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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    edited November 2011
    I like the quieter tracks best. I love "Today/Tonight," "Candleburn," and "Drawn Out." Great songs with simply stunning sound! A couple of the louder tracks sound a little compressed/congested in places when I play them at volume.

    Mark - I hear some U2 and Coldplay in this album.

    The weather already sucks here and my M is in semi-hibernation now (battery tender all week long).

    That's surprisingly good fuel economy - neither of my cars (Volvo and BMW - both with significantly smaller & less powerful engines) do as well.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    edited November 2011
    fed....mark.....glad you like my recommendations. "Today/Tonight" is one of my favorite tracks, too. About 3 years ago, DTS was selling their own surround music disks on their own WEB site. I suspect they were getting out of the surround music biz in favor of the more popular (and more volume) DTS HD movie blu ray disks. Some interesting titles. Haven't listened to them in a while. Don't know if they're out of print or not. Have to dig them out.

    My MPG is at 50-50 city/interstate. When I'm all interstate, it bumps up to about 28 MPG. All city driving is about 20-21 MPG. Pleased with all of it. Turbo 6 cyl, gobs of torque, no turbo lag, I'm liking it.

    I still have to wonder how the BMW faithful will react to 4 cyl motors in the 2012 vs what has been years and years of 6 cyl offerings. I've read and heard of how "wonderful" the new 4 cyl engines are supposed to be. However, I don't know of anyone who's driven one yet (including the trade rags).
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    I have to admit that the I-6 is intoxicating. I love the turbine-smooth power and sound it makes. It's one of the things I miss the most about my old 325i.

    I'm sure the new 4 will be smooth, but I doubt if it will match the refinement of the I-6. On the other hand, it will no doubt be much smoother and more refined than the I-4 and I-5 I currently own.

    I'm going to have to research those DTS discs...
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Member Posts: 198
    To each his own- I say the opposite, TL over the G.
    Secondly, what do you mean Acura has not moved forward in a few years. Tell me what's so advanced on the G that the TL does not have mechanically and technologically? I am really baffled on this satement.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I took the survey:

    - You should make it clear the purpose of the survey in your post
    - There's an issue where you rank features 1-5 in importance, but there are only two features to rank.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    edited November 2011
    Alan Parsons and Steely Dan in/on DTS -- great discs.

    However, I've noticed that some of the "remastered" discs that are just normal CD's sound great on the TL's PLII mode -- it almost makes me understand why DTS, DVD-A and SACD never really caught on: Good Very good is the enemy of great, once again. :surprise:
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I wanted (and still do) an Infiniti product. I love my wife's '11 FX35 Premium (in black with the Java interior) -- but, I didn't want to have 2 of the same thing and I absolutely had to have blind spot indication (coming from my '09 Audi A4 Prestige where it was standard equipment.) The only Infiniti that I could get that had BSI was the M and I had to order an M with BOTH Premium and Technology packages to get the BSI (and the tech package seemed to contain expensive automatic cruise control hardware and software that I did not see -- at this time anyway -- the value in.) I also shopped for a new A6, but the lease rates and the discounts offered were breathtaking (and not in a good way)!

    So, I test drove the G37X with EVERYTHING on it and found it to be great fun to drive and with acceptable levels of sport and lux -- and the lease prices were fantastic. Yet, the G could not be had with BSI -- and it seems (and is) a narrow vehicle, both in the interior width and the track. The G has a track of 60.2" and the TL is 63.8" -- you can feel the difference; and to me the difference made the TL feel more stable and nimble (almost like my outgoing 2009 A4.)

    I probably would have gone with the G, despite the above, had it offered BSI.

    Another contender was the Volvo T6 which could be had with BSI and felt even quicker with its "right now" torque, thanks to the turbo.

    As someone said, to each his/her own -- the G just seemed cramped inside and somehow, compared to what I was used to, made me feel like I was a bug when I took it out on the Interstate (full of semi's).

    Drive it like you live. :shades:
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Member Posts: 198
    I am with you- it was on my short list.
    I think I am in pretty good shape 6' 1" +/- 218 lbs, I body build 4 times per week for 45 mins. The car just felt like my 99 Mazda Millennia in terms of space.
  • poodog13poodog13 Member Posts: 320
    This is the first time I've ever seen "Blind Spot Indicator" as a MUST HAVE feature. I've never had it, but I've also never missed it. Have managed without it for 18 years of driving thus far, so I'm pretty sure I can do without from here on out.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    edited November 2011
    What once were vices are now virtues. . . .

    I never had TPMS until 2005 -- now, it too, is a must have (and it is now mandatory, so no longer a possible disqualifier.)

    Got electronic stability control (branded ESP) in 2001, after thinking "why would I need that, I've got ABS?" -- then, after having it just one year, it became a must have, too (I understand it too will be no longer an option, this MY.)

    Thought a back-up camera AND parktronic (aka backup sensors) were redundant -- now, after seeing the around view monitor PLUS front and rear parktronic (on my wife's Infiniti), I can hardly imagine not having AT LEAST a back-up camera and parktronic. Actually, I wish I had front and rear parktronic like my wife's 2005 and 2008 BMWs had on them.

    Torque vectoring? Yep, it is rapidly overtaking both plain ol' Quattro and ATTESA as THE drive-line must have.

    6,7,8 and more speed transmissions -- you guessed it: Must have.

    Tires that auto-correct for under (or over) inflation: #1 Coming soon; #2 Must have (think of the billions of dollars of fuel alone this tech will save.)

    Auto shut off and restart after full stop: ditto.

    Heated AND Cooled (ventilated) seats: need you even ask?

    In-car communications systems that when activated automatically turn down ventilation fans to assure the voice command systems "hear" the commands you give with nearly zero errors? Ya think?

    ABS PLUS brake assist? You bet.

    Electrochromic mirrors? Certainly damn near vital. . . .

    And the beat goes on. :surprise:
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    The Acura has been in it's current form since 2009, like the G37 has been around for a few years.

    The interior of the Acura is busy in my opinion, made me feel like a cockpit. On the other hand, the interior of a G with the accents is soothing.

    I feel lost in the Acura, I have a nice cozy feeling in the G.

    SH-AWD makes the Acura perform as well as the rest of the ELLPSs, over the FWD, as it is a nose heavy car, which is why I say it really hasn't moved forward.

    Car buying is so subjective, to each their own.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I can live without TPMS, my wifes 5 year car has it, but I can live without it.

    You forgot HID headlights.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Auto shut off and restart after full stop: ditto.

    I maybe ol'school regarding this...But I recall countless statements regarding the life of engines and how they could run in perpetuity...if it were not for the "starting"; which is where all the wear occurs. I've also read that they've engineered for this and it doesn't cause additional wear (but I just don't believe it)

    It's like having sensors in the car that would monitor your blinking...so it could turn off your headlights for that brief moment to save some precious energy...maybe my example is a bit too extreme :)

    but i'll pass on both :shades:
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Didn't forget them at all . . . just thought my [subjective] point had been made.

    Hell, I grew up where only rich people's cars had A/C and power windows. My dad got a new Plymouth in 1969 with power steering -- but no power brakes. And even though it was the top of the line Plymouth Satellite with a 318 V8 (the 383 and Hemi were reserved for the Road Runner and the 440 was for the GTX), it didn't have factory air -- so my dad had the dealer install aftermarket A/C which meant the front bench seat could only seat two instead of three because of the "device" (the blowing unit) that was installed that stuck way out into the passenger area.

    The first time I got a car with power steering, brakes AND windows, I knew I had become a member of "the club." That car was a 1976 Chrysler Cordoba with fine Corithian Leather (how many remember that reference?)

    It still had an AM only radio though, but with a speaker in the rear deck it was "upscale" befitting someone of my stature (in "the club," of course.)

    And, man o' man, when I got a car that had a rear window defroster (which was a slit in the rear deck through which air was blown by a motor located in the trunk), well, peel me a grape, Mabel.

    Power door locks engendered a similar reaction when I got a 4-door car with FRONT only power door locks (and, as I recall, FRONT only power windows, too.) The dome light only came on when you opened a FRONT door, on this car -- probably saved $.50 per door to omit the rear on/off switch.

    When I got an Audi with an infra-red remote (who's dumbass idea was THAT, anyway? -- infra-red, geesh) -- I had another grape peeling moment as well.

    These days its power everything on virtually every car -- and even if you didn't want these assists, well, it would be virtually impossible to NOT have them.

    My 1978 Audi 5000 was my first car with heated seats -- I used to take people for rides in the car and secretly turn on the seat heaters. . .why? Because back then heated seats were rare (and novel.)

    I also didn't forget articulating headlights, nor did I forget bi-xenons (which the Acura TL lacks, strangely.)

    Memories. . .memories. . . . :blush:
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    You may be right about your longevity concern -- I really don't know. What I have read, however, is that the full stop, engine shut off, then engine restart when "the light changes" will save countless gallons of fuel once this tech is widespread.

    Perhaps there is little to be concerned with about the engine -- I would, however, wonder if the constant restarting of the engine would not be hard on the starter MOTOR?

    In any case, I assume this auto shut off will be placed in widespread use as we strive to save every drop of fuel we can by almost any and every means even remotely possible.

    Somewhere I read that there is a patent on a technology that "warms up" the transmission when the car is started COLD; this warm transmission apparently yields a bit more MPG's, and, over the life of the car, this "bit more" adds up. It is especially interesting when one extrapolates this to millions of cars and finds that the annual savings ends up being a governmental sum of money and fuel saved (so they say.)

    Fuel saving tires have been in production and use for years (you can tell I watch too much TV) -- even though the savings per car are only a few drops of fuel annually (but again when extrapolated to millions of cars, these drops become a big deal and big bucks.)

    Mostly (which is NOT the same as entirely) I am for virtually all new technolgies and also for the upgrading of "older" technologies to make them "better" (and greener, too, if possible). When a new technology is found to be wasteful, harmful or just plain inappropriate though, I am all for scrapping it, beginning a new project or exploring a new idea and moving forward. :surprise:
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I remember when my father had an Audi 5000 and Audi 4000 side by side in the garage. After the 4000 he got a Legend. Yep, memories.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Regarding the whole Start/Stop thing while sitting stopped at a light or some such, I don't think it will affect engine longevity at all. Why? Because the bulk of engine wear comes when cold starting an engine where the lubricant has had a considerable amount of time to drain down into the sump; a couple of minutes at a light just isn't all that long in the grand scheme of things.

    Other fuel economy related thoughts:

    I find the concentration on things like transmission oil temperatures for improving fuel economy curious, and if I might be so bold, highly questionable. From my perspective, for a relatively modest investment (compared to the potential gain), it makes sense to me to harvest the latent heat radiating off the exhaust system to power the various subsystems of the vehicle. I'm thinking there is many-many times the necessary power lost in the form of radiated heat to drive the electricals, the power assist pumps, the A/C compressor, and even the valve train (electrically or hydraulically).

    Remove the mechanical load of all of those components from the engine and fuel economy should easily see a double-digit percentage gain. The only company which has announced such a research project is BMW; hopefully it will become a reality sooner than later.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    I know there was quite a stir when the Hyundai Genesis came out. Don't know if it fits in this discussion, but I actually had test driven one when they first came out. Nice "first" effort at a lux car by Hyundai (they really should change their name for cars sold in the U.S.).

    Well, I got my first chance to drive one for an extensive period of time. It was a rental (Enterprise). It was the 6 cyl model with what looked like the middle of the options package (everything but Nav).

    First, it's a BIG car.

    It drove fine....actually, it drove pretty good. I was in Milwaukee (OshKosh) WI with it when it snowed for the first time this Fall. It handled the snow and slush just fine.

    The suspension that everyone bitched about isn't bad...at least not as bad as I had read about here at Edmunds. Yes, there are some road surfaces that cause an unrefined chassis feeling, but for the most part, it was fine....similar to a Mercedes E, without the unrefined part.

    There were some things where hitting their price point caused some short cuts. If that's real wood in the cabin, the trees they used must have been very sick. The seats are....well....they're wide....certainly not very comfortable (and on the opposite end of the seats you'd find in the TL SH AWD or my 335i....both are great). The lighting is superb in the cabin.

    They spend the money on the drivetrain, you can tell. The engine is responsive and sounds uber refined. The transmission shifts seamlessly and is ready to kick down when needed.

    All the switches feel richer than they should, and operate with a smoothness that was unexpected.

    All-in-all a nice first effort. Came close to mimicking the A6, Mercedes E, Lexus LS, (not really in the same category as a BMW 5 from both a dynamic and performance category). Not quite hit the nail on the head, but relatively close for a lot less money.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Infiniti is getting left behind? Your comments again have no basis- look at the reviews and sales numbers- hello. What do I think? Well I think you are not a good car picker and if you worked at a brokerage like you say I would not let you pick a stock either. You bot a Mazda milleneum, nuf said. Good luck with the next car, made you should wait I hear Cadillac bringing back the cimarron.
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Member Posts: 198
    edited November 2011
    Here we go again- reviews, sales numbers, is there anything else you base your decisions on?
    Of course they are getting left behind- always playin catch up to BMW.
    I pick based on value not like the masses (including yourself) who chases the trend. And by the way, whats wrong with the Millennia?
    Back in 2000 that car had all the goodies any other entry luxury car had to offer, leather, 17" wheels, in dash 6 disc palyer, heated seats, fog lamps etc etc- it just did not have the luxury name that you tend to chase after.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    First off attacking what a person drives is the first sign of a weak debater.

    The Mileneum at the time was a great car, it was to have been part of the Upper Division that mazda was going introduce (Think Acrua, Infiniti and Lexus) however Mazda has $$ problems so the 929 and Mileneum never got the support from Mazda. Which is too bad since the triple rotor Cosmos would have came here to the states.

    The G25 is a great car however it needs more HP, since the entry level 3 series makes more HP then G25. The G37 is no costing very close to that of the 335i when it comes to a few thousand dollars which adds only $10-30/m to payments why get the G37? The engine in the G37 isn't as smooth as the G35 was, or as smooth as the BMW. With the sport package the 3 series is a better handler.

    BUT it all depends on what the buyer wants, Would I like a 400hp 3 series, YES, but I'm not willing to pay entry fee into the world of the M3. Cars are so subjective that its impossible to say what is better and what is worse.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I don't base my purchase decisions on reviews or sales number, but I use them to inject a sense of reality into some of these conversations. Of course, Infiniti, Acura, Cadillac is playing catch-up to BMW in one sense.

    On the other hand each of them has their own strong characteristics that would make them a compelling purchase for some lucky buyer.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Well I think you are not a good car picker and if you worked at a brokerage like you say I would not let you pick a stock either. You bot a Mazda milleneum, nuf said.

    Strongly opinionated, aren't we? Apparently some people are ALWAYS right and couldn't possibly consider other opinions. Of course we saw that re: TSX. ;)
  • ctlctl Member Posts: 129
    These are all good cars, and different people have different opinions and tastes, so there isn't really right or wrong here. However, to be fair, I think it was billyperksii that thrown the first stone? a cheap shot at infiniti :)
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Wait....let me get my popcorn. This should be a good show! :shades:
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    edited November 2011
    Billy,

    There is a reason why Mazda no longer makes the car- no one bought it - pretty simple so yes i can bring sales numbers and professional reviews into a conversation - mainly because they are fact. I mean for you to have an option is fine but it's your opinion not the majority - you drove the last sudo lux car built by Mazda -that no longer exists . Infiniti has a car that saved the brand - even with its " harsh engine." For 40k it's a great car loaded. Look at flight nurse she couldn't swing the extra 10-30 bux a month and is stuck in the 328 when she wanted the 335 she keeps writting about. Btw I love when people talk about monthly payment verse actual cost - for me 10k is a significant number if your buying a car. If I was in that situation I would have test drove a g37xs just to actually see how it road.
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Member Posts: 198
    edited November 2011
    Sweeny, I love you man but we are not always on the same page when it comes to logic and reasoning- aka-common sense.
    If I inderstand you correctly, you are saying that if a professional sates an opinion in their article it is a fact?- really.
    So lets take for example, Mr.X states that the Mercedes E63 styling is a little on the Edgy side-is that a fact or his opinion?
    Better yet if Mr.Y states in his article that the G37X ride is harsh, tiresome and downright not suitable for the human body is that a fact or an opinion?- let me take a guess-its a FACT because the professional said so!!!!!
    Bottom line, I value my own.
    Secondly, the Millennia was a great car, I chose it over the I35, I could not live with that rear I BEAM that came with the I35-no love lost.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    You may be correct that the Mazda was a great car. I think the point that was being made was that it was not a commercial success.

    My Mazda "great car" was an Audi allroad (2003) -- station wagons are apparently "hip and cool" (who uses that anymore?), CUV's have replaced SUV's somewhat because they are more car-like. The allroad was part station wagon (the cool part?), great CAR-LIKE attributes and it could go light off-roading.

    It failed (in the US at least).

    It is often a matter of showing the mfgr the money.

    This is my concern about Acura. It seems they have sliding sales and somewhat lackluster products. Their next gen refresh is critical. Show them the money!

    Drive it like you live. :surprise:
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Dude, not all nurses are female, so before placing gender to a name, get your facts.

    I never stated I wanted a 335i, I stated I would have gone for the M3, however in May its my partners turn for a BMW and we decided he would get a 535i, so I "settled" for the 328i because of this.

    Why do I need 4WD car in Phoenix, AZ? Granted it snowed here in Phoenix 3 years ago, but it melted when it hit the ground. I drove the G37S, and the engine isn't as smooth as the in-line 6 of the BMW, the transmission isn't as good as the one in the BMW, the BMW I bought handles better then the G37S, also Infiniti wasn't willing to deal on the car. The 328i I bought (not leased) was a great bargain, and the resale value of this BMW is higher then the G37S.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Why do I need 4WD car in Phoenix, AZ? Granted it snowed here in Phoenix 3 years ago, but it melted when it hit the ground."

    I say roughly the same thing here in New Hampshire, "Why do I need an AWD car here in New England? Granted we had over one-hundred inches of snow last winter, but the plows get on it quickly."

    From my perspective, a 328i shod with winter tires will be safer than a 328xi with the factory all-season tires when driven in slippery conditions. :shades:
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    In response - nurse I ment no disrespect by her vs him. Again I don't need the backstory on awd and Arizona my comment was about the actual car not the sub model. You also are quick to respond right after billy- I mean he's got this. . but you do write about the 335 alot thou you have to admit. The 3 year residuals are 49 and 48% with the BMW a touch better- wonder if this will change with the new BMW 3 out soon. My point in all of this is you have to put price in the conversation when talking about these cars- a car with a higher price should be better, right?
    And for billy ... What logic and or common sense don't you get? I have stated sales numbers and published articles from professional car drivers. you should know this given your Investment banking background...homework before you buy something - that being said it does come down to taste when buying a car. You went "long" a Mazda - others did not- all about taste. Acura has been walking the milleneum tightrope for 5 years now. I'm "short" Acura "long" Infiniti and right now I'm in the black and am very comfortable with the trade right now.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    FWIW, I would choose the 328i over any version of the G37 in a heartbeat.

    Who cares about horsepower? Revving a BMW I-6 to redline and shifting that sweet 6MT is such a sublime experience.

    I don't care how long it takes to get there, I just want to enjoy the trip.
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Member Posts: 198
    edited November 2011
    Wow- you are in the black on a depreciable asset or maybe you meant- you went long on the actual Nissan stock and shorted Honda?
    Right- Day Trader?
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Unlike you guys in AZ where it never snows or you guys in NH where the plows are on it like flies on fruit, in the great garden state I might actually have to drive on 10 or more inches of the stuff.

    Subaru with all seasons no problem, g37 not holding my breath.

    Ive already gone the rwd and snows route, not doing that again.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Where I live in CT (Stamford, extremely southwestern CT) they don't plow the roads as well as they do in Westchester County, NY where I used to live. They also don't salt the roads close to my home due to the fact that many have well water. Last winter was my 1st "New England" winter & I know it was worse than usual. I've got a 31 mile commute to work & have to be there to open up at 7:30 AM (my name's on the door, can't be late). The 1st 10 miles that I'm in CT before I hit the NY border were treacherous. I'm not saying it can't be ordered, but pretty much every 3,5,&,7 here are AWD. You'd have an easier time finding a stick shift on a dealer's lot than a RWD BMW. Every single MB (not SL & SLK) has 4Matic. I've seen a total of 3 LEXUS IS w/O AWD.

    I think every car (AWD or not) should have snow tires. Did I ever get stuck in my '01 Prelude with snow tires? No. Once last year, I had to drive NORTH (10 miles) into a snowstorm because the southbound entrance ramp had a foot of snow that hadn't been plowed yet.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    edited November 2011
    good response- exactly what a person who works in IB and is waiting on his bonus would say. You should put the order in now for the E55 because im sure your going to get paid "size." but please put me on your do-not-call list at the firm you work for- Im sure there is alot of benjamins to be made on biotech, im not interested at this time>
  • biker4biker4 Member Posts: 746
    edited November 2011
    "Who cares about horsepower? Revving a BMW I-6 to redline and shifting that sweet 6MT is such a sublime experience.
    For only a few more months - the I6 is gone from the 328 series next year. :shades:
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Yeah, the only thing about the new car that is disappointing. But it was inevitable.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    No sweet regarding gender, I use it to my advantage, when I went to the LA BWM track days at Willow Spring raceway, some of the members were expecting a female, however when I drove up in my E90 with the ZHP packaged car the look was classic. Some people assumed since I was a nurse, I had to be a female.

    When it comes to lease prices, the leases are better on the BMW then G37 and usually by a great deal.

    Regarding your comment about if its more it has to be better, if the sum of all the parts are better, then yes its better. This is why BMW has been picked over the G series car over and over. The BMW pedals are set up for heal and toe, the transmission is smoother, the engine is smooth, the brakes work better. I haven't taken my 3 series on the track, this will change in 2 weeks, I'll be able to tell you more than.

    Regarding the new turbo 4 in the 3 series, I was able to drive a new Z4 with the engine in it, have to say, the power build up is better then the I6, its harsher then the I6 but the Z4 is faster with the I4. So I suspect the new 3 series will be faster too.With a few bolt on's the new turbo 4 should be able to make 300HP with out breaking a sweat.

    I wonder when Infiniti will up the HP on the G25, to me that is what is hurting the car...
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    edited November 2011
    "When it comes to lease prices, the leases are better on the BMW then G37 and usually by a great deal. " see below, these are from both infiniti and bmw websites-- i did some calculations..

    2012 infiniti G37
    $379 /month Lease for 39 months
    $2,499 initial payment (includes first month)
    2012 G37 Sedan Journey RWD with Premium Package - msrp 41k
    comes out to 433 a month all in if you include initial payment

    2011 BMW 328 msrp 38k- 36mth lease
    • $349 First months payment
    • $2,500 Down payment
    • $0 Security Deposit
    • $725 Acquisition fee
    • $3,574 Cash due at signing
    verse 438 a month all in for the bmw- plus you have to pay
    At lease end, lessee will be liable for disposition fee ($350.00)

    love the passion for the bmw- but your great deal comment is incorrect- Infact with the infiniti your getting an more expensive car thats one model year newer for less per month if my math is correct.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Gotta pay for G37 maintenance

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    edited November 2011
    Yep - 4 or 5 oil changes and a couple of tire rotations - or about 100 bux less in maintence then the BMW return lease fee, next. Let's be a little creative people- also noticed the S60 now is part of the group which is a great add, still can't believe we have 2 acuras on the board Thou
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    Honestly, if someone is cross-shopping the two, intending to lease, there's not enough difference in price for PRICE to be the deciding factor. Plenty of people do like the BMW included maintenance. I think a few oil changes and tire rotations is a bit of an underestimate - it'll probably chew through brake pads (and rotors) as well.

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  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    If anyone put's down that kind of money for lease then they do not deserve to lease a car. Those leader ad's are just that, leader ad's. When I bought my BMW I could have signed and driven away with nothing out of pocket ZERO and payments of $599/m.

    So if people are shopping and price is a factor then they can't afford either car.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    So if people are shopping and price is a factor then they can't afford either car.

    Price is always a factor to one degree or another. If you mean that $20 or $30 bucks a month or so shouldn't be a factor when buying cars like those discussed here then maybe I could understand where you're coming from. But what you said....ridiculous.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    I disagree, there are two types of people who buy luxury cars, one who can afford it and the other are ones who think they can afford it. If people put down $4K on a lease to buy down the payment, these are the people who can not afford it. Then they shouldn't lease one. It's pretty simple... this is how America got into problem it is in....
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    So many people DO NOT understand leasing. It is just an alternate method of financing (thank you kyfdx), not a cheap way of getting into a more expensive vehicle.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • wirelesswireless Member Posts: 47
    I think mostly it is a way for people to get into an expensive car they couldn't otherwise afford. But also it's a way to get a new car more often. Either way, I think it's mostly become popular due to the car companies pushing it. They can put a car out there for two years or so and take it back and resell and make a good profit; much more so than they can on new cars. Used it where the money is now for car salesman.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Interesting, if people lease car's the correct way, with no money out of pocket the price difference is more then $20-30/m. However if someone lease's the cheap way by using their own money to buy down the monthly payment then yes the price difference is $20-30/m.

    When you are paying $500/m for a car it is nice to have maintenance included.
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Leader ads? The information I posted is from each manufactures "special offers" web page. Im a little lost with your comments. Deserve to lease a car? theBorrow Rates are very low and used car prices (rresidual Val) made leasing avail for the masses. Imagine if you had to go to the dealership with a check for the car in full - your BMW 328 would be as common as a Mazda mulenium.
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