Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

slance66 · August 2010

The cars they choose to review are annoying. Almost always a manual transmission, which few Americans buy, almost always the most powerful, top of the line car, again usually a low volume car. Like the CTS-V for example. Do they sell any? I'll see BME 550 and 535 reviews, but none for the much more popular 528. Same with the 335 and 328. They need to test the cars most people will buy, equipped in the way most people will buy them. But instead they can't resist the joy-ride in the more exclusive vehicle. If an automatic makes it into a test, they bash it, b/c of the auto.

rayainsw · August 2010

A few assertions in posts 11286 & 11287 that Id like to comment on here.

86 - I read lots of comparisons. I find the test results of use in several ways. Including:

I do not [ ever ] intentionally even approach maximum lateral acceleration limits on any public road. I leave a comfortable margin. But the handling tests that the various publications conduct allow me to judge & compare how high those limits are, and how the vehicle behaves at or near those limits  in case I ever do need to approach them, due to unforeseen events.

Though I very rarely do 0  60, I do 40  65 regularly, in highway merge situations, and just for fun. And I have developed a reasonably well calibrated butt dyno over the years. And I know what published numbers translate to enjoyable acceleration ability  for me - and what will not make the cut.

87  Consumer Reports [ often ] and Motor Trend and Edmunds [ occasionally ] test the lower level variants. My sense is that the other major publications typically focus on the higher performance versions, as that is what the readers of R&T and C+D seem most interested in.

I was quite interested to see the Short Take on the C+D web site of the 335iS with DCT automatic transmission  as this exact configuration is one of 2 contenders on the short list for my hard earned dollars, next year.

Just my 0.02 gallons worth.

- Ray
No interest in driving my cars on any race track . . .

roadburner · August 2010

They need to test the cars most people will buy, equipped in the way most people will buy them. But instead they can't resist the joy-ride in the more exclusive vehicle. If an automatic makes it into a test, they bash it, b/c of the auto.

Yeah, that would make for an exciting read. Kind of like buying a Home Theater magazine that only reviews Bose or Samsung HTIBs...

And yes, I DO take my cars to the track...

ivan_99 · August 2010

" Is anyone really going to be going 0-60 in 5 seconds on the highway?"

Everyday

or mid 5's

"Is anyone doing 0.84g in a sloam with their cars?"

If I remember to take off the cursed traction control in my IS350 :mad: ...what's wrong with a little slide now and then

I save the leisurely drive when I have all the kids in the mini-van :shades:

roadburner · August 2010

Everyday or mid 5's

Me too!

fedlawman · August 2010

"Kind of like buying a Home Theater magazine that only reviews Bose or Samsung HTIBs..."

Perfect analogy!

Seriously though, I do think they should test the automatic AWD sedans once in while. But to make the tests viable, they need to modify the parameters a little.

Instead of lateral grip, they should measure ability to weave between shopping carts strewn about an Old Navy parking lot.

Instead of comparing acceleration, they should measure which car is easiest to check stock quotes on your iPhone while merging on the freeway.

Instead of testing 70-0 braking, they should test which car has the smallest stains on the floormats when you slam on the brake pedal while sipping a double non-fat mocha latte.

fedlawman · August 2010

BTW, high 5's here...

sweendogy · August 2010

LAWMAN,
Dont you drive a tsx= so your closer to 9 then high 5's.joking .haha...

for my money 35-42k you can't get a better deal then 330 hp G.. navi avail AWD manual or auto, coupe or sedan with everything the others provide -- a car that car run mid 5's and is more then just a FWD sports wantabe. Sure BMW might be a little swifter at points or better in the turns but its 10k more money plus you dont have to worry about someone keying your car. -- this chat should be shut down --its the best car in its class dollar for dollar by far.. If someone has a better rig for under 43k with the G's stats please post.. 328's lexus 250s, Tls, sorry

nyccarguy · August 2010

He actually USED to drive a TSX. He sold it and bought an E30 M3 (no further explaination needed).

The chat is ENTRY LEVEL LUXURY PERFORMANCE SEDANS (not for the Money).

I think it is a fantastic category. Each car is different in its own way. Each car is better in its own way. Different things matter to different people as far as entry level luxury performance sedans go. I'd be happy with most of them.

Yes BMWs do get pricey if you load them up with lots of goodies, but the chassis dynamics & balance of a 3 series (even a 328i) make it WELL WORTH the price of admission. Not only does a 328i handle extremely well, but it also rides comfortably. Tremendous brakes & wonderful steering are 3 series hallmarks. The 3 is a great car for 1 person or if it is a 2nd car, I think personally the E90 sedan is on the small side. There are other costs to consider besides the price paid for the car. BMW includes scheduled maintenance. Check out the prices of CPO 3 series vs. a CPO G. If you've got the time, European Delivery is available for the BMW & now you're talking 335i car for 328i price. The 3 also gets decent fuel economy. 6 Speed stick availability is a BIG PLUS for me.

I have a terriffic service advisor at BMW that treats my family and I like royalty. "What's that Bradd, your Dad drove over an 2x4 in the snow that busted his radiator on his X5 and he's stopped in the middle of the bridge in a snowstorm? He's OK? Good. Are the dogs with him? You're in the towtruck?" There were no service appointments available for 4 days and no loaner cars available for at least a week and a half. I drove out of the dealership in an hour with a loaner car which they let me keep for the 3 & a half weeks my Dad's truck was being fixed.

I agree with you that for the money, the G37 is very hard to beat. I've been on Infiniti's "build your own" site and my ideal G37S 6 Speed has an MSRP of $39K and change. You can buy the car for what, $36K? I've driven a G37X before. I love the accleration. The car is extremely well balanced & feels like it turns on an axis. The VQ isn't nearly as smooth as the BMW I6 & it guzzles gas (even with a 7 speed automatic). 6 Speed stick availability is a plus for me.

The A4 is a nice car too. Very roomy compared to the 3 & the G. Rides smooth. Brakes don't have the bite of the 3 or the G. Amazingly finished interior, gorgeous materials. A very sharp looking car with the S Line Sports Package. Turbo With 258 lb ft torque & great highway mileage. Even though all the others offer AWD, they offer it because of QUATTRO. My Mom had an '02 A6 and I'm nowhere near impressed with Audi's customer service.

I actually think the IS is a handsomely styled car. LEXUS came so close with the 1st generation IS, that I was disapointed with the second gen version. It has aged well though. The IS350's accleration rivals that of the G37 & 335i. The interior is well finished, beautiful, and very comfortable. The back seat is about as useful as my Prelude's. They do offer some type of Sports Package that supposedly makes the handling razor sharp. There is something to be said about LEXUS reliability too. The IS250's 204 hp V6 is laughable at this price point. Not only is it snail slow, but doesn't get that good gas mileage. 6 speed stick only available on the IS250. Brakes are instant on with ZERO linear feel, but they do stop the car now. I felt the handling to be disconnected.

Say what you want about the TL SH AWD, but it is the only one of these cars that is real sized. Gonna go out with another couple? The other 3 people will vote Acura every day of the week and twice on Sunday. It has a big trunk too. Available 6 speed stick w/ SH AWD makes it very competitive in this segment. Under all the glitz and glamour, it is still a Honda. A big plus for me.

Personally, I've never been a big fan of the C-Class. SO if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. It is a good looking car.

That new Volvo S60 has been getting good reviews (except from Car & Driver).

I think those are the major players.

billyperks2 · August 2010

"Say what you want about the TL SH AWD, but it is the only one of these cars that is real sized. Gonna go out with another couple? The other 3 people will vote Acura every day of the week and twice on Sunday. It has a big trunk too. Available 6 speed stick w/ SH AWD makes it very competitive in this segment. Under all the glitz and glamour, it is still a Honda. A big plus for me"

AMEN!!!!!!!

ivan_99 · August 2010

"If someone has a better rig for under 43k with the G's stats please post.. 328's lexus 250s, Tls, sorry"

I'd choose a CC VR6 AWD --- but you'd loose a bit on the acceleration :surprise: but everything else I'd rank higher...Actually I really liked the 2.0T...different category...

I owned the G35 when first released...and i liked it; but now (8 years later) after weighing all things the G37 would be on my lower end; of course all vehicles mentioned in this category are nice (nothing really to complain about).

nyccarguy
"The IS350's accleration rivals that of the G37 & 335i. "

After driving an IS350 for a couple years now I can say it isn't as fast as a G37 or 335i. In an all-out race maybe.

But the torque is really lacking below 4000 or so. The 335i felt like a rocket at any rpm...the G felt strong...but i had the sense that something was going to break in the upper RPM range.

nyccarguy · August 2010

Hmmm - a VW CC 3.6 4Motion? Never thought of that one. Everything I've read says the 2.0T w/ 6 speed stick is the CC to get. I would think that to be a very heavy vehicle with (280 hp?) not enough motivation.

What made you switch from the old G35 to the IS350? What made you choose the IS350? Would you buy another one?

sweendogy · August 2010

HAVE TO AGREE THE VW CC?? for the money you can acually save 3-5k and just get the basic passat..CC maybe a good looking car but its no proformance sedan and it gets real pricy quickly seats only 4 and for the performance its far behind everything in its class.. plus your driving a VW and not a lux brand. -- I would also put the TL into this class a nice car but not a true performer unless you get a 6speed (have not come across one owner here on edmunds).

For those who talk about BMW and its maintainance program..sure its great but really -- i have a 3 year old G with 23k miles on its- -OIL changes and TIre rotations are all that are needed, airfilters and the like-- we are not talking about major service-- I paid 36.5K for a fully loaded G-- the comp a 335 would have cost me over 50k - - I will take my 15k and pay out of pocket any day for service.

Billy take a look at this link-- yes im not the only one who sees buick as a real competitor to acura--(link not allowed on acura TL lovefest chat)

http://forums.motortrend.com/70/8084497/the-general-forum/2010-buick-lacrosse-vs- - - -2010-acura-tl/index.html

nyccarguy · August 2010

But sometimes price drives your decision more than anything else.

I've always dreamed of that perfect BMW (SP/6SPD/Heated Seats) sitting on a dealer's lot with a drop dead, can't pass it up price attached to it.

I saw an ad in the paper today for a very cheap lease on a C300 with an MSRP of only $35,570 that has a 6 Speed Stick & heated seats, RWD, but not much else. I think if I needed a car right now and could lease, I'd go down there and see how much I can steal the car from them for. Every MB sedan I see around here is 4Matic AWD.

kfdmed · August 2010

BMW's are butt ugly, ride harsh, and cost a boat load of money to maintain/service (after the free stuff). Their interiors are from the '90's and there exterior design is Korean looking cheap. I would take a TL and pocket the 10 -15k in a heartbeat. The RWD/FWD debate is overrated much like the manual/auto trans debate.
Yes I know how to shift gears and work a clutch. Yes I have driven rear wheel cars. No, I am not sixteen anymore and don't care to drive like I am on the autobahn.

The TL/AWD, CTS/4, and G37X are the best choices. The Germans are just ugly/boring and expensive. Why Lexus is on the right I don't know.

tlong · August 2010

Don't know how you can call that post credible when you talk about butt ugly but then like the new TL.

And I'm a TL owner (2005!).

I agree the Bangle BMWs were a styling step backwards. Not real pretty.

ivan_99 · August 2010

"I would think that to be a very heavy vehicle with (280 hp?) not enough motivation"

Yeah...I think that motor has been around for 5 years or so; time to upgrade i think. But still not too far behind

I thought about a CC 2.0T and chipping it...making a fun project car. But when they first came out you couldn't get the Nav system (really nice) with a manual. Their auto wasn't the DSG...just a regular 6spd (plus my wife was giving me a hard time about a 4 seater)

I had a few cars between the old G35 and IS350 (I have a problem).

I did a CPO for the IS350. I was looking at CPO'd 335's...coupe. I was scared off by the maintenance stories (the IS has not been perfect...even requiring a tow truck--boost).

I thought the BMW was gorgeous, but didn't care for the interior. The Lexus CPO was better than the BMW and one of the 335's I drove was only auto (i know like the IS

). The manual 335 i drove was a base...again the interior threw me off. Materials and quality were good, it just didn't look right to me (or not as good as others...although i'm tiring of the IS interior...that problem i have) .

An A5 would have been my first choice, but the price got too high (the S5 was a dream to drive---felt like James Bond

). The new A4 wasn't out yet...love the recent Audi's. I really liked the CTS as well; it just didn't feel as good as the others The new MB C was out, but I couldn't find a price similar to the IS's CPO (they were too new) -- it drove similar to the IS.

I probably wouldn't buy another IS today. I get very annoyed by Auto trannies; they never do what i want them to. I can rant even further about the shiftable auto trannies like the IS and CTS (etc)...shift...wait...wait...wait...wait...gear change (if you ever see a grown man screaming at the shift leaver...that is me

) BTW -- Like the DSG

I can't drive the IS in 'normal' mode...i have to leave it in 'power' mode. This alters the throttle response (makes it shift less smooth -- sometimes jerky ). In normal mode I feel like i'm going to loose my mind; think driving a Corolla in the sand.

The traction control comes on WAY too early (this is an 06); I believe they altered it for other years. You can disable the traction control...through an esoteric sequence of brake and parking brake taps...at every startup.

The thing I like the least is the low torque at normal driving speeds. If you squeeze the pedal too slow you're left wondering if something is wrong. You have to learn to tap it just right to get a one or two down-shift.

If you keep the pedal down and past 4K the thing flys; but at this point you're getting into triple digits and you'll need a good layer and a lenient Judge...mommy why's daddy in jail...

During my test drives i was a maniac so I didn't notice the little nuances in 'normal' driving; which I suppose we all have to do at some point

But it's an ok car...I like it...looks nice, interior is fine. Goes fast when I need to. My average mileage is 22ish which i'm content with.

Think my next car will have to be a coupe...or a tunned up turbo something...or both

cdnpinhead · August 2010

Thanks for that post.

Lots of interesting comments & insights. I've looked at several of these cars over the years, but don't change up very often myself.

If I had to replace my TSX today, it would probably be with a VW TDI w/ a manual transmission -- hopefully the VW reliability issues have been tamed, at least for your sake.

kfdmed · August 2010

BMW's overall are not butt ugly. The rear end styling is awful. The rest is pretty good.

I have stated this before that I like the TL's look. I think it gets a bad rap.

As far as looks goes I rate them CTS, TL, G37, 3 series, A4, IS250/350.

nyccarguy · August 2010

great post! Thanks for the detailed info.

What did you have between the 2 cars? It seems like you're dissatisfied with the Lexus, so why hold on to it? Unless it is a financial reason.

(if you ever see a grown man screaming at the shift leaver... - This is one of the funniest things I've ever read on town hall!

the IS has not been perfect...even requiring a tow truck--boost). . Funny, my wife's former 2007 BMW X3 only saw the back of a tow truck once, when she swerved to avoid some debris in the road, hit a curb, and popped her 2 left tires as well as bent one rim (about 2000 miles before we had to tuen the truck in

ivan_99 · August 2010

What did you have between the 2 cars? It seems like you're dissatisfied with the Lexus, so why hold on to it? Unless it is a financial reason.

I had a 2003 accord -- 4 cyl 5 speed (I run the gamut from mid-end to affordable low end...); funny thing is I made *sure* with my wife that the manual was fine...took about 3-4 months...then after we got it..."I can't believe I have to use the clutch with my bad knees" :confuse: We already had a mini van...so I thought -- why do i need another family car...and it went

Then it was a Mazda 3i 5speed sedan. Great car, one of my favorite...it was like the whole body was carved out of one piece--very solid and composed. I took a test drive, didn't look in the trunk or try the stereo or sit in the back seat...was very impressed (sport package) and said "I'll take it". Fun car (more than my IS)...but the engine was lacking (didn't care for the hatch which is where the 3SPEED was limited to) and it was too buzzy on the highway (really needed a 6 speed).

Then it was an Infiniti Q45. V8 was very nice...but way too quiet. Car wallowed a bit too much. It was luxurious, but I quickly felt like an old man. When I had this I was at a VW dealership with a co-worker and the salesman convinced me to take a test drive (he didn't have to try hard) . I took a VW Fahrenheit GTI and loved the burble sound of the engine compared to my quiet V8.

I still would have kept the Q45 longer except I had an encounter with a deer...nobody tells you the air bag could rip all the hairs off your arms with friction...think wax scene from 40 year old virgin...

The longest I've kept a car (other than our min-van) is almost 3 years...a 99 1/2 Audi A6; 10 years later and i still think the interior is one of the best out there.

I'll probably keep the IS longer...it's a CPO which isn't transferable. So you end up paying a few $k more than 'normal' when you purchase it. I'm tired of being 'upside down' when trading in so i figure I picked it for a reason...and those reasons must have been valid at the time...basically talking myself out of going car shopping; which I enjoy...i can take a new mini-van out and have a good time.

shipo · August 2010

SPAM!

nyccarguy · August 2010

Actually saw an IS350. Black/Black/Black Stock Wheels. Very sharp & very handsome looking car.

I'm going to put a call into the Mercedes Dealer tomorrow to see exactly what options are on the car and more about the lease program - MF, Residual, then maybe take a ride over there tomorrow after work.

ivan_99 · August 2010

If you have the time...nothing looks nicer than a polished black car; especially at night with mirror effect.

roadburner · August 2010

I had a black E24 M6- it was gorgeous when it was clean. However, since I have a 1500' long gravel driveway the car was clean for maybe one week out of the three years I owned it...

ivan_99 · August 2010

yup...that's the time part. My 99 1/2 (the 1/2 part implies i'm a nerd) Audi A6 was a gorgeous black, but needed constant attention. I even washed it twice in one day. After making it perfect I was attacked by a swarm of Hitchcock birds...

sweendogy · August 2010

The 2010 Acura TL SH-AWD 6MT is an excellent option for driving enthusiasts who want an all-weather luxury performance sedan. The manual shifter naturally limits its appeal, but buyers who opt for this configuration (one in 6k) will be rewarded with a spacious four-door with refined world-class performance.==edmunds..
buyers of the auto are rewarded with a bloated slow AWD sedan -- but roomy for a couple date night, Holy Mackerel..

nyccarguy · August 2010

to check out the C300 Sport w/ 6 speed stick tonight. They had it advertised in the paper for $309 per month for 36 months. Now this is for 10K miles per year, paying the taxes up front, with a $1999 cap cost reduction.

They did actually have 2 C300 w/ 6 Speed sticks on the lot. The car is really nice. Very handsome & aggressive looking. I really like the headlight cluster and the big 3 pointed star in the middle of the grille. Roomier inside than an E90 3 series. The trunk was quite large for a car of this class & size. Interior materials were very high quality. The MB Text seats were traditional "Benz Rock Hard."

The salesman promptly offered me a test drive, which I declined until we ran the numbers. So once he taylored the lease figures to meet my needs: 15K per year for 3 years, $0 Cap Cost Reduction, MB Maintenance (residualized in the lease), sales tax, the payment became $460 per month. Which actually isn't bad for a $35K Mercedes, but nowhere near the screaming deal I'd have to bring home to the Board of Directors (she gets 2 votes, I get 1). I thanked him for his time & wished him luck.

plekto · August 2010

Still, your best deal is to get a certified 2-3 year old model for $20K and actually own it at the end. Doubly so with a manual, as they are extremely sought after in the used market and easy to sell.

Buy one with *only* the leather seats - or get them upgraded to real leather at a local shop for about the same price. Every other option will break and/or cost a fortune to fix.

A manual base model C class with only leather as an option is on my top 10 list along with cars like a G37 and a CTS. You'll never regret owning it if you get one like this.

nyccarguy · August 2010

Like I said, I'm going to hold off for now. I've never owned a used car (except the E30 BMW 325i I bought a few years ago, then used it as a cash 4 clunkers trade). The CPO cars can be a good deal if you pay "cash" for them. I don't like the idea of financing a 3 year old car.

I just turned in an '07 X3 that was offered to me at a fantastic price, but I don't have the cash and didn't want to finance a BMW with 45K miles.

mz6greyghost · August 2010

Will someone PLEASE update the Infiniti on the right-hand side? I believe it's now called a G37 and IIRC it's 2010.

billyperks2 · August 2010

You can post all the negative post about about the TL, I love my TL to death do us part. I will take it over a G35/37 any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Even if the G35/37 is ten seconds faster than the TL, I dont want it- too cramp, too loud, too much gas guzzling, too many on the streets (I think Infinit is selling them at a lost), too many on the the rental car lots, too feminine looking, too many gears-cant make up its mind which one to go into, the list of "too" goes on.

Kirstie_H · August 2010

You can send in a note to the help desk using the link at the top... we don't have control over that.

marcus216 · August 2010

I don't even put the G37 in the same category as the TL SH-AWD. I traded in a 2001 Lexus LS430 (purchased used in 2005) for a new 2010 TL SH-AWD. The TL is actually an inch wider and only a few inches shorter than the LS. The TL is a full size car. If I wanted a mid size car, I would have strongly considered a G37 or an Audi A4. I consider the TL a full size luxury performance sedan. In the same class as a 5 Series, or A6.

roadburner · August 2010

You can post all the negative post[sic] about about the TL, I love my TL to death do us part. I will take it over a G35/37 any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Even if the G35/37 is ten seconds faster than the TL, I dont[sic] want it- too cramp[sic], too loud, too much gas guzzling, too many on the streets (I think Infinit[sic] is selling them at a lost[sic]), too many on the the rental car lots, too feminine looking, too many gears-cant[sic] make up its mind which one to go into, the list of "too" goes on.

Well said!

ivan_99 · August 2010

I'm in your corner with the TL over G.

I wouldn't buy one for other reasons...But i'm one of the few that actually like the way it looks. In print (web) it looks odd...but in person I was impressed.

Kinda cool looks...bunch of buttons on the dash (tastefully done); exterior looks like a spaceship. It looks different...which is good; i get bored with the same ol (i like the X6

)

Got the SH-AWD to over-steer (a bit) -- that was with the gas...not pulling the parking brake or anything like that

-- I wouldn't rate this drive train layout any less than the others.

A little nose heavy; but not too bad...kinda like an Audi (haven't driven the latest A4...)

It's a bit too big for me (guess TSX V6...); but of course my IS350 feels big (probably because it's overweight).

plekto · August 2010

Well said!

That is, until you get one with a manual transmission. Then your jaw drops.

Of course, the same thing happens with Mercedes, BMW, and Cadillac. Putting an automatic in the mix just destroys the soul and character of the vehicle.

sweendogy · August 2010

well said! guy and billy.. MPG's and legroom are great but so is performance and looks -- I would put this new TL on par with the buick/lexus ES category except they are better looking cars-- i think the real comparison should be the lincoln mkz-- both are larger then entry level sedans, 40k and offer an upgrade engine that only really come in automatics (one in 6k Tl's sold comes in manuals/have yet to find one here on edmunds). They are both middle of the road performance sedans (look at the reviews)/
The G does eat gas for sure-(i get 18mpg most fillups)-and the reason why you see more G's is because they trounce acura TL in sales. (billy i posted the numbers on another chat) To knock the auto is a joke because the TL has a 5 speed auto from the accord.-- and if you see one on a rental lot you should rent it and flog the snap out of it.. Facts are facts, good safe play for a person who is looking for a good lease deal but its not going to win any performance awards other then 5 star crash safety.

billyperks2 · August 2010

And that's what smart people are looking for-safety.Thank you.

jtla · August 2010

sween, if I remember correctly, you have the 2008 G35, right? The 7AT in the 2009+ improves the mileage notably. The EPA rating for the 2010 G37 sedan is 19 city/27 highway. In real world, I can get 21 MPG average on 40/60 city/hwy. I think it is pretty good for a 328 HP performance sedan.

As to the 7-speed transmission, I did not experience the "gear hunting" some people mentioned here. In the "D" mode, it has adapted to my driving style and shifts at higher RPM than in the break-in period. Occasionally I will use the paddle-shifters to down shift for highway passing. IMO, the combination of 7AT and the paddle-shifter is about the best you can get -- short of manual tranny.

sweendogy · August 2010

billy, good comeback.. always insightful with tons of facts, smart people should also look at the sales numbers and performance numbers-- but i do agree with you that safety is important as well.

JTLA- yeah i have the old 5speed auto-- wish it had 2 more gears but cant justify trading in a car thats paid for and has no miles on it for extra 2-3 mpg.

marcus216 · August 2010

I respectfully disagree regarding performance of the TL against other premium performance sedans. My neighbor has a 2009 BMW 535 IX and I have driven his car and he has driven mine. Acceleration in a bit better in the BMW, but not much and my TL handles almost as well as his BMW. Now, am I saying that the TL is a better performing car, no. But it is fairly close. So to say that the TL is better compared to a Buick or Lincoln than a 5 Series is, in my opinion just not accurate.

jtla · August 2010

Certainly no need to trade in a 2008 for a 2010. They are still basically the same car. The point I was trying to make was that the G, especially the current model year, is not nearly as gasoline thirsty as some may think.

roadburner · August 2010

That is, until you get one with a manual transmission. Then your jaw drops.

I was being facetious; 3 of my cars are manuals, and only one is FWD.

sweendogy · August 2010

your free to have an opinion -- and I do think the TL has its good points vs BMW (one big one being price for sure) but its blood lines dont make it a true performer (thats why it NEVER wins in comparo tests)--- its an accord (not a bad thing, billy loves its safe nature, and lord knows its a proven platform)

what about the lincoln mks with awd and the SHO engine-- 350/350 hp/torque vs 305/265.. 6speed vs 5, both big and have pushed the styling to the obsurd.. i would bet the acura handles a little better but the MKS can park itself..

Buick offers the LaCross CXS which if you look close tops the base acura TL in HP--has a 6speed auto and starts at 29kk (which is 6k cheaper then base TL) and if you put the cars sidebyside (exterior) and took the badges off you would think the buick was more money.

billyperks2 · August 2010

Okay let me try and understand what you are saying.
Before you go out to purchase an automobile you research how many units been sold and the performance of the car.So basically you are telling me if the Pontiac Aztec sold a zillion units, returned a time of 0-60 in 3.2 secs, skid pad 0.84g and braking from 0-60 at 112ft - you have to get one? oh really?
I thought normal people picked their cars by their taste, budget and what fits their lifestyle.
Secondly you keep harping on the 5 speed auto- what's wrong with it? Do you think 15 gears make a car better? I think the gear ratios are remarkable in the TL- at 85mph my tach is hardly at the 2500 RPM. Try doing 85mph on your G, probably you will be cranking 4000rpm easily.When will Nissan- oh I mean Infiniti get their math correct? Can they make a car that does not harm the enviroment- all that gas guzzling just destroys the ozone-GOSH, get it right Maxima- oh, I mean G35.

marcus216 · August 2010

Bloodlines in automobiles don't really mean much to me. How a 2000 BMW 5 Series compared to a 2000 TL does not apply to how current models compare to each other. BMW 5 Series has always been the standard bearer for luxury performance sedans. My point is that my 2010 TL SH-AWD compares very well to a 2010 BMW 535IX in acceleration, handling, over all drving dynamics, interior appointments, and build quality. One can call the TL and "entry level" performance sedan because of the price point, but in real world driving, it measures up quite well. Regarding the Buick Lacrosse, I looked at it when I was car shopping. I would call the LaCrosse and "entry level' luxury sedan. It is more Lexus like. It is a comforable highway cruising car with a great interior, decent handling and driving dynamics. It has a totally different feel than a 5 Series or TL SH-AWD. And probably appeals to a different buyer. I was looking for performance more than luxury and TL delivers in that department quite well.

FYI, I also shopped the Taurus SHO. Now that was an interesting car. Extremely large, but drove much smaller. Absolutely killer engine. Nice interior and the Ford SYNC system is great. I might have leased one except that the TL came in almost $200 per rmonth less for cars that had similar list price and similar equipment.

jtla · August 2010

the TL- at 85mph my tach is hardly at the 2500 RPM. Try doing 85mph on your G, probably you will be cranking 4000rpm easily.

I did last night -- 2700 rpm at 85 mph.

Can they make a car that does not harm the enviroment- all that gas guzzling just destroys the ozone.

EPA City/Hwy MPG ratings:
G37 RWD - 19/27; G37X - 18/25
TL FWD - 18/26; TL SH-AWD - 17/25

billyperks2 · August 2010

You have 7 gears now so it has improved marginally- imagine a seven speed in the TL? What does the G35 do at 85 mph?

nyccarguy · August 2010

Neither of these are gas mileage champs. If they got the mileage that my wife's '10 TSX gets, then we'd be talking. But you can't have everything in life.

Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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