Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

1206207209211212435

Comments

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Dude, put that pig on a track and its lap times will be absolutely laughable compared to each of the cars that actually are in this class. It seems that you think that by taking a large FWD sled and then dropping in a big motor and slapping on some sticky rubber, it will suddenly be transformed into a "Sports Sedan". Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but the LaCrosse doesn't even come close to meeting the criteria as a Sports Sedan.

    If you don't believe me that the LaCrosse doesn't measure up, that's fine, consult the car comparison web site of your choice and look at the cars the "experts" think the Buick competes with. My bet is that you'll see a list that looks something like the following:

    - Chevy Impala
    - Chrysler 300
    - Dodge Charger
    - Ford Tarus
    - Honda Accord
    - Hyundai Sonata
    - Kia Optima
    - Mazda Mazda6
    - Mercury Sable
    - Mitsubishi Galant
    - Nissan Altima
    - Saturn Aura
    - Subaru Legacy
    - Toyota Camry

    Not exactly a thrilling list of car that one would want to go "sporting" with now is it.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Exactly right! At least I am getting some enjoyment from the US cars now that I gave up on them.

    Take a modified LaCross and carry some speed, let's say 40 mph, into a switch back turn and you will be out of your misery once and for all!

    image

    Regards,
    OW
  • jpstax1jpstax1 Member Posts: 197
    Dude. Like some of the other so-called "experts" that post in this forum, you don't know what you're talking about. The Super's 0-60 time is 5.7 seconds, and its top speed is 155mph, making it the fastest Buick ever. And according to professional test drivers, it does pretty well in slalom too, with its sport-tuned suspension (with tuned Bilstein struts) and more precise steering (using Delphi's premium system).

    BTW, where are the Caddy CTS, Impala SS, and Pontiac G8 GT on your list?

    Link: http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/buick/lacrosse/100900863/compare.html

    A word to the wise, next time check your facts before running your mouth.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Yeesh, some people don't get it. :confuse:
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    FWD and into the wall on the turns. Here's a good review from someone who drove one. Another re-badge to a dying brand. How utterly boring.

    Does anyone remember the Buick Grand National??? :cry:

    link title

    Regards,
    OW
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Cadillac spent the ninties trying to make the STS into a serious sports sedan contenter. They failed. Cadillac's solution was the RWD sigma platform CTS, STS models which are a much better set of cars.

    The Lacrosse, like the Impala and Grand Prix, have a bit too much engine for the platform, and while faster in a straight line, still are not well balanced for twisty mountain highways. They are probably better in snow though.
  • sjaievesjaieve Member Posts: 252
    If I am offered this Buick for $5,000 (five thousand), fully loaded and brand new, I would pass on it. :P
  • sjaievesjaieve Member Posts: 252
    Dude. Like some of the other so-called "experts" that post in this forum, you don't know what you're talking about. The Super's 0-60 time is 5.7 seconds, and its top speed is 155mph, making it the fastest Buick ever

    I remember being blasted on this forum for prioritizing track times over handling and driving dynamics. Had I gone this low, I dont think so :P
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    Wow. You must've beaten it up pretty badly. :sick: I drove a brand new one way back in the day, and it was as quiet as a tomb. I had a '94 Corolla (loved that car!) and you'd never guess that it and the Prizm were "twins." The Corolla exhibited mucho road noise, and the Prizm of the same era was smooth and quiet.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    making it the fastest Buick ever.

    That, my friend, really doesn't help your case at all...

    Anyway, the Lexus ISX50 is the Buick in this group according to some people so your beloved LaX is out of luck (and spot) what-so-ever. ;)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    He-he. While I'm rarely in a position to say nice things about the IS, I think in this case the IS250 will handilly beat a LaCrosse Super around a track, in spite of its 96 HP disadvantage. The IS350 on the other hand will literally run away and hide from the Buick, probably as quickly as the first turn. ;)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • adamr001adamr001 Member Posts: 95
    Uh, fastest buick ever? Don't make me laugh. Ever heard of a Grand National? How about GNX? Oops, I laughed. :D
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Uh, fastest Buick ever? Don't make me laugh. Ever heard of a Grand National? How about GNX? Oops, I laughed.

    And the LaCrosse Super, just like the the GNX, is a muscle car. Great in a straight line, but that's it.

    A Sports Sedan/Coupe is:
    RWD or AWD.
    Manual available.
    As close to 3000lbs as possible.
    An emphasis on handling over straight line performance and HP.

    Buick is:
    FWD.
    Automatic only.
    Nearly 4000lbs.
    Insanely powerful and overbuilt.

    It's a muscle car. Is it any surprise considering what company made it? GM groks muscle cars, after all.

    Compare it to a Impreza, RX-8, or GLI. (yes, these aren't luxury, though they are the essence of sporty). Dropping in leather and a bigger engine - that's Mercedes trick. And it's a complete dead-end as they've found with their E Class(which is a Taxi in Europe. Nobody in Germany buys one for personal use)
  • adamr001adamr001 Member Posts: 95
    I was merely refuting the fastest Buick line. It's definitely not a sports car and is soundly in the muscle car range as you rightly pointed out.
  • jpstax1jpstax1 Member Posts: 197
    He drove it into the wall? That reviewer must be an incompetent moron. BTW, for every negative review, there's a positive one, such as this one:

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/features_classic_- cars/the_quickest_sedans_of_2008_30_000_to_40_000_feature+page-4.html
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Gimme a break!

    It’s no GNX, and 20 years later, it is almost a second slower to 60 mph.

    ...if not for the omnipresent torque steer, it might drive better than many Lexuses,

    The question is... which ones? I'll guess they did NOT mean the IS.

    The LaCrosse Super wasn’t designed to be a sports sedan, with all the comparisons that invites, and is instead billed as a “luxury touring sedan.”

    Hence the reason why it doesn't belong in this category.

    The 300 horsepower and the 323 pound-feet of torque will whisk upsold octogenarians to 60 mph in 5.7 seconds, if the torque steer at launch doesn’t snap their calcium-depleted wrists.

    High praise indeed...
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Ahhh, I see you're a spin doctor. Nothing in that review even remotely suggested that the LaCrosse should be considered a "Sports Sedan". A "quick" sedan, yes, but fast in a straight line does not a Sport Sedan make, like it or not.

    Regarding that review, hmmm, 8th out of 10 in a contest that stressed acceleration over handling, not exactly a stellar showing. Had handling been more on equal footing, the LaCrosse, what with its nasty nose heavy bias and FWD would have done even worse.

    Regarding that crack you made yesterday about me researching what I post before I post, well, I think the content of the last many posts (forgetting yours of course) plus the two cited reviews (including the one you referenced) pretty much says it all. Simply put, the LaCrosse, regardless of how much motor is stuffed under the hood, does not belong in a discussion of "Sports Sedans".

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • sjaievesjaieve Member Posts: 252
    The LaCrosse Super wasn’t designed to be a sports sedan, with all the comparisons that invites, and is instead billed as a “luxury touring sedan.” It does, after all, share its chassis and engine with Chevrolet’s Monte Carlo SS and Impala SS, as well as the Pontiac Grand Prix GXP, and front-wheel drive does none of these cars any favors.

    This came from the article you referenced above, therefore its not a sports sedan
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The only sports sedan GM makes is the 2008 CTS and the CTS -V. I do not consider '07 CTS and back a true sports sedan.

    The usual. Oh well. We will continue to wait...

    Regards,
    OW
  • r34r34 Member Posts: 178
    A sedan with big engine is not necessary a sport sedan. Better handing and feedback from the road are more important than 0-60 time; otherwise, a 200+ minivan may be considered as "sport minvan" (don't get me start talking about those stupid minivan drivers who think they have a sport car).

    If that guy keeps talking about FWD sedan, maybe a Saab 9-3 is the best Sport Sedan for GM because it is more a sport sedan than the Buick (I know, it may not have the best handling but it is not bad at all).However, it is a Swedish (import again). I remembered the Viggen has 155mph top speed too and most 9-3 can go beyond 145mph (4 cyls turbo vs. Buick's...).

    A lot of cars have very high top speed but not all of them can be driven safety and stable at that speed.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Actually drove an 08 CTS DI (close to fully loaded (45k) with sport suspension...not the extreme one...one down (all season tires)) as well as a 6spd (non DI) which was pretty basic.

    The DI was very nice with a panoramic roof; gorgeous on the inside and out. With the TC turned off I was able to get the back end out a couple feet. It was fast but not a "wow". The shifts were very smooth (that was a wow)...but when doing my power slides (never buy a demo car ;) ) the auto-manumatic took over a second to shift...so i bumped it off the rev-limiter before it decided to shift.

    The 6spd was nice as well...didn't have the rush in the higher rpms; but the throws and clutch take up was ok (not disappointing) . Although there was a high amount of vibration coming through the manual (similar to a G37 I drove a couple weeks ago).

    The CTS does need the upgraded interior...the base really does look like a "base" and shouldn't be sold with the name plate (assuming they want to keep it prestigious)
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... I do not consider '07 CTS and back a true sports sedan.

    Why not? And what about the STS and STS-V?
  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    And both the LaCrosse and the IS350 would be breathing diesel fumes from a BMW 335D Auto. At least until the first corner. After that they'd be in clear air as the Beemer ran away from them. :)
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    LaCrosse sure, but I doubt a 335d could "run away" from an IS350 on the tracks. Let's not pretending that it's a M3...

    By the way, it's "Bimmer" not "Beemer". ;)
  • jpstax1jpstax1 Member Posts: 197
    As much as it hurts me to say this (I hate Bimmers), "alltorque" might be right about the BMW 335, because an Edmunds review says it IS comparable to an M3:

    [quote] Driving Impressions
    There's no going wrong with either of the engines available in the 2007 BMW 3 Series. The standard, normally aspirated engine is a little light on low-end torque, but it moves the car around smartly and provides slightly better mileage. The new twin-turbo engine provides the kind of acceleration formerly associated with the high-performance M3, launching the 335i coupe and sedan to 60 mph in close to 5 seconds flat. No matter which model you choose, the 3 Series' world-class suspension, steering and brakes will provide hours of entertainment on twisty two-lane highways. Beyond simply feeling rock-solid when hustled around turns, this car communicates with the driver in a manner that inspires confidence no matter what kind of driving you're doing. At the same time, the 3 Series is an ideal long-distance cruiser, delivering both a comfortably controlled ride and a quiet cabin environment.[unquote]

    That implies it could very well "run away" from an IS350 on the tracks.

    Link to the 335 review: http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3series/2007/review.html

    Link to the IS350 review: http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/is350/2008/review.html
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    ""alltorque" might be right about the BMW 335"

    Except that "alltorque" was talking about the 335d, not the 335i. Big difference.

    "because an Edmunds review says it IS comparable to an M3"

    As has been pointed out, there's more to a sporting car than just how quickly it accelerates in a straight line. As has been discussed here, and elsewhere, the 335i doesn't hold a candle to any M3 of recent vintage (E46, E92).

    One thing positive I will say about the 335d - even it's quicker and better handling than a Buick... :blush:
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I believe you are referring to this:

    The new twin-turbo engine provides the kind of acceleration formerly associated with the high-performance M3, launching the 335i coupe and sedan to 60 mph in close to 5 seconds flat.

    But again, you are only focusing on the straightline acceleration. You do know that according to R&T IS350 can do 0-60 in 4.9 sec right? If that's the case I would say it does provide the kind of acceleration formerly associated with the high performance M3 as well.

    Nothing in that article indicates that the 335i can hang with the M3 on the track. I wouldn't be surprise to see a 335i beats an IS350 on the track but I don't believe it'll "run away" unless I see it myself.
  • jpstax1jpstax1 Member Posts: 197
    "One thing positive I will say about the 335d - even it's quicker and better handling than a Buick... "

    Better handling? How do you know that? Have you test driven a LaCrosse Super? It was a far better handling car than any of the other Buicks (LaCrosses and Lucernes) that I test drove. It was one of the main reasons I bought one.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Better handling? How do you know that? Have you test driven a LaCrosse Super?

    Please tell me you are joking. Let me ask you a question: have you ever driven a 3-series before?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "It was a far better handling car than any of the other Buicks (LaCrosses and Lucernes) that I test drove."

    High praise indeed! :P
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    OK, I can't stay away any longer.

    The LaCrosse Super is 3800 lbs, 198" long, has a 63/37 F/R weight distribution, a slushbox transmission, and FWD. Tell me what part of these specs says "sports car" to you?

    Here's a Motor Trend comparison from a couple years ago that includes the Pontiac Grand Prix GXP (the Buick's higher performance brother) against the Nissan G35 and Subaru STi. I'll spoil the ending and say that the Pontiac come in dead last in all but one (braking) performance measure. Now, take the already underwhelming Pontiac and add 200 lbs, a softer suspension, slower throttle response, and skinnier/slipperier tires, and you've got a Buick Lacrosse Super.

    At least, in a different article, Motor Trend said the Buick rides better than the Pontiac. I guess that's a plus for some people, right? :blush:

    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0506_front_rear_allwheel_drive/ind- - - ex.html
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    I know something about large, nose-heavy FWD cruisers because my wife drives (& loves) an '07 Lexus ES 350, which has been called, accurately enough, a Japanese Buick.

    As a highway cruiser, it's OK. Quiet, composed, with good seats (the best I've ever experienced in a Japanese car) & a superb stereo. (Her car has the optional Mark Levinson.)

    All in all, not a bad car - as long as it's traveling in a straight line. But it doesn't like curves & it hates (if a car could be said to hate) anything that remotely approximates spirited cornering. In short, there is nothing entertaining about driving it. With 270 hp driving the front wheels through a 6-speed slushbox, it's more than powerful enough. But the steering is numb & only those who regularly use the words "fun" & "torque steer" in the same sentence will enjoy driving it.

    I also know something about decent handling. My car is a BMW 330i with sport package & stick. Can you guess which car we take if the choice is up to me?

    When we do take the Lexus - either because we're going out with another couple & need the extra back seat space or because I'm planning to knock back a few - I'm perfectly happy to let my wife drive.

    In short, it's a fast car & it's a luxurious car. But it's not a luxury performance car.
  • sjaievesjaieve Member Posts: 252
    You actually bought the Buick :confuse:
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Yeah, and even after buying it, he continues telling himself that it's a "Sports Sedan". :p

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    In all fairness, the Buick LaCrosse is a very nice car. No, it's not a sport sedan, and no it doesn't belong in this discussion, but taken for what it is, it's a heck of a lot of car for the money.

    By all accounts (magazine reviews - I've never driven one), it handles well for what it is, solid as a rock and quiet as a tomb on the road, and comfortable and plush inside. And FWIW, Buick consistently ranks at the very top of JD Power and Consumer Reports quality and reliability surveys. Actually reminds me of the Honda Accord. Not directly, but the Accord is one of those cars that, while not a sports car, just feels right when you drive it. The controls, the feedback, the view, etc. It's just a car that feels good. Maybe the LaCrosse is like that? You've got to admit, it's nice to finally see an American car company making such great strides to improve quality and appeal. The LaCrosse and Enclave, the C6 Corvette and CTS, the G8, the Malibu - all nice cars with nice interiors, good looks, and solid performance and quality - they actually compete with imports on a level playing field.

    I won't buy an American car yet (the last burn still hurts), but in 5 years, at the rate they're going, maybe I'll have another look.

    Anyways, the majority has spoken and I think it's time for us to let the Buick thing rest. Buick enthusiasts from around the world (all 8 of them) can start a thread somewhere else. :blush:
  • jezmiajezmia Member Posts: 36
    Now sure if anyone reading this would already own a 2008 328i sedan automatic RWD, I was curious to know what was really the mileage per gallon in the city and highway, I know this depends varies from driver to driver, but wanted to get an idea. Also if you own a G35 I would love your inputs. thanks!
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    It's the weight issue.

    Regards,
    OW
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    If you look in the 3-Series group and the G35 group, you'll find Real World MPG discussions for each vehicle. Hope this helps!
  • jezmiajezmia Member Posts: 36
    Thank you very much for the information, I was able to find what I was looking for.

    thank you!
  • jpstax1jpstax1 Member Posts: 197
    These will be my final replies regarding the LaX Super (I promise):

    To "louiswei": [quote]Please tell me you are joking. Let me ask you a question: have you ever driven a 3-series before?[unquote] [Answer]Yes! I've driven my daughter's 2004 BMW 330i convertible a few times. I didn't like its bucket seats (they were very hard to get in and out of) and it lacked pickup. Nice radio though.

    To "jimbres": [quote]In short, it's a fast car & it's a luxurious car. But it's not a luxury performance car[unquote]. [Answer]Buick is calling the LaCrosse Super a luxury performance sedan, not me. I have no reason to doubt them.

    To "sjaiave": Yes, I actually bought the Buick.

    To "shipo": I don't keep telling myself it's a sport sedan. However, as I told "jimbres", Buick is calling the LaX Super a luxury performance sedan.

    To "fedlawman": Thanks for your objective thoughts about the car. However, the title of this discussion is "Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans", not sport sedans. So, in my opinion, the LaCrosse Super does belong in this discussion.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I didn't like its bucket seats

    Without it then it's not a "sports sedan" you know...

    it lacked pickup

    Maybe, then you should take a trip down to your local BMW dealer and try the new 335i. I would like to see you repeat that same statement with a straight face afterward.

    Nice radio though

    BMW was never, and still isn't, known for nice radios...

    Why am I not surprised to see Buick calling the LaX Super a "performance sedan" since Saturn has already called the Aura a "sports sedan"... :sick:
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    have you ever driven a 3-series before?[unquote] [Answer]Yes! I've driven my daughter's 2004 BMW 330i

    When the car came in 2004 was it lacking? I don't think so.

    So, in my opinion, the LaCrosse Super does belong in this discussion.

    It's a nose heavy, FWD car with a big engine. It is a highway cruiser not up to the same performance standards as other cars in this group. Performance is about turning the wheel also. It is not entry level luxury according to edmunds. It does not belong in this discussion. Buick can call it what ever it wants.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Why am I not surprised to see Buick calling the LaX Super a "performance sedan" since Saturn has already called the Aura a "sports sedan"... :sick:

    Then the accord is a sports sedan. :sick
  • sjaievesjaieve Member Posts: 252
    To "sjaiave": Yes, I actually bought the Buick.

    All the best with the Buick. Just dont try racing/outperforming the real sports sedans

    335i
    IS350
    Infiniti G35

    In that order :shades:
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The Buick Lacrosse V8 may be a performance sedan, as is the Chrysler 300C. However a performance sedan and a sports sedan are not quite the same thing. The 300C is a bit too big for a serious sports sedan, as is the BMW 7-series.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    And for any number of reasons I'd take a 300C over a LaCrosse Super any day of the week. Buick FTL.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I'll ride the bus if I can only choose between the LaX and 300C...
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    louiswei defending our beloved BMWs :P Thinking of trading in your IS350 anytime soon (nudging you with my elbow) ;)

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    ...lame compared to...

    image

    Regards,
    OW
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    I don't get it... LOL
Sign In or Register to comment.