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If I found myself in that position,
I would almost certainly have bought BMW's offering.
Enjoy!
- Ray
[im]patiently awaiting [re]delivery....
Those worthless donuts came from the factory on my current car and I had them yanked when there was only 714 miles showing on the odometer. I replaced them with a set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires, and the immediate improvement in the handling and precidtiblity of my car was beyond my greatest expectations.
If you look around on the net you'll find any number of makes and models where Goodyear suckered the manufacturer into using the RS-A; the last time I checked the only positive reviews coming from any car community are remarks from the folks driving the Ford Crown Victoria shod with the RS-A. Not much of a ringing endorsement if you ask me. :P
Long story short, if you like your car now, you'll absolutely love it later, if and when you give it some new shoes. :shades:
I cannot imagine what questionable business tactics Goodyear used to sell so damned many of these horrible tires to the vehicle manufacturers of the world. FWIW, you can add Mazda and Volvo to the list of companies which got suckered into buying the RS-A.
Perhaps it is whatever has to be done to change their rating from H to V??
I guess everyone has their little gripes-me, I would never buy any car with less than a 245 18 tire size. I just like that wide looking stance.
I assume Acura chose the RS-A's for two reasons:
#1 They got a deal from Goodyear, and
#2 Customers didn't care for the Summer Only rubber that Acura had chosen previously.
Too many folks here and on all the other "purpose" sites [non-permissible content removed] and moan about the dearth (and death) of manual transmissions. Yet manufacturers, like Acura, in this case, offer them up and 1-3% of their customers acutally buy them. If I were the manufacturer, I would seriously consider dropping something THAT unpopular unless there was virtually no cost to keep them at least in the brochure (since very few dealers will ever stock one of them.)
Likewise, other good deeds don't go unpunished -- my 2009 Audi A4 with the 19" sport package came with Max Performance Dunlops -- SUMMER only tires. My dealer claims they never stocked the A4 with that sport package because the customers kept the summer tires on year 'round and had drivability issues or tire damage issues, etc. So, no mo' UPH or higher rated tires, typically -- because of customer disatisfaction. And, for the most part it is hard to find a car in this price range that doesn't come with A/S shoes.
The list of other options or combination of options that manufacturers try to bring to the buying public that no one buys keeps on comin' -- so to combat this, the manufacturers bundle as much content as they can (or as they dare) into base, plus and max packages and pretty much disallow a la carte selection.
Those that do allow you to add individual options often require that you first pony up for plus or max packages before they let you add your individual choices of extras. Case in point, to get the 19" wheel/tire sport package on an Audi A4, I first had to agree to buy the A4 configured as a Prestige model. No 19" wheels for the proletariat.
Acura pissed me off -- a bit -- by not allowing me to select the blind spot warning system unless I went with the Advance designation; now that I have the Advance, I am glad, since I also got the 19" wheels (albeit with crappy tires) and ventilated (heated AND cooled) seats along with the BSW system.
Of course every manufacturer here in ELLPS land seems to want you to buy off the lot, rather than order the car and wait for it to be made exactly to your specifications. Hence, we get essentially only two or three "package" choices.
I'd like to see more than one tire choice offered to those willing to wait for their cars to be built; I'd also like to have a greater choice of interior and exterior color choices. Why is it that I couldn't get pearl white paint and the umber leather interior, but I could get crystal black with umber? Who's dumbass rule is that anyway?
The list of incomprehensible rules regarding how we can configure a $45,000+ car never ceases to amaze. I guess there would have to be some rules -- especially since most of these cars are leased (the residual value of a purple car with a white leather interior would be, after all, low, lower, lowest) -- but if the customer is willing to pay for something (not a one off, mind you) that you are already offering -- just not in that combination -- TAKE THE CUSTOMER's MONEY for pity's sake!
Why are back-up sensors NOT a factory option on an Acura TL? My dealer broke the rear bumper (which is, essentially, plastic) trying to install them (since the bumber has to be drilled), then after the bumper was repaired, the bumper had to be specially repainted since I had to be so lucky as to have pearl-effect paint (137 coats or some such thing).
The dealer didn't make any money on THAT transaction -- and even they wonder why such a popular option on this class of car is not standard equipment (within the technology or advance packages) or at least a FACTORY installed option.
Where was I? What time is it? Oh yeah -- who in the wide, wide world of sports decided to put RS-A's on the top o' the line TL?
Drive it like YOU live!
:surprise:
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I wanted the pearl white with the umber and 19" wheels but it was a rear combination. I stalked every dealer in CT and could not find the car.
Finally this dealer in AVON CT located one and trucked it in (5 miles on the odometer).
I was actually the first customer there that Saturday morning.
Sales person brought the car around (it had factory tints on???)- real NICE.
Here was the problem, they did want to budge off MSRP (according to them, this was a rare find), I told them thank you very much and walked- MAN THAT CAR WAS PRETTY.
Then again, I've bought 3 Acuras from the same dealership, same sales person. It's really simple dealing with them and I always get a good deal.
Same way with BMWs. I go to the same dealership, deal with the same salesperson (who's been there for 24 years). If they don't have what I want, they'll do their best to find it (a little bit harder with BMWs, it seems). Again, they always do a skinny deal with no hassle. And, I've also bought multiple BMWs from them.
I've never been able to deal with either the local Infiniti dealer, nor the local Audi dealer. Neither likes to do skinny deals...no matter how easy the deal would be.
However, driving 50-75 miles in either direction of me, and the Infiniti dealers and the Audi dealers are more than happy to make skinny deals.
Go figure.
Mark...you know the dealerships (Audi Connection, Infiniti of Cincinnati) I'm talking about. I don't even bother shopping the local Audi dealership anymore when I'm in the market. They don't have a good selection, and all they want to do is order what you might want (or seek it out from another dealer). Then, they make you wait to get it, all the while offering little in the way of a discount for your trouble.
The Infiniti dealer usually has good stock, but doesn't seem to like to get skinny on a purchase (Audi and Infiniti dealerships owned by the same principal). Maybe their focus is on leasing. But, I'm a purchase customer, not a lease customer.
That diamond white paint on the TL is super expensive. I had to have body work done on my diamond white TL and the shop that did the work said it was a multi-step process, and hard to get right. Hand it to Acura to pull off such a feat on a production car. It is stunning looking, however.
billy...I liked that umber interior. I almost bought one with that color. My Acura dealer mentioned that whenever they have those cars with that interior color, they were hard to sell. So, I figured (rightfully or wrongfully) that the umber might ding it come resell time.
Mine had "stone" interior, which I liked quite a bit, too.
It was harder to judge distance with the back up camera.
I'm certain you have to have BMW's iDrive to get PDC. But, I've never seen an option to add it as a dealer accessory. Call your dealer and ask them.
My little ones would have scuffed up the stone, I am in the act of ordering the rear seat covers probably this week.
Is the TL SH-AWD not comparble, in price, to the BMW?
I got 13% off sticker on a TL SH-AWD Advance -- seems it would be the Acura to compare the 328 X-drive to.
I thought the TSX to be a somewhat tinny car -- as if it is out of its league when compared with the others here. The AWD on the BMW would sell me, though.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Why are you looking at the TSX if AWD is important to you?
You buy the TSX if you like electronic goodies, decent handling, and outstanding reliability.
In the BMW you give up great reliability, and if you keep it longer than the warranty period you are looking at very expensive repairs when they are needed.
In the Acura you give up the German driving feel and vault-like construction.
In my own experience (Audi vs. Acrua), when I had the Audi I found its reliability and service frustrating, but LOVED the driving feel and interior quality. Now with the Acura, I love the reliability and smooth cruising, but really miss the German car quality and driving.
Whichever one I had, I wanted the features that the other one had. :surprise:
In my experience, you CANNOT compare Audi & BMW when it comes to maintenance & repairs. I'm not saying BMWs are perfect, they've had problems with the N54 Twin Turbo
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Acura's have great resale value as well, not far from BMW, so that's almost a nonfactor.
If you are planning on keeping it a long time, I'd bet on the Acura costing you a lot less in both maintenance and repairs.
I've heard a lot more anecdotal evidence that is BAD for BMW reliability in the last 5-7 years than I have for Audi. That being said, if you maintain either properly, you should have a fairly reliable car by any standard (and it helps if you avoid lots of add-on options, as those tend to be the trouble spots). My Audi has been relatively reliable for the 83,000 miles I've driven it since 2006. Perfect no, bothersome, no. If your looking for bulletproof NEVER have to take it back to the dealer, the answer is Acura more often than not.
Seriously? You consider a 328i a "Bad" BMW? Geez, silly me; I'm thinking a 328i (or better yet the 2.0 liter turbo F30 model which is slated to be the 328i replacement) is pretty much the perfect BMW for me. Why? Given that my 2002 530i SP 5-Speed was so close to absolutely perfect for my needs, wants, and desires, and given that the E90 and the F30 are almost spot on in every metric, but with a bit more leg room, a tad more power and slightly less weight, the "Bad" 3-Series couldn't be more "Gooder" for me (unless we’re blessed with something like a 6-Speed manual 325d on this side of the pond).
I agree 100% with shipo's comments. The F30 328i (2.0T) with a 6-speed stick is going to make it very hard to keep my "pay off the TSX in 5 years & drive it until it is 10 years old" promise to myself.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
The transmissions on the TL and MDX have been terrible with some on their second and third transmissions.
I do not know if this applies to the TSX but Acura's two best sellers, the TL and MDX have had problems with the trannies for many years.
Well my '05 TL has 113K bulletproof miles on it to date. Of course anything could happen tomorrow, and one car doesn't make a statistic. But I suspect the problems are only noteworthy because of how reliable the Acuras are. If it were a GM or Chrysler nobody would even notice.
The TL SH-AWD seems like the obvious choice to cross shop an AWD BMW 3 series with, assuming one must cross shop an Acura and a BMW.
But, of the choices offered up in this thread, I would find the Audi 2.0T quattro with the pre-paid maintenance (or perhaps the Volvo S60 T6) to be even more of an apples-to-apples comparison worthy of cross-shopping. Then I look at my recent purchase of a TL, after 29 Audis in a row, and knowing what I cross shopped, well maybe I see the rationale of shopping for both a BMW 3 X-drive and a TL SH-AWD (but never a TSX.)
Having had three AWD BMW's since 1988 (in addition to the 29 Audi's), there is no comparison between the BMW and the TSX in terms of the "feel-behind-the-wheel" -- and, moreover, in winter, four driven wheels are much better than two, even if those two are the fronts.
Although not comparable to the BMW in terms of the "ultimate driving experience" the TL SH-AWD does a better imitation of an Audi A4 2.0T quattro Prestige than any other Japanese car I test drove. In fact the TL SH-AWD Advance (which adds 19" wheels and tires) actually felt pretty competent compared with an 2011 Audi S4 Premium+.
Given the two choices you offered up for us to weigh in on, the TSX is only comparable to the BMW in that they both have four wheels -- the BMW is THAT much better.
:confuse:
Try "acura transmission."
The first two discussions that are listed (in order of most recent activity) are those for the MDX and the TL.
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The tranny problems he is talking about were on the 2001-2003 TL's.
I had to replace mine twice on my 2003 TL Type S.
I like the G37 but would get it in "X" form because of winter traction. If I bought a TL, the front wheel drive would be adequate without having to jump up in price. Don't really care about the extra HP or being able to take hairpins at speed. Your car buying criteria may be different than others looking at the same class of auto....nothing wrong with that. So it is not wrong to cross shop the TSX with the BMW 3, it is completely right for many people.
By the way, I enjoyed your suggestions for improvement over on the 2012 TL thread. Very in depth on the pros and cons.
I could not advise anyone to choose the TSX over the 3 X-drive, the differences are not subtle.
But again, I come from the viewpoint: often wrong, but NEVER uncertain.
Drive it like YOU live, not like I live!!! :shades:
Now, if you're moving up the ladder into a 335i xDrive, that's a different story.
A similar exercise with the 328 X-Drive equipped as close as possible to the TL coughs up similar numbers. Not so with the TSX and the 3 comparo.
Now having finally gotten this data point out, the only merit in considering the TSX is if "low price" is #1 on the criteria list.
LOL! :surprise:
You say the TSX doesn't belong because it is 4cyl, fwd and bloated. Well the A4 is 4cyl, fwd and about exactly the same price in base form and and is almost exactly the same size but actually weighs more than the TSX. Who is bloated? Just because you can get it in quattro means little. For the same price you can get the TSX w/ a V6(not all that great IMO but doable) and blow the doors off the A4.
So I guess if the TSX has to go so should the A4.
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Thanks to all for your thoughts and feedback. Despite my opinions, I respect those that say the TSX doesn't belong here. In my humble opinion, however, I believe it does.
Now, however, I am looking forward to the arrival of my 328iX.