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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    What year A4 cab? The 2005/2006 came with a 1.8T and a CVT in a car weighing an astounding 3600 lbs while only offering 170 hp/166 hp. The 3.0 with 220 hp/220 ft-lbs jumps to 4000 lbs.

    Comparing the a4 cab to the IS250 is sorta misleading and not representative of comparing an IS250 to an A3.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Here's the link: sjaieve, "High Performance Luxury Sedans" #1030, 6 Jun 2008 9:17 pm.
  • sjaievesjaieve Member Posts: 252
    Thanks Pat :)
  • yjbeachyjbeach Member Posts: 5
    Does anyone in here have a friend with an Audi. They have serious electircal problems and people that say that it is fixed are wrong. I can't say how the rest of the USA is but in the MD, DC, Va area that problem still happens. My friend just purchased an A4 Avant and with less than 10K miles the AC has already been repaired 3 times. His Dashboard is lit up like an Xmas Tree.

    My other friends with A4s' have had smiliar problems from years 03' until 07'.

    Go with the IS.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    One car, or even a couple of cars does not an indictment of an entire company make. I know lots of folks with Audis that haven't had a single electrical problem.
  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    Have three close friends with Audi's. An A8 3.0TDi, (with a gazillion toys fitted at the factory), an A3 2.0 TDi and an RS4 Avant. First two are 2 and 3 years old respectively. The A3 has 78k miles on it without any glitches, (he's trading it next Jan for an Audi TT TDi 'cos he heading for second childhood. The A8 has around 60k miles and has only suffered one glitch - two weeks ago the Audi satnav decided to stop working for 10 minutes whilst driving around the Paris Peripherique, (great place to lose satnav), but came back of its own accord. The RS4 is only 6 months old and no hiccups but same friend also has a Ferrari F355 which seems to go wrong on just about every trip...............to the extent that he's gonna sell it as he thinks the RS4 is a far better-built car, damn near as fast, far more useable and it doesn't attract the wrong sort of attention from the boy-racers or constabulary, (we have a couple of Subaru Imprezza WRX police cars locally which do send out a certain Clint Eatwood-esque message. "Ya feelin' lucky, punk?" or perhaps, "Make my day". Very entertaining though.

    Other folk I know who've had Audi's swear by them - not at them. You've either got a :lemon: or folks who don't know what they're doing with the diagnostics etc.

    On the other hand I have a neighbour with a newish Mercedes C-class and he's either having an affaire with the Receptionist at the local Mercedes dealer or the car really is a dog. Just to balance that a near neighbour has one of the old, squarish, M-B S500's...........the one that just needs a big gun on the roof to complete the Main Battle Tank image, (it's even painted dark green metallic), and with 200k miles up it just keeps going but does have a drinking problem which is starting to hurt with gasoline here, (UK), at the equiv of $9+ per US Gallon. :cry:

    As with all things electro-mechanical there are great examples and not-so-good ones. Isn't that part of the fun ? ;)

    Apologies for the long-winded response. Blame old age. Mine.
  • sjaievesjaieve Member Posts: 252
    If its coming down to a choice btwn IS250 & A4 2l turbo, I would also look at the TSX. You may lose AWD or RWD but its a pretty modern car which perfoms well and can be had at $32k fully loaded. I am not even into Acura's but the new TSX has quite a bit to offer
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I've driven all three, and in spite of the fact that I value RWD over any other drivetrain, I'd rank the cars as follows:

    1 - Audi A3 2.0T 6-Speed -- By far the most enjoyable the three to drive, and has the most rear seat space and the most utility as well given the mini-station wagon configuration.

    2 - Acura TSX 6-Speed -- Fun to drive, lots of goodies (that I don't necessarily care about), and reasonable space in the back seat.

    3 - Lexus IS250 RWD 6-Speed -- Extremely boring to drive with no "feel" of what's going on with the mechanicals or down on the road. This car also suffers from an anemic engine (at least until you wind it up even higher than the Acura's already high strung mill) and a back seat that is all but laughable. In every respect, this car is a very distant third of the three.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • darrinzramzdarrinzramz Member Posts: 24
    Hi need some answers if possible,I have a G35 sedan 2004,I've been using 87 octane in my car w/no problems at all.Seems to me when gas gauge reads full,I watch the gas gauge over the course of the week,and I notice it stays up near-full for the 1st 85-100 miles I put on the car,then all of the sudden the gas gauge seems to go down quite quickly from there.I'm medium on the gas on occasion I will get on it medium to slightly hard,it seems I'm only getting 15.6mi/gal,does that seem a bit much or not!!!????.Anyways I've change the plugs to a performance plug also I installed a K&N filter,there is no gas leaks what so ever!!!,any suggestions would be greatly appreciated,I also do use my cruise contol also,do mostly city driving though, not alot of stop and go,thanks Darrin Lynch :(
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    A few points:

    1) Over the decades I've had dozens of cars that were from Asia, North America and Europe, and every one of them has exhibited the same gas gauge characteristics as your car (i.e. the needle is fairly stable for say 100 miles following a fill-up, and then it drops like a rock). This is totally normal as the level of fuel when "full" is typically above the top measurement range of the gauge sensor.

    2) IIRC, Infiniti recommends "Premium" gasoline for your 2004 G35 engine (an engine well known for its poor fuel economy by the way), you should check your Owners Manual to be sure. Assuming that's the case, by running regular you are forcing the engine management system to retard the ignition timing to keep the engine from blowing itself to bits because of the low grade fuel you're feeding it. In turn, retarded ignition timing will further reduce the already marginal fuel economy of your engine.

    3) Given how modern engine management systems work, it is physically impossible for a K&N filter to improve fuel economy. In fact, there is a fair amount of empirical evidence that suggests this type of a filter can reduce your economy.

    4) Based upon the reports of other owners of your car, 15.6 mpg is not too far out of line for "mostly city driving".

    Sorry I couldn't be more helpful. :(

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    The nissan/infiniti engine is one of the really solid engines...it's still the base for the current nissan/infiniti engines. It is not the most thrify on gas, neither is it the worst. It is possible that not using high test is effecting your mileage, but I've tried 93 octane and 87 octane in my 06 M35 and I've seen no difference in MPG or pep. A larger factor is ethanol in your gasoline (unavoidable today) which gives you less mpg then 100% gasoline. I doubt that octane is causing any problem in this engine however you can try three tanks of high test and see if you see any significant difference.

    Fuel guage is what it is...I think it was the old BMW where they made the guage for the last 1/4 tank of gas almost 3/4 of the guage. It's rare that it matters how full the tank is when it shows full...but it really does matter when you're down to 1/8 a tank.

    High performance plugs and "high efficiency" air cleaners do almost nothing in a modern engine. Actually, most all additives also do nothing, in fact most car makers recommend against using ANY additives in the car.

    If you aren't driving aggressively, then about the only thing you can do that will really improve mileage is to turn off the A/C.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I have the BMW 330xi and have religiously used premium gas as spec.

    I get consistent 22 mpg tank to tank. Why you would use low octane on a higher performance engine is foreign to me.

    My car weighs 3,700 lbs and still gets acceptable gas mileage on standard A/S tires because each month I regulate tire pressure and rotate the tires each 5K miles.

    Tires last longer, wear even and get the best efficiency as a result.

    It doesn't take much to get the specified MPG rating for your car if you are aware of the small details.

    Regards,
    OW
  • 1nickatnite11nickatnite1 Member Posts: 16
    I don't know about 04 g35s but with the current ones you cannot rotate the tires. 15.6 mpg does sound low but if it is mostly city driving and since you admit to driving with a "medium to heavy" foot it is not that surprising. Best gadget I've heard of for saving gas is the fuel "mizer?" (sorry not sure about the spelling) supposedly it will change your driving habits and increase your mileage up to 20%, hope this helps.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    It takes little effort to get better than the listed EPA numbers too. ;)
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I read the post you replied to -- and I thought the number of posts pertaining to "false economy" would have somehow not been missed by this owner. I figured he must actually WANT to get poorer mileage AND poorer performance.

    The inside of the filler door, the manual, the dealer techs, the salespeople, this board and a few other places have repeatedly explained about the compensation for lower grade fuel that these engines make -- and, of course, the way that it is handled is as you say shipo.

    I leave for a few months and then come back for a look see and we're still talking about the same stuff. I find the search facility works just fine -- why would the car require premium fuel, tell you it requires premium fuel and then surprise you when it runs at less than its most efficient?

    Wonder if there is a "glossary" somewhere here that would be like an FAQ page for folks -- sort of like:

    Fuel requirements Regular, MidGrade & Premium

    Oversteer

    Understeer

    Horsepower vs Torque: What we buy versus what we say we buy

    Drive Bias: front, rear, neutral, all

    Naturally aspirated, super charged, turbo charged, twin charged

    And so on. . .

    "Hey doc, it hurts when I do this. . ."

    Doc: "Well then, don't do that. . ."
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    My 2009 A4 has a build date of week 27. When it arrives several weeks later, it will be my 28th (or 27th or 29th) Audi. I have NEVER had an electrical problem -- other than a power window motor some time ago. I have never had an engine problem, never a transmission problem (other than the crappy tip-lag issue in the 5 speed auto -- and that was a software issue NOT a defect or hardware problem.)

    I MAY have had a headlight or tail light burn out LAST CENTURY. I also had brake rotor warping issues in my 2001 A6.

    My experience with over 2 dozen Audis is, statistically, probably not significant, but as an anecdote, it bears writing here perhaps to balance the "Audi still has problems. . ." Overall, I have no evidence that Audi still has problems. My '05 A6, soon to be gone, will be missed. In so many ways it is still ahead, by years, of the newest CTS -- if you could test drive these two cars back to back, the content and performance of the C6/A6 vs the CTS demonstrates this point. The amount of trouble with dozens of Audis has NOT been zero. It just has never been electrical as your post suggests.

    Another corner heard from.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Here is some further indication underscoring your reality.

    link title

    Regards,
    OW
  • loucopitsloucopits Member Posts: 103
    By "mizer" I assume that is another word for "spouse".I.E. Slow down. Back off. Easy. etc.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    You forgot to finish your little anecdote with the Doctor:

    "Hey doc, it hurts when I do this. . ."

    Doc: "Well then, don't do that. . .that will be $85.00...please make an appointment for next Wednesday for a followup"

    THAT is more realistic...:):):):):)
  • cheezhedcheezhed Member Posts: 44
    You forgot to finish your little anecdote with the Doctor:

    "Hey doc, it hurts when I do this. . ."

    Doc: "Well then, don't do that. . .that will be $85.00...please make an appointment for next Wednesday for a followup"

    THAT is more realistic...:):):):):)

    Or, you could substitute the plumber, then say, "that will be $125" (LOL)
  • loucopitsloucopits Member Posts: 103
    Me to lawyer: "Is it true that you charge $75 just to answer a simple question?"

    Lawyer to me: "Yes I do. That will be $75."
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,731
    Ditto-ish for my '05 TL. Premium gas, 5 slushy speeds, ~40miles/day commute mix of local/highway driving = 23mpg consistenty.

    Tires rotated every 6k miles, but original Bridgestones gone at 33k miles, now on Toyo Versados (with Dunlop WinterSports in the, well, winter...). Regular pressure checks.

    Yet I still want an XK. But, the Evil Wife wants a three season room. Gee, wonder who'll win. "Whatever Lola wants, Lola gets!:" Name that tune (well, show/movie...).

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Damn Yankees/Kinky Boots.

    XKR...Fughedaboudit for now...

    Regards,
    OW
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,504
    Welcome back, Mark. We've (or at least I've) missed you.

    Let us know on this or some other board what's been going on, if you're that way inclined.

    Going from the longest-post maven to missing-in-action is a jolt to some of us.

    Either way, hope you enjoy your new A4. The A3 turned out to be my runner-up to the car I finally ended up with this time, the Acura TSX. I appear to have recovered from my RWD disease.

    Good to hear from you.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,731
    "Damn Yankees"

    Well done, Shoeless O! ;)

    Yeah, I'm fuhgedinaboutit for now... :sick:

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    With rival BMW warming up to the idea of turbocharging in a big way, Mercedes-Benz is poised to embrace the technology across its entire line. “We will go turbocharging across the board on gasoline engines,” R&D boss Dr. Thomas Weber told Leftlane in an interview last week. “Even the next A-Class generation will get a turbo engine.” But that’s not all — we questioned Weber on a variety of issues, and got some very interesting responses.

    The C will need new chassis pieces to handle this!

    Here is the link for more.

    link title

    Regards,
    OW
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    I like that Post 11041...why didn't I think of that???
  • loucopitsloucopits Member Posts: 103
    Or this one:

    Dr. - your X-Ray shows that you need major surgery.

    Guy - How much will it cost?

    Dr. - $10,000

    Guy - I don't have that kind of money.

    Dr. - OK, for $1,000 I'll touch up the X-Rays
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    BMW is about to get trumped...

    With as much horsepower as the coupe and 200 less pounds to carry around, a G37 sedan could make a compelling case for itself, especially against it's quicker main rival, the BMW 335i. Bonus's would be, quicker throttle response, smoother operation, and better fuel economy as well with the VVEL system.

    Is Infinity loosing weight first???

    All without Turbos???

    Let's talk!

    Regards,
    OW
  • joestylesjoestyles Member Posts: 2
    Have got problems with the fuse blowing all the time for my instrument display.
    Every time i switch my lights on the fuse blows,not only that i've noticed that i dont have any brake lights neither.All the bulbs have been checked & changed,& it's now doing my head in.lol.Am new to Beemers so don't know much about them really.Is this a common fault??? Could do with some help solving the problem. :(
  • ferozferoz Member Posts: 14
    I recently drove some of this cars and was very well impressed. I don´t know the series well so I have a few questions:

    1). On 2000- 2004 models are there regular standard shifts in all models years?

    2). On the secuential shift, can it also operate as automatic or dose it always have to work as semi auto? If so how dose BMW expect a valet parking to take the car? the shifter takes time and knowledge to be driven well.

    3). On what model year did BMW introduce the secuantial shifter for 3 series
    coupes?

    4). What dose the "sport" button do on the 2003 secuential shifter 330 coupe?

    5). If this transmission (secuential) reliable? Is it delicate.

    6). On all BMWs are the F1 series faster than the same engine on luxury trim? Are the F1 engines different?

    Thanks!
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Maybe the 1 with a turbo 4 cylinder will come to the US and A? If VW's turbo 4 can make nearly 300 hp, there's no reason BMW can't follow suit. RWD, lighter nose...hope, hope...
  • sanjo1sanjo1 Member Posts: 4
    does anybody know what part or what kind of tunning they did to the 2004 acura tl that makes it 270 horse power and 2005-08 only has 258.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Same power - just tighter SAE standards.
  • sanjo1sanjo1 Member Posts: 4
    what does SAE stand for
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    SAE originally stood for Society of Automobile Engineers, its scope has expanded a bit since then:

    http://www.sae.org/about/general/history/

    Best regards,
    Shipo
  • sanjo1sanjo1 Member Posts: 4
    im trying to reverse the tighter SAE standards so i can increse the horsepower back to 270 bhp like the 2004 tl
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    The horsepower is the same. The way of measuring it has changed, that's all.
  • sanjo1sanjo1 Member Posts: 4
    ok thanks alot. ive been trying to figure it out for the longest.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    A reporter is looking to talk with consumers who have considered purchasing a luxury car in the past, but would not do so currently because of the economy, or consumers who have traded-in their luxury vehicle. Please send your email address and phone number to ctalati@edmunds.com by Friday, February 6, 2008.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    Was hoping to get some advice on my search. Looking to spend no more than 22k on a used entry level luxury sedan. No more than say 40-50k miles. This would be my commute to work car, other car is a Honda CRV for family duty but this needs to be able to handle a car seat as a "plan b". My personal priority list would look something like:

    1. Quiet smooth ride. Dampen road noise.

    2. Luxury cabin and modern amenities. i.e. soft leather, no cheap materials and someplace to plug my ipod in.

    3. Power and performance. Doesnt have to smoke everyone on the road or corner on rails but when I need to pass it should respond impressively.

    4. Back seat capable of fitting a car seat and an adult if needed.

    5. Drivable in bad weather. I wont say absolutely no rear wheel drive but I have previously owned an Infiniti G-35 coupe and it was nearly useless in even a light snowfall and not good in the rain.

    6. Sporty style. This is subjective obviously :)

    So. I am thinking:

    2006 BMW 325xi or a 2006 Acura TL

    Other candidates are the Audi A4/A6, Volvo S60 or Mercedes C class.

    Any input would be welcome including options like leasing or any tips on how to get the most for my money.
  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    The BMW would certainly do your jobs but the 3-series is hardly "Luxury". A4 is cramped in the back and the C Class can be very variable on built quality/reliability. No idea about the Acura, we simply don't see them in Europe.

    A6 or S60 would be my choice..............but I have to declare a bias as an S60 owner, (and a diesel at that). Best seats in the business, nice lines, very well built and typically excellent Swedish safety, (incl child seats). Between the S60 and an A6 would be a hard choice for me but the slightly more distinctive lines of the Volvo would probably win me over - again - after 2 years of enjoyable, comfortable, utterly reliable driving.

    $22k would buy you an '07 or possibly '08 S60 SE Lux here in U.K. and enough change for a good weekend away...........ditto for an S80 which is even nicer.

    Ah, but the iPod plug-in would be an after-market fit; but hardly a deal breaker.
  • pv2pv2 Member Posts: 37
    Someone I know told me last week she picked up a 2006 Acura TL with only 12k miles on it for $22k. Nice deal and nice car. I had a 2003 CLS and now have a 2007 TLS. My TL has an iPod input jack in the center console, not sure if an older model would. Both my TL and CL were fine in light to moderate snow as opposed to the 2 BMW 328Ci's I had. They needed separate winter tires to get through northeast winters. Good luck!
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    Thanks for the tips. I think my short list will be the BMW, TL and Volvo. I suppose I could always get snow tires like you mentioned for a RWD car. Hmm.

    The BMW seems to fit the bill in terms of fun to drive and status. Light on luxury and amenities, heavy on price tag and a lot of people have one.

    The TL sounds like it has a lot of features and luxury, but I'm not sold on the style. Although I have to see one in person to say for sure. Red with Tan interior sounds nice. We will see.

    The Volvo is the dark horse. Good value, safe, distinctive, reliable and more affordable. Again though I'm not sold on the look or performance reviews I read. Perhaps again if I see one in person in a color and trim I like and test drive it, that will come out ahead.

    And now I'm seeing the TSX is considered luxury as well. Another for my short list?
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,498
    The BMW seems to fit the bill in terms of fun to drive and status. Light on luxury and amenities, heavy on price tag and a lot of people have one.

    Pretty much, called right on.

    The TL sounds like it has a lot of features and luxury, but I'm not sold on the style. Although I have to see one in person to say for sure. Red with Tan interior sounds nice. We will see.

    Nice car, but weird looking, kind of a knight in armor without the knight.

    The Volvo is the dark horse. Good value, safe, distinctive, reliable and more affordable. Again though I'm not sold on the look or performance reviews I read. Perhaps again if I see one in person in a color and trim I like and test drive it, that will come out ahead.

    A nice looking and safe car but somewhat underpowered with fair interiors and gas mileage.

    IMHO
  • bobhoopsbobhoops Member Posts: 7
    I bought a '06 TL in late October for $21K with 23k miles. It is everything you want except having an IPOD jack. I would recommend it as your commuter car as it will be very reliable, it has very good power, and I think it looks great and a great back seat.
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    Thanks Bobhoops that's a good endorsement, appreciated. Can you tell me if it's a quiet smooth ride on the highway? Really sounds like a contender for me.

    Well I saw a white, late model TL in the parking lot today. I am guessing it was at least an 06 but possibly as new as a 09. Sharp car, not what I would call distinctive or a head turner, but very nice. Really though none of the cars I am looking at are "head turners".

    TL makes my short list. BMW does as well. Volvo I will be checking the S60's and S80's.

    Audi I am eliminating because of reliability concerns, which may or may not be justified but I've just heard it too much and I need to eliminate something. Too bad too because the A6 is a sharp car. Benz I am eliminating for now, that will be my gift to myself as a next car perhaps in 5-7 years when I can go beyond the C class. Lexus doesnt seem to have anything I like within my price range. Cadillac... not feeling it. Only other car I'll likely check out is the TSX, not sure what the distinction is between that and the TL but it seems to get very good reviews.
  • darrinzramzdarrinzramz Member Posts: 24
    WOW!!!,did you drive the Infiniti G35 sedan!!???,I have one and it drives like a dream on the hwy!!!(I think it does)I believe it's better than the Acura's,plus you get more power!!,just thought I add my opinion,they are alot cheaper than the BMW's w/more power seating in the back is good for adults & kids :)
  • fobulousfobulous Member Posts: 2
    I checked on CR and noticed that 2005 is the year that 325i has the highest rating.. why is that? I'm looking to get a 2005 or 2006 325i.. what are your experiences in these vehicles? My wife is currently driving the 2005 BMW X5 3.0 and we love it!

    It is also true that the best way to buy the used 325i is through a dealer that offers these as CPO?

    Thanks all!!
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    If you can get your choice of one of the cars on your list with the CPO designation -- from the factory -- I would urge you to consider doing so, as the cars on your list are breathtakingly expensive to repair without some kind of a warranty program.

    I traded in my 2005 Audi A6 (fully loaded and with the V6) and it had 60k virtually trouble free miles on it. Having said that, I would ONLY acquire one (of any of these mfgr's kids) with the CPO designation.

    PS don't think you will use snow tires on an RWD car and enjoy it as much as an AWD car with all seasons, in most places, that is.
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