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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    The systems have no way of knowing the car has been in a crash and to unlock the doors.

    That isn't the big reason I don't like auto locking doors although it is something to think about.

    I just find them intrusive and annoying. If I'm driving through a bad neighboorhood at night, I have no trouble hitting the lock button.

    How big of a deal is that?
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    When you're at Sam's, it's -10 below, your van is caked with weeks of road salt and grime, the very last thing anyone wants to do is get their hands filthy or cold (taking gloves off).

    Hey I got something like that going on in So. Cal. When it's 58 degrees with the wind chill. Oh I guess it's not the same LOL. ;)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    You haven't escaped So. Calif yet?? ;)
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I just find them intrusive and annoying. If I'm driving through a bad neighboorhood at night, I have no trouble hitting the lock button.

    Which for the millionth time is why you can turn them off if you don't want them. However, those of us with EXL-R&N's don't have the luxury of turning them on because Honda thinks econo-car features should only come on their high-end Ody. I notice the Civic has these features now....too bad my $31,000 can't buy such luxuries. The auto-locking doors and auto headlamps are two features that get my goat enough to say I'm not 100% satisfied with Honda. I still like the Ody over the competition, but it's an annoyance that effects me everytime I drive it. Mainly because it wouldn't have cost two cents to include these features as standard equipment.

    I still say a knowlegeable Honda tech should be able to turn the auto-locks on with BCM software. Haven't run into one that is knowlegeable though.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    O.K...I don't disagree with you. I think auto locks should be on the cars so pwople can decide if they want them turned on or not.

    I just can't for the life of me, see why a simple act of pushing down a button should be SUCH an annoyance.

    Same with the headlights. It takes a twist of a knob and they are on.

    But...that's me...we are all different.
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    I don't know why anyone would let their car cake with WEEKS of road salt. I wouldn't even do that to my old (R.I.P.) accord.

    I heard it's quite difficult to file claims against the corrosion warranty :P
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    uh oh, you can leave the headlights switch on the ody to the "on" position and it will turn itself on when you unlock the car and off when you lock it.

    as a honda salesperson I think isell should donate 5bps on every deal for the rest of the month to charity for not being able to point out this feature.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I knew that. That feature isn't on ALL Hondas however.
  • aaron_taaron_t Member Posts: 301
    Couple points:

    We could have 10 sunny days from December-March in the midwest. It could snow a little every other day for a month. Why spend $8 on a car wash if it will get dirty tomorrow? If a large snowstorm comes, the melting can take weeks, all the while puddles accumulate around town.

    If the temperature never rises above around 25*F, the salt is doing no damage to your vehicle. Heated garages can do damage.
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    I always have this dilenma when going to the car wash in winter: hey, it's gonna get dirty in a couple of hours anyways, why bother?

    1) I have no idea when the temp will rise above 25 degrees, especially when it is sunny. So leaving caked salt in the muffler/B pipes area (which is definitely warmer than 25 degrees most of the time)is not really what i am looking forward to.

    2)$8 every other week is not a whole lot compare to replacing rusted out mufflers and B pipes.

    3) No matter how cold it is, there is always bird poop. And those can't stick to the paint for a long period of time.

    But again, to each of their own.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    It's a convenience, plain and simple. Just like remote entry, power windows, and such. When you get used to such things, it's glaring when you're without them. Can you fathom digging for a key-hole to get in a car these days??

    The big boo-boo on the Ody headlamps is that the dash lamps are on all the time so you can easily think your lights are on when they aren't. The brain tells you if the dashlights are on, so are the headlamps.

    To defeat this anomaly, I just run with my headlamps on all the time to make life simple. However, Honda screwed this up as well because the headlamps ONLY turn off after taking the keys out of the ignition and then shutting the drivers door. Do anything different...and your lights will stay on until you restart or kill the battery.

    Small annoyances yes, but it's more annoying to me that Honda seems to get certain things so right on things that are mechanically difficult (like the super-smooth drivetrain, handling, etc.) but then blows it on something so simple. I would expect it from one of the cheaper vehicles because there is obviously some major value factor...but when you're buying the higher-end minivan you sort of expect everything to be right.
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    can you please elaborate how the headlights will stay on, i don't want to deal with dead batteries.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well, as I mentioned before, what is a big deal to some, others won't care about.

    You mentioned remotes. Both of our Hondas have remotes. Mine are tucked away in a drawer. I have no use for them and don't like the bulk in my pocket. My key ring has four keys. Two for the cars, one for our house, and one for the store. Having two remotes would be like carrying a potato in my pocket.

    I figure, I'm going to have to stick the key in the ignition anyway, I'm going to have it in my hand, I may as well just unlock the door with it!

    But...that's me.
  • aaron_taaron_t Member Posts: 301
    $8 every other week is fine (on average), but when that second week comes with a snow storm, I can go a month between washes. Good wax or sealant will protect more than washing off the salt every other week. Bird poop: spot cleanings as soon as I notice them.

    Anyway, the point is that power liftgate is a convenience
    at times, as the power doors, power locks. Each person will put their own value on that convenience
    .
  • aaron_taaron_t Member Posts: 301
    DCX integrates the remote and the key, so you probably don't like that.

    My family's situation (since we've always had more vehicles than drivers) is to put each vehicle on their own key ring with their own remote (if it has one). I have my personal keys (house, work, etc) on a separate ring, as does my wife. When one of us leaves, we take our personal key ring and the ring for whichever vehicle we are driving that time. Keys go on a rack by the house door. Never need to carry multiple remotes. Works very well since we trade vehicles often. Rarely do I drive the same vehicle to work all week.
  • paukercpaukerc Member Posts: 14
    Well I'm glad to know I did better than the average. I had to work for every penny of that.. spent probably 2 to 3 weeks playing the game. Course it was nice to have the luxury of being patient and not needing the van pronto. That puts you in the driver seat and the edge on them. Course, I hate being so tight about it.. if I knew they were being legit.. I wouldn't mind giving them a little more to make some $$. I am giving the sales guy an extra $100 since he probably only makes $100 on the sale since it was under invoice.

    On the EP discount. Ha.. right I wish they had a sign up on the street corner saying 'I will work for EP discount'.

    That's cool on the twins.. that's rather funny and always a pleasure to talk to someone that's been where I am at. ha ha. I have one boy and one girl and it is surely a blessing.

    Oh and I agree with you on the van.. having a bigger van is the better route to go at least with my family. Thanks for all your help and take care of you and your family as well.

    PS - I live in Evansville, IN where the tornado hit last weekend. My house is 4 miles from where the tornado hit and we were safe, no damage. I can tell you that the local rescue groups and people in this area in general have been so awesome. To see the trailers and houses destroyed from the 3/4 mile wide tornado packing 160-200 mph winds.. it truly is amazing more people didn't get hurt or killed from this disaster. Local tv stations had a 2 hr telethon last night and we raised 1 million and 200 hundred dollars for Red Cross and Salvatation Army and the phones were still ringing the phone off the hook. This area has truly embraced each other in time of need. Check out some sites to see pictures of the tornado's rampage. This is the local paper.. you can signup for free. Then check out slide presentations.

    www.courierpress.com
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    If you leave the key in the ignition, the headlamps will not turn off even after door is shut.

    If you enter through a door other than the driver's, turn the ignition on (to remove a DVD for example) and then turn ignition off and remove key, the headlamps will not turn off. You must go to the drivers side, and open/close the door :mad: Grandkids are responsible for that one. Luckily I went to the garage and noticed the lights on.

    If you don't close the driver door all the way, the lights will not turn off.

    These are the situations I've discovered anyway. I left the keys in the ignition last week and came out two hours later to discover the headlamps were still on. All of my other vehicles have auto lamps so I'm far more used to not thinking about it. We don't drive the Ody much, mainly just on trips so it's hard to really get into a habit with it.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Most of the Hondas newer than ours also have the remotes built into the keys so I guess next time I'll have that too. Not a big deal, just a fatter, thicker key in my pocket.

    We took in a Volvo SUV the other day and the key/remote was the size of a Snicker's bar!
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    I live in the upper midwest where salt is used with abandon. Usually don't bother much with cleaning the car in winter either as it seems futile. Our 1985 Caravan still looked good 12 years later when we sold it for our 1996 Caravan. It still had the original exhaust system, except for one muffler clamp that rusted loose and I replaced myself. Our 1996 Caravan still also looks good as new and I suspect the exhaust again will last as long as we own it. Haven't you guys heard, just about all exhaust systems these days are stainless steel and should last generally the life of the vehicle. About the only ones I have heard of recently that don't hold up that well are some models of Honda Civic that have poorly designed support systems that eventually fatigues and breaks.
  • masterpaul1masterpaul1 Member Posts: 421
    On our 01 DGC EX, according to the owners manual, the doors will all unlock in an accident. (I thought I answered this already). :)
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    I guess with children around, one should never leave the key in ignition switch. But why would you leave the key in there in the first place?

    I will try the second one

    why would you leave the driver door open for a long period of time? And doesn't the chime bothers you?

    And thank you masterpaul for letting me know that the dc vans will unlock all doors after an accident. i always wonder though what would trigger the doors to unlock: a bump from behind? a fender bender? side swipe...
  • masterpaul1masterpaul1 Member Posts: 421
    And thank you masterpaul for letting me know that the dc vans will unlock all doors after an accident. i always wonder though what would trigger the doors to unlock: a bump from behind? a fender bender? side swipe...

    I will check the manual to see if it specifies what triggers them to unlock in an accident. I believe it would be if the air bags deploy. Either way, it's better then not having the doors to unlock at all, like some auto locks that just stay locked no matter how bad the accident. :shades:
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    "Forget the fact I sell Hondas if you are able."

    Seems like a pretty disingenuous request since "isellhondas" is your sign-on moniker.

    I don't believe the auto-lock feature is present to save people from the most minute fragment of physical exercise, but to ensure that the doors are locked when people forget.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I leave the keys in the ignition a lot around the home, stables, or at my sons. Not much chance of them getting stolen in these locations and I'm usually parked behind a garage door or another vehicle so if someone else needs to move my car they can. I realize most folks probably lock their doors in their own garage even, but we aren't too worried about security here.

    As for leaving the door open, I meant if you accidently didn't get the door shut all the way. But yes, if you want to sit somewhere with the key on/door open the chime will drive you crazy. I just shut the lights off. I remember one of my other cars that didn't have auto headlamps, and you could leave them on all the time as well. They shut off when you OPENED the drivers door, and didn't turn back on again until you started the car. That made sense!
  • paukercpaukerc Member Posts: 14
    Okay.. thats it folks.. the end of round one. Of the three judges it appears that all three score cards are scoring one for scocalawd, one for dennisctc and one for the PSU cheerleader guy with the pom, pons and skirt. :) Looks like extra rounds are needed to decide this one.

    Here's my 2 cents about Dodge vs. Honda's and it has nothing to do with vans. I've owned a Honda Civic 1988, bought it in 1993 with like 75K miles on it already. Drove it till 130K when an old lady crushed it while it was parked on the street. That car was purely awesome! The only thing I did on it was replaced the timing gear as part of mainenance, brakes and new rotors and that was it. I had a few back electric window motors (one bad, one just real slow). But as far as ride, quiet and everything else it was the best car I've ever had and it was used when I bought it. Honda makes good vehicles, I'm sure of that. A little too pricy sometimes but then again they hold their value probably better than most all other cars. Mine was totaled for $5,600 with all those miles in 1997.

    I bought a Dodge neon, brand new after that in 1997. Sure it was a low end car and it had some problems.. one major oil leak that I think was probably a manufacturing recall that they wouldn't admit. Still Dodge dealership was pretty fair about the cost of fixing it since it was just after 36K warranty. I paid parts, they paid labor. I still have this car, has 92K miles on it.. has had some problems since but nothing major. For price of car and what I've got out of it.. I'd say it was pretty good for the cheapest of their cars.

    I always said I would only buy Honda or Toyota's anymore.. just better cars and less problems in my view. Last car I bought was a Corolla 2003, 1 year used premium car. Been a good car although doesn't get the best gas mileage as I had hoped. Wife had a 1993 Nissan Sentra before that and that rode better than my neon brand new. It got like 50mpg believe it or not on the hwy. Amazing little car till my wife got hit head on.

    At any rate.. we went with the Dodge Grand Caravan because of Stow-n-go and having ways to haul stuff and good seating. If not we would have went with a Toyota Sienna van and then perhaps a Honda Odyssey. Strictly due to pricing and lack of stow-n-go options.

    I think Dodge and Honda have good cars and vans. Or at least I have had good luck with both. I still loved my Civic.. it drove great, rode great on turns etc... just a nice car.
  • ClairesClaires Member Posts: 1,222
    Thanks for getting the discussion back on track, Paul. Folks, a number of posts were removed again tonight because they were disrespectful. Please remember that this discussion is about minivans -- it's not about you or other members. If you come across a post that you feel veers the discussion down a negative road, please don't dignify it with a response, which will only perpetuate a bad situation. Email me instead. Thanks.

    ClaireS, Host
    Vans & Minivas | Coupes & Convertibles

    MODERATOR

    Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

    Tell everyone about your buying experience: Write a Dealer Review

  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    I think Dodge and Honda have good cars and vans. Or at least I have had good luck with both. I still loved my Civic.. it drove great, rode great on turns etc... just a nice car

    You said it brother! I had 5 dodges in a it was fine. If it has the features you want at a price you think is good go for it. I loved the feature of the Ody, and will continue to push that tin. I would be suprised if someone made a choice and then without any problems said the other one was what I wanted.

    Okay.. thats it folks.. the end of round one. Of the three judges it appears that all three score cards are scoring one for scocalawd, one for dennisctc and one for the PSU cheerleader guy with the pom, pons and skirt. Looks like extra rounds are needed to decide this one.

    There are no winners in the internet forums, just people who need something better to do!! Ok off to work at the park on my form shooting! Draft day for the rec league is tommorow, and I don't wanna be shooting airballs at the first practice! ;) Then boys are gonna love the slide drills!
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    Kiplinger's December 2005 issue.

    2006 Buyer's Guide

    BEST IN CLASS MINIVAN: Honda Odyssey

    "Fuel efficiency, high resale value, top marks for safety, stylish seating for seven and 15 cup holders. Who says minivans aren't cool?"

    For driving enthusiasts, better perfomance in handling, spirited performance and sportier feel would further distance it from the competition.

    Stay tuned - for more newer and repeat confirmations & recommendations to come from additional sources(such as C & D, Money, CR, etc) .

    No need to say anything more! Don't waste time for any more rounds. I am not.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Consumers who think for themselves don't stay awake at night wondering how CR, Money, C&D, Motor Trend, Good Housekeeping, Kiplinger, Family Circle, or Mad Magazine rate the minivans. :sick:

    Smart Consumers buy the minivan which they personally feel is the best value for them and their family. ;) More families own and drive Dodge/Chrysler minivans than the closest 3 competitors combined.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    No need to say anything more! Don't waste time for any more rounds. I am not.

    Never any arrogance on the Honda side is there! Sorry but in an open and free society, no matter how you might want to stifle differing comments, there are more rounds.

    If Odys were truly that great, you'd have customers knocking down doors and price mark ups, not discounts huh? More people vote with their wallets for DCX, than any other Minivan and that's what matters to most people.
  • kfdmedkfdmed Member Posts: 130
    What does Kiplingers know about minivans or cars? Not too much. Look at the box with all the vans specs and misc information and count how many errors? I didn't know the Kia Sedona had 244hp. Dont all the GM vans have the same outside dimensions? Just to name a few.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    "What does Kiplingers know about minivans or cars? Not too much. Look at the box with all the vans specs and misc information and count how many errors? I didn't know the Kia Sedona had 244hp"

    The 2006 Sedona has a new 3.8L V6 rated at 244HP.
    So it appears that Kiplinger knows more than you do...
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    One of the reasons that DCX vans sell more is the pricing. With all the frequent discounts and rebates a DCX van can be had for many thousands less than an Odyssey. The fact also is that MANY go into fleet use both as rentals or corporate use.

    You can argue from today until tomorrow about quality but the reputable statistics don't lie: Odyssey is far more reliable than are the DCX minis.

    You can argue forever but a $30,000 MSRP DCX van one can buy at discount after all the copious rebates for $23,000 will be worth $9,000 in three years. The $31,345 MSRP Odyssey bought for $28,500 will be worth $16,000 in three years. The cost of driving each should be around the same. Many people on Edmunds keep their vehicles beyond that which resale is a factor but the great majority still trade every four - five years. In five years the DCX would be worth $5,000 and the Honda $14,000. I am going by what I see on Edmunds and other sources.

    I like one flavor of ice cream and you another so who is right? I think it is a monumental waste of time to argue over whose van is better. We would be doing the readers a far better service by posting the facts of ownership devoid of as much personal opinion as possible. For example: My 2005 T & C developed a knocking noise using the recommended 87 octane. Or, my 2005 Odyssey has a terrible wind noise eminating from the windshield area. the dealer says a TSB has been issued an they are going to reseal the windshield. Those are facts and are very helpful to all of us.

    I cannot believe the amount of time some people spend in a game of "mine is bigger than yours".
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    Well said and I could not agree more.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Although the 2006 Odyssey, Caravan, Grand Caravan and Town & Country are selling well. What is the hype over whether the 2006 Sedona has 244 HP, 100 HP or 500 HP? Does it still have the coveted "OPEC Minivan of the Year" as the undisputed gas guzzler? :blush:
    Apparently Kiplinger and other magazines are just passing on propaganda from selected manufacturers instead of printing known facts. Who does the actual testing of minivans for Kiplinger? :confuse:
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    As long as I draw breath.....

    You can argue from today until tomorrow about quality but the reputable statistics don't lie: Odyssey is far more reliable than are the DCX minis.

    Seems like someone is living in the past here, lets just ignore the numerous recalls, and tons of issues on this board and elsewhere for Odys. Would love more details on your "reputable statistics".

    I cannot believe the amount of time some people spend in a game of "mine is bigger than yours".

    Funny how you go on and on "waste of time" etc..but then continue on and on. What amount of time have you spent?

    As far as resale....I'd gladly pocket thousands, earning interest instead of paying interest over 5 years. Using Edmunds and others is deeply flawed when it comes to cost of ownership....many of these sites aren't up to date, don't take into account all rebates, discounts and dealer incentives.
  • kfdmedkfdmed Member Posts: 130
    Oops my bad. That explains why they gave it best new van.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Although the 2006 Odyssey, Caravan, Grand Caravan and Town & Country are selling well.

    Regardless of what CR, Kiplinger's, C&D, Home and Garden, Lady's Home Journal and GQ write. DCX's combination of price, features, and benefits etc...better meet what the market place requires.
  • aaron_taaron_t Member Posts: 301
    Your future value estimates will be off. Reviewing 2004 and prior models' values will be somewhat moot as they don't have the desirable Stow N Go.

    2006 T&C Touring w/ $28.8k MSRP has a 61% residual after 2 years, according to DCX Financial who is leasing them. Are you telling me it will only have 31% after one more year? Not likely.
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    I am on my 7th minivan since 1983. I can count on one hand the number of times I needed all the seats removed (no folding flat seats)in any van. No statistics to back me up but I'll bet 90% of folding seat van owners never do. I bought my vans for passenger hauling ability and comfort. If I wanted to haul cargo I would have bought a pickup or cargo van. I do not believe folding seats will change the awful depreciation of American vans.
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    A 2003 T & C Limited with 52,000 miles and "Clean" condition is worth $14,000 in trade according to Edmunds. A 2003 Odyssey EX with leather is worth $16,570. I do believe the MSRP on the T & C was considerably more than the odyssey.

    What is the residual on the Honda? We will not know what the resale value is until 2008 for a 2006 model. Look at the historic resale value.

    You are right and I am right so who is right?

    Like I said, this helps no one. I spoke up and got berated just as I expected. I have been online for over 20 years and this is all expected conduct. As soon as you refute someone, no matter how accurate my information might be, I am labled a name.

    I will just continue to lurk.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    2006 T&C Touring w/ $28.8k MSRP has a 61% residual after 2 years, according to DCX Financial who is leasing them. Are you telling me it will only have 31% after one more year? Not likely.

    Take a look at what the banks are using for residual instead of DC. Ford and DC regularly jack up their residuals to give a cheaper payment. GMAC isn't too bad about it, they're usually in the ballpark. Go to one of the lease assumption sites www.swapalease.com or www.leasetrader.com and look at the buy-outs on Fords/Dodges. It basically makes it a bad deal on the tail end. I've never been able to assume a Ford or DC product because of that. Now, they WILL negotiate the buyout on the tailend, but that's a big unknown so it's not worth the risk to me.
  • aaron_taaron_t Member Posts: 301
    Whether anyone uses the Sow N Go or not is somewhat irrelavent. Value is based on perception and Stow N Go has buzz right now. Will it last? No one knows.

    A minivan can hold more stuff covered than the average pickup truck. 4x8 sheets of material with the hatch closed. I have a truck to haul cargo as well, but I find myself using the van sometimes instead of the truck. The whole point of Stow N go, Magic seats, etc is flexibility because most people do not want (or cannot afford) to buy a comfortable 7 passenger vehicle and a long bed pickup. Even if you do not need that flexibility, others do as evidence by sales numbers.
  • aaron_taaron_t Member Posts: 301
    Ford Credit, GMAC, and Chrysler Financial are making loads of money. If they inflate residuals for low payments, wouldn't they be stuck in the end with large negative equity? How do they make money with low cash flow (low payments) and miscalculated residuals?

    I would not say that the OEM financing arms have accurate residual values, but they can't afford to be that far off.
  • kfdmedkfdmed Member Posts: 130
    Can not agree less with that statement. I have had my van since February. Stowed all the seats at least a half dozen times and stowed the rears least a dozen times. I think just the opposite is probably true ... 10% of owners never stow their seats. It is the best of both worlds ... passenger hauling and comfort plus cargo hauling ability.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    The high residuals are basically like additional incentives, only they get tagged for the money on the tail-end of the lease. But they also get to pickup the money factor throughout, as opposed to someone using private financing so it generates business for their financing arm.

    Plus they have an advantage on the tail end. They run the cars through their own sales, it ensures their dealers have fresh trades in good condition with required maintenance, so they can get slightly more money at a DC dealer only sale than they might elsewhere.

    But if you look at a Dodge/Ford residual vs real-world trade/wholesale value there's a good chunk of money on the table.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I'm sure there are a lot of DC owners just because of the stow-n-go seats. Anyone that uses their van for more cargo than passengers will love them. I have a relative that is trading her 3rd DC van early just because she wants the folding seats. She uses her van almost 100% for cargo and generally the seats are out, and she throws them in a few times a year for passengers. I see a lot of 1 passenger minivans and a lot of elderly folks that have them most likely for the space.

    I personally have never removed the seats from any minivan I've owned. Never had a need to, but I have several pickups sitting around so I don't tend to drive the van if I need cargo space! Of course if I had to go to only one vehicle, I'd have another Suburban.
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    Good point. If you ever want to see a mini-van convoy, try a weekend excursion with the girl or boy scouts. The last time I took my daughter to such an event, almost every one of the vehicles were mini-vans. And most were packed with items that blocked the rear and side windows. One set of parents in the troop have traded their 2004 Caravan for a newer version with Stow & Go. Recent folks who I have heard discussing mini-van purchase all mention Stow & Go.

    Something tells me that while Chrysler is the only one that has it, it'll be considered valueless by advocates of other types. But when copied in some way, it'll suddenly a very exciting feature.

    Dusty
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    But we have to give Honda credit for re-inventing the old American station wagon "fold-into-the-floor" 3rd row seat, renaming it the "Magic Seat", and now almost everyone wants the feature.
    Toyota upped the feature content with the 60/40 split, fold-into-the-floor 3rd row and now the Odyssey, Grand Caravan, and Town & Country have it also.
    I personally prefer the more comfortable 50/50 fold and tumble 3rd row seating of my 2002 T&C LX where I can easily remove one side and the middle seat of that side and have room for a nice comfortable mattress to sleep on. ;) (The Odd 2nd row seats are NOT nearly as easy to remove and replace as the 2nd row seats of my T&C).
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    Every time I remove the rear seat in my 1994 Grand Caravan ES, I certainly wish it had the "Stow & Go" feature! I seldom remove the two captain's chairs in the middle, but for the extra area for hauling, the full-size rear seat is removed quite often. I've gotten to the point where removing the seat by myself is no real chore - if you enjoy heavy lifting!

    While I was between jobs a year ago, I tried my hand at selling new cars at the local Dodge dealership. Actually, it was an enjoyable experience, and the Grand Caravan's with their Stow & Go feature were our top sellers. I think less time was spent on a minivan sale than any other vehicle in inventory, with the possible exception of a Jeep Wrangler.

    As to resale value (I don't look at or consider residual values, as I never lease vehicles), I really could care less. As you can tell from the 1994 Grand Caravan, I keep a vehicle for a long time, thereby making resale or trade-in values moot. The '94 is essentially worthless to everyone but me. I think I'll keep it; it's just too good of an utilitarian vehicle to be without. Its interior is like new, it's on the original 4-speed ECT (158K), and the engine (3.3L OHV V6) still is in good shape with very little oil consumption between the 3K oil changes. I have used Mobil 1 5W-30 synthetic since purchase, and have changed the ATF every 20K - plus no "jack rabbit" shifts or very few unnecessary kick downs. Maybe that's why the transmission is still shifting smoothly. And, it still delivers 26 to 27 MPG on Summer vacation trips with the AC on.
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