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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    there's only room for 8 vehicles in the categorization/description field here

    Do you mean the "What is this discussion about?" at the top of the section?

    I count 11 items.

    Maybe you could choose Lexus IS as opposed to the IS250 and IS350 separately.

    .
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,147
    edited December 2010
    My bad - it's 9. The other two aren't vehicles, but other categories. I can only have 9 vehicles, and I can't just choose "IS" under Lexus - I can only be specific.

    I did update Infiniti to be G37 rather than G35.

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    With Nav, too. Nice find.

    Trade-in is right near $21k, however, so you'd be looking at more like $23k-$24k to buy it.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    Also... click on the link for their inventory and come across
    this little gem for stickguy

    Although difference betwee price and fair deal is about $3k right now.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    That's a really nice car for $23K though. That 6speed 3er wagon is nice too.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,221
    Yeah.. the wagon is a little pricy.... It's a true stripper model, too... manual seats...

    About the only thing it has going for it is the stick... stickguy likes those light interiors, though....

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    and it has a moonroof, which is on his "must have" list.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,221
    I think we do a better job picking out a car for him, than for ourselves..

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  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Much as it did that winter night/morning in Buffalo during the late fall of 1996. I was at a cliub with some friends in Buffalo (I went to college about 2 1/2 hours away in Ithaca). My friend who I was visiting (and at the club with) was in a shall we say intoxicated state and getting very friendly with a 6' tall blonde. At about 3:30 AM I decided I had had enough and wanted to go back to his place to crash.

    "Chris, give me your keys. I'll meet you back at your place later. Call me if you need a lift."

    With the flick of his wrist, he tossed me the keys to his 1995 E36 BMW 325is. Red/Black leather. 5 speed manual transmission. HK, Sunroof, & most importantly Sport Package + additional factory lowering.

    Now up until this point, I was a novice at driving stick and had never had any real seat time in a BMW. I thought they were for "show offs." My entire point of view changed by the time I took off from the 1st traffic light. I had never driven a car that I just felt so perfect in. I drove the car around the streets of Buffalo for the next 2 1/2 hours. By the end of the night, I was steering around right turns with the throttle & rotating around corners perfectly. I've wanted a BMW ever since.

    Fast forward to December 2, 2010. The numbers don't mean a whole helluva lot. BMW gets good money for their cars and they are worth every penny.

    I've got my Mom's '08 E90 BMW 328xiA (almost 61,000 miles) until Saturday. Even saddled with all wheel drive & automatic transmission, it is still a true driver's car. You all know how much I love my '01 Prelude Type SH (almost 132,000 miles). My Mom's BMW is one of the few cars I've driven that almost make my Prelude feel "loose."

    The drive from my parents house in Rockland County, NY to my house in Stamford, CT changed my mind and reinvigorated my passion for BMWs. I'd take a 328i with its 230 horsepower, no NAV, leatherette, sports package, & 6 speed stick. It is just an amazing car to drive. I would even consider a CPO or private party used (as long as the person has service records & the car passes a PPI) and I've only owned new cars my entire driving life since I got my license.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    I'd take a 328i with its 230 horsepower, no NAV, leatherette, sports package, & 6 speed stick.

    That's exactly what I'd want, too. Sport and stick. Nothing else needed. Well.... OK, I'd want the USB port, too.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Thanks for a great story NYC! Very nice memories.

    For me, when I was in the Army, I was passing through Dallas to spend a few days with my uncle (yes, the one with a thing for Acuras). Back in the 80's and 90's, he was strictly a BMW guy (320i, 325e, then 325i).

    We went on a liquor run to OK and he let me drive his then new E30. Up until that point, all I had owned/driven was my dad's Accord, and my Alfa Romeo Spider and CRX Si.

    I had a similar epiphany - how could such a simple car (my uncle is minimalist - his E30 had NO options) be so much better than anything I had ever driven. Of course, I didn't have the scratch to buy a BMW so I owned many more imitators before I finally got the real thing.

    They really are that good. Sublime.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    The drive from my parents house in Rockland County, NY to my house in Stamford, CT changed my mind and reinvigorated my passion for BMWs. I'd take a 328i with its 230 horsepower, no NAV, leatherette, sports package, & 6 speed stick. It is just an amazing car to drive. I would even consider a CPO or private party used (as long as the person has service records & the car passes a PPI) and I've only owned new cars my entire driving life since I got my license.

    Funny, for me the situation was in 1998. I was looking for a premium smaller sedan. I drove a brand new (was that the E36?) 1999 BMW 323, but the dealer only had an automatic. It seemed decent but I wasn't wowed. Then I drove a 1998 Audi A4, 6 cyl, manual. There was no comparison. The Audi had a much nicer interior, the clutch and stick were like butter, and the steering and suspension were taut and precise. I bought it.
  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    That Volvo S60 looks nice on paper, but I think in one review I read that it is more of an A4/Lexus Competitor than G37/3 Series.

    Have driven the new S60 here in UK, (admittedly only the D3 and D5 Geartronics), at a Volvo track day I can say that it is at least a match for any 3-series up to/incl the 330D. One of the pro-drivers rated them equal in the dry but gave the S60 the edge in the wet. New S60 really is a vastly different car to the outgoing model and made my '06 S60 D5 Geartronic seem positively wooden by comparison. Mag reviews are fine for rough comparison...............you need to drive 'em to really find out. Before I drove the S60 I was thinking; "Hmm so it's a re-skin". After 4 hours of all kinds of silliness I was smitten. It's a new car from the wheels up.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    If I were to order one, it would have a 6-speed stick, Sport Pkg, Heated Seats, iPod/USB, Sirius, Xenon, Leatherette, Sunroof, & Metallic Paint.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    What annoys me about their sales pitch on the new S60, though, is calling it the "sportiest volvo ever."

    Here in the US, at least, the T6 only comes with an automatic. The S60R had the same peak engine outputs, was a lighter car, and was available with a stick. Gotta tip yer hat to that as being more sporty, if not even the sportiest.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    ordering? yeah, I'd probably add bun warmers, Sirius, and Xenons, as well. Moonroof is not on my list. I'd rather do without to save weight. And, for some reason, I hate paying for paint.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    At the age of 14 I coerced my dad into test driving a 1972 Bavaria. The salesman drove it first and demonstrated how well it cruised at 120 mph. I was hooked, but I didn't end up with my own BMW until 1983 when I bought a 1973 Bavaria- which my girlfriend at the time(and now my wife of almost 25 years) had found for me. She had wisely determined that the way to my heart led through the garage...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I don't like the idea of paying for paint either. Does it really cost an extra $550 to paint a car a different color. The E90 looks terrific in so many colors. The Vermillion Red looks amazing.

    I know sunroofs add weight, but I like 'em.

    Funny thing about paying for paint. My Mom's lease is up on her 328xi at the end of this month. She ordered a Porsche Cayenne V6. Called me up after she visited the dealer & gushed about the truck. After she told me what options she specd out, I asked her what color. She told me White. This took me by surprise as she's never come close to wanting a white car. Now the white happens to be a fantastic color for the Cayenne. I said: White? She told me she refuses to pay $800 for a specific color & she really loves the white.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I had a college friend who had a 1984 E30 BMW 325e with a 5 speed stick. The car was 10 years old and had well over 100K miles on the odometer. The speedometer didn't work. One day we're cruising the back roads of Ithaca, NY & I asked him how he knew how fast he was going. He tells me it clicks on every once in a while. We went over a bump in the road, the car got some air & when it landed, the speedo clicked on & read 105 mph. The car was amazingly solid & stable at that speed.

    BMWs are special cars no doubt.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    Back in 1984 I was driving my 1973 Bavaria through PA on our way home from our first BMW CCA Oktoberfest. It was a drizzly Sunday morning and my wife was reading a mystery novel. My CB and first generation Escort indicated a threat-free environment so I slowly eased the old sled up to a 100 mph cruise, which I maintained for almost two hours. My wife's only comment was "Wow, it took us almost no time to cross Pennsylvania."
    Four years later I was evaluating an early E32 750i outside Rochester New York. I took it up to 125 mph and asked my wife how fast she thought we were going. She guessed 80 mph...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,221
    ... I have boring stories about my indoctrination into BMWs, as well, but I'll save those for another time...

    The speed thing, though... (warning, this story is boring, also).. Four of us were driving up the road about an hour to eat dinner, one evening... In my '84 911.... (hey, I'm not sitting in the back, what do I care?).. The other guy is sitting upfront with me, we have a conversation going, and the women are in the back with their own conversation.. From the back, I hear... "Geez... let's open this thing up and see what it will do" (not my wife, obviously)..

    "Well... uh.. we are already doing 105... how fast do you want to go?" :)

    It's amazing how smooth and controlled German cars can be at speed... she had no idea we weren't going 55 mph.

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  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I had to really watch myself. Looked down a few times and was going over 90 & Mom's 328xi felt completely planted & stable.

    Having the 300/300 N55 motor would be complete overkill for me.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Not boring at all...
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Any story involving a 911 is NOT boring

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    pretty quiet overall, not many people and to be honest no real draws

    bmw- a no show
    ford- showcasing its new focus and explorer
    Chevy- 4-5 Camaros, volt but could not sit or touch it--same with nissan leaf
    acura- showcasing the new Tsx wagon, did notice a bunch of people looking/sitting in the Tl
    Caddy- CTS-V wagon maybe the meanest car on the market
    Dodge- people around the challengers, nothing else.. Jeep draw was the Wrangler
    Audi- A4/S4 big crowd--
    Infiniti- really quiet, couple of people looking at the monster suv
    Volvo- S60 big draw, i sat in it was not impressed by the dash, lots of open space
    LExus- IS350 awd was highlighted - 46k
    Buick- 10 old people looking at the fleet-- kind of funny actually- but they did highlight the new Regal GS-- good looking car-- also LaCrosse eAssist that gets 37mpg on the highway

    I've been to nyc auto show - not the same in boston
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,686
    I, too, went to the Boston show. I do miss the NY show (been going since it was at the Coluseum!), how about the other "models?"

    Hello, Andrea from Lexus (formerly Infiniti)...

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Today in the parking lot at work I noticed a beautiful black 2011 Volvo S60. Never driven one so their dynamics could be trash...but it sure was nice looking; it definitely looked more modern than my ol' IS350.

    Then at lunch I saw a beautiful black Lincoln MKS. I'm not certain what trim level they have but it was really gorgeous.

    Maybe it was because they were freshly polished black cars...or maybe a shift in the industry.

    I recently read the review of the Kia Optima and thought "what a compelling car", "I could commute in that", even though intellectually my synapses are still firing "yuk" when I think of Kia.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Actually Volvo S60s, especially if they have a manual transmission, are wonderful vehicles.
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Don't think the new ones offer manuals with the new ones yet. Car very good looking on the outside but the inside of the one I sat in was pretty boring. On the above post on the Kia I also think they are pretty good looking cars - with the turbo 4 and loaded they are as competitive as the tsx, base tl, and other front wheel 4's in this group-
  • saratoga3saratoga3 Member Posts: 16
    group,
    just wondering if anyone out there has looked at the Nissan Maxima? I have expanded my serach from Lexus and Infiniti and would appreciate any comments.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    It's a fine car, though to me it seems a bit "last generation". IMO, there's zero reason to buy it instead of the G37. IMO, it's a bit like the Buick Lucerne or Grand Marquis in that it's a vehicle that's left over/still being produced and stuck in an odd place, because it's not really filling any specific role/market segment at this point. They've always made the Maxima and probably always will. For me, though, the CVT in the Maxima just kills it completely. And it's needlessly pricey to fix. You'd think less parts would equate to a cheap fix.

    But I do understand your wanting to look at other options. Lexus seemed overpriced and stodgy to me - and everyone has one, it seems. BMW makes a nice car, as does Mercedes, but cost to own is high(love the new E class, though.. wish I could afford to own one). Audi's larger vehicles are gorgeous inside but also suffer from maintainance woes. The list quickly dwindles.

    I'd look at the Acura TL or possibly the CTS (you didn't specify sporty or luxury preference) Both can be had for about 32K through various sites like Truecar. It turns out they all are using the same back end call centers - I got a quote from Truecar and a couple of other sites recently and got the same receptionist on the phone (though different agents). So it works well enough to get an idea at least of the price locally.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    Unlike pleko, I can give a better balanced impression on the Maxima since I have the new one and considered it heavily against the G37. There is plenty of reason to buy a Maxima and sales of the current gen prove that, but it depends on what your looking for specifically.

    If you don't have a family or a big family and want something with a luxury bad, better materials, and a sport firm ride/handling then the G37 is the one that makes the most sense.

    If your like me and want something that is more a roomier family sedan but with a sport look/flair to it then the Maxima fits the bill better. The maxima is much more comfortable inside and if you get the premium package you get the heated steering wheel, power rear sunshade, dual moonroof, cooled front seats, auto dimming side mirrors, sport bucket seats, and a couple of other goodies that you can even get on the G37.

    To me, the Maxima is the best handling FWD sedan I have ever driven to date. Its got a great turning circle for its size, just the right ride quality balance, and if driven properly, yields decent mpg with the CVT. Only thing is, if you've never had a CVT before, it's going to take you about 2-3 months to get used to it. It was odd at first, but after 1.5 years, it seems like normal to me and I have had zero problems with it in almost 17 miles.

    This gen max is a world's different from the last one and to me has a much more stand out body style then the G37 does but that vehicle itself is due for a redesign in 2012. I suggest you test drive both vehicles, like I did, and see which one suits your needs better. They are two different vehicles, despite what anyone else on here leads you to believe.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    The single largest "fail" vis-à-vis the Maxima is that it is no longer available with a stick; the G37 can still be had with three pedals under the dash.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    What got me was that the Maxima is only 3 inches longer than the G37 size-wise. It's mostly sheet metal. FWD and CVT makes it frankly into an Avalon or Lucerne clone - it's nice and spacious, but it has a serious problem competing with the big RWD luxury cars.
  • saratoga3saratoga3 Member Posts: 16
    thanks for the replies, I drove the G but not the Max yet. I like a car with some room and the G was a little cramped. I did own a 01 Max that I loved, but the new ones are totally different.Also, have some concerns on gas mileage with the G but you give that up for performance.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Have you driven the Hyundai Genesis? You really should.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Sorry smarty, but if you cannot give a "better balanced" impression of something you paid $$$$ for, compared to a casual observer that hasn't spent any of their own $$$$ on a product.

    Having said that, I agree with pletko on a lot of points. The current-gen Maxima is a shell of a car that it used to be. The "four-door Sports Car" moniker than Nissan used for it is long since gone, and it's been replaced by a sedan that doesn't fit into any distinct category anymore. It's essentially NOT an entry-level lux sedan (as much as Nissan would like it to be) because the materials and fit-and-finish pales in comparison to G (which is essentially the same price). It's too expensive to be a viable midsize sedan, and why spend a few grand more for a nameplate when the Altima can be optioned similarly for a lower price?

    If you're looking for some room, the Caddy CTS is a good alternative, as well as the aforementioned Genesis. Also check out the Acura TL.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    Nissan got rid of the stick b/c when they offered is NO one was buying it and it got the point that they were losing money on the ones they were spending the time making a stick available on. So you know what, we only have ourselves to blame for that one. Now that Nissan no longer has it everyone whines about it but no one was buying it when it was here.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    I don't think its suppose to be a big RWD luxury competitor b/c if it was then there would be practically zero difference between it and a G37. Yeah, the Max is only 3 inches longer but its almost 4 inches wider which is what makes the difference and gives it so much more room. The G37 is designed to be a cramped sports sedan like a 3 Series.

    If you think the FWD and CVT has turned it into a Avalon and Lucerne clone then you really know nothing about the car. The Maxima rides and handles 10x better than both those vehicles and isn't even close in any driving dynamics. Plus, despite having the CVT, I've been able to keep up with plenty of regular automatics and manuals with the car so its performance capabilities aren't void or completely handicapped b/c of it. That is just an excuse people use to not get the car.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    I don't need to be chastised b/c you don't agree with my assessment but I have much more experience then you do with both vehicles so give me a break. Your logic about the $$$$ factor makes no sense at all either. This coming from a guy who at the max (no pun intended) only test drove each vehicles for 10 minutes each. I test drove each vehicle 3 times and had a G as a loaner many times when my FX was in for routine maintenance.

    I actually agree with you that the Maxima is not a true 4DSC in its current set-up and that is not the fault of the car itself but Nissan's stupid marketing schemes which they still don't get but that is another subject. I don't think anybody but you placed it in the entry-level lux sedan segment b/c I sure as didn't say it was. It is classified typically as an upscale or premium sedan.

    Your comments tell me that you don't have a clue when it comes to either of these vehicles b/c the Maxima is not the same price as a G37. As I stated earlier, no one is paying near sticker for a fully loaded Maxima. Typically you can get one for $33-35k when its all said and done, while a G37 does not have as big of a reduction. I have seen most people getting them for $37-40k depending on how its loaded up. That's still a difference and price and there are many luxury sedan features your getting in the cheaper Maxima that you can't even get in the G sedan even loaded all the way up.

    Is the fit and finish the same as the G, of course not, but it doesn't pale in comparison as you claim it to be. Its the best interior Nissan has had on the Maxima ever and that says a lot considering the interior's they had pre 2007.

    I was worried that there wouldn't be a market for the new Max but there is and the sales success of it prove it. There are big differences between the Altima and Maxima now that warrants the higher price of the Max and its more refined in every way, I should know, I cross-shopped that as well with the Maxima. As I said, the Maxima has found a market niche as a sporty family sedan that can get great mpg for the power.

    Now if Infiniti ever decided to bring back a FWD sedan or coupe then your argument might have more value.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I don't think the situation is quite as simple as your explanation suggests. The Maxima used to be quite a sporty car relative to its competition in the market place, however, Nissan saw fit to supplant the Maxima in that market space with Infiniti G series while at the same time tarting up the Maxima to the point where only the barest smidgen of sporting intention remains. Did the tarting up process drive stick buyers away or did the lack of stick buyers force Nissan to tart the car up and take it into a different market segment? I suspect the former.

    Long story short, the Maxima is no longer qualified to compete in this segment, a segment of which it was a firm stake holder early in its earlier iterations.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    Well there are over 60,000 some people in 2010 that would disagree with you and at it stands it sells the best of any mainstream flagship sedan does.

    Problem with you logic is, the cars the Maxima competes with, Avalon, Azera Impala, Taurus, etc are not as sporty as the Maxima is and have sales not even close to it, except for the Impala which is just rent a car fodder. Its the sportiness for the competition in the market place it has right NOW.

    Is it has sporty as it used to be, no, but there is more than just a smidgen of sportiness left. The body style screams sport, the exhaust note screams sport, the acceleration is incredible, ride quality is definitely not Lexus cushy and gear toward the feedback side, and for FWD, it handles very responsively compared to the other FWD flagship sedans it competes with.

    I love how everyone says the maxima has no market and can't compete yet sales prove you completely wrong, especially if you compared it to the big/bloaty boat the previous generation was and sales failure it was. This generation at least started going back in the right direction after where it had been from 2004-2008. It blends family sedan comfort with some sporty driving characteristics. Something that both the Altima and G37 do not both due at the same time. The G37 is complete sports car while the Altima is a boring comfortable family sedan. The Maxima bridges some of the characteristics of each of those cars nicely.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    edited January 2011
    So sixty thousand customers makes the Maxima a contender in this category; how do you figure? True, it is sportier than an Impala; so what?

    Exhaust note? Geez, I've heard late model Cadillac land yachts that sound better. Even still, since when was exhaust note a metric for measuring sportiness? Wait-wait, I know; it's a measure among the crowd that likes to put far can mufflers on their tiny little econo cars. :P

    Acceleration? Here again, not exactly an attribute that is the exclusive domain of sporty cars. I mean really, a Dodge Ram pick-up with a Hemi in it will handily show its taillights to a Maxima.

    Long story short, the Maxima has been bloated up to be a nice grand touring car, nicer than Impalas and the like, but not a very good competitor to the cars that make up this class. I know you disagree, but even with those sixty-thousand souls in your back pocket, you're still not going to sell your argument.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Well there are over 60,000 some people in 2010 that would disagree with you and at it stands it sells the best of any mainstream flagship sedan does.

    If you go back & read Shipo's post, you'll note that nowhere in it did he say that the Maxima isn't a strong seller - only that it's no longer considered a sport sedan as it once was.

    Problem with you[sic] logic is, the cars the Maxima competes with, Avalon, Azera Impala, Taurus, etc are not as sporty as the Maxima is and have sales not even close to it, except for the Impala which is just rent a car fodder.

    I don't see a problem with Shipo's logic here. If the Maxima's chief competition comes from cars that aren't perceived as sporty, then it would logically follow from that fact that the Maxima itself is not perceived as sporty.

    I love how everyone says the maxima has no market and can't compete yet sales prove you completely wrong

    Once again, Shipo's argument doesn't rest on sales numbers.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    edited January 2011
    It's simple my friend. If there wasn't a market for it as you and other stated and it doesn't compete well in its class competition then it shouldn't sell well. Problem is it sells very well as I pointed out and almost every review I have read states its a huge improvement over the last generation Maxima.

    Do you hear an loud exhaust note on a Camry? and Accord? a Altima? a Avalon? no you don't. That's because there isn't anything sporty about them. Only vehicles that have sporty pretensions and characteristics would do that. Why would a manufacturer waste the time to design and do that if it wasn't suppose to sound aggressive? B/c they want it to have sporty characteristics.

    Acceleration, looks, handling, ride, etc are not attributes that make a sporty car? Your definition of what makes a sporty vehicle is puzzling to say the least.

    A Dodge Ram pick up with a Hemi in it will handily show it's taillights to a Maxima; so what? I would expect it to. Now your going off on crazy vehicle and engines comparisons. Talk about going all over the place.

    Actually, the Maxima has been decreased in size compared to its previous generation so it hasn't been bloated up. I'm puzzled as to what you think are the cars that make up this class? Since the Maxima is a premium mainstream flagship sedan then that is what class it is apart of. That means the car's in its class is the Impala, Taurus, Azera, and Avalon. It outsells and performs all those vehicles.

    Bottom line is, you don't even know what class of car the Maxima is in, despite the fact it is in the mainstream flagship sedan class, sells better than its competition, and is more aggressive and unique then those other vehicles as well. It's class has changed compared to 10 and 15 years ago and so has the rest of the car market. Infiniti didn't even have anything sporty 10-15 years ago so even with in Nissan itself there are different vehicles that they have to be careful they don't compete against. Your logic and others makes no sense that a car that sells as well as the Maxima does has no market and is not a good competitor for its class. Even with your put downs and contradictions, your still not going to sell your argument.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    edited January 2011
    I never said the Maxima was a sports sedan. I said it was sporty family sedan or put it another way, a family sedan with sport/aggressive characteristics.

    Actually his argument can rest on sales numbers him and others said that its not class competitive and there is no need or market for it. Sales numbers prove that there is a market for it or people wouldn't buy it in the numbers that they are.

    Second, saying that b/c the Maxima's chief competition come from cars that are not sporty thus making the Maxima itself not perceived as sporty is just a gross generalization and to me isn't logical b/c in each car class their is always one or two vehicles that are different or an exception in certain characteristics then others. That's what makes test driving so important since the Maxima is very different with its driving dynamics then the others in the mainstream flagship class. That is the class the Maxima is in now, and it competes extremely well. I don't care what class it was in 10 or 15 years ago. Have to accept that is has changed to what it is today.

    Take the entry-level lux class for instance. An ES350, C-Class, IS, A4 and Lacrosse are more on the dull, less sporty side of vehicles but the 3-Series and G37 are the polar opposite of that. That would make a huge assumption about those sport sedan vehicles that b/c its in a class with a majority of less sporty (or luxury focus vehicles) they are not sport sedans as well. That of course would be a wrong assumption just like it is about a Maxima not having sporty driving characteristics.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    edited January 2011
    Your logic and others makes no sense that a car that sells as well as the Maxima does has no market and is not a good competitor for its class. Even with your put downs and contradictions, your[sic] still not going to sell your argument.

    Do you own a Maxima? If so, do you like it? If you do, why does it matter to you what Shipo, I or anyone else thinks of it?

    It's clear from your last couple of posts that you're getting a bit excited. (You're making some spelling & grammar goofs that you probably wouldn't make otherwise.) Calm down. We're talking about cars here - not the things that are really worth arguing about: books, music & single-malt scotch.

    Just relax & have some fun.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    edited January 2011
    If you had read the posts from the last day you would have seen that I had mentioned I had gotten a Maxima. I was trying to offer advice and information for the OP who wanted to know the difference between the G37 and Maxima since he was considering the two vehicles.

    Since I have the new Max and I test drove and weighed it heavily against the G37, I thought I could provide some valuable insight into the differences between the two vehicles since I made a similar decision and what the pros and cons of each vehicle was. That is what I tried to do.

    Instead, I got criticized by several people for my comments and comparisons and got multiple put downs on my choice of vehicle and was told that it was not class competitive and there is no market for it :confuse: Very puzzling statements considering its sales numbers and how the market/class segment it now occupies has changed very much from what it was 10-15 years ago.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Instead, I got criticized by several people for my comments and comparisons and got multiple put downs on my choice of vehicle and was told that it was not class competitive and there is no market for it

    Well, I did reread the posts that you're referring to & I can't find any that criticize you personally for driving a Maxima. Shipo merely pointed out that the latest generation Max isn't available with a stick & that in his eyes it's not as sporty as the earlier versions. All he was doing was expressing his opinion, which he has a right to do, & you went after him with a shotgun. You're too thin-skinned.

    I'm going to pull rank on you - you've been a member only since '09, but I've been here since '98 - & suggest that you calm down & have a little fun. We're here to entertain ourselves - nothing more. If someone actually learns something along the way, that's frosting on the cake, but that's not what attracts us in the 1st place. In my case, I can't go outside - not before my wife finishes shoveling the snow that fell last night - there's nothing good on TV & it's too early to start drinking. (This all sounds familiar. Didn't I point this out to you once before?)

    No matter what you drive, someone, somewhere will have an opinion about it that you won't like. Shrug it off.
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