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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    The '94 is essentially worthless to everyone but me. I think I'll keep it; it's just too good of an utilitarian vehicle to be without. Its interior is like new, it's on the original 4-speed ECT (158K), and the engine (3.3L OHV V6) still is in good shape with very little oil consumption between the 3K oil changes.

    Thank you for the info!! I've seen posts on here that domestics don't last long term. Usually there's no basis for the belief, all you have to do is say it to make it true. You take care of your car, it'll take care of you.
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    While y'all mull over the importance of Stow and Go read this:

    NHTSA said it's probing air bags on 410,000 of DCX's 2005 minivans. The NHTSA minivan inquiry covers Chrysler Town & Country and Dodge Caravan and Grand Caravan models, for which five complaints have been received that an air-bag crash sensor failed, NHTSA said.

    So, while your van is full of "stuff" on your nice, flat floor, your face, head and upper torso have been flung through the windshield.

    Wouldn't most of you prefer that your airbags go off in a crash? And, based on an earlier discussion about how just a few complaints on here equal widespread flaws in Honda vans, you would have to agree that five failed airbag deployments represents a horrific flaw in the DCX vans.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    "..your face, head and upper torso have been flung through the windshield"

    Doubtful...if one had their seatbelt on no part of the body would be flung through the windshield.

    But, yes...in a crash I would prefer that my airbags go off. Though I would not yet jump to any conclusions about any "flaws" until the study is complete.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    Though I would not yet jump to any conclusions about any "flaws" until the study is complete.

    That is like saying "Even though this airline has a terrible maintenance record they have not had a crash so I can fly safely".

    My primary reason for posting the original message was to show some of the Honda bashers who claim a couple of posts on here equal a massive latent defect in the Odyssey. Apparently NHTSA feels that way about 400,000+ DCX minis based on five complaints.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Remember that the Odyssey was THE ONLY minivan in which a door flew open during a side impact crash test. :sick:
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    Yes but that situation was corrected. I have not heard of any airbag misfires on the Odyssey.

    I remember my 1989 Festiva having a seatbelt recall. Ford had Festiva owners bring the car to the dealer for replacement of defective latches. Since the parts were on back order Ford gave me a loaner to use for six weeks until the parts arrived. It was a safety issue and Ford did not want the liability in case of an accident. Shouldn't DCX do the same? A safety system failure should be cause to park the vehicle until repair can be made.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    I have not heard of any airbag misfires on the Odyssey.

    Maybe you haven't but someone obviously has:

    2005 Honda Odyssey Touring NHTSA Recall ID Number: 05V344000
    Recall Date: AUG 01, 2005
    Component: AIR BAGS:FRONTAL:SENSOR/CONTROL MODULE
    Potential Units Affected: 85154
    Summary: THE FRONTAL AIR BAG SYSTEM HAS TWO EXTERNAL IMPACT SENSORS. ON CERTAIN MINI VANS,SOME SENSORS WERE INSUFFICIENTLY SEALED DURING MANUFACTURING. IF WATER ENTERS A SENSOR, CORROSION CAN OCCUR. CORRODED SENSORS COULD SHORT CIRCUIT INTERNALLY. IF SENSORS FAIL, THE SRS WARNING LAMP ON THE INSTRUMENT PANEL WILL TURN ON AND REMAIN ILLUMINATED.
    Consequence: FRONT IMPACT SENSOR FAILURE COULD CAUSE A DELAY IN, OR LOSS OF, FRONTAL AIR BAG DEPLOYMENT, WHICH CAN INCREASE THE RISK OF INJURY IN A FRONTAL CRASH.
    Remedy: DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE FRONT IMPACT SENSORS. THE RECALL BEGAN ON AUGUST 30, 2005. OWNERS SHOULD CONTACT HONDA AT 1-800-999-1009.
    Notes: AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO., P80


    I wouldn't be surprised if these two issues are related somehow...maybe same supplier?
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    Owners of these affected Odysseys should be able to park them at a dealer and get a loaner until the fix is made. Honda must have bought the sensors from DCX :)
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    "I have not heard of any airbag misfires on the Odyssey"

    Per the Louisville Courier Journal...in the DCX case the NHTSA stated they had "recieved 5 complaints claiming failure in 2005 model year minivans of the front air bag crash sensors. The complaints said dealers replaced the front crash sensors after receiving questions about the air bag warning lamp iluminating. Field reports indicate the sensors may have failed because of corrosion."

    So, there were no accidental "misfires".
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    If a DCX van is in a wreck and the bags fail to inflate that would be a misfire.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    If a Honda van is in a wreck and the bags fail to inflate that would be a misfire.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Agree with dennis but CR would just ignore the facts and continue to list the Odyssey as their most highly recommended just as they ignore the fact that a door flew open during a side impact crash test. :sick:
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Agree with dennis but CR would just ignore the facts and continue to list the Odyssey as their most highly recommended just as they ignore the fact that a door flew open during a side impact crash test.

    Well seems like alot of places think the Odyssey is the highest rated van. They like all the features and driving dynamics. Let's see what Edmunds has to say about the 2006 minivan. It is the Editors most wanted for 2006.

    I like the review!

    Just as the New England Patriots have dominated professional football of late, Honda has virtually owned this segment since stealing the title from Chrysler in 1999. And 2006 is yet another championship year for the Odyssey. The Odyssey continues its tradition of carlike ride and handling, further enhanced by a stout structure and well-tuned suspension dynamics. If you're looking for a minivan that's enjoyable to drive in addition to being practical, Honda's van remains the leader in this area. The Honda Odyssey offers two V6 options. Both are 3.5-liter VTEC engines rated at 244 horsepower, and are mated to a five-speed automatic transmission.

    As far as the door flying open it still received a 5 star rating and it has been fixed for the 2006 model year.
  • fljoslinfljoslin Member Posts: 237
    I had a 1992 Grand Caravan (3.3L, 4 speed auto), purchased in 1995 with 70,000 miles and donated to charity in 2001 with 170,000 miles. The engine and trans ran fine when donated, F/R A/C (Freon 12) was awesome. The only real problem that I had was front axles. I used synthetic engine oil every 3k and changed the trans oil about once per year using synthetic Dextron III (Mobil 1). I replaced this vehicle with a 1995 Suburban which has 146,000 miles on it now and is a great rig except for the gas mileage (15 mpg hwy, 13 mpg city).
  • paukercpaukerc Member Posts: 14
    UGHHHHH. It's me again but I will blow all of your minds by posting a message 2 paragraphs or less. Impossible right?

    I think what needs to happen here is that once I receive my 2006 Grand Caravan SXT (Stow-n-Go), I'll post a message on this site 1 year from now and give you all a status on my opinion of it. We will go over how many problems I have or don't have, how much I used or didn't use stow-n-go and the special options I either liked or didn't care for. At any rate, my opinion would be unbiased cause I'm not really out to say Dodge or Honda is better than one another. And I would give some good facts based on my experiences not magazines. But then again, I might put Kiplinger and all of these other magazines out of business by telling the truth, not selling hype.

    After all, if I was an editor of any of those magazines.. I sure could sell alot of vans, just based on my opinion. I'm sure my phone would be lighting up with incentives and special deals from automakers to test drive and give a push for one of their vehicles. Sounds like a cushy job to me. As cushy as the seats. :)
  • paukercpaukerc Member Posts: 14
    ClaireS,

    I was just trying to have some fun with it.. make fun of the situation. I really think all of these people have honest opinions. They just really support and back in what they believe. I have my own opinions about things other than Vans and cars and I would be just like all of them arguing points. I guess that's better than just letting it all go and just believing what everyone tells us. When we get to that point.. we surely have lost are freedoms.

    And now a PR annoucement from Kiplinger on what van to buy and why. :)
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    I'll post a message on this site 1 year from now and give you all a status on my opinion of it. We will go over how many problems I have or don't have, how much I used or didn't use stow-n-go and the special options I either liked or didn't care for.

    My first year is coming up in Dec....so far not a single problem, I usually have stow n go seats folded into floor. Have used them about 30% of the time. I hate the sliding climate controls and moving seats forward to use stow n go. I love my power rear hatch and side doors and sunroof. I have about 8500 miles on her, with typical MPG of 21mpg....short trips up to Sam's. I also love the way she tows my camper...piece of cake!

    BTW, these car rag editors don't live in the real world either. Very few of them own cars (other than show cars), or own the cars they review. They have a huge lot of cars to pick from daily.
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    The only difference between the opinions of car magazine editors and anyone else is that they get paid for having an opinion. Since many of the accolades given most vehicles is based on subjective criteria, a good portion of public opinion will likely not match. For example, I cannot think of one car, mini-van or truck that has receive praise for seat comfort from opinion-for-hire magazine folks that I found comfortable. I find that ride, too, is usually subjective.

    In any event, given enough time any crown will fall, especially from complacency. And nowadays the last one in with new product usually trumps the field.

    Dusty
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Very few of them own cars (other than show cars), or own the cars they review.

    So people who don't own the car shouldn't talk about it?? Sounds good to me LOL!!!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Very few of them own cars (other than show cars), or own the cars they review.

    So people who don't own the car shouldn't talk about it?? Sounds good to me LOL!!!

    My point is they don't live in the real world. Just like the Auto execs here in Detroit. They constantly get new cars to drive, drive em from their lush homes in West Bloomfield MI, to the office where they're cleaned and detailed daily, if there are service issues, they just get a new one, never having to take it to a dealership for service themselves.

    Same for auto rag editors and writers. Very few of them actually own real car, most have "toys" and use what's in the Car & Driver garage the rest of the time.

    I can only think of 2 writers who actually are real people with real cars.....it's a husband and wife team - He Drove, She Drove. Check out their articles...they're fun to read.

    He Drove, She Drove
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
  • paukercpaukerc Member Posts: 14
    That's very comforting to know, no problems and you like it. I'm sure I will too. I wondered how much fun it would be to have to move the front seats to use stow-n-go. I guess it's like anything else it gets to be a habit and rhythm. The power hatch and sliding doors are very nice. I wanted the sunroof but to save money we opted out of that.. would have been nice. I've never had a sunroof in any care I have ever owned.

    For all you knowledgeable people.. if a sunroof is installed from the manufacturer how many problems have you heard of people having with them leaking? I've always curious about that. I mean the first thing anyone says when they hear sunroof is.. oh but they leak after a while. I'm thinking that's a wise tale else why would they still be making them?

    BTW, these car rag editors don't live in the real world either. Very few of them own cars (other than show cars), or own the cars they review. They have a huge lot of cars to pick from daily.

    Agreed.
  • paukercpaukerc Member Posts: 14
    Well said.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Actally I thoought the articles are very good. They talk mostly about the good things on the car that people like. The Dodge is more utility and price oriented. The Ody is more Handling/Comfort. Thanks for the links.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    With the exception of my pickups, pretty much every car/minivan/suv I've owned in the last 15 years had a sunroof. I usually keep my business car around a long time and have never had problems. My first two camrys went 200k miles, and my current Jetta has over 130k miles. Even those long termers have never had sunroof problems.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Though He Drove/She Drove didn't review the DGC it was a good review for both Ody and Sienna. Though I wonder why they test drove the $39,000 Ody Touring and only the mid-level Sienna LE $29,000. Can't say I blame them though...the interior of the Ody Touring is spectacular.
    And for 40 grand it had better be. ;)
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Though I wonder why they test drove the $39,000 Ody Touring and only the mid-level Sienna LE $29,000.

    Usually the manufacturer gives you what they want you to review or what's available. You don't get much of a choice, especially small time writers, vs a Car & Driver type of magazine.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Can't say I blame them though...the interior of the Ody Touring is spectacular.
    And for 40 grand it had better be.


    I saved my pennies for 5 years but I went with the EX-L under 30K because the touring was too expensive for me! It's got a few things I would have liked, but is missing some I don't need or want. I like the EX-L interior and it is very comfortable. I like the color too Sagebrush pearl and I had better because I'll be driving it for 10 years. ;)
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    "...I had better because I'll be driving it for 10 years"

    Same here...10 years or 100,000 miles. Whichever comes first. :shades:
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    The Touring Ody has the same interior as the EX-L so beyond a few extra gizmos/buttons there wouldn't have been any difference comparing the interiors. The only glaring omission from the Touring is the 8th passenger seat which is why I didn't buy one. I would have gladly stepped up the cash for the extra gizmos, but the 8th seat was a requirement (i was "downgrading" from a 9-passenger vehicle to begin with).
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Just out of curiosity :confuse: , what is the age and weight of the person who normally rides on the middle seat of the 2nd row in your Odyssey Touring?
  • paukercpaukerc Member Posts: 14
    That's nice to know.. hearing those tales about sun roofs is kind of like all of the other things people say.. like how to never buy a black van or any black car.

    It's hot, it shows dirt more than others (what car doesn't show dirt) etc... I thought the black van looked sporty, sharp.. something different than the standard, Silver, tan, red or white vans I see all over the place. It has tinted windows.. the seating is dark grey along with the dash so that reduces heat. I just want to be different than everyone else.. yet the first thing I hear out of anybody's mouth is.. you bought black.

    It's hots, it shows dirt more than others.. blah blah.. well you get the idea. :) So it sounds like sun roofs are nice so I won't worry about that next time around. Thanks
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Just out of curiosity , what is the age and weight of the person who normally rides on the middle seat of the 2nd row in your Odyssey Touring?

    It varies. We generally have two uses for this vehicle. One is a shuttle to the airport as we have three kids in college all over the country (five kids total) and sometimes we're packed to the ceiling We're between 1.25 and 2.5 hours from the airport, depending on which one so it's usually a decent trip. Usually one of the daughters or my wife sits there as both boys are my size (6'4-200ish). The gals are all average size, 5'7ish 130-150 I would guess (can't ask right??).

    The other use is when we take the grandkids (and sometimes my oldest son and his wife on trips. The center seat is great for entertaining/feeding/etc the youngest. it made the deal for us, I wouldn't want to not be able to have the wife slide back there when the baby gets mad.

    I've heard folks say they didn't think it was a comfortable seat, but I don't see where it's any different than the middle of any other vehicle. We came out of a Tahoe that was used for the same thing, but the Ody has more usable space and is far more convenient. I put my butt in that seat once after I heard someone here complain about it, and my only real complaint would be that the headrest doesn't extend high enough for someone my height. The only passenger I've had complain about it was a rather large (around) friend of my daughter-in-law who jumped in between a carseat and a booster for a short trip to a restaurant. She had trouble latching the seatbelt, but she was also too big to get to the 3rd row through the space where you fold-slide the 2nd row bucket. I think folks that big would have to be used to being crammed into pretty much any vehicle.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    THANKS. I would prefer to ride sitting on the Odyssey 8th seat (middle seat of 2nd row) than sitting on the middle seat of ANY sedan. (I have not been in a Maybach, Rolls, or other high end sedan).
    One condition: The arm rests of the outer seats must be raised and the fore-aft the same as the middle seat...which is easily arranged. ;)
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    It reminded me when I test drove the ody on a narrow twisty road. The sales person was kind of scared, but my wife commented afterwards that the van handles very well and it took very little effort from me to drive through the test route.

    Same can't be said when I test drove the sienna and the dodge.

    The 8th seat in the ody is not bad if you're under 5'6 and not supersized. Basically your preteen kids will be fine even for a longer drive. Resting the feet on the fold down tray with a cushion is very comfortable for the 8th seat passenger but strictly forbidden in my van.
  • fish8fish8 Member Posts: 2,282
    Chrysler's new incentive program.

    Just wanted to share:

    Sounds very sweet!!

    The program offers:
    Chrysler's "Miles of Freedom" program runs from Monday, Nov. 21, through Jan. 3. It was revealed to dealers at meetings here on Thursday.

    A debit card for $2,400 -- the amount of money Chrysler calculates is needed to buy 12,000 miles worth of gasoline for two years at the Chrysler group's corporate average fuel economy rate of 21.8 mpg. The plan is based on a $2.15 per gallon price of gasoline.
    Free scheduled maintenance for as many as 24,000 miles.
    A five-year, 60,000-mile full mechanical warranty, compared with the standard three-year, 36,000-mile warranty.

    Excluded from the program are the 2005 and 2006 Chrysler 300; Dodge Viper, Magnum, Charger and Sprinter; and all SRT8 vehicles.

    Customers can choose existing Chrysler rebates instead of the program, Murphy said. Those rebates range from $1,000 to $7,000 cash back on 2005 and 2006 models, Senior Vice President of Sales Gary Dilts said. The existing rebates are scheduled to end on Nov. 30.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Sounds kind of fishy...fish. What happens with the debit card with families(one or two car) that don't go over 12,000 in a year of driving. Do they lose that money?
    Free scheduled maintenance for two years? Thats about 5 oil changes, 4 tire rotations, 2 air filter changes...about $250 retail. Two extra years of I assume bumper to bumper warranty...about $700. So, about $3,350 retail in compensation. Actual cost to Chrysler probably around $2,800. Probably in most cases will be more cost effecient to take the rebate.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    the maintainence bit would worth a lot of money if it's offered by audi or vw

    the bumper to bumper is the right direction after canceling the 7/75

    but that is a brilliant way to slow down the depreciation of dc products!
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    I would prefer the cash discount. DC better retain a warranty at least as long as Toyota and Honda. :P
  • fish8fish8 Member Posts: 2,282
    "What happens with the debit card with families(one or two car) that don't go over 12,000 in a year of driving. Do they lose that money?"

    I think you missed something or didnt read the fine print. The $2400 debit card is exactly that, a $2400 debit card. They just were advising how they calculated the $2400. They NEVER indicated that if you don't drive 12K miles you get the card prorated. Also, I think the additional warranty specifically states that it is a mechanical warranty, not bumper to bumper. Witht he B2B seats that are defective are covered, a rear view mirror falling off is covered and so on.......these would not be "mechanical" in nature. Transmission, engine, AC and so forth would be mechanical I guess.

    I am also guessing you can get additional discount other than this deal.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    In order to sell cars. They have their customers so well trained to expect rebates and other gimmicks that they HAVE to continue. They have created a monster.

    So who REALLY pays for these "free" perks?

    The people who buy them of course. No free lunch it's all factored into the price of the cars.
  • just4fun2just4fun2 Member Posts: 461
    Everything that a person gets when they buy a car is factored into the price paid. Even the Honda warranty isn't free, it's in the price of the vehicle.

    So, what else is new?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    But a lot of people think all of these items are some kind of a bonus. A lot of "fluff" in those MSRP's!

    Who's kidding who?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    A lot of "fluff" in those MSRP's!


    That "fluff" pays your salary and mine doesn't it? Maybe DCX is willing to take a lot less margins to increase market share?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    But that's O.K.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    That "fluff" pays your salary and mine doesn't it? Maybe DCX is willing to take a lot less margins to increase market share?

    But in reality they aren't gaining market share they are losing it. In 2004 YTD ending in oct DCX sold 316,906 total vans, the Honda Odyssey sold 126,297. That a 2.51 to 1 ratio. In 2005 YTD ending in october DCX sold 346,020 vans, Honda Odyssey sold 145,755. Thats a 2.37 to 1 ratio. The increase in sales from 2004 to 2005 for DCX 9.2%. For Honda Odyssey it's 15.4%. Thats with DCX coming up with the stow and go, with employee pricing and Honda not discounting much. Look out 2006 could be a LONG year! I think the next DCX version van is gonna be sweet with all the things I wanted. But I'll tell ya something this is my LAST minivan! ;)
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    "Thats with DCX coming up with the stow and go..."

    True...but didn't Honda come out with a totally redesigned Odyssey for 2005. ;)
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    There are parts of this country where drving an "import" isn't the thing to do.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    My 2002 T&C LX will NOT be my last minivan. ;)
    I know many people who have owned 2 or 3 Chrysler (now DaimlerChrysler) minivans because they love their DC minivans.
    One friend still has his 1998 Sienna he got so he could sell his Previa to his daughter. He too, says that he will always own a minivan. ;)
    It would be interesting to see how many Odyssey owners are also repeat Odyssey buyers.
This discussion has been closed.