Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

markcincinnati · October 2011

To get an Audi in the A4 body style WITH torque vectoring (aka Sport Differential), one would need to move up the ladder to the S4 -- and, typically, the one with the Sport Differential and Audi Drive Select, etc, etc, etc, will be closer to $60,000.

I was very pleased to get an all tarted up TL Advance SH-AWD with accessories for under $48K -- and although it still isn't an S4, it presents itself very well in the class of cars we go on about here as well as being able to perform with near S4 capabilities.

I'm still in my loaner TSX -- and wondering why Acura doesn't offer the thing with SH-AWD; seems it would be a killer car based on what -- a $2,000+ bump for the AWD? :confuse:

nyccarguy · October 2011

I think be because the TL is the bread & butter of the Acura lineup. Acura probably doesn't want the "lesser" TSX to steal sales from the TL. The TSX is Acura's entry level car (that actually has more trunk space than the TL). They want you to buy (or lease) a TSX, then trade up to a base TL a few years later, then to a TL SH AWD not too long after that, & be so happy with the cars/brand that you buy (or lease) an MDX for your wife every few years.

A V6 TSX Tech Stickers for high $30's. Add SH-AWD to that and you've got a close to $40K TSX. Maybe come trade up time you say "I like my TSX SH-AWD, but don't think the TL SH AWD warrants the price jump.". Maybe you go look at Infiniti or BMW or MB...

I'm not comparing the cars, but kinda like the reason Porsche messes with the Cayman's gearing and won't give it too big a motor to protect the 911.

tlong · October 2011

The TSX V6 is too nose heavy to compete with anything in the class and you'd have to really hate the base TL to buy a TSX V6 with a similar MSRP (even though the V6 TSX is loaded with incentives most of the time).

Where does the TSX go from here? You can't give it more power because it will torque steer like crazy. You can't give it Acura's SH-AWD because that will add weight and price.

IMHO where they should go from here is to the previous model TSX, which was great before they numbed and bloated it up.

sweendogy · October 2011

Dido - the tsx was great in it's early form or even integra form. Value plus sport - newer models are bloated like Josh Beckett/ sired they perform good but will never beat a good team with the playoffs on the line.

nyccarguy · October 2011

I agree the Acura is much more refined than the Infiniti. I had an opportunity to drive my Uncle's G37X sedan. Besides being an absolute road rocket, I was ultra impressed with the car's balance & handling. Felt like the car was turning on an axis.

graphicguy · October 2011

nyc.....I've made a couple of stabs at testing a G. They're good cars. They kind of cover the gamut. The G25 targets the TSX, probably an A4 and a 328i. The G37 seems to target 335i. I believe the TL SH AWD is up the ladder a little from the G, however. While the G37 is fast, I feel my 335i is faster with more neutral handling and a better ride. Refinement in both the TL and the 3 are much higher than in the G.

So, as mentioned before, the G tries to cover a lot of ground.

My fear (and one of the main reasons I bought the '11 3) is that BMW is moving towards 4 cyl motors, at least in the lower 3s and 5s. Nothing inherently wrong with that. Audi's been doing that for years with their A4. But, some of us feel at that price point, a 6 cyl is the least we'd accept.

Mark...I tried to find an S4 at both The Audi Connection and in Dayton. All they had were used ones. As you say, you get about 95%+ of an S4 in the TL SH AWD, for a whole lot less money. Interesting enough, the Cincinnati Audi dealer never seems to have much in the way of new cars....a few A4s, a few A6s....one A7 and a splattering of the Qs. Nothing that grabbed me. And, I went there probably 3-4 times over a 3-4 month period. The guys at Beechmont had 3-S4s, and a whole lot of A4s, but I just couldn't bring myself to pay a premium over my TL SH AWD when push came to shove.

Now, if either of them had stocked an A5 or S5 (which they didn't), my decision might have been different. The only A5s they had were convertibles and I don't think the new S5 was out yet.

markcincinnati · October 2011

The Audi Connection, in particular, seems to be adopting (not voluntarily) the European (at least the German) way of buying a car: visit dealer, look at the model you are interested in, get a brochure, place an order, wait. No instant gratification there -- here, on the other hand, we decide, "let's go buy a new car. . .TODAY!" and we're off to the races.

We leave our houses late on a Saturday morning, go test drive a car or two and by the time the day is out, we've picked the car and while it is being prepped, we sign the paperwork and we end our day driving home in our new car -- we even stop at the grocery store on the way home and at a Chinese restaurant for some take out.

Sometimes it almost seems we will invest more time buying a riding lawn mower at Lowes.

The Germans, on the other hand, have to wait for the car (typically.)

I was lucky that the AC had a basically stripped S4 in stock a few months ago (an '11). It didn't even have nav (at THAT price). It had the DSG tranny and it had, apparently, HUGE urge. It felt more, er, "raw" than either the A4 (non sport) or the TL, although at full cry the TL's 3.7L motor makes a pleasing sound (much better than the 4cyl of the A4 2.0T). The great thing about the Audi's is that they use FSI and are either Super or Turbo charged. Imagine for 30 seconds what the TL 3.7 SH-AWD would be like if it had a near zero lag turbo and was upgraded to direct injection and the same friction reducing steps that the 3.5L now enjoys.

Acura -- should it choose to do so -- could offer, um, a "TL/S" with these upgrades, plus bi-xenons, better shoes, much better brakes (Brembo's with the cool looking caliper covers), full needle sweep on start-up and even better turn in. Perhaps it could move the AWD bias from 90/10 f/r to 50/50 and add a couple of visual cues beyond the "/S" on the trunk lid (subtle visual cues that only Acura aficionados would appreciate.) I'd probably suggest a model specific wheel too -- like the Advance 19" wheel, only different.

Perhaps this would add too much to the MSRP and the Acura Advantage (VALUE) would, for many, vanish and they would get the SLine A4 or the S4 or the Volvo S60 R Design, or even the Bimmer.

I would argue if the changes were offered at reasonable prices (if the economics permit), there would be an audience for a more performance oriented TL. After all, look at the performance leanings of -- wait for it -- Lexus for pity's sake, LEXUS!

Sir your High Performance La-Z-Boy is ready. Never thought THAT would happen!

C'mon Acura -- you've clearly got some great engines (thinking of Indy cars, for example) in your DNA, let 'em out. Let My people go.

:surprise:

flightnurse · October 2011

The price of the G cars have gone up to a point that makes a BMW is better choice. For the price of my 2011 328i out the door, was the same price for a base G37, my 328 isn't a base car. So price was the advantage of the G car but that isn't happening today. So why would someone get a G37 when you can get a BMW for the same price... The BMW for me is a much more refined car then the G, and the Car mag's have stated the same thing.

markcincinnati · October 2011

The G37, from a performance perspective, is more comparable to the 335, not the 328.

Go on-line to Infiniti and select a G37 or 37X (and you can, if you like even go for the "S" models). Crank the options to 11 and you will find the G remains available with an MSRP that begins with a "$4" -- with a 328HP engine and Premium Package, Navigation Package, Sport Package, Technology Package, Interior Accents Packge, Rear Decklid Spoiler and Midnight Black Grille Package, Splash Guards, Stainless Steel Illuminated Kick Plates, LED Daytime Running Lights and Interior Accent Lighting all for an MSRP of: $46,940.

This car IMHO is not comparable to a BMW 328.

Now, I am not in any way suggesting that the BMW is not a "superior" vehicle (Car & Driver, despite loving the G, loves the BMW even more). Many magazine writers do opine that Infiniti's G37 and G37X are Japanese Bimmer competitors, but they almost always place the G in the #2 spot.

Well, hell, try to equip the comparable BMW 3 (which has to be a 335) at the level of the G above -- it can't be done if one of the constraints is "to keep the BMW's MSRP under $50,000."

Again, I am not suggesting that the BMW is #2 in this contest -- I am simply suggesting that a G equipped as above would show a 328 its tail lights and would be able to keep up with a 335, although the Bimmer would probably show the Infiniti it's butt quite a bit of the time.

But if you're looking for VALUE, the Infiniti must be at the top of the list.

A G37 (X or not) can be very well equipped and with its 3.7L motor and 7spd auto transmission can be both a comfortable commuter and, to use an over-used term, a pocket-rocket.

For the price, the Bimmer just can't cut it, despite its many superior attributes -- remember, I said "for the price."

Additionally, the G's have very very attractive lease programs -- often better than BMW's attractive programs.

:shades:

billyperksii · October 2011

Mark- you are funny- I like your style of writng.

fedlawman · October 2011

"IMHO where they should go from here is to the previous model TSX, which was great before they numbed and bloated it up."

I agree.

fedlawman · October 2011

"I've taken a couple of stabs at liking Infinitis. None of them ever made it to the top of my "want it" list. I think they lack the refinement I got used to with Acuras, BMWs ,etc."

I think you hit the nail on the head.

To me, Infiniti's seem like second rate BMW's. The G37 is fast and handles well, but they haven't nailed down the refinement.

Acura, on the other hand, stays true to being a characteristically Japanese sport/luxury car. There's no attempt to try to be anything but what it is.

By the way, is that you over at AVS talking about the 4311?

sweendogy · October 2011

Hasnt nailed down refinement. - I agree not as refined as an Audi of BMW - and I do agree the Acura is more refined like lexas then the Infiniti G_ but interns of performance Acura has nothing compared to Infiniti. Acura stays true- sure they are true to compete with the Lexus Es. Not BMW. Sorry way wrong- they have not produced a car in 10 years that was sport- NsX died a long time ago so did the Acura "sports" claim. I would also wonder what Honda does with this brand- no hybrid, no coupe, no convert, no sports supercar, no flagship sedan- look at all the leaders, Audi, BMW, Lexus. They have all of these - Acura not one. This could be the next Oldsmobile. ( write that down)

smarty666 · October 2011

I agree, the price of the G has risen a little bit over the last few year, but I don't agree that the best bang for your buck is the BMW, yet that is. The G37 compares to the 335 and not the 328. If you did make the comparison you are, your 328i is going to lack almost 100hp, bi-xenon headlights, navigation, and a couple of other little toys and tech you only get in the 335 when ordered that your getting for the same price in the G37. I do agree though that the BMW is more refined then the G, but definitely not the best bang for the buck yet.

I'm eagerly awaiting the next gen 2013 G and 3 series. It should be interesting to see what Infiniti and BMW do with their bread and butter vehicles.

kyfdx · October 2011

Stopped by to look at the G series today.... we were a little too ragged out to drive one....

But, they have decent lease deals.. 39mo./39K lease on a G37X with premium pkg (MSRP about $41K) for $440/mo.+tax.. with around $900 total due at signing.. Add sport package for another $10/mo.

That's better than Audi or BMW, right now.. and.. 328 HP...

flightnurse · October 2011

Yes the G37 has 100 more HP, but as I wrote what I paid for my 328 is very close to the base price of a G37, there is no way you are going to get Nav, bi-xenon headlights or other goodies that I have on my 328 in that G37. The base price for a G37S is far more then what I paid for my 328i.

Now if one wants to compare the average price of a 335i to a G37S the BMW is better value.

sweendogy · October 2011

which base did you beat the G37 which is 37k even or the 41500 for a fully loaded G37S-- you lost me because you mentioned both..with haggling you can get a G for 2-4k off each car given the dealer. how much did you pay, was this a cpo?

does your car have the sports package, navi, rear camera like the G37s has?
does your car have the headlights, sunroof, leather, and paint (500bux extra for Bmw) that the G37 base has?

I dont have the avg price people are paying for the 335 or the G37S but given the options that are standard on the G its got to be close to 8k..maybe more--i own a G and want a 335-

m6user · October 2011

Just did a quick build on each website and the 328xi comparably equipped(as I could get) was about $5k more than the G37x. Plus you get the +100hp to boot with the G. The 328 may be a little better driver and smoother runner but for value it's hard to beat the G. Infinitis are extremely reliable and trouble free for the most part. I have one(QX4) that is 9 years old and it has had only two repairs(exhaust resonator and power antenna) other than scheduled maint.

smarty666 · October 2011

Nah, they are taking 4k off a fully loaded G37 at my two local Infiniti dealers and I'll bet it is similar in discounts your received on your 328i so the G still in all trims is a better bang for your buck then the 328i. Also a G37 is fully loaded with nav, sport, etc for around 44k, before any discounts. It still undercuts the 335i in price. As almost all the 335i my local BMW has are priced in the high 40s to low 50s. The G even undercuts that price.

I'm not saying the 328i or 335i are bad vehicles, in fact I really liked them when I test drove both but they still don't compare to the bang for buck of G.

wireless · October 2011

Something I noticed this weekend when reading a somewhat favorable review of the 2012 Acura TL: They have a new 3.7L engine with 305 HP @6000 rpm and 273 pound-feet @5000 rpm.

How is it that the MB C350 (pretty much the same price) has a 3.5L and it has 302 HP @6500 rpm with 273 pound-ft @3500 rpm. One thing I would give Honda is that they were always able to wring the HP out of their small engines even if they had to rev them to 9k rpms. Now they need an engine almost 6% larger just to match MB and the peak torque is at a relatively high 5k rpm.

flightnurse · October 2011

I think you are assuming too much, each region is completely different when it comes to discount, rebates, leases and equipment. I know here on the west side of the country Infiniti is hurting for cars, so discounts are far and few. So when I do a comparison its done with the fact of what the prices were I live.

The Base price for a G37 is $36K, and it does not come with Nav, now to add the Tech package to get Nav and Sport package is $41K. This was more then my 328 with M sport package.

The G37 sport is 41K..

Just for the record my BMW is 328i with M sport package, with value package which includes leather, ipod connection (free) moonroof, and access entry, cost out the door was $37K. This includes 4yr 50K of free maintenance and service, I tend to run my BMWs hard and go through brakes, the clutch is covered under BMWs warranty so if needed, I wont have to pay anything, something Infiniti does not do.

sweendogy · October 2011

good luck with the 328i nice car with the M package. If your looking at 6speed manuals which i love, btw, the infiniti fully loaded is 41k, there is not add on packages to get-whats in the box is in the box if you get the G with the manual.. and your right certain areas are offer different discounts BUT you have to remember BMW 3 series is changing for 2012 and the company wants all stock out the door. Now the maintenance is interesting... if you are like me and don't drive say 8-10k miles a year your looking at 1 tire rotation and 2 oilchanges a year- and if you are looking at somewhat equal cars (335) the 5-8-10k (whatever the dollar amt is) is not worth the free maintenace that all bmw owner crow about. Trust me I have the G and have spent 500 bux total in 4years- they run like tops.

graphicguy · October 2011

Having test driven the G37x (coupe) and bought a 335i xDrive, I can say that the 3 has more HP than BMW is claiming. Plus, it's usable power, all through the rev range. The G is a good car. But, comparatively, the 335 is very easy to drive very fast. Still, not a bad car between the two.

kyfdx...I had mentioned you can get BMW's factory performance upgrade for the 335 to add 20 HP for $600. I just got it done on Friday. Made an amazing car "amaziner".

kyfdx · October 2011

Nice!

sweendogy · October 2011

nice graphguy-- i would do 600 bux for an extra 20hp- -that seems like a good deal-- at 320 + claimed HP.. Thats some major power. but in reading articles its seems bmw is trying to move current inventory and using this as part of the bait to buy a 2011.. so it seems the 2012 335 will haven even more HP. Keep going BMW cant wait to get my next G with 400 hp or more..

graphicguy · October 2011

I debated the upgrade. I agree that BMW is readying for the new 3.

But, 20 HP is 20 HP. I liked the car enough to buy it to begin with. I like it more now.

markcincinnati · October 2011

At the price point and at the "class" (ELLPS) we are talking about, the value leaders remain Infiniti and Acura. More content and by some definition, I'm sure, more car for the money when you're comparing Infiniti to BMW (which seems to be the comparison that "everybody" makes); I think I'll compare Acura to Audi, for the time being -- it seems somehow to work for me.

The G37XS was a car I wanted to like -- but I was smitten with the M37X which seems to me to be priced (lease price per month) at about what an Audi A4 2.0T Prestige goes for or what a BMW 335 (with x-drive and a fair amount of options) goes for. The G37XS after coming from an Audi A4 (2009 vintage) seemed "cramped" -- too narrow and with, apparently, no expanse of hood to speak of.

Yet, the G was pretty well loaded and was very spunky -- gobs of power, albeit with a little harshness as the RPM's moved toward red-line (neither the Audi or BMW engine seem harsh.) Had the car been at least 2" WIDER, I might have gone Infiniti rather than Acura. I certainly feel Infiniti, as a brand, has the LPS "vision" (whatever the hell THAT means) whereas neither Lexus nor Acura seem to have much of a clue.

But, I got behind the wheel of the TL Advance and it WAS wider, I could see a hood out through the front window and there was no harshness in the engine compartment and the sound of the 3.7L at full cry is quite pleasing. Too bad the TL isn't quite as quick feeling as the G -- but man, the TL has the G in smoothness -- the TL is like butta!

I am growing, slowly, very slowly, to accept the looks of the TL (exterior), I am pleased with the interior -- the seats are almost Audi quality and they are ventilated (a must have, I am almost embarrassed to say.)

The TL is -- on paper -- damn near the perfect definition of an ELLPS (but ONLY in Advance trim or Tech trim with a 6 speed, based on reviews -- and ONLY if it is SH-AWD equipped.) Here's a 1,500 mile review:

Smooth and quiet: check
Feels bigger than it is: check
Is, technially, bigger than some of the others in this class: check, check
Best factory sound system ever: check
Very quick, very responsive transmission (especially with the paddle shifters): check
Thick, meaty steering wheel, great "sporty" seats: check, check
Feature set is at least as good as the other ELLPS's: check
Torque Vectoring reduces (a lot) the sensation of understeer: check
Decent Gas Mileage (combined 26 according to the center display): check (this thing is almost stingy with gas, in fact): check

And the list of positive attributes could go on and on.

I do like driving the TL -- very much -- I don't regret getting it, especially at $499/mo plus tax, and, so far, the dealer seems terrific (Lindsay Acura, Columbus, Oh.)

However, the sum of its parts pretty much equals, er, the sum of its parts. Audi and BMW (and I'll assume Mercedes) somehow seem to imbue their cars with "something" that makes them feel like MORE than the sum of their parts.

It's not that the TL seems flimsy or not stiff and firm -- it does. But there is something that is lacking -- something that a new A4 Prestige Sport or a new 335 x-drive will have and you will notice instantly. In some ways, for the price, the TL outdoes (content wise) both Audi and BMW by a wide margin. In other ways, the TL seems like the best damn appliance Electrolux ever made -- take it away Kelly Ripa! 34 payments to go. . . :surprise:

Klikie Klikie

graphicguy · October 2011

Mark....you and I have the same tastes and opinions. I agree with your entire assessment. Although, I liked the styling of the TL. It was bold, and not to be confused with anything else. That was a winner in my book.

Who knows, another TL may grace the GG estate in the future. It just won't be in the near future.

Have fun with your TL. Sounds like you're really starting to enjoy it.

markcincinnati · October 2011

Mine is pearl white -- and since it is a 2012, the beak is pretty much subdued to begin with and in white, the effect of the beak reduction is even more so.

From the side with a slight angle so that you can see just a part of the front end, the thing looks good -- not great, but good. The changes to the rear were just what the doctor ordered too -- I don't really have too many complaints.

Overall the styling has risen to "OK" -- and when I'm behind the wheel on a twisty road with the transmission selector set to "S" and using the paddle shifters like I know what I'm doing (I don' really, of course), I have a big stupid grin on my face -- I'm already planning on new UHP super sticky tires to replace the kind of tepid tires the thing came with.

I'll bet new shoes will further transform my ugly duckling into. . .an only slightly homely swan? :confuse:

sweendogy · October 2011

cincyreadmark.. good review update on the TL- i agree the 2012 is better looking car and acura should fire the designers of the 08-11 editions. What took them so long to fix this thing.? I think this car as you outfitted is a solid midpack performer and if you add price in the formula it is a good option. The thing that surprised me was 26mpg - thats great.

flightnurse · October 2011

You are throwing the whole equation off by only driving few miles. The average person drives 15-20K a year. But we can agree to disagree.

flightnurse · October 2011

You may want to check out this company in Northern Ca, called Vishnu. They have made a name for themselves with the Subaru WRX but when BMW came with twin turbo engine they knew the potential how does 11.502 @ 125.893 for the 1/4 mile... Their upgrades are very reasonable for 40-60 RWH the cost is about $2000. This is what their website says:

Power gains will vary based upon available octane, additional modifications and conditions. Typical gains on an otherwise stock n54 powered BMW running on 91-93 octane fuel are 70-80 wheel horsepower and 80-90ft-lbs of torque. With additional basic modifications (exhaust, intercooler and intake upgrades) and higher octane racing fuel, gains of 160-170 wheel horsepower and 200-210ft-lbs of torque can be expected. With upgraded turbos, gains as high as 250whp are possible.

http://www.procedetuning.com/index.html

shabadoo25 · October 2011

They must have really upgraded the mpg. I got a combined 19 mpg in my 2010 AWD TL.

Great comment about how it leaves you happy but not thrilled. It's why I'm in a 335i now.

Definitely the best stereo ever.

sweendogy · October 2011

how much maintance does the bmw need to make up the difference between the car vs a less priced car for it to be a "better value"?

a dated article but interesting from a bmw site- i would take note at the costs associated on the last page with its prime competitors

http://www.bmwblog.com/2009/03/27/do-you-buy-your-car-based-on-free-maintenance-- - program/

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kyfdx · October 2011

Well.. prepaid scheduled maintenance plan for a C-Class or an A4 is around $800.. (but for just three years, not four), so that's one place to start... Mercedes says that's about a 30% discount from actual.. If that's the case, then you could extrapolate that to about $1500 for four years (to match BMW).

Also, most of the other plans don't cover brakes, if needed... so, another thing to factor in.. (in BMW's favor)..

nyccarguy · October 2011

Regarding maintenance - My TSX has just over 41K miles on it & I've had to take it in for 5 full synthetic oil changes + tire rotations @ around $100. The rear brakes had to be changed (I was partially reimbursed through a class action lawsuit). I had to have the front rotors resurfaced once already. That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

Mark - your TL SH AWD Advance shows a big benefit to leasing. The lease payment on your almost $50,000 TL Advanced is less than the payment on my Close to $34K TSX. YMMV - literally

graphicguy · October 2011

I know there are "tuner" companies out there that have installs to increase HP and/or torque.

Fact is, I don't track my car. The other "tuner" upgrades are interesting to read about, however.

The HP gains from BMW's "upgrade" really isn't noticeable. The torque upgrade is noticeable, however. And, I thought that $600 was a reasonable price for the upgrade...especially one developed and warranted by BMW.

For all intents and purposes, my 335i just became a 335is.

Plus, I think that BMW has under rated both the N55 power numbers that they publish officially. I've read they did the same on the N54 engine, too.

rayainsw · October 2011

"For all intents and purposes, my 335i just became a 335is."

'Performance Retrofit Stage 1 Kit Part # 11-12-2-219-488
For N55 engine
Horsepower increase from 300 to 320
Torque increase from 300 to 317 ft-lbs for a manual trans
Torque increase from 300 to 332 ft.-lbs for automatic trans'

This may sound like 'splitting hairs', but to me
[ for my intents and purposes ]
the 332 TQ for the BMW 'Stage 1 Kit' is not the same
as the 370 TQ [ in overboost ] of the 335iS.

It is as close as one can get, if you want \ need a 4DR 335i,
and you want something with a BMW wty,
and \ or you already purchased.

Then there is the DCT vs Steptronic,
if you do not want \ have the 6MT.

Just my 0.02 gallons worth . . .
But I digress.
- Ray
Ship carrying my 335iS due to depart Bremmerhaven
.... tomorrow

flightnurse · October 2011

As someone who drives his car on the hard side, I have had to have my brakes , clutch replaced by BWM and the cost for them was well over $3K, then add in the services I came out ahead. I also like knowing that I can make a reservation, pull up into the service bay, have my service manager scan the VIN, walk to his office, have me sign the work order be handed keys to a loaner and drive off (all under 30 minutes)

On my 05, I wasn't going to get the extended warranty but at the last minute jumped and did it. Glad I did, at 60K the water pump died, plus the 60K service was done.

flightnurse · October 2011

For roughly $1500 (which is far less then the price difference between a 335i and 335is) you can have your BMW make 350hp and 375lbs of torque be faster then a 335is and still get great mileage.

rayainsw · October 2011

'For roughly $1500 (which is far less then the price difference between a 335i and 335is) you can have your BMW make 350hp and 375lbs of torque be faster then a 335is and still get great mileage.'

Regarding price of the 335iS vs 335i 
Equipped the same [ 335iS includes M Sport pkg]:

W/manual trans. diff = $3,900
W/auto trans. diff = $4,100

For which one receives:

Plus 20 HP and plus 70 TQ [ burst of 7 seconds ]
 and associated, upgraded cooling equipment  fully backed by BMWs 4 year 50,000 mile warrantee. That aspect specifically is worth a lot, to me.
[ This is close to the Dinan Stage 1 tune MSRP = $1,700 ]
[ Note: the price of a Dinan upgraded oil cooler for a 335i with an OEM oil cooler is $1,499.00 ]

An exhaust system that sounds just wonderful  to me  not too quiet, not too loud. Would be over $1,500 + install $$s 
The BMW system list price is $1,691.18 + install.
The Dinan performance exhaust system is $1,899 + install  plus what do I do with the OEM system?

So [ for me ] the $4,100 difference is offset by
the following items that would need to be added
to a 335i to roughly equal a 335iS:
$1,700 for Dinan Stage 1
$1,500 for upgraded oil cooler [ plus install $$s ]
$1,700 for exhaust [ plus install $$s ]

So. Total difference in costs for the upgrades from a 335i to 335iS = $4,900 + install[s]
Available for the [ relative ] bargain upcharge of $4,100 w/DCT.
[ When I ordered. ]
OK with me. . .
- Ray
Other tuner comparisons I believe to be unfair 
due to the very real [ potential ] warrantee coverage issues. . .

billyperksii · October 2011

Mark, I have the same color with a few coats of Zaino on it.
Let me know the tires you are opting for maybe I will try them.

I have to disagree with you on the looks, I still think my 2009 looks better than the 2012. My sales guy called me over when they first came out, he was trying to sway me with the ventilated seats, blind spot and 6th speed, told him outright-NO.

IMHO- the new grill does not seem fitting to the overall make of the car (Wimpy-Grill). The car just seems to blend now (ordinary looking),at times I think its a TSX coming up the block.

markcincinnati · October 2011

ExtremeContact DWS(Ultra High Performance All-Season) $227ea.

shipo · October 2011

After eeking 48,000 miles out of a set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/Ss, I considered the ExtremeContactDWS tires as my next replacement set. Then I got a chance to drive a car with them on; the handling is way too squishy for my tastes. In the end I opted for a set of Yokohama AVID ENVigors; they don't have quiet the same razor sharp handling the Michelins had, but they're only about 60% of the price too.

markcincinnati · October 2011

The issue I am having is that I want UHP tires and UHP A/S tires for the 19" wheels that come with the Advance AWD TL -- I had Yoko S.4. tires on my 2009 Audi with 19" and I loved them -- sadly they are not in the Acura Advance size. . . .

shipo · October 2011

You mean like the 245/40 R19 Yokomaha AVID ENVigor available from TireRack.com for $200 per tire?

markcincinnati · October 2011

No the tire was a Yoko Advan S.4. It was an Ultra High Performance All Season tire that handled great, looked great, was very quiet, had decent tread wear, but cost about $250 to $272 per tire at the time I bought them in 2010.

The Audi had 35 series shoes.

shipo · October 2011

My brother-in-law has the Advan S.4.s and they're pretty nice tires.

As I understand it, the Acura TL Advance package uses the tires I listed above. Do you have a different tire?

fedlawman · October 2011

"It was an Ultra High Performance All Season tire that handled great, looked great, was very quiet, had decent tread wear."

That's how I would describe the Pirelli P Zero Nero's I have on my M3. I don't know how much they cost in your size though.

graphicguy · October 2011

ray....I didn't take your post as picking "nits". I bought a 335i. I liked it then, I like it more with the upgrade (which was offered 3 months after I drove it off the dealer's lot).

It's not a 335is....very close, but not quite. For about the same money as a long weekend at a a nice hotel and a couple of nice dinners with the GF (SHHHH...don't let her know that), I got a really nice performance boost to a car I thoroughly enjoyed without the performance boost.

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