as, or bigger than the 2008 CTS. Cadillac simply went there first.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    ...and as the Hulk gains weight, he continues to expand horsepower exponentially! What to do with all that energy!

    At least this segment has a Dr. Banner side as well!

    Regards,
    OW
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Edmunds has a review of the 1 series. Interesting. The 1 series with the turbo engine and BMW handling will rule. I can't wait to get a test drive.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Linky: First Look: 2009 BMW 1 Series Convertible
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Extremely generic review. It really tells us nothing. I wish car reviewers would man up and discuss something beyond trunk space or stop using nebulous phrases about handling. Compare and contrast, please.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Now there's this one (which may have been the one kdshapiro meant): First Drive: 2009 BMW 135i.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,940
    Hmmmm....

    there is simply no more accomplished car for $30,000 than the 2009 BMW 135i

    Does Edmunds know something that nobody else does at this point?? Or is this a case of poetic license? Maybe the writer felt "$35k" to be too tough of a crowd to make such a statement?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Pat, that is the article I was referring to. I should have posted the link. Thanks.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles